THIS is why HRMs have limited use for tracking calories
Replies
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An interesting and somewhat amusing way to gauge your fitness improvement is to look at how many calories your HRM says you've burned while running 2 miles at a given speed at two different points in time. As your fitness improves, the calorie readout will go down even though actual calories burned don't.
This assumes you're at a constant weight, which may not be true.
I know my calorie burn has decreased as from my biggest size (well over 300lbs) compared to now I really can't get the same burns I used to (sigh lol)
Couple of things:
1. There should be some compensation from the fact that your increased fitness level allows you to work harder. Example: even at my heaviest, I was reasonably fit cardiovascularly. At one point in my wt loss, I set a PR for the time it took to burn 1000 calories on the treadmill. But my initial loss was so rapid (30 lb in first 2 mos--being out of work and having nothing to do but plan meals and work out helps a lot) that, even though I was running faster, I couldn't get within 2 min of that mark for weeks. Finally, I got my fitness/endurance level up to a point where, even though I was 60 pounds lighter, I smashed through the old record and beat it by 4+ minutes. Not everyone can get to that point, but it just shows you can offset the weight loss, at least partly.
2. You don't need as much of a deficit. By that I mean that it's a matter of scale. Losing weight at a smaller rate will be as noticeable on a smaller body as losing weight at a faster rate was on a larger one.
3. You don't weigh 300 lbs anymore -- that's a victory in itself! :drinker:0 -
The number on the scale is the only thing that matters.
That's literally horrifying. I think you need to take a step back and seriously reassess your goals now. If you don't, you will lose all the weight, then look at your ill health and thin but flabby body and think "how the heck did this happen, and how do I fix it?"0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong. 0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
I'm with you Peeaanuut.
Back to 1209 cals and just doing what I can for cardio and hoping it all evens out somewhere. I mean, I know that my Polar isn't exact...but I hate that my husband spent $90 on something that is apparently absolutely useless for losing weight.
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so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Not gonna lie, that comes across as rationalization. Excuses to avoid something strange and new and therefore frightening. Do what you like though.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
So you don't think building muscle is important and will assist you in your weight loss goals?0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Why one extreme or another? Everything is an estimate, your suggested calorie intake, your calorie burns, even the food you eat no matter how diligently you log. This isn't about exact numbers. Being 100 calories over isn't going to derail your success.
Plenty of people has lost weight just fine using MFP estimates or their HRM. Some will subtract a certain percent of their estimates, like -20% or even half (I always suggest starting out win the higher number). If you don't see any change in the scale after several (ie more than 4 or 5), you adjust downwards.
The point of this thread wasnt to say HRMs are useless. It's just facts about how they work. Even if they are inaccurate, by eating only a portion of the calories, you should be fine.
No need to toss everything out.0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
So you don't think building muscle is important and will assist you in your weight loss goals?
"The number on the scale is the only thing that matters."0 -
then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.
Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??
Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.
He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.
Is this a joke or troll or something?
Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?
No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.
I'm with you Peeaanuut.
Back to 1209 cals and just doing what I can for cardio and hoping it all evens out somewhere. I mean, I know that my Polar isn't exact...but I hate that my husband spent $90 on something that is apparently absolutely useless for losing weight.
No one said HRMs are useless at all.0 -
I have been trying to make this point to many ever since I started using my BodyBugg and realized that the HRM I had before that was WAY off. No one listens!! They think that the HRM is accurate for all day wear. It might now even be accurate at all if it doesn't also monitor your VO2 max.0
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Because if one loses weight on just cardio and calorie deficit, a higher amount of lean muscle tissue will be lost compared to one who does lift. And losing lean muscle tissue results in a lower metabolic rate and reduction of strength.so from what I am understanding, why should I even bother to do weight lifting when I am trying to lose weight? I cant track the calories so unless I eat half of what I usually do on a lift day, I will come out above on my calories and the whole thing is wasted. So in other words, my hundred dollar purchase was a waste. Great.
A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
But how do I know how much I need to lift to burn what I have eaten? If I dont know that, than I am just going to gain even more?
I might suggest you consider going to more of an "intake-based" strategy rather than trying to precisely balance intake and output.
The "eat back your exercise calories" idea is driven in large part by a fear of "starvation mode" --i.e. the idea that if you eat too little your body will slow its metabolism and store fat. It is exacerbated by the fact that many people immediately set their intake at 1200 calories a day, thinking that will promote more rapid loss.
If you go to a professional--ie. a registered dietitian--they will recommend eating at a higher avg daily intake --anywhere from 1400-2000 calories based on weight--and not counting exercise calories at all.
That way you just have to monitor intake. And maybe add a little snack post-workout if you did an extra-hard session.
I describe it a little more here:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/why-i-don-t-count-exercise-calories-1148730 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Not gonna lie, that comes across as rationalization. Excuses to avoid something strange and new and therefore frightening. Do what you like though.
Rationalization? Because you've been here when they throw water bottles at us, moo at us, and shoved my friend down and she had to get stitches...right? Yeah. I'm making up reasons to not get pushed around and physically hurt by the weight room jerks...you got me there. Whatever. I don't know why I'm even here. People are so rude to each other on here. So much for support..,eh?0 -
Otherwise watching porn would help you lose weight.0
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Thank you for posting this, it's very useful. One question regarding the chart though: if I read it correctly, I'd assume I could get a better estimate for my calories burnt during e.g. weight lifting by using a factor of 20-25% on my HRM's reading. Is that correct or does it vary so much that it's practically useless?
The strength workout number is just a sample of some data I have pulled from other studies. It is generally representative of the VO2 for that activity, but actual VO2 can vary quite a bit due to differences in individual programs. That variability is why there is no way for a chart or table to give a general calories burned number for resistance training. So, no, that number is not a consistent number you could use in all instances.
Thank you for the reply. I was suspecting the answer would be something like that. I've been wondering though, what do TDEE calculators use to estimate caloric needs? Or the value that MFP gives for 'weight training'? Where does it come from?
[Sorry for asking so many questions, I know nothing about these things and seeing that you know your stuff, I'm trying to get as much info as I can!]0 -
Let me repeat, as I have a million times in the past:
No one is saying that weight lifting doesn't burn calories--all that has ever been said is that, due to the variations in lifting styles and programs, there is no convenient way to QUANTIFY that burn. If you look at some of the research by CB Scott from the Univ of Southern Maine, he suggests that even if you use a metabolic cart to measure actual VO2, you still are only measuring a small portion of the calorie burn.
It's just that HRMs cannot measure strength training calories because HRMs are designed to ONLY estimate calories burned via the "aerobic" metabolic pathway--and heavy weight training only burns a fraction of its calories using that pathway.
When you look at "real life" studies -- i.e. those studies that measure what actually happens to a body over the course of time--the evidence is overwhelming that strength training plays a crucial role in both immediate fat loss and long-term maintenance of fat loss.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Not gonna lie, that comes across as rationalization. Excuses to avoid something strange and new and therefore frightening. Do what you like though.
Rationalization? Because you've been here when they throw water bottles at us, moo at us, and shoved my friend down and she had to get stitches...right? Yeah. I'm making up reasons to not get pushed around and physically hurt by the weight room jerks...you got me there. Whatever. I don't know why I'm even here. People are so rude to each other on here. So much for support..,eh?
This happened in the gym?0 -
I have 3 different calorie trackers: a HRM and two pedometers. I just don't know what to believe
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Thank you for posting this, it's very useful. One question regarding the chart though: if I read it correctly, I'd assume I could get a better estimate for my calories burnt during e.g. weight lifting by using a factor of 20-25% on my HRM's reading. Is that correct or does it vary so much that it's practically useless?
The strength workout number is just a sample of some data I have pulled from other studies. It is generally representative of the VO2 for that activity, but actual VO2 can vary quite a bit due to differences in individual programs. That variability is why there is no way for a chart or table to give a general calories burned number for resistance training. So, no, that number is not a consistent number you could use in all instances.
Thank you for the reply. I was suspecting the answer would be something like that. I've been wondering though, what do TDEE calculators use to estimate caloric needs? Or the value that MFP gives for 'weight training'? Where does it come from?
[Sorry for asking so many questions, I know nothing about these things and seeing that you know your stuff, I'm trying to get as much info as I can!]
MFP -- or any other activity database -- uses a combination of sources. For some activities--walking and running for example--there are simple, well-validated equations for estimating energy expenditure. For others--and this would include weight training--they draw from various compendiums of energy estimates for casual and occupational activity that vary WIDELY in their accuracy.
Here is a little more information:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Azdak/view/estimating-calories-activity-databases-1980410 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Addressing the bolded.
You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.
I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.0 -
Let me repeat, as I have a million times in the past:
No one is saying that weight lifting doesn't burn calories--all that has ever been said is that, due to the variations in lifting styles and programs, there is no convenient way to QUANTIFY that burn. If you look at some of the research by CB Scott from the Univ of Southern Maine, he suggests that even if you use a metabolic cart to measure actual VO2, you still are only measuring a small portion of the calorie burn.
It's just that HRMs cannot measure strength training calories because HRMs are designed to ONLY estimate calories burned via the "aerobic" metabolic pathway--and heavy weight training only burns a fraction of its calories using that pathway.
When you look at "real life" studies -- i.e. those studies that measure what actually happens to a body over the course of time--the evidence is overwhelming that strength training plays a crucial role in both immediate fat loss and long-term maintenance of fat loss.
as a regular guy without a multi million dollar study on me, how do I even come close to showing any progress from weight lifting other than the scale? It doesnt make me feel better. It makes me hurt. So how I feel is not a good indication. It wont help me lose in size because i will bulk up, so thats out. Numbers are are all there ther is and if the only number is the scale, then that is no good. I really just need to know how I can know if its working. otherwise its all for nothing.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Addressing the bolded.
You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.
I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.
I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.0 -
Let me repeat, as I have a million times in the past:
No one is saying that weight lifting doesn't burn calories--all that has ever been said is that, due to the variations in lifting styles and programs, there is no convenient way to QUANTIFY that burn. If you look at some of the research by CB Scott from the Univ of Southern Maine, he suggests that even if you use a metabolic cart to measure actual VO2, you still are only measuring a small portion of the calorie burn.
It's just that HRMs cannot measure strength training calories because HRMs are designed to ONLY estimate calories burned via the "aerobic" metabolic pathway--and heavy weight training only burns a fraction of its calories using that pathway.
When you look at "real life" studies -- i.e. those studies that measure what actually happens to a body over the course of time--the evidence is overwhelming that strength training plays a crucial role in both immediate fat loss and long-term maintenance of fat loss.
as a regular guy without a multi million dollar study on me, how do I even come close to showing any progress from weight lifting other than the scale? It doesnt make me feel better. It makes me hurt. So how I feel is not a good indication. It wont help me lose in size because i will bulk up, so thats out. Numbers are are all there ther is and if the only number is the scale, then that is no good. I really just need to know how I can know if its working. otherwise its all for nothing.
Strength, body fat percentage, bone density scan, lipid profile, blood pressure. All of these will improve, or improve to a greater degree, with strength training than without.
It will also help you lose weight faster. Muscle mass burns more calories at rest than fat mass. So let's say you lose 100 pounds. If you preserve your current lean mass through strength training and lose 100 pounds of pure fat, your BMR will be considerably higher than if you lose 100 pounds without strength training, and lose 20 lbs of muscle and 80 lbs of fat.
You're just making excuses. Adding strength training to your program will help you long-term in a myriad of ways, including how much weight you lose.
Furthermore, if you lose 100 lbs of fat while strength training you will LOOK much better than if you lost 100 lbs without it. 200 lbs at 20% body fat is much smaller and firmer than 200 lbs at 30% body fat.0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Addressing the bolded.
You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.
I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.
I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.
Then report them. Again, it goes with why let them keep you down. You have a choice. Be a victim and let them win or be a fighter and a survivor.
Also, she can't come up with any other solutions? Go to a gym off base? Slowly buy her own equipment? Look up programs that don't require equipment like NerdFitness, Convict Conditioning or You Are Your Own Gym? Use gallon jugs, etc? No, still going to go with "if you want it bad enough, you'll fight for it and figure it out."0 -
I read most of your post. I agree that HRMs are only good for aerobic activities and not anaerobic activity. Due to your blood pressure rising during anaerobic giving a false reading on the HRM. But, I do disagree with the part I have quoted above. What you are basically saying is that a fitness "expert" is an idiot if they say you can gain cardiovascular benefit from weight training with shorter breaks, thus making your work faster/harder. I disagree with you. I am not saying that HRMs are accurate to measure weight training sessions but I am saying that you can receive cardiovascular benefit from circuits or supersets due to you constantly moving and moving quickly, therefore increasing the heart rate. Any increase in your heart rate like that is benefiting you cardiovascularly. Now, will it make you able to run a marathon? No. But doesn't every little bit count?
I am not saying they are "an idiot" (although many of them are)--I am saying they are wrong.
Your are substituting opinion for fact, which is always dangerous. Plus you are mixing terms without understanding the different physiological mechanisms underlying each.
Now that's a completely different topic and one which I have commented on numerous times, so I don't really want to hijack my own thread. But, suffice to say that there is a strength component and a cardio component to all exercise movements. Where that movement sits on the continuum between "pure cardio" and "pure strength" will determine what type of results you get.
Manipulating a strength-oriented routine to try and make it more "cardio-y" denigrates the effectiveness of the strength workout and doesn't provide much in the way of cardio benefits. This has been demonstrated numerous time (including the study from which I got my "21% of VO2max" bar for the graph I showed. You can't make a pure strength program into a cardio program, just as you can't do "strength training" on an elliptical (another claim sometimes made by stupid trainers).
Doing a "circuit training" program that consists of lighter weights and other types of hybrid movements WILL result in cardio training -- but it also won't provide the same increases in strength/mass as a lifting program--and it won't result in the same level of cardio training as a pure "cardio-based" program either. And finally, as again shown in the graph, it will result in an excess HR response that will throw off your HRM calorie readings.
And finally, as I have written about numerous times, the HR increase that occurs during strength training is due to a completely different mechanism than during cardio--so a heart rate of 130 during cardio will result in cardio training, but a heart rate of 130 during strength training will not.
None of these are "good" or "bad" --they just are. And it's something that EVERY "trainer" should know on day 1 of their job or they have no business charging people money.
I really don't appreciate you telling me that I have no understanding of "the different physiological mechanisms underlying each" when you have no idea what my background or education is. And I'm confused as to why you just said what I stated was an opinion when you actually agreed with and just restated what I said and called it fact. I never said you could/should turn a strength training routine into cardio. I said "weight training" which is not the same as "strength training," so maybe you should not mix up your terms. I NEVER stated you could/shoulder turn a "pure strength" routine into a cardio routine. I actually never mentioned strength training and also never advocated using it as a means of obtained a cardio workout.
Also, you told me I was wrong regarding the heart rate increase during weight (well, you said strength) versus cardio, yet again, you agreed with me when you stated "the HR increase during strength training is due to a completely different mechanism than during cardio." The only difference in what you and I said was that I actually explained what that "different machanism" was and you didn't.
Maybe this is a miscommunication here. But from what I saw on your OP, you basically said YOUR OPINION is that you cannot get a cardio benefit from lifting weights just because you "lift weights faster." I'm telling you I disagree with that. That it is possible to get SOME cardiovascular benefit from shorter rests between sets, circuit training, or supersets. Will it affect the amount of strength you gain? Probably so. But that is irrelevant in this topic because that isn't what you were posting about. You were posting about HRMs and how they aren't accurate for weight training. I agree with that statement.
It's interesting how you gave all of this information that was initially irrelevant to both of our original posts..... I'm not sure how you could've read that much into what I said to come up with some of the responses you had for me.... maybe you just want to argue?0 -
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Addressing the bolded.
You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.
I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.
I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.
Were they physically attacked in the gym? If not, what does this have to do with the gym?0 -
Good info...0
-
so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?
^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?
Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.
Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.
Addressing the bolded.
You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.
I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.
I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.
Were they physically attacked in the gym? If not, what does this have to do with the gym?
She said above that her friend got pushed down and needed stitches and she gets water bottles thrown at her and mooed at. If she reports it and works up the chain of command, they can remedy things. Or like I said in my other post above, figure out alternatives.0 -
Weight lifting will NOT cause you to bulk. Eating more food than you burn is what causes you to bulk.as a regular guy without a multi million dollar study on me, how do I even come close to showing any progress from weight lifting other than the scale? It doesnt make me feel better. It makes me hurt. So how I feel is not a good indication. It wont help me lose in size because i will bulk up, so thats out. Numbers are are all there ther is and if the only number is the scale, then that is no good. I really just need to know how I can know if its working. otherwise its all for nothing.
It's impossible to bulk up, lifting or not, if you're eating calorie deficit. So any other BS excuses you want to spout here?
BTW, lifting keeps lean mass. I look far better at 210lbs than most guys do at 180lbs or less. But who cares, only thing that matters is number on a scale right? Your appearance of looking athletic doesn't matter at all... kk, go back to your cardio bunny routine and enjoy losing a lot of muscle mass.0 -
Strength, body fat percentage, bone density scan, lipid profile, blood pressure. All of these will improve, or improve to a greater degree, with strength training than without.
It will also help you lose weight faster. Muscle mass burns more calories at rest than fat mass. So let's say you lose 100 pounds. If you preserve your current lean mass through strength training and lose 100 pounds of pure fat, your BMR will be considerably higher than if you lose 100 pounds without strength training, and lose 20 lbs of muscle and 80 lbs of fat.
You're just making excuses. Adding strength training to your program will help you long-term in a myriad of ways, including how much weight you lose.
Furthermore, if you lose 100 lbs of fat while strength training you will LOOK much better than if you lost 100 lbs without it. 200 lbs at 20% body fat is much smaller and firmer than 200 lbs at 30% body fat.
Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.
And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.0
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