Rippetoe's Fundamental Flaw

jonnythan

I doubt anyone else on this forum will recognize the name George Irvine, but if you do, you will recognize the same pattern.

These are both men who virtually revolutionized their respective pursuits specifically through their unrelenting attitude and unassailable experience and knowledge.

These are both men who, as a result of these same qualities, have seen an intense internet backlash from people who can't touch their accomplishments.

I will give the haters and complainers here the same advice that ol GI3 gave: rearrange your cotton.

richardheath

Is it a flaw? Yes.

Is it a fundamental flaw that invalidates everything else he has to say? No.

I don't condone homophobia or misogyny in my friends; that doesn't mean that sometimes some of my friends come out with homophobic or misogynistic comments. Not everybody is perfect in every way.

Plus Rip is right about gloves: I found they do make deadlifts much harder! Chalk is definitely the way to go.

delicious_cocktail

Your argument contains the logical fallacy ad hominem. Please reevaluate your statements and formulate a new strategy for your argument if you intend on continuing your argument.

If I may help you: I'm not arguing that because he's sexist, he is wrong. I'm arguing that because directly links his conclusion to his sexism, his conclusion is suspect. Please reevaluate your objection and formulate a new strategy for your counterargument.

BeachGingerOnTheRocks

Rippetoe is a terrible homophobic asshat with good information on form and lifting.

Having to navigate life to glean information from asshats is just part of having to live in society. It kinda sucks that people buy into the "don't wear gloves or you're gay" crap because it does interfere with the "keep your *kitten* out and back" good stuff.

I, in fact, wear gloves. But only part of the time. Sometimes only on one hand. You could even call me bi-gloval. And to further clarify, just because I like to wear gloves sometimes doesn't mean that I'm not committed to the bar.

prattiger65

I cant wait for Utopia where everyone gets to say and believe the exact same thing. What a glorious time that will be. I'll play devils advocate with you, so what if he is a homophobe and a sexist? Do you think he gives a tinkers damn what you think? Or me for that matter? Get over yourself and stop trying to find things wrong everywhere.

whierd

If you think I am being mean, then I can understand why you felt it necessary to make this thread.

The larger diameter bars do make for a more challenging grip, but they are specifically for improving grip strength, no? That would mean that during the course of your usual workout, you would not want to use a larger diameter bar while, let's say, deadlifting, because you would be more likely to need wrist straps because your grip would potentially fail as you approach your 1RM.

However, by all means, use gloves. I dont really see anything wrong with them and have used them myself in the past. They make me feel badass.

BarackMeLikeAHurricane

Your argument contains the logical fallacy ad hominem. Please reevaluate your statements and formulate a new strategy for your argument if you intend on continuing your argument.

If I may help you: I'm not arguing that because he's sexist, he is wrong. I'm arguing that because directly links his conclusion to his sexism, his conclusion is suspect. Please reevaluate your objection and formulate a new strategy for your counterargument.

His conclusion is not based on his (alleged) sexism. In the instance of not using gloves, his argument is correct. Gloves increase the width of the bar because you have to grip around the gloves as well. Plus, they can be even worse for causing callouses because they can cause extra friction between your hands (more surfaces interacting). After he makes his claim, he makes a joke that could be interpreted by some as being sexist. The joke is not the basis for his claim.

BeachGingerOnTheRocks

I kind of find it funny how this community is all about women lifting and constantly beats down women who are afraid of "getting bulky" but at the same time laughs at someone who points out the "manly man boys club" mentality in the books that are held up as the basics of lifting. Go figure.

I agree with you OP. I think it's BS and makes him look like a terrible homophobe and a general a$$hat. It sucks that he's an "ambassador" as you call it of strength training.

Also, all the first amendment talk is insufferable. I'm gunna take a guess and say that you don't ever deal with hate speech? Yeah. Enjoy your privaledge.

I think being a homophobe and a$$hat are entry-level job requirements in that area, so I don't think it's going to hurt him any.

I think Chris D i c k e r s o n would disagree with this. He's not so into self-loathing.

navyrigger46

Personally I find his lack of PC refreshing, it makes him real, unpolished. If anything it adds to his credibility.

Rigger

delicious_cocktail

If you think I am being mean, then I can understand why you felt it necessary to make this thread.

The larger diameter bars do make for a more challenging grip, but they are specifically for improving grip strength, no? That would mean that during the course of your usual workout, you would not want to use a larger diameter bar while, let's say, deadlifting, because you would be more likely to need wrist straps because your grip would potentially fail as you approach your 1RM.

However, by all means, use gloves. I dont really see anything wrong with them and have used them myself in the past. They make me feel badass.

I don't think you're being mean, Wheird. I think you're being dismissive and you're debating in bad faith.

The question at core is not whether or not we should use gloves. The question is on the extent to which his conclusions, including about gloves, are based on his distaste for women or gays. I'm not the one who made that connection, HE is.

cant wait for Utopia where everyone gets to say and believe the exact same thing. What a glorious time that will be. I'll play devils advocate with you, so what if he is a homophobe and a sexist? Do you think he gives a tinkers damn what you think? Or me for that matter? Get over yourself and stop trying to find things wrong everywhere.

I imagine you're one of those folks that reads the OP but not the discourse. There is no issue with him 'simply' being a homophobe and a sexist. Whether he cares what I think or not is irrelevant. And you certainly needn't care what I think. But it's not about whether he's a good person or a bad person. He has intrinsically linked his homophobia and sexism with his exercise philosophy. That's why it matters. I have no idea how much his exercise philosophy is influenced by his belief that gloves are for women.

SteveJWatson

a) Gloves are for *kitten*

b) Who cares? (apart from the OP, obviously)

delicious_cocktail

a) Gloves are for *kitten*

b) Who cares?

See, I love lifting and I'm embarrassed of this. And I think it's really crappy that one of the best scholars promotes this stuff.

"Alleged" sexism indeed.

ninerbuff

In life and history there are lots of great scholars who were asshats in one way or another.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

_Emma_Problema_

I kind of find it funny how this community is all about women lifting and constantly beats down women who are afraid of "getting bulky" but at the same time laughs at someone who points out the "manly man boys club" mentality in the books that are held up as the basics of lifting. Go figure.

I agree with you OP. I think it's BS and makes him look like a terrible homophobe and a general a$$hat. It sucks that he's an "ambassador" as you call it of strength training.

Also, all the first amendment talk is insufferable. I'm gunna take a guess and say that you don't ever deal with hate speech? Yeah. Enjoy your privaledge.

I think being a homophobe and a$$hat are entry-level job requirements in that area, so I don't think it's going to hurt him any.

I find that terribly depressing. The job of educating people on the positive health and self-esteem benefits of lifting requires a homophobic a$$hat? Note that the book is called "Starting strength" not "constantly doing dumbbell curls because I am a gym bro".

SrJoben

These are both men who, as a result of these same qualities, have seen an intense internet backlash from people who can't touch their accomplishments.

This is a reasoning flaw I like to explain with a restaurant analogy.

You order a meal and later on you see the chef cursing out another employee in front of customers. You think this is unprofessional and say so to your friends. They respond "You fool, how dare you say that, you aren't a chef! Who are you to judge?"

In this case your friends are idiots. It doesn't matter if you're a chef or not in this case. Similarly you don't need to be strong or to be a published author to point out that Mark Ripptoe sometimes says stupid things.

I find myself questioning what he writes more and more often, because I always have to ask myself if he's saying it because it's solid training advice and he has facts to back it up or because he thinks it's manlier for some emotion based reason of his own.

tracieangeletti

Well, I bought and use gloves and ironically they do match my gym bag (not planned), but then again I am a woman so what do you expect? Lol ;-)

jonnythan

These are both men who, as a result of these same qualities, have seen an intense internet backlash from people who can't touch their accomplishments.

This is a reasoning flaw I like to explain with a restaurant analogy.

You order a meal and later on you see the chef cursing out another employee in front of customers. You think this is unprofessional and say so to your friends. They respond "You fool, how dare you say that, you aren't a chef! Who are you to judge?"

In this case your friends are idiots. It doesn't matter if you're a chef or not in this case. Similarly you don't need to be strong or to be a published author to point out that Mark Ripptoe sometimes says stupid things.

I find myself questioning what he writes more and more often, because I always have to ask myself if he's saying it because it's solid training advice and he has facts to back it up or because he thinks it's manlier for some emotion based reason of his own.

By all means, question his statements. I'm sure he doesn't care. Neither does GI3. We're not at a restaurant and we're not their employees.

If you want to criticize them for their attitude, fine. But the point is that it's largely as a result of this attitude that they have accomplished what they have accomplished.

Mia_RagazzaTosta

a) Gloves are for *kitten*

Well it's a good thing I have one then because I use them.

delicious_cocktail

By all means, question his statements. I'm sure he doesn't care. Neither does GI3. We're not at a restaurant and we're not their employees.

If you want to criticize them for their attitude, fine. But the point is that it's largely as a result of this attitude that they have accomplished what they have accomplished.

Please clarify this assertion. I understand you to be saying that Rippetoe's derisive attitude toward women and gays is a large contributor to his accomplishments. I would like to understand this.

jonnythan

By all means, question his statements. I'm sure he doesn't care. Neither does GI3. We're not at a restaurant and we're not their employees.

If you want to criticize them for their attitude, fine. But the point is that it's largely as a result of this attitude that they have accomplished what they have accomplished.

Please clarify this assertion. I understand you to be saying that Rippetoe's derisive attitude toward women and gays is a large contributor to his accomplishments. I would like to understand this.

You are intentionally misunderstanding me.

It's the unrelenting attitude and tendency to be insultingly dismissive of what they perceive to be poor or wrong ideas that is a large contributor to their accomplishments.