September (2016) Running Challenge

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  • dkabambe
    dkabambe Posts: 544 Member
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    dowelahmed wrote: »
    @dkabambe Definitely, the course is easy to follow and the surface is smooth so it's easy on the legs as well.

    Fantastic - will get my registration in!
  • Ohhim
    Ohhim Posts: 1,142 Member
    edited September 2016
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    Don't forget @Ohhim Out of the 24,000 they accept, there is a small percentage that get earmarked due to charity runners or other special situations. They probably have 24,000, but only 23,214 as time qualifiers.

    They accept 30,000. Not happy as they took 24,042 last year and said at least 80% of their acceptances this year would be qualifiers.

    At this point, I'm expecting a 6 minute cutoff next year with rising demand, and more average weather at qualifier races.
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    edited September 2016
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    Oh @Ohhim , I'm so sorry. Like Stan said, maybe 2018 and you guys can meet up.


    Email back from the Jenks race director. I'm in for the 5k! Not too late to register if anyone else in interested in an MFP group run/photo/pizza/maybe beer. You are guaranteed to beat me, get it while it lasts folks! Haha! I sure talk a lot of *kitten*!
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
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    Ohhim wrote: »
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    Don't forget @Ohhim Out of the 24,000 they accept, there is a small percentage that get earmarked due to charity runners or other special situations. They probably have 24,000, but only 23,214 as time qualifiers.

    They accept 30,000. Not happy as they took 24,042 last year and said at least 80% of their acceptances this year would be qualifiers.

    At this point, I'm expecting a 6 minute cutoff next year with rising demand, and more average weather at qualifier races.


    OK, I can see where you are coming from now. I agree that it doesn't make sense. I would be PO'd too.
  • AdrianChr92
    AdrianChr92 Posts: 567 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    So, I just read the Joe Friel article here on finding LTHR. Using that, I took a recent fast workout and found that the average HR for for the last 20 minutes of the 35 minute fast part was 175. For some reason, this seems high to me. Should I use this number for my LTHR?

    I am very scientific about finding my LT pace, NOT! I don't wear my HRM much because it makes a mark on my chest. Chafes me really bad. I know I probably should wear it more often though.

    I calculate my LT based upon race times (or even worse goal race pace). I don't suggest using goal pace though, screwed me up last year and as a result I think I ended up doing too much anaerobic work. LT is basically the pace you can race at and sustained if your race was about an hour long. Based upon that: The Cotton Row 10K is a recent race where the weather wasn't too bad: 44:57 or 7:14/mi pace. This race also has a very bad hill right about mile 4 which makes this race really hard to use, but none the less, it is the best data that I have to work with. I figure without that hill, maybe I could run it 2-5 minutes faster. Be conservative, 10K at 43:00 is 6:55 pace. I figure (roughly) if I slowed down to a 7:05 pace, I should be able to sustain that for an hour.

    Looking at McMillian's estimate: he puts my vLT at 7:06/mi. So that was close.

    @Stoshew71 @MNLittleFinn
    I do wear my HR strap quite a lot. Over time I learned a bit or two about how my heart rate correlates with my speed and zones. I use 200 max heart rate cause that's what I hit one in a 5k race with hellish conditions and I threw up afterwards and got 198 so I added 2 to be sure. I never got 198 after that but I do get to 196 in every race at the finish and so far my zones seem to be pretty accurate. Here is how I train and what my recommended paces and hr zones are (I'll put them in brackets in min per miles)

    Easy running (7:57 - 8:58, Zone 2, 136-152). Easy is tricky for me because my heart tends to fluctuate on different days. One day I'll be running at 8:30 pace at 150 BPM, one day I'll struggle to keep my heart at 9:20 pace even though it doesn't feel I'm working extra and I can talk just fine. I generally try to keep myself in the Zone 2 but I don't mind going over into the lower Zone 3 (152-168). 160 is as far as I will go as that is 80% of max for me. If I start seeing 158s I will slow down. Usually I run in the slower part of my recommended pacing or even slower that that. Is more of a feeling. Also I don't mind to just ignore it if I run with people and they have a faster pace. As long as I can have small chat and I don't need to break my sentences to inhale I'm good.

    Threshold running (6:50, Zone 4, 168-184). Over time I noticed I run my tempos at the upper end of the Zone 4. Usually I'm at 178-180. It will go into 182-184 when I already done like 30 minutes of running at that pace due to cardiac drift and that is fine. I run these based on feeling mostly. If they feel too easy I'll speed up. I noticed that as soon as my heart hits 184 (92%) I'll start gasping for air like in a 5k-10k race. That's sign that I run too hard and I slow down. So my threshold is that pace when I hit 180ish which for now it's like 6:40ish I think. This is one of my primary indicators of fitness and sign that I need to do a 5k trial or something. When these get easy or I start running them at 175 bpm I do a trial if I don't have any races coming

    Vo2max workouts (6:18, Zone 5, 184-MAX). This is fun. You're supposed to run these faster than your 5k pace and to hit 95% to 100% of max heart rate. Usually I hit 96% after 1-2 1000 m repeats at that pace and I'll gasp for air like a fish on dry land.

    Speedwork (5:46, No idea). Speedwork for me is stuff faster that 3k pace. Like 1 mile or 1500m pace. Usually that means really fast. I only do 200 and 400 meter repeats at that pace with a complete recovery so heart rate usually doesn't get into Zone 5. I do these concentrating on form mostly, trying to run relaxed and fast speeds and to move those legs quickly and correctly. I'll usually do them in the begging of my training and replace most of them with vo2max workouts after a while

    K I think that's all, also I hit my goal today :smile:

    Date.....Distance..Type/min/km

    September 1 - 12.8km - Tempo&Reps/4:20, 3:30
    September 2 - 7.7 km - Easy/6:00
    September 3 - 6.1 km - Easy/6:30
    September 4 - 17.2km - MP/4:35
    September 5 - rest
    September 6 - 8.0 km - Easy+ST/6:05
    September 7 - 8.9 km - Easy/5:40
    September 8 - 17.2km - Tempo/4:25
    September 9 - 9.1 km - Easy+ST/5:40
    September 10- 5.9 km - Easy/6:23
    September 11- 18.5km - Progressive Long Run (6:00-4:20)
    September 12- rest
    September 13- 8.8 km - Easy+ST/6:00
    September 14- 12.0km - Tempo&Reps/4:15, 3:30
    September 15- 9.1 km - Easy+ST/5:45
    September 16- 7.0 km - Easy/6:03
    September 17- 6.4 km - Easy/7:00
    September 18- 15.2km - Race/4:39
    September 19- rest
    September 20- 10.2km - Easy+ST/5:40
    September 21- 7.0 km - Easy/5:40
    September 22- 13.0km - Tempo/4:15
    September 23- 7.0 km - Easy/6:07
    September 24- 10.0km - Easy/5:44
    September 25- 19.0km - Long Run/6:00
    September 26- 4.0 km - Strava Badge run/5:26
    September 27- 9.8 km - Easy(ish) run/5:10
    September 28- 14.5km - Tempo/4:13

    exercise.png

    03/04: Bucharest 10k and Family run 48:28
    16/04: Color Run Bucharest
    17/04: Forest Run 5k 22:05
    04/06: Happy Run 5k 21:57
    22/07: Bucharest After9Cross 9.5k 49:03
    28/08: Fox Trail Half Marathon (10k) 48:28
    18/09: Baneasa Trail Run (10.5k) 49:12
    09/10: Bucharest International Marathon (Half Debut)

  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
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    @AdrianChr92 thanks for the info.
  • AdrianChr92
    AdrianChr92 Posts: 567 Member
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    @MNLittleFinn If you want the quick tip just find the pace that you think you can run for about an hour. As soon as you go over this pace you'll start having thoughts like "no way I can hold this for more than 20-30 minutes" then you'll know it's too fast
  • RunRachelleRun
    RunRachelleRun Posts: 1,854 Member
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    @AdrianChr92 That was super detailed. Loved it. Thanks! And congrats on making your goal for the month!
  • BeeerRunner
    BeeerRunner Posts: 728 Member
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    karllundy wrote: »
    @Ohhim - Ugh! Sorry to hear about Boston :-(
    @BeeerRunner - Aren't you in Texas now? Can't believe your co-workers found all that "ugly" green and gold :-) (says a disgruntled Bears fan).

    @karllundy ...I am in Texas now, but my awesome co-workers apparently prepared in advance. ;
    ) I'm sure all of this stuff was ordered online. You should be mad at the Cowboys...they sure beat the Bears on Sunday!! I'm not a Cowboys fan either. The only time I cheer for them is when they play against one of the divisional opponents in the NFC North. ;)

    @Ohhim ... So sorry you didn't make the cutoff. You were sooooo close. Best wishes at the Chicago Marathon coming up.

    @MobyCarp ...Hopefully your day to return to running will come very soon. We're all pulling for you. :smile:
  • 5512bf
    5512bf Posts: 389 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @5512bf

    Thanks for the information. I'm going to try running using the 175 LTHR estimate and see how things go, sine getting Lactic test done isn't an option for me at this point, and the 175 I got was from a good run where I was still feeling pretty good when I finished the fast portion (15 minute warm up 35 minutes fast, 15 minute cool down). I'm going to try to be very strict about keeping my HR in or under Zone 2 (<156 according to the Fitzgerald calculator). Best I can do for now, so I'm hoping it works out.

    My 2 cents. If you have the opportunity to get a LT test done, go for it and do it for kicks. I would not pay good money for it (for a number of reasons). First as @5512bf pointed out, so many variables will screw up your LT (weather, course, stress, sleep, diet) when you go and actually execute a LT run. But even more important: the more new you are at running you are, the faster your improvements become. You go and get a blood test done. By the time a month goes by, you probably made so much improvement that the reading is no longer valid. A lab blood test makes more sense to an elite runner with 10 years experience when he/she is working their tail off to shave 30 seconds off their marathon PR time. Us mere mortals can shave 90 seconds off a 5K time in our sleep with enough dedicated training.

    My trainer charges me $80 for mine and i'll probably do one every year after my spring HM and just as Full training will begin, mainly for piece of mind in training and knowing exactly where each run should be done. Mine did change fairly dramatically after running 1800 miles from 1 year to the next. I'll be interesting to see where it goes next year, but I doubt the LT number will increase much if any due to my age. I was one who ran way to hard starting out, and ending up with lots of lower leg issues, mainly due to the hardware holding them together. For me it was a wise investment to get that number and to work with a trainer for several weeks on form and strengthening exercise. A couple hundred bucks for 3 training sessions and that LT test was money well spent. For the most part I've remained injury free the past 16 months or so adjusting my training zones. Honestly I really hate getting into that zone anymore, it's a pretty intense run for me to get to 168-174 for a long period of time (40+ minutes), and it takes way to long for the legs to recover. That's probably why I only race a couple times a year, and haven't done an official 5k or 10k in nearly 2 years. If all goes well next weekend, I do have a couple of them circled on the calendar I'd like to run & how much better I can do than the 23:03 I did in Nov of 2014. Doing a 4 mile LT run this year I did 23:35ish for 3.1, so i'm hopeful to get close to 21. For a fat old guy that would make me pretty happy.
  • _nikkiwolf_
    _nikkiwolf_ Posts: 1,380 Member
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    @KatieJane83 Wow, great video! Sure, a 600mi ultra is the next logical step after a marathon ^^

    @BeeerRunner Happy Birthday! Those office decorations are awesome, you should tell your colleagues they are the best coworkers ever :-D

    @MNLittleFinn Using Joel Friel's method, I get 181 as LTHR (from the fast-and-flat bit of my last HM); and my vLT at 5:41min/km. McMillian's calculator gives me 5:42min/km as vLT based on the result of the entire race. I'm not sure how the McMillan calculation is done, but since the result from the full race there vs Joel Friels method, I guess that's good enough for me. My average HM over the entire race was 177. I probably did not run for 2+ hours above lactate threshold - assuming I stayed a few beats below, the 180 sound realistic as well. Of course, I don't usually train by heart rate, so I'm just using that information for my amusement ;)

    @Ohhim Oh no, that's really frustrating! I wish you all the best for Chicago, and then you can crush Boston in 2018.

    @Elise4270 Great that you can do the 5k and have beer and pizza with the others that are doing the half. I'd love to join, but the trip is a little too far for a race; I'm not that crazy (yet?).
  • kristinegift
    kristinegift Posts: 2,406 Member
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    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    I am so sorry @Ohhim that you did not make it. On the bright side, looking forward to you doing Boston with me and @kristinegift in 2018 (fingers crossed for all of us). I know a few others in here will be trying for it as well but forgot who. Hopefully @MobyCarp will be there as well.

    BTW, there is a group from my running group that are doing Chicago.

    Condolences on the slim miss @Ohhim for 2017. But 2018 is going to be an MFP PAR-TAY, just like @Stoshew71 said! :)
  • samthepanda
    samthepanda Posts: 569 Member
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    Well i might not make my target of 35 miles but tonights 4.5 miles gets me to 30. As a I said to a friend on the school run this morning when I was chasing my daughter on her scooter this is why I run - to keep up with my kids lol!
  • shanaber
    shanaber Posts: 6,410 Member
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    @_nikkiwolf_ - how did you like your new Merrill 0 drop shoes? I had some minor calf complaints when I switched but I had been mostly wearing running shoes with a 4mm drop previously so it wasn't a difficult transition at all.
    @Ohhim - loved your IM pictures! So terrible about the Boston cutoff!
    @Elise4270 - so awesome that you are going to slowly manage the 5K in November!
    @ddmom0811 - you ought to try getting your RHR with your HR strap on - if your FitBit is off when you are running it may be way off for your RHR too.
    @BeeerRunner - Happy, Happy Birthday from a (California) Packers fan! I am also a 49ers fan from when I was a kid :) my ideal game would be to see the Packers play the 49ers assuming the 49ers had a team that was competitive again!

    Rest day for me - struggling with motivation to do anything... have so much work to do and don't want to do any of it. Instead I have been here, reading posts, which is MUCH more interesting!!
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
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    @kristinegift Nice job on the Yasso 800s!
  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    edited September 2016
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    @Stoshew71 @7lenny7 @WhatMeRunning There was a Strava request by aka emptydog that does not appear to be linked with this group. I'm out of town, on mobile and have not approved nor denied the request. Maybe it's a lone wolf?

    I know another mfp user had issues with a person on Strava and don't want to allow that or any other disruptive person to view our runs/activities.

    I wonder if we should request an MFP PM or post here to join the group. I joined the Strava mfp cycling group and such request was made to keep the group honestly MFP.

    If anyone is harassed by another on Strava through this running group, please let Stan know. Or me, or Lenny, or Chris, but it's Stan's group, He's The Man.
  • untermrad
    untermrad Posts: 24 Member
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    Finally, the weather has been excellent for running this week. Catching up on a lot of posts, I'll do my best.

    @Ohhim Sorry to hear about Boston. That's so frustrating!
    @skippygirlsmom I'm so sorry to hear about the loss of your mom.
    @ccontr11 Missing running time due to illness is so irritating, but hopefully you've rested and fully recovered.
    @BeeerRunner Happy Birthday!
    @Stoshew71 and @AdrianChr92 Thanks for the various insightful posts about speed training, use of HRM, etc. Many "training plans" and articles I've come across are sometimes too vague on definitions of pace ranges for me to figure out.

    9/1 6.3 miles
    9/3 6.2 miles, split into two equal runs as I started out way too fast.
    9/4 6.3 miles
    9/6 6.2 miles (treadmill)
    9/8 4.8 miles fartlek run on treadmill, felt sick after completing speed portions and had to stop.
    9/9 6.4 miles easy run
    9/10 3.1 miles (Pure Tap 5k)
    9/11 6.5 miles
    9/13 6.3 miles
    9/15 6.3 miles
    9/17 6.3 miles
    9/18 4.4 miles
    9/19 6.8 miles
    9/20 6.3 miles
    9/23 6.5 miles
    9/24 6.3 miles
    9/25 4.2 miles
    9/26 8.1 miles
    9/27 6.3 miles
    9/28 7.7 miles

    exercise.png

    Upcoming races:
    9/10 - Louisville Pure Tap 5k 25:03
    10/1 - Norton Sports Health Great Pumpkin 10k
    10/22 - Urban Bourbon Half Marathon
    11/24 - Hungry Turkey 5k

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