August (2016) Running Challenge

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  • Azercord
    Azercord Posts: 573 Member
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    OK @Stoshew71 @MNLittleFinn @5512bf (and anyone else that wants to chime in). I'm fairly new to the long distance stuff and I think I may be running a bit too fast but I'm not 100% (nor how much I should slow it down to). I'm currently running between a 7:30-8 minute pace and I can hold this for about 8 miles (when I do 20k I tend to slide into the 8:30+ range) but my HR is around 165-170 which sounds like it is a bit high from what is posted here. Should I slow down or is this a sustainable thing? I don't think I'll train much past a 20k because of time restrictions so how should I approach this?
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    edited August 2016
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    Azercord wrote: »
    OK @Stoshew71 @MNLittleFinn @5512bf (and anyone else that wants to chime in). I'm fairly new to the long distance stuff and I think I may be running a bit too fast but I'm not 100% (nor how much I should slow it down to). I'm currently running between a 7:30-8 minute pace and I can hold this for about 8 miles (when I do 20k I tend to slide into the 8:30+ range) but my HR is around 165-170 which sounds like it is a bit high from what is posted here. Should I slow down or is this a sustainable thing? I don't think I'll train much past a 20k because of time restrictions so how should I approach this?

    I can relate to the time restrictions, since I run first thing in the morning before work. If I wake up late, I tend to push it harder than normal to get done in time.

    As far as numbers, in order to use HR as a guide, you have to know (or estimate very closely) what your max HR is; then you figure out your different training zones based upon percentages of your HR. I never used this and rarely wear my HRM, but many swear by the Maffetone formula.

    Now what I will suggest, if you already have a base and are consisently running the same volume week after week, you don't want to run every single run at the same pace. You are going to want to start adding different variety of workouts at various paces to stress the different systems. But the bulk of your running should still be in the easy pace range.

    As I posted yesterday, 2 videos about easy paced running. It's about 60-65% of your max HR, or if you go by feel, you should still be able to carry on a conversation without it effect your breathing.

    Any running lasting longer than ~90 minutes will be much slower than your shorter runs.
    1) ~60 minutes is the limit that you can sustain your LT pace. So running beyond that will result in paces much slower than this.

    2) The longer you run, you will begin to exhaust your slow twitch muscle fibers forcing you to engage your med twitch and fast twitch muscles (muscle fiber recruitment ladder). According to studies, once you activate your fast twitch muscles, you will breach your ventilatory threshold (breathing will become more rapid).

    I'm not sure if any of that helps, but it should explain why certain things happen.

  • greenolivetree
    greenolivetree Posts: 1,282 Member
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    @Twallace101 Welcome to the group!
    @Orphia Those pics!!! <3
    @jlyeki Good luck with your foot.
    @MandaNar You're off to a good start :)
    @djspacecaptain You're already ahead of schedule :smiley:
    @kristinegift I'm going to pretend I didn't read 59F so I don't have to hate you :-p
    @MNLittleFinn There you go, putting me to shame again B) Nice run!
    @sara_bear84 Now that you've gotten started, just keep the ball rolling!
    @ariceroni Love the quote <3

    @ceciliaslater YES! Oklahoma and Arkansas are simply not equipped to handle snow. I generally stay home but hubby always goes to work and he's never wrecked. When I do go out, I just go slow and space out (from the other cars. LOL) so I don't have to brake.

    @MaVieEntiere Don't let us southerners scare you. If you move to MA they should know how to drive in snow. LOL My dad has been to Haiti many times :)

    @Elise4270 I'm not quite sure why my non-running friend was even reading an article from women's running magazine. Haha! She hates exercise of all forms. I don't even talk to her about running anymore because she was so awful about it. We're fitbit friends and she was questioning the other day how I was getting so many steps. ***crickets chirping***

    @Stoshew71 Great video clip :D

  • Azercord
    Azercord Posts: 573 Member
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    @Stoshew71 I'm might just have to give the HR thing a try, I always wear my fitbit but I hardly ever check it especially during a run (I zone out a lot) but I will just have to up the effort there and make it a habit. I would prefer to do the conversational one but I don't ever have anyone to run with. My wife and I trade days so that someone is home with the kids (both young) and no one at work will run with me because they are babies and thing 100+ degrees is "too hot" :tongue: From the looks of the HR calculation I need to slow down by about 20 bpm so I'll give that a shot.
  • 5512bf
    5512bf Posts: 389 Member
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    @Azercord

    I'm one that swears by the HR monitor. I've had my trainer do a blood lactic HR test to determine my exact lactic threshold and set my zone based on that. Sometime the percentages alone are off a bit, but could get you close. My threshold is 172 with max at 200ish which puts my threshold at 85-86% of max. Some others might be only 75% of max and some at closer to 90%. If you are going to train on HR zones i feel it's important to know where the zones are so you can do the various workout in the correct zone. I also loosely use the 80/20 method where 80% of your runs should be easy, at a pace you can carry on a conversation. My easy pace based on percentage of HR is less than 75%, or under 150 BPM. Typically i'll average between 138-145 on my middle distance and long runs. I generally try to avoid anything in the mid to upper 150's and 160's unless I'm doing speed work. If i stayed at the 60-65% of max like @Stoshew71 posted, I personally would not get a good workout. I can still have a conversation at 70-75% but that is not the case for everyone, generally only those who have worked a couple years building a solid base easy miles.

    Based on your age, 165-170 might be a bit high for an easy paced run using Fitzgerald's 80/20 method. But without knowing a lot of other variables it would be difficult to estimate where it should be. As far as Maffetone formula, it's WAY off for me as well. 180-43+5 puts my Aerobic max at 142. That's just approaching my transition from warmup to aerobic based on my HR test. I ran my last Half Marathon at an average of 166. The problem with all the formulas is as you train you can increase your fitness and move those numbers up. I'll agree with stoshew that you should mix-up your running paces. I will often throw in a 8-10 x 100m strides in the middle of a run. After a really taxing run like I did yesterday I'll do a recovery run where I aim to keep my HR & pace lower than normal. Once every 10 days or so i'll do a threshold/tempo run, and i've been know to throw in a fast finish on a long run. As my Marathon gets closer i'll transition into less tempo work and more VO2max workouts. Every author of every plan has a specific method for arraigning the runs based on their training or the training of others.

  • Somebody_Loved
    Somebody_Loved Posts: 498 Member
    edited August 2016
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    A lot to catch up on when you miss a day!

    @lporter229 - The Nimbus and GT-2000 have similar cushioning, but the Nimbus is softer whereas the 2000 cushioning is more dense. I happen to like the Nimbus better in that area because I like the feeling of a "cloud like" run, but I get more support from the 2000 so I'm sticking with that for now.

    @_nikkiwolf_ - Confession - I quit through the first YAYOG workout. I didn't realize he has you use props (doors, chairs, etc) so I quit halfway through to just review the exercises instead of trying to figure them out as I go. I'll complete the first workout in full tonight. From the preview I got it definitely seems like a great workout, though, and I really think I could benefit from it if I do it consistently (just like you were saying). Funny how I look forward to 2 1/2 hours of running but can't find the motivation for 30 minutes of strength. Something I'm working on!
  • instantmartian
    instantmartian Posts: 335 Member
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    Re: Non Runners

    Last week at work, one of my coworkers, who knows I run and is the only one who will talk to me about it, asked if I had a run planned for that afternoon/evening. I noted that I was supposed to be doing 4 miles, but I wasn't sure if that was going to happen with the storms rolling through. (We had torrential downpours that day, and I never did make it out.) We then got to talking about my half marathon training, and I noted that my next long run was 7 miles.

    The new girl who sits between me and the coworker who was having said conversation chimes in and goes, "Wait, you're going to run 7 miles all at once?" To which I replied, "Well, yeah. I have to if I'm going to be in good enough shape to run 13.1 in a month and a half." She then asks, "But that doesn't make you tired? I can't run for more than a couple minutes at a time." I replied that if you pace yourself properly it's doable, and that I would, of course, run the 4 miles faster than I would run the 7. She then asked me how long it would take me to run the 7 miles, and I noted that I am kind of slow right now, quite a bit slower than I had been at one point, but I could probably do the 7 miles at an 11 minute per mile pace, so it would probably take me somewhere around an hour and twenty minutes to finish. Her response was, "Oh. So you don't run for 7 miles...you JOG." All I could say was, "Yeah, I guess." and I walked away.
  • TattooedDolphinGirl78
    TattooedDolphinGirl78 Posts: 5,214 Member
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    instantmartian wrote: »
    Re: Non Runners

    Last week at work, one of my coworkers, who knows I run and is the only one who will talk to me about it, asked if I had a run planned for that afternoon/evening. I noted that I was supposed to be doing 4 miles, but I wasn't sure if that was going to happen with the storms rolling through. (We had torrential downpours that day, and I never did make it out.) We then got to talking about my half marathon training, and I noted that my next long run was 7 miles.

    The new girl who sits between me and the coworker who was having said conversation chimes in and goes, "Wait, you're going to run 7 miles all at once?" To which I replied, "Well, yeah. I have to if I'm going to be in good enough shape to run 13.1 in a month and a half." She then asks, "But that doesn't make you tired? I can't run for more than a couple minutes at a time." I replied that if you pace yourself properly it's doable, and that I would, of course, run the 4 miles faster than I would run the 7. She then asked me how long it would take me to run the 7 miles, and I noted that I am kind of slow right now, quite a bit slower than I had been at one point, but I could probably do the 7 miles at an 11 minute per mile pace, so it would probably take me somewhere around an hour and twenty minutes to finish. Her response was, "Oh. So you don't run for 7 miles...you JOG." All I could say was, "Yeah, I guess." and I walked away.

    Just wow...
  • Somebody_Loved
    Somebody_Loved Posts: 498 Member
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    08/01 - 4 miles
    08/03 - 4 miles

    You guys - I ran completely PAIN FREE last night! I got some orthotics to try out a few days ago and I'm not sure if it's those, the stretches/workouts, or everything combined, but I was giddy. Trying to stay calm and avoid doing too much too soon, but I feel like I'm going the right direction which feels great.

    I am a little worried about the HMs I have in September... Only 5 weeks away and I've only run one double-digit run in the past 7 weeks. Not sure there's enough time for me to progress back up to HM mileage. Any thoughts?

    exercise.png

    Keeping my goal mileage low for now, but will definitely raise it if my knees remain healthy.
  • Mathsrunner
    Mathsrunner Posts: 93 Member
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    2/8: 3.7 Miles
    4/8: 10.1 Miles

    exercise.png

  • Somebody_Loved
    Somebody_Loved Posts: 498 Member
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    instantmartian wrote: »
    Re: Non Runners

    Last week at work, one of my coworkers, who knows I run and is the only one who will talk to me about it, asked if I had a run planned for that afternoon/evening. I noted that I was supposed to be doing 4 miles, but I wasn't sure if that was going to happen with the storms rolling through. (We had torrential downpours that day, and I never did make it out.) We then got to talking about my half marathon training, and I noted that my next long run was 7 miles.

    The new girl who sits between me and the coworker who was having said conversation chimes in and goes, "Wait, you're going to run 7 miles all at once?" To which I replied, "Well, yeah. I have to if I'm going to be in good enough shape to run 13.1 in a month and a half." She then asks, "But that doesn't make you tired? I can't run for more than a couple minutes at a time." I replied that if you pace yourself properly it's doable, and that I would, of course, run the 4 miles faster than I would run the 7. She then asked me how long it would take me to run the 7 miles, and I noted that I am kind of slow right now, quite a bit slower than I had been at one point, but I could probably do the 7 miles at an 11 minute per mile pace, so it would probably take me somewhere around an hour and twenty minutes to finish. Her response was, "Oh. So you don't run for 7 miles...you JOG." All I could say was, "Yeah, I guess." and I walked away.

    Wow. This really gets to me, too. I've heard some say that the "cut off" is 10 minutes/mile. In that case, I didn't run a marathon, I jogged it. *eye roll*
  • instantmartian
    instantmartian Posts: 335 Member
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    @Somebody_Loved: Yay for the road to recovery! I hope things continue to improve for you and you crush your upcoming half! Also, in that case, I guess I rarely ever run, as most of what I do is over a 10 min/mile pace. *eye roll* is right!
  • greenolivetree
    greenolivetree Posts: 1,282 Member
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    instantmartian wrote: »
    Re: Non Runners

    Last week at work, one of my coworkers, who knows I run and is the only one who will talk to me about it, asked if I had a run planned for that afternoon/evening. I noted that I was supposed to be doing 4 miles, but I wasn't sure if that was going to happen with the storms rolling through. (We had torrential downpours that day, and I never did make it out.) We then got to talking about my half marathon training, and I noted that my next long run was 7 miles.

    The new girl who sits between me and the coworker who was having said conversation chimes in and goes, "Wait, you're going to run 7 miles all at once?" To which I replied, "Well, yeah. I have to if I'm going to be in good enough shape to run 13.1 in a month and a half." She then asks, "But that doesn't make you tired? I can't run for more than a couple minutes at a time." I replied that if you pace yourself properly it's doable, and that I would, of course, run the 4 miles faster than I would run the 7. She then asked me how long it would take me to run the 7 miles, and I noted that I am kind of slow right now, quite a bit slower than I had been at one point, but I could probably do the 7 miles at an 11 minute per mile pace, so it would probably take me somewhere around an hour and twenty minutes to finish. Her response was, "Oh. So you don't run for 7 miles...you JOG." All I could say was, "Yeah, I guess." and I walked away.

    Rude. So can SHE "jog" 7 miles then since she can't "run" more than a few minutes?

    My friend followed me on different apps I was using and after I'd run she'd text and say something like "You ran a whole hour? Ugh. How boring." or "I just have more important things to do than spend an hour exercising. I mean, I have kids and everything." LOL She's a stay at home mom of school aged kids. In other words, all 9 month school year she's home alone ALL DAY. So when I got my Garmin I didn't tell her so she can't ask to follow me on there too :#

    @Somebody_Loved Great news on your knees! Seeing you have run long distances before I think you could still pull off the HM in September. But I'm no expert since I don't race.

  • KatieJane83
    KatieJane83 Posts: 2,002 Member
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    Ok, I know I'm late to the party, but this looks like fun!

    My goal for August is 75 miles. Last month I hit 72, and that was a huge increase for me, so I'm trying not to burn myself out before my half at the end of September.

    August runs so far:

    0qf1z5wq9vxv.jpg
  • Azercord
    Azercord Posts: 573 Member
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    @KatieJane83 I'm loving the "dreadmill" comment in there.

    @5512bf while I don't think I'll be hitting up the doc anytime soon to get that specific (unless the marathon bug finally bites me) I'll just try backing my heart rate down a bit (150-155) and see how I feel. I'm not sure if my watch will bug me if I pass a certain threshold but I'll see. I've also turned off the little voice on my running app that tells me the pace and will just run at however I feel and see if that helps.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    edited August 2016
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    instantmartian wrote: »
    Re: Non Runners

    Last week at work, one of my coworkers, who knows I run and is the only one who will talk to me about it, asked if I had a run planned for that afternoon/evening. I noted that I was supposed to be doing 4 miles, but I wasn't sure if that was going to happen with the storms rolling through. (We had torrential downpours that day, and I never did make it out.) We then got to talking about my half marathon training, and I noted that my next long run was 7 miles.

    The new girl who sits between me and the coworker who was having said conversation chimes in and goes, "Wait, you're going to run 7 miles all at once?" To which I replied, "Well, yeah. I have to if I'm going to be in good enough shape to run 13.1 in a month and a half." She then asks, "But that doesn't make you tired? I can't run for more than a couple minutes at a time." I replied that if you pace yourself properly it's doable, and that I would, of course, run the 4 miles faster than I would run the 7. She then asked me how long it would take me to run the 7 miles, and I noted that I am kind of slow right now, quite a bit slower than I had been at one point, but I could probably do the 7 miles at an 11 minute per mile pace, so it would probably take me somewhere around an hour and twenty minutes to finish. Her response was, "Oh. So you don't run for 7 miles...you JOG." All I could say was, "Yeah, I guess." and I walked away.

    Tell her it's not jogging, it's yogging! EDIT: Or better yet, "I'm not jogging. I haven't found any dead bodies yet."



    LOL @ @skippygirlsmom your pic.
  • TattooedDolphinGirl78
    TattooedDolphinGirl78 Posts: 5,214 Member
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    Somebody_Loved wrote: »

    You guys - I ran completely PAIN FREE last night! I got some orthotics to try out a few days ago and I'm not sure if it's those, the stretches/workouts, or everything combined, but I was giddy. Trying to stay calm and avoid doing too much too soon, but I feel like I'm going the right direction which feels great.

    That's awesome news!!!! :smiley:
  • TattooedDolphinGirl78
    TattooedDolphinGirl78 Posts: 5,214 Member
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    skippygirlsmom wrote: »
    I'm eye rolling all the comments people get from non runners geesh

    I always enjoy the conversations on heart rate, pace etc so I'll leave this gem right here

    5vripvtcc6k6.jpg

    Another hilarious pic!!! Love it!
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    Cool article about the Birmingham, Alabama running community.

    http://www.runnersworld.com/general-interest/in-birmingham-southern-hospitality-shines-through-to-help-runners

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