More plateau advice
Replies
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TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »You keep responding to posts, but specifically ignoring the ones asking if you'd be willing to open your diary for more tailored advice. In my opinion that screams information is being omitted. If you don't want to open it up, the least you could do is say you don't want to do so. In any case, you're eating at a deficit on paper, but not for your body, as stated earlier in the thread.
and there was me thinking i was invisible!!! :flowerforyou:
As stated, I will edit my post to state I am not opening my diary but to me, "Open your diary" is not helpful advice. In fact, it's more like a command. I'm not comfortable with it and it has nothing to do with what I am eating. I keep private notes in there and am just not comfortable having it open to the public. To me it's like an actual diary. It's not a big deal. No need to scrutinize.
asking you to open your diary is very good advice, because its the best way for people to be able to help you based on what you're consuming....
if you don't want to, that's fine, but people are limited in what they can offer as suggestions without that information.
Totally in agreement with this. After reading everything about this case, the only option is to look at the diary entries.
edited add: I do understand that you do not want to do this, but its only a few minutes (you can give a window of say 15 - 20 minutes for it to be open and then close it) for some experts to view things that can probably be pointed out in a matter of minutes and possibly solve this puzzle for you.
The other reason I don't want to open the diary is because I have been already through weeks and months worth of food diaries with my nutritionist, on a weekly basis, and have streamlined my food. I'm not saying people here won't know what they're talking about because you don't need a license to know about nutrition (though already in this thread several people have disagreed about certain things) - but I trust that I have worked on this part enough because there has been someone who has looked at every single entry for weeks and said it's fine. As for everything else, sure, that's up in the air. Obviously my deficit is not enough as calculated by MyFitnessPal. I need to know what it should be though. I can't just keep guessing. That hasn't worked. When I decreased my calories because I wasn't eating enough, I was losing too slowly. When I was told to increase them, the scale stopped moving all together.2 -
TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »You keep responding to posts, but specifically ignoring the ones asking if you'd be willing to open your diary for more tailored advice. In my opinion that screams information is being omitted. If you don't want to open it up, the least you could do is say you don't want to do so. In any case, you're eating at a deficit on paper, but not for your body, as stated earlier in the thread.
and there was me thinking i was invisible!!! :flowerforyou:
As stated, I will edit my post to state I am not opening my diary but to me, "Open your diary" is not helpful advice. In fact, it's more like a command. I'm not comfortable with it and it has nothing to do with what I am eating. I keep private notes in there and am just not comfortable having it open to the public. To me it's like an actual diary. It's not a big deal. No need to scrutinize.
asking you to open your diary is very good advice, because its the best way for people to be able to help you based on what you're consuming....
if you don't want to, that's fine, but people are limited in what they can offer as suggestions without that information.
I understand and that's fine. Never said it was bad advice.
you said it wasn't helpful advice... it really is!
In the past when I used MFP to log food (I use a different app now), I was afraid to open my diary because I thought I would be criticized for the type of food I ate. When I opened my diary, nobody cared about food type but pointed out errors in my logging. I followed the advice, which were logging errors (underestimating calories) and got back on track.
Understood. I don't think anyone could find things to criticize since how and what I ate are very basic for weight loss. But the logging errors, I understand, that could help. I try to use verified entries but obviously nothing is error-free entirely.0 -
carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »You keep responding to posts, but specifically ignoring the ones asking if you'd be willing to open your diary for more tailored advice. In my opinion that screams information is being omitted. If you don't want to open it up, the least you could do is say you don't want to do so. In any case, you're eating at a deficit on paper, but not for your body, as stated earlier in the thread.
and there was me thinking i was invisible!!! :flowerforyou:
As stated, I will edit my post to state I am not opening my diary but to me, "Open your diary" is not helpful advice. In fact, it's more like a command. I'm not comfortable with it and it has nothing to do with what I am eating. I keep private notes in there and am just not comfortable having it open to the public. To me it's like an actual diary. It's not a big deal. No need to scrutinize.
asking you to open your diary is very good advice, because its the best way for people to be able to help you based on what you're consuming....
if you don't want to, that's fine, but people are limited in what they can offer as suggestions without that information.
Totally in agreement with this. After reading everything about this case, the only option is to look at the diary entries.
edited add: I do understand that you do not want to do this, but its only a few minutes (you can give a window of say 15 - 20 minutes for it to be open and then close it) for some experts to view things that can probably be pointed out in a matter of minutes and possibly solve this puzzle for you.
The other reason I don't want to open the diary is because I have been already through weeks and months worth of food diaries with my nutritionist, on a weekly basis, and have streamlined my food. I'm not saying people here won't know what they're talking about because you don't need a license to know about nutrition (though already in this thread several people have disagreed about certain things) - but I trust that I have worked on this part enough because there has been someone who has looked at every single entry for weeks and said it's fine. As for everything else, sure, that's up in the air. Obviously my deficit is not enough as calculated by MyFitnessPal. I need to know what it should be though. I can't just keep guessing. That hasn't worked. When I decreased my calories because I wasn't eating enough, I was losing too slowly. When I was told to increase them, the scale stopped moving all together.
I get all of this. Let me throw one more thing out there, perhaps there is a member here in your thread you would sort of trust to OPEN your diary with a code and let that member work with you off the thread?
Just a thought, I am at a loss without seeing the entries. Other than that, all the advice you have been given is some good stuff for you to consider. We are always eager to help out. We do not want to criticize or do anything that will make you feel bad in any way.
I truly do wish you luck with this process 0 -
TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »You keep responding to posts, but specifically ignoring the ones asking if you'd be willing to open your diary for more tailored advice. In my opinion that screams information is being omitted. If you don't want to open it up, the least you could do is say you don't want to do so. In any case, you're eating at a deficit on paper, but not for your body, as stated earlier in the thread.
and there was me thinking i was invisible!!! :flowerforyou:
As stated, I will edit my post to state I am not opening my diary but to me, "Open your diary" is not helpful advice. In fact, it's more like a command. I'm not comfortable with it and it has nothing to do with what I am eating. I keep private notes in there and am just not comfortable having it open to the public. To me it's like an actual diary. It's not a big deal. No need to scrutinize.
asking you to open your diary is very good advice, because its the best way for people to be able to help you based on what you're consuming....
if you don't want to, that's fine, but people are limited in what they can offer as suggestions without that information.
I understand and that's fine. Never said it was bad advice.
you said it wasn't helpful advice... it really is!
I meant the way it was commanded without even offering any alternative advice. It was just "open your diary" and that was the end. People should be able to offer advice based on the details I gave them. As I explained to someone else, I have gone through weeks and months of food diaries with a nutritionist and streamlined my food already (on a weekly basis). I don't feel I need help in this area and it seems useless to go over it yet again because I've lost 70lbs. What I am eating is obviously not the issue because I have lost a ton of weight already and my diet hasn't changed. It has to be something else. I am even hesitant to say it's errors with food logging because again, my diet has not changed since I lost that 70lbs (all last year) and I have been using MFP to track this entire time. I'm not eating differently. That's why I want to get to the bottom of this and why I want suggestions that do not have to do with what food I am eating specifically. What I am eating is very basic and bland like most people trying to lose weight are eating.0 -
carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »You keep responding to posts, but specifically ignoring the ones asking if you'd be willing to open your diary for more tailored advice. In my opinion that screams information is being omitted. If you don't want to open it up, the least you could do is say you don't want to do so. In any case, you're eating at a deficit on paper, but not for your body, as stated earlier in the thread.
and there was me thinking i was invisible!!! :flowerforyou:
As stated, I will edit my post to state I am not opening my diary but to me, "Open your diary" is not helpful advice. In fact, it's more like a command. I'm not comfortable with it and it has nothing to do with what I am eating. I keep private notes in there and am just not comfortable having it open to the public. To me it's like an actual diary. It's not a big deal. No need to scrutinize.
asking you to open your diary is very good advice, because its the best way for people to be able to help you based on what you're consuming....
if you don't want to, that's fine, but people are limited in what they can offer as suggestions without that information.
I understand and that's fine. Never said it was bad advice.
you said it wasn't helpful advice... it really is!
I meant the way it was commanded without even offering any alternative advice. It was just "open your diary" and that was the end. People should be able to offer advice based on the details I gave them. As I explained to someone else, I have gone through weeks and months of food diaries with a nutritionist and streamlined my food already (on a weekly basis). I don't feel I need help in this area and it seems useless to go over it yet again because I've lost 70lbs. What I am eating is obviously not the issue because I have lost a ton of weight already and my diet hasn't changed. It has to be something else. I am even hesitant to say it's errors with food logging because again, my diet has not changed since I lost that 70lbs (all last year) and I have been using MFP to track this entire time. I'm not eating differently. That's why I want to get to the bottom of this and why I want suggestions that do not have to do with what food I am eating specifically. What I am eating is very basic and bland like most people trying to lose weight are eating.
More advice is not being offered because you've shot down most advice and said it doesn't work. We're running out of ideas. Especially since you said you're not willing to reduce calories further or adjust things without consulting your nutritionist.
Since that's the case, I suggest you follow the advice of your nutritionist.
Good luck with your weight loss.2 -
One last question if you will... and I may have missed this..
But how many times in the 70 pounds lost have you adjusted the calories goal in MFP? For example every 10 pounds or 20, etc..2 -
carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »carnivalnights wrote: »TavistockToad wrote: »Maxematics wrote: »You keep responding to posts, but specifically ignoring the ones asking if you'd be willing to open your diary for more tailored advice. In my opinion that screams information is being omitted. If you don't want to open it up, the least you could do is say you don't want to do so. In any case, you're eating at a deficit on paper, but not for your body, as stated earlier in the thread.
and there was me thinking i was invisible!!! :flowerforyou:
As stated, I will edit my post to state I am not opening my diary but to me, "Open your diary" is not helpful advice. In fact, it's more like a command. I'm not comfortable with it and it has nothing to do with what I am eating. I keep private notes in there and am just not comfortable having it open to the public. To me it's like an actual diary. It's not a big deal. No need to scrutinize.
asking you to open your diary is very good advice, because its the best way for people to be able to help you based on what you're consuming....
if you don't want to, that's fine, but people are limited in what they can offer as suggestions without that information.
I understand and that's fine. Never said it was bad advice.
you said it wasn't helpful advice... it really is!
I meant the way it was commanded without even offering any alternative advice. It was just "open your diary" and that was the end. People should be able to offer advice based on the details I gave them. As I explained to someone else, I have gone through weeks and months of food diaries with a nutritionist and streamlined my food already (on a weekly basis). I don't feel I need help in this area and it seems useless to go over it yet again because I've lost 70lbs. What I am eating is obviously not the issue because I have lost a ton of weight already and my diet hasn't changed. It has to be something else. I am even hesitant to say it's errors with food logging because again, my diet has not changed since I lost that 70lbs (all last year) and I have been using MFP to track this entire time. I'm not eating differently. That's why I want to get to the bottom of this and why I want suggestions that do not have to do with what food I am eating specifically. What I am eating is very basic and bland like most people trying to lose weight are eating.
More advice is not being offered because you've shot down most advice and said it doesn't work. We're running out of ideas. Especially since you said you're not willing to reduce calories further or adjust things without consulting your nutritionist.
Since that's the case, I suggest you follow the advice of your nutritionist.
Good luck with your weight loss.
I never said I wasn't willing to reduce calories...? All I said was that I've tried it did not previously make a difference. Doesn't mean I can't try again, which I did say I would do. To get into more detail, I decreased my calories by 300/day. When I inquired why the scale wasn't really moving, I was told (also by this community on MFP) that I wasn't eating enough. So I put my calories back to 300 increase, which is how they were when I lost all the weight. It makes sense to decrease my calories as I lose more weight. But when I did that, I was losing weight so slowly even though I was also exercising on top of that when I was very much exceeding my deficit (as it has been calculated on here - which people are saying could be the issue, that it's inaccurate).0 -
I'm sad for you that you have to eat 'basic and bland' food, but it's not what 'most' people are doing at all!
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Jillian Michaels is out to sell her product, which pretty much means she does not know what she's talking about.
Wanting to sell her product doesn't make her ignorant. She has some things to offer, even if not 100 percent of what she says is helpful. Her programs are sound and she's helped a lot of people lose weight.
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A couple of questions:
How do you have your activity level set up (active, sedentary, etc...)?
When you log your entries, are you scanning barcodes? Comparing entries against what's on the package? Are you logging everything by grams? When you say you weigh "everything", do you mean every bite (including slices of bread, crackers, pasta, etc..)? I ask because sometimes people say they weigh everything, only to find out they really aren't.
Do you use the recipe builder for recipes, or just select a best guess from the database?
How do you estimate calorie burns from exercise?
How many calories does MFP have set up for you?
Have you started or stopped any new medications recently?0 -
OP, how much of your calorie intake is from foods with added sugar (refined sugar, corn syrup, etc)?0
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OP, those who have asked you to open your diary would be looking for common logging errors, not nutrition advice. These would be specific to MFP, not something your nutritionist could help you with.
Regardless, weight loss/gain is calories in/calories out. If you are logging accurately, hitting your calorie goal, and not losing for several months, then your calorie goal is wrong, and you need to eat less.
One more thing I wanted to put out there, not to undermine your nutritionist, but "nutritionist" is a pretty meaningless title - anyone can call themselves that, there is no credentialing or education required.
Anyway, I'm really sorry you're struggling and hope you get the scale moving again soon. Good luck!3 -
If she was struggling to stay at her calorie goal because she was hungry, it would be a reasonable question. But it would not affect her weight loss if she is sticking to her calorie goal.1 -
If she was struggling to stay at her calorie goal because she was hungry, it would be a reasonable question. But it would not affect her weight loss if she is sticking to her calorie goal.
Yes or no...do you think insulin affects weight loss?
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I am taking one last stab and moving on after this..
I made a suggestion to see if you might want to work with someone one on one off the thread, no answer.
I also wanted to know how many times or at what weight increment were the calorie GOALS were adjusted in MFP? If any?
Apart from these question, in light of the last post made, how long was this increase in 300 calories done? And was it around or after or before a calorie adjustment GOAL was done? I am looking for something to clue me in further as to what may be happening apart from every single thing that was mentioned already tried and failed.
Because if a person stalls for 4 -5 months, they some how have slowly crept back up in their maintenance calories which is easy to do. I am not concerned with the exercise calories at all at this point in the deficit equation.
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You said you use a Fitbit, and then you are also logging your workouts on MFP? You may be double counting your exercise burn...if you are logging your exercise on MFP you may want to just log them onto Fitbit and have the Fitbit feed over to MFP.2
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Something you've written stood out to me:
"When I decreased my calories because I wasn't eating enough, I was losing too slowly. When I was told to increase them, the scale stopped moving all together. "
You went into more detail here:
"I never said I wasn't willing to reduce calories...? All I said was that I've tried it did not previously make a difference. Doesn't mean I can't try again, which I did say I would do. To get into more detail, I decreased my calories by 300/day. When I inquired why the scale wasn't really moving, I was told (also by this community on MFP) that I wasn't eating enough. So I put my calories back to 300 increase, which is how they were when I lost all the weight. It makes sense to decrease my calories as I lose more weight. But when I did that, I was losing weight so slowly even though I was also exercising on top of that when I was very much exceeding my deficit (as it has been calculated on here - which people are saying could be the issue, that it's inaccurate). "
To lose half a pound per week, one needs to decrease their normal calorie amount to the tune of 250 calories per day. It sounds like that 300 calorie decrease was doing exactly what it should have been doing, as half a pound per week is a pretty slow rate of loss, especially given your stats. That decrease gave you a slight deficit and when you increased by 300 again, you went back to maintenance, hence the stall for six months. That being said, you should cut daily by ~300 again to lose 0.5 pounds per week, cut by ~600 for a pound per week, cut by ~1200 for 1.5 pounds per week, or cut by ~1500 for 2 pounds per week.5 -
One last question if you will... and I may have missed this..
But how many times in the 70 pounds lost have you adjusted the calories goal in MFP? For example every 10 pounds or 20, etc..
About every 20-25lbs. As noted to auddii, when I decreased by 300 calories last time I was told that I wasn't eating enough calories and put them back to where they were. Neither was obviously the right decision.0 -
I understand your frustration - I've had some long plateaus as well and was never able to get useful advice from other MFP users, nor from doctors. A true plateau is similar to what you described... there are fluctuations, but despite eating at a deficit, you are not losing weight. Likewise, eating at a surplus will not cause you to gain weight.
My suggestion is to first find out for certain that you are in a true plateau and that you are not eating at maintenance inadvertently (as many previous comments suggest). To determine this, increase calorie intake significantly for the next 3-4 weeks. Don't change anything else (especially workouts / CO). If possible, increase by 2K calories per day. If you're eating at maintenance today (i.e. your BMR is miscalculated to be higher than it really is), then you should start gaining weight quickly. If you are in a true plateau, on the other hand, your weight will not significantly change. You will notice greater day-to-day fluctuations, but it will fluctuate up and down around the same number. Once you have either confirmed you are in a true plateau or found that your BMR is miscalculated, then you can take the next step.
During my longest plateau (5 months), I did the above for 6 weeks and started by increasing calories on average about 3K per day - ended up about 500 over as I gradually decreased the surplus (due to unrelated reasons, I became more satisfied with less food). Weight didn't change, except daily fluctuations became larger. There was even a point where my weight increased 9 lbs. within less than 4 hours. But since I was hovering around the same weight, I could confidently say that I was in a true plateau (because a sharp CI increase did not lead to sustained weight gain, just as a deficit was not resulting in a sustained weight loss).0 -
If she was struggling to stay at her calorie goal because she was hungry, it would be a reasonable question. But it would not affect her weight loss if she is sticking to her calorie goal.
Yes or no...do you think insulin affects weight loss?
Not directly, no. If you have high blood sugar but control calories eaten so you are in a deficit, you will lose weight. Please don't hijack this nice woman's thread.4 -
OP, I understand you do not intend to open your diary. I skimmed thru the posts, and don't see (may have overlooked) any indication of what your current calorie intake goal is set to? In other words, how much are you logging per day on average?
You did mention use of a food scale. How aggressively do you use it? For all solids? For some solids? Do you account for cooking oils, condiments, beverages? It is worth mentioning that single items like slices of bread, pieces of fruit, etc. should still be weighed as they are not all the same size.
Then there is also the likely possibility that your body's metabolism does not work like the average person's. The average person is what BMR, etc. charts are based on. Have you had thyroid levels checked? (Did not see mention in the thread but again, I may have overlooked.) Your metabolism is also affected by your ratio of fat to muscle. Muscle burns more. Do you strength train? If not, getting started on that could be a good idea. It won't miraculously result in a scale drop, and might even show an increase due to water weight in the short term, but the long term results could mean good things for your body composition and increased burn ultimately.3 -
I understand the math and sentiment behind "Starvation mode is a myth" and "eat more lose more doesn't work."
That said? Anecdotally, my three biggest single weight drops have come after a period where I take a break for a week or so. Not binging, not eating above maintenance, not stopping counting entirely - just relaxing on creating a large deficit. I did have my RMR tested a few years back while eating on a deficit and it was a good 15% lower than the calculators told me it "should" be. That was when I took my first break and ate at maintenance for a couple of weeks, and when I came back to eating at a deficit I lost more weight more easily than previously.
Probably what happened each time was a bit of metabolism bounce-back and a *lot* of renewed energy for accurate tracking and sticking to plan after my breaks.1 -
carnivalnights wrote: »One last question if you will... and I may have missed this..
But how many times in the 70 pounds lost have you adjusted the calories goal in MFP? For example every 10 pounds or 20, etc..
About every 20-25lbs. As noted to auddii, when I decreased by 300 calories last time I was told that I wasn't eating enough calories and put them back to where they were. Neither was obviously the right decision.
This helps me some. All of this is what I would like to investigate further in my thought processes. I now need to formulate my next questions.. if you will..
1) How many calories were you eating prior to the 300 calorie decrease... what was your weight?
2) How many calories were you eating when you increased back up to 300... what was your weight?
3) How close to or around the next calorie adjustment from the last 25 pounds was this done.. what was your weight?
4) How many calories do you eat now?
5) Are there any exercise calories that need to be reviewed and/or increase in exercise volume or intensity etc. At any time when the stall happened?
There is a solution to this, I am looking to put together the history here without looking at the diary.. Although this is gonna be very difficult to do..
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If she was struggling to stay at her calorie goal because she was hungry, it would be a reasonable question. But it would not affect her weight loss if she is sticking to her calorie goal.
Yes or no...do you think insulin affects weight loss?
Not directly, no. If you have high blood sugar but control calories eaten so you are in a deficit, you will lose weight. Please don't hijack this nice woman's thread.
She's 100 pounds overweight and has tried everything and nothing has worked for the past six months and is seeking advice, is it really so wrong to suggest that maybe she cut back on sugar? Really? Maybe you don't believe it and maybe it won't work for everyone, but it's worked for many people I know personally. And maybe she doesn't eat foods with added sugar or maybe she fits those into her goals and doesn't want to or need to. But it's not hijacking the thread to suggest it and it's not your place to shoot the suggestion down...it's hers.1 -
Make sure your scale is accurate, yesterday I realized the scale I had at my desk was off by 20% (free cheap analog scale). BTW the scale is in the trash!1
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I cannot offer any more advice than I offered in your last thread, but as someone giving advice here often I'm very concerned about your insistence that people here told you to raise your calories last time. I see a couple of people suggesting you may need some of your workout calories, but they all added caveats and addendums. Were some posts deleted or did you receive PMs about it? That's just such poor advice and usually is countered right away.
Either way, I'm sure you're very frustrated by all of this and we're all just guessing at this point. It might be time to find a new nutritionist (preferably a registered dietitian) if the person you're working with can't help you any more.3 -
lujako makes a good point - confirm the accuracy of the scale you use for body weight AND weighing food from time to time. Replace batteries and calibrate.1
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