Allowed to be armed on Campus
Replies
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MissusMoon wrote: »Remember a week or two ago when the open carry folks turned tail and ran when someone shot at the police? And how the police weren't sure who to arrest?
Real life experiences are far more complex than talking on the internet.
He didn't tuck tail and run. He went to the PD and turned his gun in until everything was done and over with the PD to show he wasn't a threat.
That was his second response. His first response was to tuck and run. The dozens of other long gun carrying demonstrators also ran and did not make any effort to assist police.0 -
jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.
Range time doesn't equal stressful environment. You need to take Level II training and sometimes up to level III training to really get your HR up and get your nerves working.
I don't disagree.
I do see an issue with people going to the CHL classes, going to the range, buying their Bodyguard and thinking they're good to go. It's not like that at all. You need more.2 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
I disagree concerning impulse control, the brain isn't fully developed until approximately our mid 20's. Peer pressure, underage drinking, alcohol/drug abuse, hazing/bullying, sexual assaults're all frequent incidents, among college students.
If guns are allowed to be carried by college students, it's probably the more conservatively inclined students who would make the effort to get licensed and carry them. And for the right reasons. They would less likely be the drunks, the recreational drug users, the rapists and the bullies who have underdeveloped brains but are past the age of consent. And probably, the student drunks, student drug users, student rapists and student bullies would think twice before aggressing against the legally armed students who want nothing to do with that behavior or the under developed individuals who engage in it.
Conservative/liberal, has nothing to do with brain development; via age.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
I had a very different experience and a concealed permit at that time. I probably drink more now than I did back then. I had to keep my weapon in my car though.0 -
Here is where I agree. We're not talking about adults with fully developed brains making decisions while fully understanding the consequences. We're speaking of 18-24 year olds. What if someone is drunk or high? Many times killings happen based on emotional trauma or distress.FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
Also my concern would be, if any gun discharged occurred, even if it was to protect others, who's to say those shots don't injure innocents because they missed the intended target?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Also guns're accidentally fired!0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
Also guns're accidentally fired!
If the gun is in a holster with a trigger guard the chances of that happening are under 1% with a modern firearm.3 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.
Range time doesn't equal stressful environment. You need to take Level II training and sometimes up to level III training to really get your HR up and get your nerves working.
Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
Also guns're accidentally fired!
If the gun is in a holster with a trigger guard the chances of that happening are under 1% with a modern firearm.
I've seen this only happen once in my life, and it was due to an old and worn out firearm that shouldn't have been in use. We knew it was a PoS, so it was only loaded at the range and sure enough, it went off. Contrast that to tens of thousands of rounds fired, a couple of drops, and at least one motorcycle accident with an armed rider. I'd argue it's much less than 1%.2 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
I had a very different experience and a concealed permit at that time. I probably drink more now than I did back then. I had to keep my weapon in my car though.
I've had a concealed permit for as long as I can remember and I'm a former Marine...I'm just saying their were a lot of people at my college who were nowhere near responsible enough to just willy nilly carry fire arms around...particularly as there really aren't any rules or requirements to open carry...nobody is required to go to any kind of training, etc. Just saying there are a *kitten* ton of just irresponsible people out there, particularly in their late teens and early 20s.1 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....3 -
Thank you for your service.....cwolfman13 wrote: »I've had a concealed permit for as long as I can remember and I'm a former Marine...I'm just saying their were a lot of people at my college who were nowhere near responsible enough to just willy nilly carry fire arms around...particularly as there really aren't any rules or requirements to open carry...nobody is required to go to any kind of training, etc. Just saying there are a *kitten* ton of just irresponsible people out there, particularly in their late teens and early 20s.
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FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
I had a very different experience and a concealed permit at that time. I probably drink more now than I did back then. I had to keep my weapon in my car though.
I've had a concealed permit for as long as I can remember and I'm a former Marine...I'm just saying their were a lot of people at my college who were nowhere near responsible enough to just willy nilly carry fire arms around...particularly as there really aren't any rules or requirements to open carry...nobody is required to go to any kind of training, etc. Just saying there are a *kitten* ton of just irresponsible people out there, particularly in their late teens and early 20s.
I don't disagree on the training point or that there are irresponsible people. My point is that the people I do know, and have known, who carry are not that type.1 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.0 -
I wouldn't be comfortable with that, but I'm anti-gun, for many reasons. At least once a week, while watching the shooting-filled news, I remember how happy I am to be where I am, and feeling somewhat safe here, so far.0
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cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
OMG, you just reminded me how much I loved college!0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.
Your diatribe is one of the problems with people's perception of mental health. Way to help spread misinformation. People with mental health issues are several times more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.
As for suicide, firearms are generally the preferred choice of suicide method only among men, and everyday drugs and other items are also readily available and also very often used. I'll add that Japan has a very high suicide rate and yet has some of the strictest gun laws on the planet. This highlights the problem with ignoring cultural issues when looking at the statistics on violent death and suicide. It's also rather naive to think bans of anything really work when one considers the recent explosion of violence in Europe and our own failed efforts with the silly drug war. Training, education, and treatment are too often overlooked by those seeking simple answers to complex issues.4 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.
Your diatribe is one of the problems with people's perception of mental health. Way to help spread misinformation. People with mental health issues are several times more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.
As for suicide, firearms are generally the preferred choice of suicide method only among men, and everyday drugs and other items are also readily available and also very often used. I'll add that Japan has a very high suicide rate and yet has some of the strictest gun laws on the planet. This highlights the problem with ignoring cultural issues when looking at the statistics on violent death and suicide. It's also rather naive to think bans of anything really work when one considers the recent explosion of violence in Europe and our own failed efforts with the silly drug war. Training, education, and treatment are too often overlooked by those seeking simple answers to complex issues.
My comment made no indication, that illegal usage of a gun; was only done my the mentally ill or that there aren't other methods to committing suicide.0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.
So how do you propose that we monitor mental health. IF the observer is a Pro Gun person.. then everyone gets a gun no matter their mental state. And if the person is AntiGun then no one gets a gun. If you do a panel of even numbers observers it could stale... if you get an odd number it's always going to fall into Pro Gun v Anti-Gun.0 -
JustMissTracy wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
OMG, you just reminded me how much I loved college!
It was good times! Kids and family life and actual responsibilities have certainly put a damper on things...1 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.
Your diatribe is one of the problems with people's perception of mental health. Way to help spread misinformation. People with mental health issues are several times more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.
As for suicide, firearms are generally the preferred choice of suicide method only among men, and everyday drugs and other items are also readily available and also very often used. I'll add that Japan has a very high suicide rate and yet has some of the strictest gun laws on the planet. This highlights the problem with ignoring cultural issues when looking at the statistics on violent death and suicide. It's also rather naive to think bans of anything really work when one considers the recent explosion of violence in Europe and our own failed efforts with the silly drug war. Training, education, and treatment are too often overlooked by those seeking simple answers to complex issues.
My comment made no indication, that illegal usage of a gun; was only done my the mentally ill or that there aren't other methods to committing suicide.
Did it have a point?0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.
Your diatribe is one of the problems with people's perception of mental health. Way to help spread misinformation. People with mental health issues are several times more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violence.
As for suicide, firearms are generally the preferred choice of suicide method only among men, and everyday drugs and other items are also readily available and also very often used. I'll add that Japan has a very high suicide rate and yet has some of the strictest gun laws on the planet. This highlights the problem with ignoring cultural issues when looking at the statistics on violent death and suicide. It's also rather naive to think bans of anything really work when one considers the recent explosion of violence in Europe and our own failed efforts with the silly drug war. Training, education, and treatment are too often overlooked by those seeking simple answers to complex issues.
My comment made no indication, that illegal usage of a gun; was only done my the mentally ill or that there aren't other methods to committing suicide.
You are however painting every gun owner as a ticking time bomb just waiting for the moment to lay into people with deadly force.
With Millions of guns in the hands of civilians and literally TRILLIONS of rounds of munition floating around if gun owners were as violent as you think they are.... you'd know it.4 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.
Does this training involve a woman running/walking along a path and some guy want to rape her? Does this involve paying for a gas in gas station and some wack job coming in with a firearm and wanting to rob the place. Does this training involve going to Costco for some items and a knife wielding maniac waning to start stabbing people?
But i guess with that logic you need to get off the internet because you could be slandering or infringing on copy righted material and just don't know it yet. I don't want you getting in trouble with the law or anything over that....
Just wow, what a suspiciously deflective response; to my question.
I don't think anyone is taking your question seriously.
I agree because they'd then have to question if their reason for having it might change, into potentially something sinister & they'd rather not. No 1 knows 100% currently, what their mental state'll always be. Mental illness, temporary insanity, unbearable tragedy, etc., can happen at all stages of life. So someone whom bought a gun a decade ago to protect themselves & had no intention to use it, to commit suicide at the time of the purchase; might actually use it for that purpose later & thus the person that they needed protection from, was themselves.
So how do you propose that we monitor mental health. IF the observer is a Pro Gun person.. then everyone gets a gun no matter their mental state. And if the person is AntiGun then no one gets a gun. If you do a panel of even numbers observers it could stale... if you get an odd number it's always going to fall into Pro Gun v Anti-Gun.
I am not entirely anti gun, hence my previous comment "Until these can be reasonably prevented, I can't vouch for gun ownership." Which is why I had no rebuttal, to the defense of such a minuscule 1% of modern guns; being accidentally fired because everything comes with risk. However I am not currently comfortable with the risk gun owners, can pose themselves because I don't believe that they're enough checks & balances. I believe that training using/storing a gun should be mandatory. Psychological testing, anger management & parenting classes (even if someone doesn't currently have children because they might later) before purchase. When divorce papers're filed, children're removed from the home by protective services, someone loses their job, their should be a temporary seizure for mental evaluations/counseling; since these can be very volatile times.0 -
Evaluation goes back to my earlier statement/question.
Lets say you are under evaluation.
Jack, who is anti-Gun sits you down and talks to you, and ask you a series of questions, You answer them. He deems you not warranted to own a firearm.
So you protest it.
Jim, who is Pro-Gun sits you down and talks to you, and ask you a series of questions. The same questions Jack asked you. You answer them in the same form, fashion and tone of voice. He deems you warranted to own a firearm.
Who do you go with? Who does the state go with? Do you ask for a third [we'll call him Bob], as a tie breaker. How can we be sure Bob isn't pro-gun or anti-gun?
I do agree there needs to be a level or physical training. And here in Ohio said training is required to get a CHL. And who is teaching the Parenting Class. Someone who is Pro-Gun is going to want the student to take their kid to a range and show them how to use a firearm and how powerful they are. Where as an Anti-Gun person is going to want them locked up and removed from the child/children.
And I am going to disagree with you on removing firearms from a person without a violent convection. Our second amendment guarantees us certain rights, until you remove that right for yourself. And once you start removing rights over a personal circumstance, that's a slippery slope I don't want to go down. Just like you don't remove a drivers license just because you saw someone with a beer in their hand. You wait for them to get a DUI then remove the license from them....2 -
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Armed always. No matter where you are.3
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Can you say that about ALL people that have guns on a campus legally?I am allowed to carry a concealed firearm in accordance with my states laws. I have proven myself to be free from all violent actions, drug and alcohol chargers, I've never had a warrant out for my arrest, and I've never had a restraining order against me.
I've passed my Background check with my local sheriffs office and I've passed a background check through the FBI.
My Finger Prints are on record with the local PD, Sheriff, and FBI.
My question(s) to you is- Can you say that about everyone else that your DD is hanging around with?
There are lot of people who are this way who aren't armed.[*] Why would you want your DD not around someone who has proven themselves to be an upstanding citizen in society.
It sounds great on paper. Still have to weigh in on the actual consequences though.and with ISIS attacks being up, lone wolf attacks being up, why wouldn't you want armed good guys around to help stomp these terrorist back into the sandholes from which they came.
My cousin is a strong gun advocate. Had a high security job at LLNL where he carried an M-16. Has a concealed permit to carry in CA. Has YET to confront anyone carrying a firearm or threat as a civilian. And believe me, he's itching for his chance to do it. So couldn't something go wrong here and if so, could it happen to an innocent?
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Well, the LEGAL system allows 18 year olds to make an "adult" decision. My point was that at that age, many may/will make decisions that they don't realize the consequence of later.sunnybeaches105 wrote: »
Here is where I agree. We're not talking about adults with fully developed brains making decisions while fully understanding the consequences. We're speaking of 18-24 year olds. What if someone is drunk or high? Many times killings happen based on emotional trauma or distress.FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
Also my concern would be, if any gun discharged occurred, even if it was to protect others, who's to say those shots don't injure innocents because they missed the intended target?
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And yet we took 18 year olds and let them die in Afghanistan. I'm not a fan of our age system for criminal responsibility, drinking, etc. and would prefer that we stop taking rights away from adults.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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