Two doctors dispel 4 myths to weight loss
Replies
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Seems to me like they're (willfully?)
- misunderstanding or misrepresenting what serious people who advocate those "myths" really say or mean (for the "small changes" one, and the "lose slowly" one), and/or
- treating rarely-emphasized things as major myths to be combatted (the sex one, the realistic goals one).
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I read the original article when it came out and it was reasonably well done. This article is not particularly well written IMO but it is not fundamentally wrong.
People on MFP are just as likely as anyone to hold on to their pet ideas, even in the face of contrary evidence.
I think the biggest problem with these types of stories is that they are meant to be quick content fillers written for a very average audience. So they tend to be shallow and overly generalized.5 -
tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »What's that BS about how 'physiologically, your body tries to stay the same weight'?
There is a lot of research about body set points, and of course as with any research, there are degrees of varying conclusions (of which those who believe in set points and those who don't will use the conclusions that suit their own point of view), but the research is interesting nonetheless.
People whose set point works correctly usually don't have weight problems. MFP (obviously) attracts those who need a calorie counting site because some individusls don't have a working set point in a normal BMI range. I have a set point, but it needs recalibration.
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I swear my set point is 148lbs, i can stay at this weight effortlessly.
I got down to my goal weight last year of 143lbs, and it was a constant struggle to stay there. It required pin point food logging/calorie counting, just all round hard work!
I lost my weight very slowly, and have never been obese.0 -
They state that sex takes on average 6 minutes? I'm sorry, but anyone who delivers that sorry a performance is not going to stay on my radar for long! That's ridiculously bad!3
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stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »About 2 and 3:
That's because what they're linking to is based on percentage of weight lost. "Success" was determined by "lost 10% of their bodyweight". So someone who lost 9% and gained nothing back would be a "failure" while someone who lost 20% and regained 10% within the study time would be a success...
It's a bit of a reductive suggestion of the science, in the sense that these were in controlled group's of obese patients, not just a range of people that only need to lose just a few pounds and some people 100 pounds. It also doesn't say that losing 20% and regaining would be a success - the study cites long term weight loss management — i.e. stablising, not putting back on.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
If you're going by that, the slow group was best.
"No significant group differences were found in weight regain between 6 and 18 months (2.6, 1.8, and 1.3 kg, respectively, ps < 0.9). "
And staying at more than 10% loss sustained was the factor for "success".
"The FAST and MODERATE groups were 5.1 and 2.7 times more likely to achieve 10% weight losses at 18 months than the SLOW group."
No *kitten*. If I go at 300 km/h on the autobahn instead of 100, I'm more likely to be at an arbitrary place after an arbitrary time. Says nothing about whether it's the better way to get to the place.
Not to mention that the "fast" group was basically losing 1.2 or so pounds a week on average, not what most would classify as fast for someone who is obese. That's not the kind of "fast" most people here advocate against.2 -
tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »What's that BS about how 'physiologically, your body tries to stay the same weight'?
There is a lot of research about body set points, and of course as with any research, there are degrees of varying conclusions (of which those who believe in set points and those who don't will use the conclusions that suit their own point of view), but the research is interesting nonetheless.
People whose set point works correctly usually don't have weight problems. MFP (obviously) attracts those who need a calorie counting site because some individusls don't have a working set point in a normal BMI range. I have a set point, but it needs recalibration.
Set points are an excuse to fail or quit when weight loss isn't linear, or you aren't tracking properly
I have yet to see any scientific evidence that they actually exist, it's just media spin / health & fitness woo
If anyone has any evidence at all, you know robust factual evidence rather than tabloid and blogs, please do share it
I fail to see how believing in something that isn't there to explain physical reactions is helpful to an adult
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amusedmonkey wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »About 2 and 3:
That's because what they're linking to is based on percentage of weight lost. "Success" was determined by "lost 10% of their bodyweight". So someone who lost 9% and gained nothing back would be a "failure" while someone who lost 20% and regained 10% within the study time would be a success...
It's a bit of a reductive suggestion of the science, in the sense that these were in controlled group's of obese patients, not just a range of people that only need to lose just a few pounds and some people 100 pounds. It also doesn't say that losing 20% and regaining would be a success - the study cites long term weight loss management — i.e. stablising, not putting back on.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
If you're going by that, the slow group was best.
"No significant group differences were found in weight regain between 6 and 18 months (2.6, 1.8, and 1.3 kg, respectively, ps < 0.9). "
And staying at more than 10% loss sustained was the factor for "success".
"The FAST and MODERATE groups were 5.1 and 2.7 times more likely to achieve 10% weight losses at 18 months than the SLOW group."
No *kitten*. If I go at 300 km/h on the autobahn instead of 100, I'm more likely to be at an arbitrary place after an arbitrary time. Says nothing about whether it's the better way to get to the place.
Not to mention that the "fast" group was basically losing 1.2 or so pounds a week on average, not what most would classify as fast for someone who is obese. That's not the kind of "fast" most people here advocate against.
Oh, I didn't even notice that one. Good catch.1 -
They state that sex takes on average 6 minutes? I'm sorry, but anyone who delivers that sorry a performance is not going to stay on my radar for long! That's ridiculously bad!
Apparently it's the average. http://www.esquire.com/lifestyle/sex/a5943/average-sex-time-0709/0 -
They state that sex takes on average 6 minutes? I'm sorry, but anyone who delivers that sorry a performance is not going to stay on my radar for long! That's ridiculously bad!
I guess it depends how good he is. If he isn't, six minutes can seem like six hours!
On the other hand...3 -
I don't believe in a set point in that if you consistently eat 250 calories a day (relatively random number) more or less than you need that your body will put up a huge resistance to losing/gaining weight. But . . . homeostasis is a thing. So I'm not convinced that smallish changes (say food or activity increase/decrease that results in 50-100 calories per day difference) will amount up over time to weight loss or gain. Both those numbers are rather random, but the greater point is that I tend to believe it takes more than just a small but consistent change to result in weight loss or gain for most people. Of course we might all define what constitutes a "small change" differently. A 30 minute daily walk was mentioned above. If done consistently and if it's a vigorous walk I would call it more than a small change. And we've all probably heard the story (or rumor!) of a person who gave up soda and lost lots of weight from that single dietary change. But I always tend to believe those people were consuming hundreds of calories a day from soda.0
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Two doctors walk into a bar...4
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tiptoethruthetulips wrote: »What's that BS about how 'physiologically, your body tries to stay the same weight'?
There is a lot of research about body set points, and of course as with any research, there are degrees of varying conclusions (of which those who believe in set points and those who don't will use the conclusions that suit their own point of view), but the research is interesting nonetheless.
People whose set point works correctly usually don't have weight problems. MFP (obviously) attracts those who need a calorie counting site because some individusls don't have a working set point in a normal BMI range. I have a set point, but it needs recalibration.
Set points are an excuse to fail or quit when weight loss isn't linear, or you aren't tracking properly
I have yet to see any scientific evidence that they actually exist, it's just media spin / health & fitness woo
If anyone has any evidence at all, you know robust factual evidence rather than tabloid and blogs, please do share it
I fail to see how believing in something that isn't there to explain physical reactions is helpful to an adult
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2990627/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2253845
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/body-fat-setpoint.html (<-- blog, but also referenced and this is Stephan Guyenet)
I think you're being a bit dismissive of set points but it's also possible that people view set point incorrectly. It's not a hard and fast line that nobody can cross, it's a set of regulatory mechanisms that influence body weight.
It is of course, a theory, but it's one that at least has plausible support to it.
Guyenet has written quite a bit on it actually and you can't find more at that link.5 -
It's just clickbait, not really worth all the scrutiny and rigor it's getting here.0
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85Cardinals wrote: »It's just clickbait, not really worth all the scrutiny and rigor it's getting here.
Rigor? In the MFP debate forum?
Now that's funny.1 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »About 2 and 3:
That's because what they're linking to is based on percentage of weight lost. "Success" was determined by "lost 10% of their bodyweight". So someone who lost 9% and gained nothing back would be a "failure" while someone who lost 20% and regained 10% within the study time would be a success...
It's a bit of a reductive suggestion of the science, in the sense that these were in controlled group's of obese patients, not just a range of people that only need to lose just a few pounds and some people 100 pounds. It also doesn't say that losing 20% and regaining would be a success - the study cites long term weight loss management — i.e. stablising, not putting back on.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3780395/
If you're going by that, the slow group was best.
"No significant group differences were found in weight regain between 6 and 18 months (2.6, 1.8, and 1.3 kg, respectively, ps < 0.9). "
And staying at more than 10% loss sustained was the factor for "success".
"The FAST and MODERATE groups were 5.1 and 2.7 times more likely to achieve 10% weight losses at 18 months than the SLOW group."
No *kitten*. If I go at 300 km/h on the autobahn instead of 100, I'm more likely to be at an arbitrary place after an arbitrary time. Says nothing about whether it's the better way to get to the place.
Not to mention that the "fast" group was basically losing 1.2 or so pounds a week on average, not what most would classify as fast for someone who is obese. That's not the kind of "fast" most people here advocate against.
That's interesting. So they're saying that, for rates of weight loss within the range we would call "slow and steady", faster works better. Possibly because it's more motivating to see the faster results?
But nobody on mfp advises against any of these rates of loss. The advice to slow down gets given to people who are trying to lose 2lb a week or more. Or to people who are very close to goal, but that is a different situation.
Newspapers oversimplifying science. Go figure.0
This discussion has been closed.
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