Allowed to be armed on Campus
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Hey_Its_That_One_Guy wrote: »Karb_Kween wrote: »More guns fixes the problems
Yeah
Look where all the mass shootings happen. Oh weird, most of them happen places where guns aren't allowed. Because criminals don't seem to care about "You can't have guns here" for some reason.
I thought most of them happened in the USA where guns are allowed though? Or am I missing your point?
Most of the shootings in the US happen in locations where weapons are not allowed like schools, movie theaters, government buildings, nightclubs, .... Businesses are free to restrict weapons and they re not allowed in schools and goverment buildings for the most part.0 -
jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
I disagree concerning impulse control, the brain isn't fully developed until approximately our mid 20's. Peer pressure, underage drinking, alcohol/drug abuse, hazing/bullying, sexual assaults're all frequent incidents, among college students.0 -
Remember a week or two ago when the open carry folks turned tail and ran when someone shot at the police? And how the police weren't sure who to arrest?
Real life experiences are far more complex than talking on the internet.1 -
Here is where I agree. We're not talking about adults with fully developed brains making decisions while fully understanding the consequences. We're speaking of 18-24 year olds. What if someone is drunk or high? Many times killings happen based on emotional trauma or distress.FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
Also my concern would be, if any gun discharged occurred, even if it was to protect others, who's to say those shots don't injure innocents because they missed the intended target?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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I am allowed to carry a concealed firearm in accordance with my states laws. I have proven myself to be free from all violent actions, drug and alcohol chargers, I've never had a warrant out for my arrest, and I've never had a restraining order against me.
I've passed my Background check with my local sheriffs office and I've passed a background check through the FBI.
My Finger Prints are on record with the local PD, Sheriff, and FBI.
My question(s) to you is- Can you say that about everyone else that your DD is hanging around with?
- Why would you want your DD not around someone who has proven themselves to be an upstanding citizen in society.
and with ISIS attacks being up, lone wolf attacks being up, why wouldn't you want armed good guys around to help stomp these terrorist back into the sandholes from which they came.5 -
MissusMoon wrote: »Remember a week or two ago when the open carry folks turned tail and ran when someone shot at the police? And how the police weren't sure who to arrest?
Real life experiences are far more complex than talking on the internet.
He didn't tuck tail and run. He went to the PD and turned his gun in until everything was done and over with the PD to show he wasn't a threat.8 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.0 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.
Range time doesn't equal stressful environment. You need to take Level II training and sometimes up to level III training to really get your HR up and get your nerves working.
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Here is where I agree. We're not talking about adults with fully developed brains making decisions while fully understanding the consequences. We're speaking of 18-24 year olds. What if someone is drunk or high? Many times killings happen based on emotional trauma or distress.FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
Also my concern would be, if any gun discharged occurred, even if it was to protect others, who's to say those shots don't injure innocents because they missed the intended target?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
And yet we took 18 year olds and let them die in Afghanistan. I'm not a fan of our age system for criminal responsibility, drinking, etc. and would prefer that we stop taking rights away from adults.1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.
Range time doesn't equal stressful environment. You need to take Level II training and sometimes up to level III training to really get your HR up and get your nerves working.
I don't disagree.0 -
MissusMoon wrote: »Remember a week or two ago when the open carry folks turned tail and ran when someone shot at the police? And how the police weren't sure who to arrest?
Real life experiences are far more complex than talking on the internet.
He didn't tuck tail and run. He went to the PD and turned his gun in until everything was done and over with the PD to show he wasn't a threat.
That was his second response. His first response was to tuck and run. The dozens of other long gun carrying demonstrators also ran and did not make any effort to assist police.0 -
jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...1 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.
Range time doesn't equal stressful environment. You need to take Level II training and sometimes up to level III training to really get your HR up and get your nerves working.
I don't disagree.
I do see an issue with people going to the CHL classes, going to the range, buying their Bodyguard and thinking they're good to go. It's not like that at all. You need more.2 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
I disagree concerning impulse control, the brain isn't fully developed until approximately our mid 20's. Peer pressure, underage drinking, alcohol/drug abuse, hazing/bullying, sexual assaults're all frequent incidents, among college students.
If guns are allowed to be carried by college students, it's probably the more conservatively inclined students who would make the effort to get licensed and carry them. And for the right reasons. They would less likely be the drunks, the recreational drug users, the rapists and the bullies who have underdeveloped brains but are past the age of consent. And probably, the student drunks, student drug users, student rapists and student bullies would think twice before aggressing against the legally armed students who want nothing to do with that behavior or the under developed individuals who engage in it.
Conservative/liberal, has nothing to do with brain development; via age.0 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
I had a very different experience and a concealed permit at that time. I probably drink more now than I did back then. I had to keep my weapon in my car though.0 -
Here is where I agree. We're not talking about adults with fully developed brains making decisions while fully understanding the consequences. We're speaking of 18-24 year olds. What if someone is drunk or high? Many times killings happen based on emotional trauma or distress.FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
Also my concern would be, if any gun discharged occurred, even if it was to protect others, who's to say those shots don't injure innocents because they missed the intended target?
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Also guns're accidentally fired!0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
Also guns're accidentally fired!
If the gun is in a holster with a trigger guard the chances of that happening are under 1% with a modern firearm.3 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
You're right. It's working well in France and Germany. The reality is that this is a rather complex area and it's not made any easier by researcher bias. I'm personally of the opinion that concealed carry permits are a great idea but they need to have mandatory range time. It is far more difficult to hit a target under pressure than many people seem to believe.
Range time doesn't equal stressful environment. You need to take Level II training and sometimes up to level III training to really get your HR up and get your nerves working.
Does this training only involve temporary stressful moments or does it also involve, how to react to life altering scenarios, such as a spouse wanting a divorce and/or an employee losing their job because those're the significant events, that lead to law abiding/sane gun owners snapping & executing their families/coworkers & none of the background checks you described passing, can account for these future possibilities. Also some criminals just haven't been caught yet, thus no criminal record; to check upon.0 -
FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
Also guns're accidentally fired!
If the gun is in a holster with a trigger guard the chances of that happening are under 1% with a modern firearm.
I've seen this only happen once in my life, and it was due to an old and worn out firearm that shouldn't have been in use. We knew it was a PoS, so it was only loaded at the range and sure enough, it went off. Contrast that to tens of thousands of rounds fired, a couple of drops, and at least one motorcycle accident with an armed rider. I'd argue it's much less than 1%.2 -
sunnybeaches105 wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »jennifer_417 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »FridayApril01st2016 wrote: »
He wasn't allowed to be armed yet he was armed how would allowing campus carry change this situation? Maybe I misunderstand what you are saying.
Obviously the Virginia Tech assailant, planned his crime but if a student with the same motives, doesn't take the opportunity to think twice before acting; an instantaneous decision could occur more often. Meaning that a law abiding/sane student could walk in with no intention of intentionally harming someone but then lose their temper & then do so because of an insult, directed at them.
I'm pretty sure the vast majority of the population is in enough control of their faculties not to just shoot anyone who annoys them.
Also, college students are higher IQ and therefore have more impulse control. Also, by virtue of the fact that they've made their way to college, they have more to lose and would think twice before doing anything so stupid.
This was not my experience in college...the majority went nuts drinking copious amounts of alcohol, doing drugs, and *kitten*!ng each others brains out...the impulse control was totally stellar...
I had a very different experience and a concealed permit at that time. I probably drink more now than I did back then. I had to keep my weapon in my car though.
I've had a concealed permit for as long as I can remember and I'm a former Marine...I'm just saying their were a lot of people at my college who were nowhere near responsible enough to just willy nilly carry fire arms around...particularly as there really aren't any rules or requirements to open carry...nobody is required to go to any kind of training, etc. Just saying there are a *kitten* ton of just irresponsible people out there, particularly in their late teens and early 20s.1
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