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tillerstouch wrote: »tillerstouch wrote: »Actual question:
End of spring i was benching reps of 185 (i could do about 1 set 5). This summer the gym i workout at didnt have benches (i hate p.f. lol). So i was dumbbell benching (typically 50 pound d.b. during the spring i was doing 60/65). This summer i was also doing a routine with a buddy once a week that was 50 pull ups, 100 push ups, 150 body squats.
So to my question. Yesterday i went to bench for the first time since spring and i was able to do 1 set of 5 at 195, after a dtrong set of 5 at 185. I was really surprised because i had been stalled at 185 for a month or more during the spring. Then after a long break from benching or doing heavy chest work i was able to lift 10 pounds more.
Thoughts on what may have caused the improvements? The push ups? Maybe during the spring i just didnt give my muscles enough recovery time? (Also ive been in a deficit all summer do i cant imagine i gained muscle).
Great question and also interesting.
So there's a number of factors involved in strength production and while I wouldn't be able to go as deep into the topic as some other folks, I am comfortable generalizing it into a few categories -- there's rate coding which is basically the firing rate of neural impulses, there's actual muscle size (hypertrophy) and then there's also technical proficiency (for example a minor change in position can effect performance even though technically that's not strength).
If I had to guess the short answer is that the DB benching (and to a lesser extent, pushups) influenced the above factors enough to cause an improvement to bench.
It's also POSSIBLE that some amount of hypertrophy occurred even during a deficit, but I can't say that with any certainty. I just wouldn't rule it out unless you're a) advanced and b) shredded.
I didnt think about technical proficiency. I think you may be onto something with that. Thanks for the rely, i appreciate the insight.
A good way to think about it is that the person who can bench the most weight isn't necessarily the person with the strongest chest (and/or shoulder/tricep). It's the person who can lift the most weight at the skill of bench pressing.1 -
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Do you mostly train others and focus on keeping what you have or do you still train for strength/aesthetics?
I train primarily for performance in powerlifting. The main complication now is that I can't do a PL meet if I have clients at the same meet because I just can't focus and I'd rather coach them at the meet vs compete.
I've also had a number of random injuries.
But I still train for strength to the best of my ability.
What kinda surplus (if any) do you run to stay lean while progressing your lifts? Would you mind posting your stats?
I actually do not track intake at all. I monitor my body-weight and I use behavioral adjustments to put myself in a deficit or surplus.
I'm 39 years old, 5'11 and 190lbs currently. I typically compete at 190 which is right between two weight classes and so usually I don't manipulate bodyweight before a competition, however last meet I did I went down to 179 to try it out.
I'm not sure if you want lifting stats but my best in competition are:
457 squat
303 bench
457 deadlift
1200 total (the above bests were not all done at the same meet which is why the total is different).
The squat was at 179 but it was a 24h weigh in and so that number is artificially low. Bench/Dead were around 190 BW.
Nice. What kind of programming have you played around with for your more intermediate clients for strength? Do you mostly coach them on more conventional programs or is it more efficient to determine their programming needs individually? I'm assuming you do the latter for yourself with your lifts vs bodyweight.
It's more efficient to use conventional programs if we define "efficient" as "less work for the coach", but I don't go that route because it feels wrong to me. I HAVE had clients who PREFER to run a conventional program and I'm totally fine with that as there are some really good ones out there depending on the individual and their goal.
I customize all programs individually for clients although there are definitely trends that I follow and so I may have a couple of clients on similar (certainly not identical) programs if they happen to have the same goals - main differences would be accessory movements, absolute loads, and volumes adjusted for their tolerance/recovery capacity.
I tend to favor daily undulating periodization with intermediate clients. For powerlifting clients I tend to favor some sort of block periodization model where early on we focus on volume accumulation and hypertrophy followed by an intensity block where volume goes down (reps per set decrease) and load goes up. Followed by a taper+deload into the competition.
For clients who do not compete in powerlifting but want to build strength I tend to use a similar model but I would modify how the intensity block goes because some people don't want to test 1rms -- they might want to use an AMRAP at 90% or something similar. I also may opt for a linear model instead of a block model depending on absolute strength levels.
Do you drink alcohol? If so do you consciously plan when you're willing to drink in order to limit impact on recovery, or do you find it's not as important to do so in the long run as long as the consumption isn't regular or excessive?0 -
Do you mostly train others and focus on keeping what you have or do you still train for strength/aesthetics?
I train primarily for performance in powerlifting. The main complication now is that I can't do a PL meet if I have clients at the same meet because I just can't focus and I'd rather coach them at the meet vs compete.
I've also had a number of random injuries.
But I still train for strength to the best of my ability.
What kinda surplus (if any) do you run to stay lean while progressing your lifts? Would you mind posting your stats?
I actually do not track intake at all. I monitor my body-weight and I use behavioral adjustments to put myself in a deficit or surplus.
I'm 39 years old, 5'11 and 190lbs currently. I typically compete at 190 which is right between two weight classes and so usually I don't manipulate bodyweight before a competition, however last meet I did I went down to 179 to try it out.
I'm not sure if you want lifting stats but my best in competition are:
457 squat
303 bench
457 deadlift
1200 total (the above bests were not all done at the same meet which is why the total is different).
The squat was at 179 but it was a 24h weigh in and so that number is artificially low. Bench/Dead were around 190 BW.
Nice. What kind of programming have you played around with for your more intermediate clients for strength? Do you mostly coach them on more conventional programs or is it more efficient to determine their programming needs individually? I'm assuming you do the latter for yourself with your lifts vs bodyweight.
It's more efficient to use conventional programs if we define "efficient" as "less work for the coach", but I don't go that route because it feels wrong to me. I HAVE had clients who PREFER to run a conventional program and I'm totally fine with that as there are some really good ones out there depending on the individual and their goal.
I customize all programs individually for clients although there are definitely trends that I follow and so I may have a couple of clients on similar (certainly not identical) programs if they happen to have the same goals - main differences would be accessory movements, absolute loads, and volumes adjusted for their tolerance/recovery capacity.
I tend to favor daily undulating periodization with intermediate clients. For powerlifting clients I tend to favor some sort of block periodization model where early on we focus on volume accumulation and hypertrophy followed by an intensity block where volume goes down (reps per set decrease) and load goes up. Followed by a taper+deload into the competition.
For clients who do not compete in powerlifting but want to build strength I tend to use a similar model but I would modify how the intensity block goes because some people don't want to test 1rms -- they might want to use an AMRAP at 90% or something similar. I also may opt for a linear model instead of a block model depending on absolute strength levels.
Do you drink alcohol? If so do you consciously plan when you're willing to drink in order to limit impact on recovery, or do you find it's not as important to do so in the long run as long as the consumption isn't regular or excessive?
I don't drink only because I feel crappy even after 1 or 2 drinks. My main concerns with drinking being incoporated into a powerlifters regimen would probably be training performance related due to hangovers.
I wouldn't bat an eye at moderate recreational drinking provided that it's not interfering with performance or causing people to YOLO the diet too often.1 -
I had a DEXA done last week and the report was 36% bf for me. From my reading, it takes getting down to 20% bf to determine if you truly have permanently loose skin or not. So that would be 118 lbs for me, which is way lower than I want to be. Is there any point in going down that low if my ultimate goal is not to be 20% bf or 118 pounds? I feel like 23-25% is a good range and if I get down to 20% it would only be to say "yep, loose skin." Then I would try to add back some fat and that would just go straight to the loose stomach skin, right?
I can't speak to the loose skin part since I haven't looked into it.
But based on the rest of what you are saying, I would say the following things:
1) Most people under-estimate how much they think they should lose in order to get their body to a place they think they'll be satisfied with.
And honestly, I think it's a combination of simply underestimating how much fat they really have, and in some cases simply not being happy regardless of what they see in the mirror. I'm not suggesting this is the case with everyone, to be clear. It's just that many people have body acceptance issues and when those issues are present I don't think any amount of leanness is going to change that person's self acceptance.
2) More importantly for YOU, I would say that you should diet until you are either very happy with the results, or until the things you need to do in order to maintain the diet are no longer worth the outcome. I see this happen occasionally with a few of my clients and former clients. They are at a healthy weight and pursuing leanness for aesthetic reasons, and that's fine, but if the work required to get the result becomes disruptive to your quality of life then I would highly question it.
So I rambled there, but I would see how you feel about your body and about your diet and let those factors tell you when it's time to stop. Don't let it be about an arbitrary % or about loose skin.
Thank you for responding.
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What are you eating for lunch these days SS?
PS: Good to see you!0 -
Whats the min time frame to see results for a female client begining strength training, while eating at a deficit? Carries most of her fat in her belly.
6 months, a year 2 years?
Or is it all in your genetics?1 -
I got bursitis (or something) in my right hip two years ago while running. I've been through several doctors and several rounds of PT. It gets better for a while, then it comes back. 2 weeks ago, it was feeling good, I was able to go running without any pain, I thought I might be better. Then the husband came back from a work trip and we got it on, and suddenly my hip's in a ton of pain again. Something about how I spread/rotate my leg open during sex is aggravating the injury. My PT discharged me a month ago and I don't want to go back and spend more money unless I have to, so I'll ask on here:
-Are there specific exercises I can do to strengthen my hip through that rotation? I'm already doing clams and leg raises with a band, but is there something else I can add that might be more effective?
-All of this has left me with a sloppy hip that over-rotates and doesn't support its share of the weight during squats, so I've stopped squatting. How do I build back into having good squat form?0 -
hey @sidesteel, long time no see. No questions. Just wanted to say hello.1
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Sabine_Stroehm wrote: »What are you eating for lunch these days SS?
PS: Good to see you!
It varies but generally speaking I eat a very large lunch and dinner. It's often grilled chicken or steak sliced up and served in a bowl over rice with some vegetable in it. Sometimes with a gigantic salad.
Certainly not always but I've been doing that a lot lately.
I'll grill a buttload of chicken (marinated) so I have leftovers, and I have a rice cooker so it's super convenient and also tastes good AF.1 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »I got bursitis (or something) in my right hip two years ago while running. I've been through several doctors and several rounds of PT. It gets better for a while, then it comes back. 2 weeks ago, it was feeling good, I was able to go running without any pain, I thought I might be better. Then the husband came back from a work trip and we got it on, and suddenly my hip's in a ton of pain again. Something about how I spread/rotate my leg open during sex is aggravating the injury. My PT discharged me a month ago and I don't want to go back and spend more money unless I have to, so I'll ask on here:
-Are there specific exercises I can do to strengthen my hip through that rotation? I'm already doing clams and leg raises with a band, but is there something else I can add that might be more effective?
-All of this has left me with a sloppy hip that over-rotates and doesn't support its share of the weight during squats, so I've stopped squatting. How do I build back into having good squat form?
This one unfortunately it's outside of my knowledge base, except for the sex part in which I'm obviously a master (bater).
Ok but joking aside, I'm not great on injury rehab as it's out of my scope. I would certainly avoid causing direct pain to it so if an exercise causes the injury to hurt I'd steer clear.
It's also possible that the sensation of pain is reducing force production (meaning, because the hip hurts it appears weak) but I can't say that with certainty.0 -
enterdanger wrote: »hey @sidesteel, long time no see. No questions. Just wanted to say hello.
Hi there!
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No clue how long you are actually glued to your computer or not.
What's your opinion on slow & steady versus faster weight loss where you can see the progress and with continued progress you're more likely to stay motivated?0 -
Is your name Adel and are you in the office next to me right now?0 -
Curious - When I lift say 1x my bodyweight in the barbell squat I can hit my 5x5 and feel great, yet when I do say 100 bodyweight squats in a bootcamp class it becomes difficult/painful. I would have thought the bodyweight squats would be a cake-walk after doing nearly the same motion loaded down? Do these activities train different muscle fibers? Are there different benefits from doing these types of training, even though both are essentially the same motion?
And thanks in advance for your kind attention to my question!
-s1 -
chocolate_owl wrote: »I got bursitis (or something) in my right hip two years ago while running. I've been through several doctors and several rounds of PT. It gets better for a while, then it comes back. 2 weeks ago, it was feeling good, I was able to go running without any pain, I thought I might be better. Then the husband came back from a work trip and we got it on, and suddenly my hip's in a ton of pain again. Something about how I spread/rotate my leg open during sex is aggravating the injury. My PT discharged me a month ago and I don't want to go back and spend more money unless I have to, so I'll ask on here:
-Are there specific exercises I can do to strengthen my hip through that rotation? I'm already doing clams and leg raises with a band, but is there something else I can add that might be more effective?
-All of this has left me with a sloppy hip that over-rotates and doesn't support its share of the weight during squats, so I've stopped squatting. How do I build back into having good squat form?
This one unfortunately it's outside of my knowledge base, except for the sex part in which I'm obviously a master (bater).
Ok but joking aside, I'm not great on injury rehab as it's out of my scope. I would certainly avoid causing direct pain to it so if an exercise causes the injury to hurt I'd steer clear.
It's also possible that the sensation of pain is reducing force production (meaning, because the hip hurts it appears weak) but I can't say that with certainty.
Hahaha. Figured I'd ask. Back to PT it is, I guess. And maybe a hunt for a trainer who works with injuries.
...So we've established that sex falls under NEAT instead of exercise, right? Cuz, uh... I think I'll just deal with the pain when it comes to that.
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Curious - When I lift say 1x my bodyweight in the barbell squat I can hit my 5x5 and feel great, yet when I do say 100 bodyweight squats in a bootcamp class it becomes difficult/painful. I would have thought the bodyweight squats would be a cake-walk after doing nearly the same motion loaded down? Do these activities train different muscle fibers? Are there different benefits from doing these types of training, even though both are essentially the same motion?
And thanks in advance for your kind attention to my question!
-s
A good way to think about this is through the specificity principle.
Doing heavy squats will prepare you to do heavy squats
In terms of the fatigue and even pain that you experience doing very high repetition bodyweight squats, that's likely from metabolic stress which occurs to a much greater degree with high volume training.
As far as whether or not there are benefits to both, I would again think of specificity.
I would imagine that doing sets of 100 bodyweight squats would improve your ability to buffer fatigue, it would probably have greater cardiovascular benefits compared to barbell squatting 5 x 5 and so basically it might improve your endurance. The effects that it may have on your one rep max strength in barbell squatting are probably minimal.
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No clue how long you are actually glued to your computer or not.
What's your opinion on slow & steady versus faster weight loss where you can see the progress and with continued progress you're more likely to stay motivated?
This is a great question and it's something I've considered writing about in a blog post but I haven't done so yet.
The truth is I don't know the correct answer for each individual.
From a coaching standpoint, I quite literally lay out the pros and cons and I talk to the client about their preferences.
I make recommendations based on that conversation and I closely monitor the client to determine whether or not that is the right approach.
As far as some generalizations go, faster weight loss can be problematic if it results in diet adherence issues. Gym performance and muscle maintenance can be concerns but I find that it's usually adherence or intense food focus/mood issues does that become telling signs.
The major benefits of rapid weight loss are the positive feedback that further motivates the individual, and if it goes well, a shorter duration diet.
The major benefit to slow her weight loss is that you generally get to eat more calories. Typically that results in a diet that might be easier to stick to.
But not all people can maintain the necessary motivation if they don't perceive positive results occurring for their efforts. I've definitely made the mistake in the past of not making adjustments fast enough or not creating a large enough deficit and so the client gets frustrated because they feel like they are spinning wheels.
Finally, there is one circumstance in which I generally favor rapid weight loss and that would be a situation where someone is not lean and we are taking a habit-based approach and the habit is one that results in rapid weight loss.
One example would be a client who consumes several regular sodas per day and switching them to diet soda. If you have someone who consume six bottles of Mountain Dew per day and you remove that from their diet and get them to go on a couple of walks instead of remaining sedentary, you might have a situation where the perceived effort is low but weight flies off fast.
That sort of scenario will be perceived much differently than someone who is tracking calories and on a very low intake.
That's not the only scenario where rapid weight loss is appropriate, it's just one example of a context where I would certainly favor it.
I'm not sure if this answers your question because the truth is I don't necessarily have the right answer for everyone.
I do think it's a very good question to ask and it's one that I always keep in mind with new clients.2 -
Sorry, I used voice text software for that previous post so there are some grammatical errors.1
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chocolate_owl wrote: »I got bursitis (or something) in my right hip two years ago while running. I've been through several doctors and several rounds of PT. It gets better for a while, then it comes back. 2 weeks ago, it was feeling good, I was able to go running without any pain, I thought I might be better. Then the husband came back from a work trip and we got it on, and suddenly my hip's in a ton of pain again. Something about how I spread/rotate my leg open during sex is aggravating the injury. My PT discharged me a month ago and I don't want to go back and spend more money unless I have to, so I'll ask on here:
-Are there specific exercises I can do to strengthen my hip through that rotation? I'm already doing clams and leg raises with a band, but is there something else I can add that might be more effective?
-All of this has left me with a sloppy hip that over-rotates and doesn't support its share of the weight during squats, so I've stopped squatting. How do I build back into having good squat form?
Not SideSteel, obviously, but I have problems with my right hip socket, too. Mine I've had since I was a kid. It seems like mild hip dysplasia, where if I rotate that hip in a certain way (like when mounting a horse, which is when I first discovered I had a problem) it comes a bit out of socket. It locks up, and is incredibly painful until I completely reverse the rotation and feel it seat itself again.
Point being, I have found that weighted hip abductions help me. I use the weight machine, and start with the heaviest weight where I don't feel any pain for the full range of motion. That's pretty light, so I'll do 3 sets of 15-20 slow to moderate reps. Every time I do the exercise and can complete all 3 sets of 20, the next time I workout I add the smallest amount of weight available. Eventually I get heavy enough that at the end of the concentric motion, the muscles around my right hip socket cramp like crazy but there's still no pain in the socket. I'll stay at that weight until I don't cramp anymore. Usually 2-3 workouts. Then back to increasing weight again.
Something you might try.0
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