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Diet Pills and all that that implies
Replies
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
Who's they? :huh:
Gather the populations of BB.com and MFP, stand in the middle and throw a boomerang. I guarantee you hit 20-30.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
Who's they? :huh:
Gather the populations of BB.com and MFP, stand in the middle and throw a boomerang. I guarantee you hit 20-30.
Oh people always have excuses for crap. Hard work is definitely something a lot are allergic to.1 -
I can understand the appeal and temporary utility of appetite suppressants. Especially at the beginning of a diet when you're adjusting to not eating as much. I've not used any other than caffeine in regular coffee/tea/soda, which doesn't seem to affect me much at all except for the volume of liquid being some help.
I can't imagine taking any kind of health risk to take a suppressant that works better for me. If I want to suppress hunger that badly, I'll keep an open can of cat food under my nose. I wouldn't want to even think about eating.
Most other diet pills are either placebos or have potentially dangerous side effects. No thanks.1 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
Who's they? :huh:
The people that see an impressive physique and bitterly mumble "steroids" as if it didn't take hard work. Usually it's because they're small, soft, sometimes both and like to play that as the trump card as to why.
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I have finally given in and asked my doctor for help. I have been a binge eater most of my life, and food is my go-to drug to numb myself to life. No. I am not proud of where I am. I am ashamed. I have been grounded by my physical therapist from walking or any sort of impact exercise due to an Achilles tendon I keep reinjuring. I am pretty convinced if I werent lugging around that extra 150 pounds it might not be as much of an issue. Vyvanse is the med she put me on to try out. For the first time in my life I'm free from wanting to eat. I wish I could explain how surreal that is. When I am hungry and want to eat, I have the power to take my time and make better choices and the ability to stop and throw food away instead of cleaning my plate. I was the angriest person I know when the fda decided to call obesity a disease. NO addiction is a disease, it's a choice that our bodies or brains have become addicted to. BUT. That being said. It's opened the door for the help I'm in need of today. In the meantime... Yes, I can CHOOSE to overeat, but listening to my body and choosing not to is a habit I am now learning. The hope is, one day, when I stop the drug I'll have the new habit of listening to my body instead of the craving instilled in me so deeply I'll be in a better position to help myself!3
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I wouldn't take them. And they probably have bad side effects.0
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MissJeans37 wrote: »I have finally given in and asked my doctor for help. I have been a binge eater most of my life, and food is my go-to drug to numb myself to life. No. I am not proud of where I am. I am ashamed. I have been grounded by my physical therapist from walking or any sort of impact exercise due to an Achilles tendon I keep reinjuring. I am pretty convinced if I werent lugging around that extra 150 pounds it might not be as much of an issue. Vyvanse is the med she put me on to try out. For the first time in my life I'm free from wanting to eat. I wish I could explain how surreal that is. When I am hungry and want to eat, I have the power to take my time and make better choices and the ability to stop and throw food away instead of cleaning my plate. I was the angriest person I know when the fda decided to call obesity a disease. NO addiction is a disease, it's a choice that our bodies or brains have become addicted to. BUT. That being said. It's opened the door for the help I'm in need of today. In the meantime... Yes, I can CHOOSE to overeat, but listening to my body and choosing not to is a habit I am now learning. The hope is, one day, when I stop the drug I'll have the new habit of listening to my body instead of the craving instilled in me so deeply I'll be in a better position to help myself!
Sounds about like Suboxone for breaking opiate addiction...and replacing it with another dependancy3 -
If diet pills worked, no one would be overweight. Prescription pills may be able to curb your appetite, but it comes back when you stop taking them.
It's not a mental disorder.......the weight will come back if you return to the previous behaviors that made you overweight.
I don't like any medication but to say the weight comes back if you stop taking medication is ridiculous.
I didn't say the weight comes back. I said your appetite comes back. Prescription diet pills don't make you lose weight, they curb your appetite. When you stop taking them, your appetite comes back, at least that's my understanding.4 -
If diet pills worked, no one would be overweight. Prescription pills may be able to curb your appetite, but it comes back when you stop taking them.
It's not a mental disorder.......the weight will come back if you return to the previous behaviors that made you overweight.
I don't like any medication but to say the weight comes back if you stop taking medication is ridiculous.
I didn't say the weight comes back. I said your appetite comes back. Prescription diet pills don't make you lose weight, they curb your appetite. When you stop taking them, your appetite comes back, at least that's my understanding.
And once the appetite comes back, the vast majority of the people who take the suppressants haven't learned how to control/curb/etc. their eating habits and resume the same patterns of eating that they had before taking the pills and THEN the weight comes back (usually with a few extra pounds to boot).1 -
I use ec fat burners as well. They give me energy for my workouts and help lean me out. I like them and dont plan to stop using them periodically.3
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I've thought about this a lot recently. I see so much judgment directed at the way people choose to lose weight. People who elect to lose weight without the use of diet pills (or surgery for that matter) are characterized as losing weight the "hard" way, while those who elect to use those methods are taking the "easy" way. The subtext is that losing weight the "easy" way implies a person is lazy or maybe a cheat. I don't see it that way. Provided a person is losing weight responsibly (either under a doctor's care or following generally accepted guidelines) I don't see that one way is inherently superior to the other in terms of character strength.
As far as not being able to maintain once the weight is lost due to not learning how to eat normally, well, how many people (including me) using any method of weight loss bounce back up to our previous weight because we go back to our old eating habits. These boards are full of people (again including me) who are back for the nth time because they didn't learn to eat to maintain at a lower weight. I don't think that problem is specific to the use of diet pills.3 -
I tried diet pills when I was a teen. I had a bad immune response. So, I would just be cautious and aware of side effects. And some people are more sensitive to side effects. I also have hypersensitivity to caffeine. But, my neurologist said I have hypersensitivity to meds. Especially since I was medically injured. I'm just very careful now with things that are not medically necessary for myself. Others may have a different experience.1
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I used to take Phentermine and I now say it's wayyyy better to train your body to lose weight without it. Everyone I knew who took it gained a ton more weight anytime they stopped taking it.0
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
I'm natty for my health's sake. Not for any kind of excuse, thanks.
Are you seriously implying that all natties have bad physiques and that they use "natty" as an excuse? Give me a break. Most of the guys I know who advertise their nattiness are bragging, "I didn't even need to ride the bike to look this awesome."7 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
Who's they? :huh:
The people that see an impressive physique and bitterly mumble "steroids" as if it didn't take hard work. Usually it's because they're small, soft, sometimes both and like to play that as the trump card as to why.
Well...
"Fat-free mass did not change significantly in the group assigned to placebo but no exercise (Table 4 and Figure 1). The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass, and those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg. The increase in the testosterone-plus-exercise group was substantially greater (averaging 6.1 kg). The percentage of body fat did not change significantly in any group (data not shown)."
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#t=article5 -
stevencloser wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
Who's they? :huh:
The people that see an impressive physique and bitterly mumble "steroids" as if it didn't take hard work. Usually it's because they're small, soft, sometimes both and like to play that as the trump card as to why.
Well...
"Fat-free mass did not change significantly in the group assigned to placebo but no exercise (Table 4 and Figure 1). The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass, and those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg. The increase in the testosterone-plus-exercise group was substantially greater (averaging 6.1 kg). The percentage of body fat did not change significantly in any group (data not shown)."
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#t=article
In other words, dosing testosterone while sitting on your bum all day can lead to better gains than lifting without it.2 -
I'm not sure I'd call everyone on them lazy. I was young and ignorant once and I went to a weight loss clinic (where I thought I'd get counseling on nutrition/exercise/etc....but didn't) and was given a prescription for them. I stopped taking them because of heart palpitations. Looking back I shake my head at the fact that I thought I needed them. Hey, a doctor gave them to me and they know best, right? Granted that was years and years ago and information is much more readily available on nutrition and tools like MFP are everywhere to help people lose weight.0
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Carlos_421 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
I'm natty for my health's sake. Not for any kind of excuse, thanks.
Are you seriously implying that all natties have bad physiques and that they use "natty" as an excuse? Give me a break. Most of the guys I know who advertise their nattiness are bragging, "I didn't even need to ride the bike to look this awesome."
Not at all. My point was that every time in recent history that someone has accomplished something extraordinary in the performance department, we immediately see chimings of "dat celltech bro". While it's a valid point, it completely ignores the fact that people (athletes in particular) have been using every means available to them to get an edge, since time immemorial.
Once upon a time, caffeine and ephedra would have been viewed the same way Dbol is today, assuming people back then had the internet and a prescription pad for excuses for why they put up second place performances.0 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
I'm natty for my health's sake. Not for any kind of excuse, thanks.
Are you seriously implying that all natties have bad physiques and that they use "natty" as an excuse? Give me a break. Most of the guys I know who advertise their nattiness are bragging, "I didn't even need to ride the bike to look this awesome."
Not at all. My point was that every time in recent history that someone has accomplished something extraordinary in the performance department, we immediately see chimings of "dat celltech bro". While it's a valid point, it completely ignores the fact that people (athletes in particular) have been using every means available to them to get an edge, since time immemorial.
Once upon a time, caffeine and ephedra would have been viewed the same way Dbol is today, assuming people back then had the internet and a prescription pad for excuses for why they put up second place performances.
I was really just referring to fascha's insinuation that only people with pitiful physiques promote being natty.
And yeah, lots of people are too quick to call anyone bigger than them a juicer (I probably give genetic potential more credit than your average bb.com'er).
And I get that competitors have always sought out every advantage they can get. I would argue though, that once that advantage is gained by illegal/prohibited means, it's no longer a competitive advantage. It's an unfair advantage.
ETA: if someone wants to disregard the law in order to get as big/strong as they possibly can, it's no hair off my back. However, I don't think they should compete professionally in any kind of sport because I don't think the competition should have to practice the same illegal/unsafe methods in order to have a chance.
And I'm not saying that guys like Arnold aren't impressive. But I will say that I am less impressed than I was before I knew he juiced.4 -
Unfortunately, there will never be a "magic pill". The caffeine and other stimulants do almost nothing for metabolism and yet has caused deaths. One issue is how many assume that metabolism is the same as energy.
The only possible benefit is helping hunger and yet the hunger part could simply be placebo.
If I give everyone a sugar pill and promise it will help you lose weight and it will take away all cravings and hunger, it will work in about 1/2 of them.
The risks are far greater than any possible benefits.
Don't waste your money or risk your health.0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »Carlos_421 wrote: »Gallowmere1984 wrote: »I take ephedrine and caffeine when cutting as it helps with energy and appetite control. I challenge anyone to tell me I'm taking the easy way out, I track everything I eat and I still have to be in a deficit lol it's a tool, like anything else. I don't have a problem with performance enhancing drugs either tbh. If you can drink and smoke I think if you'd like to add extra hormones to your body you should have autonomy over that.
Preaching to the choir here mate. I'm all for SARMS, Clen, Dbol, DMAA, Ephedera, etc. I'd posit the argument that those who don't enhance are looking for excuses to make for why they suck at any given thing.
Agreed. They hold onto that natty card as the ultimate excuse for a *kitten* physique as if enhancing just means you get to sit on your *kitten* and make gains LOL peasants
I'm natty for my health's sake. Not for any kind of excuse, thanks.
Are you seriously implying that all natties have bad physiques and that they use "natty" as an excuse? Give me a break. Most of the guys I know who advertise their nattiness are bragging, "I didn't even need to ride the bike to look this awesome."
Not at all. My point was that every time in recent history that someone has accomplished something extraordinary in the performance department, we immediately see chimings of "dat celltech bro". While it's a valid point, it completely ignores the fact that people (athletes in particular) have been using every means available to them to get an edge, since time immemorial.
Once upon a time, caffeine and ephedra would have been viewed the same way Dbol is today, assuming people back then had the internet and a prescription pad for excuses for why they put up second place performances.
I was really just referring to fascha's insinuation that only people with pitiful physiques promote being natty.
And yeah, lots of people are too quick to call anyone bigger than them a juicer (I probably give genetic potential more credit than your average bb.com'er).
And I get that competitors have always sought out every advantage they can get. I would argue though, that once that advantage is gained by illegal/prohibited means, it's no longer a competitive advantage. It's an unfair advantage.
ETA: if someone wants to disregard the law in order to get as big/strong as they possibly can, it's no hair off my back. However, I don't think they should compete professionally in any kind of sport because I don't think the competition should have to practice the same illegal/unsafe methods in order to have a chance.
And I'm not saying that guys like Arnold aren't impressive. But I will say that I am less impressed than I was before I knew he juiced.
Fair enough. Your train of thought would be synonymous with an MFPer showing up one day, eating 4000 kcals per day, and losing 3 lbs. per week, winning a contest, then revealing that they are a meth user.
That being said, there are plenty of legal PHs that work, though none qualify as "natty" and will give you manboobs, bacne, and liver problems if not cycled properly. I'd say that my biggest issue with all of it is the hypocrisy required by the majority to condemn one that's illegal, being meh on one that's legal, but being perfectly fine with simulants and the like. At least your view is more consistent.0 -
For anyone looking to increase energy, I recommend asking your doctor about getting B12 shots. I get one monthly (can be injected at home, if comfortable doing it yourself) and it helps give that extra boost.
I also think there is a benefit to Alli. Not so much for long-term weight loss, but it's been great for conditioning my behavior toward positive habits. When I get a craving for pizza or fast food, remembering the awful stomachache and other side effect that would result helps me resist.1 -
amanda_qed wrote: »For anyone looking to increase energy, I recommend asking your doctor about getting B12 shots. I get one monthly (can be injected at home, if comfortable doing it yourself) and it helps give that extra boost.
I also think there is a benefit to Alli. Not so much for long-term weight loss, but it's been great for conditioning my behavior toward positive habits. When I get a craving for pizza or fast food, remembering the awful stomachache and other side effect that would result helps me resist.
Strong first post.0 -
amanda_qed wrote: »...I also think there is a benefit to Alli. Not so much for long-term weight loss, but it's been great for conditioning my behavior toward positive habits. When I get a craving for pizza or fast food, remembering the awful stomachache and other side effect that would result helps me resist.
1) Things like pizza and fast food can be enjoyed (in moderation) within the context of an overall well-rounded diet.
2) I can't see any benefit whatsoever in greasy orange anal leakage.5 -
Maybe some pills do have benefits whilst on a healthy diet. I'm not a scientific researcher! All I do know is I took a load when yoyo dieting in the past and it led to bad things. The worst being a horrific rash all over my body from supposed "all natural" ingredients...0
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Heck, poison ivy is all natural, and I get spectacular hives from all natural almonds. I get all rashy from niacin, too.1
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As a few people have already mentioned, the ECA/Ephedrine/Ephedra products do seem to have a good effect on fat - certainly when I've used them, but you just can't use them and expect success if your diet is crap or you're not exercising - it's pointless. There's also Clenbuterol which is heading into darker areas of supplementation, adjacent to steroids but the side effects are horrendous. The vast majority of all supplements are hoax and marketing *kitten*, you're better off counting calories on here, avoiding alcohol, drinking lots of water, and working out.2
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Just for anyone interested - Ephedrine is REASONABLY close to amphetamines in terms of molecular structure. It's banned in many countries (probably because it works and the Health Boards don't like it!)3
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Just for anyone interested - Ephedrine is REASONABLY close to amphetamines in terms of molecular structure. It's banned in many countries (probably because it works and the Health Boards don't like it!)
Unfortunately, anything that actually works is eventually banned somewhere. I can't tell of it's the fault of a nanny state, or a moronic public that wants everything to be completely safe, even in the hands our dimmest bulbs. Safe and effective rarely coexist.1 -
^ as said above, back in the day when I used to workout a lot I used the old EC stack (Ephedrine, caffeine) It did help me loose weight / bulk up but not because of any magic reaction. It just gave me energy and I had so much to spare I would do extra exercise.2
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