THIS is why HRMs have limited use for tracking calories

Azdak

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Addressing the bolded.

You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.

I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.

When someone says "not insulting you", it's a given that what follows is something insulting.

jonnythan

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

peeaanuut

as a regular guy without a multi million dollar study on me, how do I even come close to showing any progress from weight lifting other than the scale? It doesnt make me feel better. It makes me hurt. So how I feel is not a good indication. It wont help me lose in size because i will bulk up, so thats out. Numbers are are all there ther is and if the only number is the scale, then that is no good. I really just need to know how I can know if its working. otherwise its all for nothing.

Weight lifting will NOT cause you to bulk. Eating more food than you burn is what causes you to bulk.

It's impossible to bulk up, lifting or not, if you're eating calorie deficit. So any other BS excuses you want to spout here?

BTW, lifting keeps lean mass. I look far better at 210lbs than most guys do at 180lbs or less. But who cares, only thing that matters is number on a scale right? Your appearance of looking athletic doesn't matter at all... kk, go back to your cardio bunny routine and enjoy losing a lot of muscle mass.

lets go to your calorie defecit comment. If there is no way to know what I burn during weight lifting, how do I know if I am going into calorie deficit? There is no measurable way, so its only a guess and most likely incorrect.

JustJennie1

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Addressing the bolded.

You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.

I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.

I think you keep missing the part where they said they were physically attacked.

Were they physically attacked in the gym? If not, what does this have to do with the gym?

She said above that her friend got pushed down and needed stitches and she gets water bottles thrown at her and mooed at. If she reports it and works up the chain of command, they can remedy things. Or like I said in my other post above, figure out alternatives.

I agree.

I find it hard to believe that the only gym available is the one on the base.

Azdak

Strength, body fat percentage, bone density scan, lipid profile, blood pressure. All of these will improve, or improve to a greater degree, with strength training than without.

It will also help you lose weight faster. Muscle mass burns more calories at rest than fat mass. So let's say you lose 100 pounds. If you preserve your current lean mass through strength training and lose 100 pounds of pure fat, your BMR will be considerably higher than if you lose 100 pounds without strength training, and lose 20 lbs of muscle and 80 lbs of fat.

You're just making excuses. Adding strength training to your program will help you long-term in a myriad of ways, including how much weight you lose.

Furthermore, if you lose 100 lbs of fat while strength training you will LOOK much better than if you lost 100 lbs without it. 200 lbs at 20% body fat is much smaller and firmer than 200 lbs at 30% body fat.

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

Circumference measurements can be a valuable way to track changes in body composition without relying totally on a scale.

ShannonMpls

Let me repeat, as I have a million times in the past:

No one is saying that weight lifting doesn't burn calories--all that has ever been said is that, due to the variations in lifting styles and programs, there is no convenient way to QUANTIFY that burn. If you look at some of the research by CB Scott from the Univ of Southern Maine, he suggests that even if you use a metabolic cart to measure actual VO2, you still are only measuring a small portion of the calorie burn.

It's just that HRMs cannot measure strength training calories because HRMs are designed to ONLY estimate calories burned via the "aerobic" metabolic pathway--and heavy weight training only burns a fraction of its calories using that pathway.

When you look at "real life" studies -- i.e. those studies that measure what actually happens to a body over the course of time--the evidence is overwhelming that strength training plays a crucial role in both immediate fat loss and long-term maintenance of fat loss.

as a regular guy without a multi million dollar study on me, how do I even come close to showing any progress from weight lifting other than the scale? It doesnt make me feel better. It makes me hurt. So how I feel is not a good indication. It wont help me lose in size because i will bulk up, so thats out. Numbers are are all there ther is and if the only number is the scale, then that is no good. I really just need to know how I can know if its working. otherwise its all for nothing.

I'm a regular girl without a multi million dollar study on me. As you can see from my ticker below, I've lost more than 130 pounds. I lost this weight in 15 months, and I've been maintaining for ten months.

The entire time I was losing weight, and while maintaining, weights have been my focus. I did cardio too, but I was never as dedicated to that as I was my weights. I did not bulk up - in fact, I physiologically could not bulk up because I was eating at a deficit. Even during maintenance I cannot bulk, because I do not eat at a surplus.

The scale reflected my work regularly. I lost an average of two pounds a week almost without exception. And that was with three hours a week of weight training, and maybe 2 of cardio.

I wore an HRM during exercise but that was mostly as a timer and to give me something to log here. But I never "ate exercise calories." In fact, I did - the whole damn time - what azdak suggested: ate a reasonable calorie amount that created a deficit, and ate a little more on workout days as needed/desired. While losing weight, that meant about 1600-2000 calories a day - the whole time. Now that I'm maintaining, I average around 2500 a day. I utterly ignore "exercise calories" (though I do log them).

It isn't that complicated. You don't need to know exactly what you burn from weight training to see its benefits. Keep track of what you eat. If you're losing weight at the rate desired, awesome - keep it up. If you're losing too fast or slowly, adjust your intake up or down. The proof in calories in and out doesn't come from an HRM, it comes from your weight and whether it goes up, down, or stays the same.

I, of course, cannot tell you if I might have lost more weight more quickly if I'd done only cardio instead of weights. What's done is done. But I can't argue with results. The scale reflected steady weight loss. Body comp tests reflected a favorable fat vs LBM loss. I lifted weights three times a week nearly without exception. Now I lift four times a week and do even less cardio. I love my body and I'm maintaining my weight loss quite easily. I cannot believe people are using azdak's post as a reason to avoid weight training.

AleciaG724

The OP and this thread answered so many of my HRM questions as a beginner.

I went to Sports Authority & the guy there knew absolutely nothing! I have been considering getting one for swimming - I'm assuming that would be considered steady-state cardio? Does anyone have a recommendation for one that can be used in water and also syncs with MFP? Currently I log my swimming as leisurely if I'm in my backyard pool, and freestyle light/moderate if I'm in a larger pool where I can swim laps. I only eat about half the calories MFP says I burn because it doesn't "feel" like I am burning that much. I'm losing a steady 2#/week so I was kind of holding off on getting the HRM until I either reach a plateau or join the gym in the fall. Then I will be swimming laps nearly every day since this is working for me now & I have a long way to go.

Thanks Azdak - good post and info!.

CoderGal

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Sorry to see this thread is constantly getting side tracked but wanted to throw out there that I have a plan for you. Go on the internet and google classified sites in your area. I managed to get free weights and a bench from kijiji for FREE. Yay free freeweights.

ILiftHeavyAcrylics

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Did you report this behavior? You can go above their heads. I workout in a military gym and it's always been fine.

peeaanuut

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

PikaKnight

so if there is no way of knowing without being hooked up to a million dollar oxygen machine, whats the point of counting calories and logging? Since we have no idea what we are burning, whats the point of any of this?

^^^this. Feeling pretty discouraged now. What the heck do I do now?

Lift weights, get adequate protein/fat/fiber, and monitor your calorie intake. This is probably the same thing you've been doing to lose your 18 pounds so far.

Definitely not lifting weights. First of all because I can't--the only gym I have access to is a military base gym and if a "fatty" comes anywhere near the weight room they get run off pretty quickly. Those meatheads would rather I die than try to better myself. Doesn't matter if I plead my case to the actual service members working...they feel the same way. Second, (partially due to the arses in the gym) I have no desire to lift big right now. I'd much rather just get the fat off. I'd rather be "skinny fat" than obese...so don't really care about that. I can do "low weight high rep" at home with Les Mills at least...though I'm sure I'll be laughed out of here for it.
I have been monitoring my calories...but if I don't know what I burn I don't know what I can eat. Guess it's back to guessing burn and eating rice cakes instead of killing it in cardio to eat with my family.
Gosh, this sucks! None of anything makes sense and it's just super frustrating to even try when every time I turn a corner I'm being told I'm doing it wrong.

Addressing the bolded.

You have a very low opinion of people it seems. Also, if you want to use what you said as an excuse, then even when you reach your goals you won't be happy. Not because of the lack of certain exercising, etc...but because you will still have that self-defeatism attitude and the insecurities that have you projecting on other people.

I highly doubt they'd rather you die than get in shape and even if they did, why are you giving in? When you decided to get healthy, wasn't that both a physical and mental thing? Wasn't that when you decided you needed to change and you weren't going to let anyone, including yourself, hold you back? Seems you need to do more than work on a workout program. Not insulting you, just being straight with you. If you want to succeed...go for it and stop whining and making excuses.

When someone says "not insulting you", it's a given that what follows is something insulting.

I'm not. I'm trying to help her realize that she can do the workouts she wants to if she really wants to. But thanks anyways.

CoderGal

The OP and this thread answered so many of my HRM questions as a beginner.

I went to Sports Authority & the guy there knew absolutely nothing! I have been considering getting one for swimming - I'm assuming that would be considered steady-state cardio? Does anyone have a recommendation for one that can be used in water and also syncs with MFP? Currently I log my swimming as leisurely if I'm in my backyard pool, and freestyle light/moderate if I'm in a larger pool where I can swim laps. I only eat about half the calories MFP says I burn because it doesn't "feel" like I am burning that much. I'm losing a steady 2#/week so I was kind of holding off on getting the HRM until I either reach a plateau or join the gym in the fall. Then I will be swimming laps nearly every day since this is working for me now & I have a long way to go.

Thanks Azdak - good post and info!.

From what I've seen they suck in water but as far as mine goes it's 'suppose' to work. I have a mio alpha. Its chest strap free. The first continuous chest strapless EKG accurate one as far as I know.

phjorg1

so from what I am understanding, why should I even bother to do weight lifting when I am trying to lose weight? I cant track the calories so unless I eat half of what I usually do on a lift day, I will come out above on my calories and the whole thing is wasted. So in other words, my hundred dollar purchase was a waste. Great.

to retain lean mass while eating in calorie deficit... and to improve posture, promote bone density, get stronger, improve athletic performance, maximize fat loss, etc etc. You can go on forever with all the benefits resistance training has. and if you're strong, then lifting will have a very large calorie burn too. Big lifters eat like horses to fuel their body.

You seem to be misunderstanding what the OP is saying. For lifting the HRM has basically zero bearing on calories. But that does NOT mean you're burning a low amount of calories. Just that a HRM is not able to track it. The rule is, the more you lift, the more you burn.

I am almost sure I know the answer to this but still want to front the question mainly out of curiosity, "You say Big Lifters eat like horses to fuel their body" so does this mean if these so called Big Lifters did wear a hrm would it be grossly under estimating there calorie burn or would it be over in its estimate??? If one was to use the MFP approach to weight loss instead of a more TDEE approach, how could they be accurate (or more accurate) in there logging and hitting there caloric intake when they have to eat back some or all of their calories burned when they maintain a lifting regimen of say 3 to 4 days a week of lifting....

This is correct. When you're doing say a 5 rep max, your blood pressure and heart rate will spike. And that spike is for the most part, somewhat constant. (I can't speak for all strength levels, but consider it a guideline). I mean, it's your HRmax for a reason. If more weight ment higher spikes, then your heart would eventually explode. So if you're squatting 135lbs for 5 reps and thats your max before failure cause you're new, then you'll see a somewhat high heartrate from your HRM during that. Now a year later, you're squatting 315lbs for 5 reps. Thats a large increase in weight, thus large increase in calories burned. But your HRM will still show similar spikes.

As a general rule, for your untrained person, or person doing a lot of light weight and high reps, or more circuit training type routines, or isolation movements like using weight machines or doing arm workouts. Consider a HRM reading as vastly overestimating. Once you do a routine like NROLFW or SL with full body compounds, and are at a beginner to intermediate level of strength, then it can prob be somewhat accurate. Not because of your heartrate per say, but the HRM will "luck out" in it's reporting being similar to lifting burns. Once you're advanced or higher strength levels, then your HRM will be underestimating prob. I know elite powerlifters easily pound back 10k calories a day for their training some days. And those are guys in weight classes so they can't get too fat. If lifting didn't burn a crapton of calories, you better believe that amount of food intake would not be good.

Azdak

I read most of your post. I agree that HRMs are only good for aerobic activities and not anaerobic activity. Due to your blood pressure rising during anaerobic giving a false reading on the HRM. But, I do disagree with the part I have quoted above. What you are basically saying is that a fitness "expert" is an idiot if they say you can gain cardiovascular benefit from weight training with shorter breaks, thus making your work faster/harder. I disagree with you. I am not saying that HRMs are accurate to measure weight training sessions but I am saying that you can receive cardiovascular benefit from circuits or supersets due to you constantly moving and moving quickly, therefore increasing the heart rate. Any increase in your heart rate like that is benefiting you cardiovascularly. Now, will it make you able to run a marathon? No. But doesn't every little bit count?

I am not saying they are "an idiot" (although many of them are)--I am saying they are wrong.

Your are substituting opinion for fact, which is always dangerous. Plus you are mixing terms without understanding the different physiological mechanisms underlying each.

Now that's a completely different topic and one which I have commented on numerous times, so I don't really want to hijack my own thread. But, suffice to say that there is a strength component and a cardio component to all exercise movements. Where that movement sits on the continuum between "pure cardio" and "pure strength" will determine what type of results you get.

Manipulating a strength-oriented routine to try and make it more "cardio-y" denigrates the effectiveness of the strength workout and doesn't provide much in the way of cardio benefits. This has been demonstrated numerous time (including the study from which I got my "21% of VO2max" bar for the graph I showed. You can't make a pure strength program into a cardio program, just as you can't do "strength training" on an elliptical (another claim sometimes made by stupid trainers).

Doing a "circuit training" program that consists of lighter weights and other types of hybrid movements WILL result in cardio training -- but it also won't provide the same increases in strength/mass as a lifting program--and it won't result in the same level of cardio training as a pure "cardio-based" program either. And finally, as again shown in the graph, it will result in an excess HR response that will throw off your HRM calorie readings.

And finally, as I have written about numerous times, the HR increase that occurs during strength training is due to a completely different mechanism than during cardio--so a heart rate of 130 during cardio will result in cardio training, but a heart rate of 130 during strength training will not.

None of these are "good" or "bad" --they just are. And it's something that EVERY "trainer" should know on day 1 of their job or they have no business charging people money.

I really don't appreciate you telling me that I have no understanding of "the different physiological mechanisms underlying each" when you have no idea what my background or education is. And I'm confused as to why you just said what I stated was an opinion when you actually agreed with and just restated what I said and called it fact. I never said you could/should turn a strength training routine into cardio. I said "weight training" which is not the same as "strength training," so maybe you should not mix up your terms. I NEVER stated you could/shoulder turn a "pure strength" routine into a cardio routine. I actually never mentioned strength training and also never advocated using it as a means of obtained a cardio workout.

Also, you told me I was wrong regarding the heart rate increase during weight (well, you said strength) versus cardio, yet again, you agreed with me when you stated "the HR increase during strength training is due to a completely different mechanism than during cardio." The only difference in what you and I said was that I actually explained what that "different machanism" was and you didn't.

Maybe this is a miscommunication here. But from what I saw on your OP, you basically said YOUR OPINION is that you cannot get a cardio benefit from lifting weights just because you "lift weights faster." I'm telling you I disagree with that. That it is possible to get SOME cardiovascular benefit from shorter rests between sets, circuit training, or supersets. Will it affect the amount of strength you gain? Probably so. But that is irrelevant in this topic because that isn't what you were posting about. You were posting about HRMs and how they aren't accurate for weight training. I agree with that statement.

It's interesting how you gave all of this information that was initially irrelevant to both of our original posts..... I'm not sure how you could've read that much into what I said to come up with some of the responses you had for me.... maybe you just want to argue?

It's posts like this that make me think I should start drinking earlier in the day.

JustJennie1

Strength, body fat percentage, bone density scan, lipid profile, blood pressure. All of these will improve, or improve to a greater degree, with strength training than without.

It will also help you lose weight faster. Muscle mass burns more calories at rest than fat mass. So let's say you lose 100 pounds. If you preserve your current lean mass through strength training and lose 100 pounds of pure fat, your BMR will be considerably higher than if you lose 100 pounds without strength training, and lose 20 lbs of muscle and 80 lbs of fat.

You're just making excuses. Adding strength training to your program will help you long-term in a myriad of ways, including how much weight you lose.

Furthermore, if you lose 100 lbs of fat while strength training you will LOOK much better than if you lost 100 lbs without it. 200 lbs at 20% body fat is much smaller and firmer than 200 lbs at 30% body fat.

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

No, the scale is NOT the only thing to use to measure progress. Why? Because if you're lifting weights then you're gaining muscle and the number on the scale is going to go UP.

Get yourself a tape measure and measure your waist, legs, hips etc. because while the scale might not move or might be going up you could be losing inches.

If you are that concerned about creating a deficit then just reset your weight loss goals and the amount of food you eat to factor in a 500 calorie deficit.

jonnythan

No, the scale is NOT the only thing to use to measure progress. Why? Because if you're lifting weights then you're gaining muscle and the number on the scale is going to go UP.

This is wrong and nonsensical. If you lift weights on a deficit, your weight will go down, period. Your lean mass will also not go up (although it may, slightly, at the beginning).

wareagle8706

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

Are you serious? First of all, good luck on gaining 100 lbs of muscle. I am going to go ahead and throw out "nearly impossible" to describe that.

Also, why don't you just lift weights and don't count it? That way you know you've burned some but don't quantify them therefore don't eat them back. Only count your "cardio" exercise calories then the weight lifting calories are just a "bonus."

You do know you burn calories walking from your car to your house? Car to your job? Walking around the grocery store? Do you quantify all of those as well as your cardio? I doubt you LOG all of that.... so... why not just treat weight lifting the same as those PLUS get the added benefits of weight lifting such as stronger bones, stronger muscles, and MORE fat burning power since muclse burns more calories AT REST than FAT does.

Ok, I'm officially done with you now.

SarahBeth0625

I just wear mine anyway. I haven't had any gain or loss and am maintaining. I figure I must be doing something right. The amount it gives me for a burn on the days I do strength training (which, I do start off with a 15 minute warmup on the elliptical and that is 150 cals) isn't an insane amount anyway. I would be concerned if I started to gain or something, but since I've been using this for long enough now and it's been okay, I will continue to wear my HRM, if anything just because I like to see my HR. When I do squats and lunges, it almost gets to the "cardio" range.

peeaanuut

ok, lets forget everything that was said before. Can someone answer my questions?

If I cannot put a number to the calories burned during lifting weights, how will I know I am in calorie deficit?
If I lose 100lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle, how is that better for me or my weight?

jonnythan

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

Lose 100 lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle? What are you talking about?

Strength training is the difference between losing 150 lbs of fat and 50 lbs of muscle vs 190 lbs of fat and 10 lbs of muscle.

Which do you think looks better? The 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass, or the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass?

CrankMeUp

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

nope.

you would NOT be the same size.

CrankMeUp

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

Lose 100 lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle? What are you talking about?

Strength training is the difference between losing 150 lbs of fat and 50 lbs of muscle vs 190 lbs of fat and 10 lbs of muscle.

Which do you think looks better? The 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass, or the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass?

exactly.

wareagle8706

It's posts like this that make me think I should start drinking earlier in the day.

That was seriously the best thing you could've possibly said. I appreciate you solidifying what I already thought by making this post. Makes my day better.

Have a good one.

__Di__

Is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? 400 lbs is 400 lbs. Muscle or fat, 400 lbs is 400 lbs. I have tried weight training before, I never lost one lb and in fact gained pounds. its what pushed me over 400 lbs up to 409 which was my heaviest.

And all of those tests above cost lots of money. So again, how can a regular guy measure? The only thing is the scale.

You have an endless variety of excuses planned out. No one here can convince you of something you are dead-set against.

So, by all means, do whatever you feel you need to do.

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

Use a tape measure to measure waist, chest, hips, thighs, arms, calfs.

If you are losing fat, but putting on muscle, if the scales remain the same, your measurements will be different to what they were.

Tape measure and scales are wonderful tools.

jonnythan

ok, lets forget everything that was said before. Can someone answer my questions?

If I cannot put a number to the calories burned during lifting weights, how will I know I am in calorie deficit?
If I lose 100lbs of fat and gain 100 lbs of muscle, how is that better for me or my weight?

Calculate your BMR. Add in an activity factor for non-exercise activity. If you're mostly sedentary, this is 1.2. Add in exercise calories, Subtract 20% from this number.

Bam. Calorie deficit.

Example: if you're 30 years old, 400 lbs, 5'10 and male, your BMR is around 3200. Sedentary lifestyle means 3840 normal daily calorie burn. Subtract 20% and you have a 3050 daily calorie goal. Add exercise back on top of that. Don't add calories for strength training (or add some small amount; I do about 50 calories per hour).

Done.

BTW, the 200 lb guy with 180 lbs of lean mass will have a waist several inches smaller than the 200 lb guy with 140 lbs of lean mass. The former guy will look strong; the latter will look fat.

phjorg1

It's posts like this that make me think I should start drinking earlier in the day.

That was seriously the best thing you could've possibly said. I appreciate you solidifying what I already thought by making this post. Makes my day better.

Have a good one.

In fairness I tried to comprehend what you were trying to say too. Read it three times and still have no clue..

Zaniejane

I've been looking for a reason to buy a heart rate monitor. I thought it might encourage me to power clean my house. Plus I like to buy new toys:(.

ShannonMpls

You simply just have no answers. is 100 lbs not 100 lbs? Im dead serious. they are equal. So if I lose 100 lbs in fat and gain 100 lbs in muscle, i will still weight 400 lbs. I will still be the same size. So there is no change right? All I am saying, is that if I cannot quantify the # of calories I burn, how will I lose any weight?

First of all, you think you'll gain 100 pounds of muscle? Spoiler alert: you won't.

Second, it's completely possible to quantify the number of calories you burn. Keep track of what you eat, including weighing/measuring food as appropriate. Keep track of your weight over a period of time. If your weight goes up, you are eating at a surplus. If your weight goes down, you are eating at a deficit. Adjust your intake to accomplish the result you are seeking.

It's all an estimate anyway. Nutrition labels on foods estimate, HRMs estimate, TDEE calculators estimate. Our bodies do not all follow formulas precisely. It's all an experiment that requires you to adjust based on real-life results.

Faulty HRM formulas are not an excuse to give up or eat an unnecessarily low calorie amount or avoid weight training because calories burned are hard to quantify.

jonnythan

I've been looking for a reason to buy a heart rate monitor. I thought it might encourage me to power clean my house. Plus I like to buy new toys:(.

Get a Fitbit instead. I have found them to be extremely encouraging and very accurate for anything that involves being on your feet.

steveofb

then it looks like weight lifting is useless for me. Thanks for the post.

Wait, so because you can't physically see how many calories you're burning using a HRM during weight lifting that means it's useless??

Heck, you're probably right, it's not light weight lifting helps to strengthen your existing muscle, build new muscle, helps burn calories, or help prevent osteoperosis. Yeah, you're definitely right. Weight lifting is useless.

He said it burns almost no calories. Which means I get to eat almost no calories. I didn't say it was useless for everyone. I said it was not for me. Learn to read.

Is this a joke or troll or something?

Your ONLY reason for exercise is to eat more? That's the absolute extent of it? You have no goals in the world other than eating more?

No my goal is to burn off more than I take in. If I barely burn from lifting weights than its not going to help me lose the weight. I don't want to be some muscle bound jerk. I just don't want to be a whale anymore. So again. It's good for some but appears not good for me.

I'm with you Peeaanuut.
Back to 1209 cals and just doing what I can for cardio and hoping it all evens out somewhere. I mean, I know that my Polar isn't exact...but I hate that my husband spent $90 on something that is apparently absolutely useless for losing weight.

This is getting out of hand.

Set how much you want to lose a week. Find your calorie goal to hit that number. Track everything you eat. Track calorie burn with your HRM. Eat back what you burn or don't if it is part of your deficit. If you lose weight corresponding to your calorie goal you got it right. If after a couple of weeks you are not losing the weight as fast as you want, you are just maintaining, or you are adding weight then something isn't adding up. Adjust your calorie goal again, then repeat. Eventually you will get it right.

MFP and HRMs are tools used to help you attain your goals. I can't count how many times I grab a wrench, put it on a bolt and find out it is the wrong size and have to go grab a different one. Weight loss is similar.

Track everything. It doesn't matter if they are just estimates. As long as you use the same estimates you can track to the path to your goal you want by adjusting. Yes, your HRM might be off by 50%, but you still have a number to use to adjust your caloric intake. Remember, weight loss isn't a constant thing. You are trying to hit a constantly moving target so having consistent information for your inputs is more important than worrying about being exact.

Just my two cents. --Steve