KFC/Chemical High

13

Replies

  • Gamliela
    Gamliela Posts: 2,468 Member
    My tum hurts from soy, it gets cramped. I was vegetarian for years but I struggled to get enough protien.

    KFC is not available where I live now, but those memories are easy to dig up. The crunch, smell and taste recall is fairly strong! Suprisingly strong!

    I kicked smokes 30 some years ago, so I think anything is possible, give it your best try if you want to be free.
  • Colorscheme
    Colorscheme Posts: 1,179 Member
    edited October 2016
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    Colorscheme wrote: »
    Salt, sugar and fat are the trifecta when it comes to why we love food that's so bad for us.

    But.........

    Bad for us is in the perception.

    KFC is not bad for us, it's just another food. Avoid it if it upsets your stomach. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with it.

    While that is true, any doctor will tell you eating fast food on a regular basis, which is known for being high in salt and fat is not good for blood pressure or cholesterol. Common sense does dictate that eating it in moderation is totally ok but there are two issues:

    1. fast food is STILL designed to be addicting. That is what food scientists are for, among other reasons
    2. some people cannot eat in moderation. If we all had that power, we wouldn't be overweight or obese.
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    magicpickles wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    You can test out your addiction theory by getting full everyday with non KFC foods and see if you still have to sneak out for a bite of KFC. I highly doubt it.

    The question is, can I get full without going over my calories? (something I struggle with). What I find is if I am not watching my calories, but eat some healthy stuff before I go to KFC I am satisfied with a smaller portion.



    That depends on how you manage your calorie intake.

    Your question is a very open ended one. You don't specify what time frame you stick to, like most counters do. 12, 24 hours, 48 hours? You can get very full consuming 2000 calories in one breakfast alone but not so much if you spread to 3 meals.

    This is why I don't artificially assign x calorie to x hours. I'm not gonna eat if I feel ok, then I eat full at the right meal, and everything works out in a weekly basis. (btw I don't pay attention to calorie number. Just go by the scale numbers)


  • SLLRunner
    SLLRunner Posts: 12,942 Member
    edited October 2016
    Colorscheme wrote: »
    SLLRunner wrote: »
    Colorscheme wrote: »
    Salt, sugar and fat are the trifecta when it comes to why we love food that's so bad for us.

    But.........

    Bad for us is in the perception.

    KFC is not bad for us, it's just another food. Avoid it if it upsets your stomach. Otherwise, there is nothing wrong with it.

    While that is true, any doctor will tell you eating fast food on a regular basis, which is known for being high in salt and fat is not good for blood pressure or cholesterol. Common sense does dictate that eating it in moderation is totally ok but there are two issues:

    1. fast food is STILL designed to be addicting. That is what food scientists are for, among other reasons
    2. some people cannot eat in moderation. If we all had that power, we wouldn't be overweight or obese.

    Right, moderation is key.

    How is fast food designed to be addicting?

    Moderation is a tool that can be learned.

    ETA: By the way, I rarely eat fast food, maybe once a year (except for Chipotle once in a blue moon) just because I don't like it and I'm a tightwad.
  • magicpickles
    magicpickles Posts: 286 Member
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    magicpickles wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    You can test out your addiction theory by getting full everyday with non KFC foods and see if you still have to sneak out for a bite of KFC. I highly doubt it.

    The question is, can I get full without going over my calories? (something I struggle with). What I find is if I am not watching my calories, but eat some healthy stuff before I go to KFC I am satisfied with a smaller portion.



    That depends on how you manage your calorie intake.

    Your question is a very open ended one. You don't specify what time frame you stick to, like most counters do. 12, 24 hours, 48 hours? You can get very full consuming 2000 calories in one breakfast alone but not so much if you spread to 3 meals.

    This is why I don't artificially assign x calorie to x hours. I'm not gonna eat if I feel ok, then I eat full at the right meal, and everything works out in a weekly basis. (btw I don't pay attention to calorie number. Just go by the scale numbers)


    I'm debating whether to count calories or not. It has been doing my head in. Wondering if I should just practice some healthy habits for a while and once I'm used to those, count everything. I am still quite big so I would probably lose weight.
  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    @magicpickles I think because you have an interest in this that you would get a lot out of the book Excitotoxins the taste that kills written by dr. Russell blaylock. He's an MD that has done many years of research on what msg does to the body. I think it's worth your time and investment to look at it.

    As for everyone else that wants to lap this stuff into their mouths, I'm not recommending the book to you. You wouldn't accept or care what it says bc in your minds nothing is unhealthy for a person and if some government agency (fda) says it's fine then you're good with that.

    OP you have one body. Your heading in the right direction with your thinking on this. Dig a little deeper and you'll find some of those answers. Wishing you the best of health. I do recommend sticking with CICO if you need to lose weight but you can most certainly work to eat healthily within that if it's your desire.

  • ronjsteele1
    ronjsteele1 Posts: 1,064 Member
    AnvilHead wrote: »
    ronjsteele1 wrote: »
    As for everyone else that wants to lap this stuff into their mouths, I'm not recommending the book to you. You wouldn't accept or care what it says bc in your minds nothing is most things aren't unhealthy for a person, taking moderation and dosage into consideration and if some government agency (fda) says it's fine then you're good with that.

    Fixed it for you.

    It did not need fixing, thank you. I believe I specifically said I wasn't talking to people like you.
  • Therealobi1
    Therealobi1 Posts: 3,262 Member
    I don't think 1 day a week of KFC is an issue but if you think it is don't go there. That's all you have to do. Have you tried to recreate what you buy from there at home?
  • Therealobi1
    Therealobi1 Posts: 3,262 Member
    magicpickles wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    magicpickles wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    You can test out your addiction theory by getting full everyday with non KFC foods and see if you still have to sneak out for a bite of KFC. I highly doubt it.

    The question is, can I get full without going over my calories? (something I struggle with). What I find is if I am not watching my calories, but eat some healthy stuff before I go to KFC I am satisfied with a smaller portion.



    That depends on how you manage your calorie intake.

    Your question is a very open ended one. You don't specify what time frame you stick to, like most counters do. 12, 24 hours, 48 hours? You can get very full consuming 2000 calories in one breakfast alone but not so much if you spread to 3 meals.

    This is why I don't artificially assign x calorie to x hours. I'm not gonna eat if I feel ok, then I eat full at the right meal, and everything works out in a weekly basis. (btw I don't pay attention to calorie number. Just go by the scale numbers)


    I'm debating whether to count calories or not. It has been doing my head in. Wondering if I should just practice some healthy habits for a while and once I'm used to those, count everything. I am still quite big so I would probably lose weight.

    Try it out and see. Many people lose weight without counting. If it doesn't work then get the scales out
  • magicpickles
    magicpickles Posts: 286 Member
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Look, blaming things on chemicals is convenient. It takes away personal responsibility and provides a neat explanation for failure, wrapping the whole thing in a pretty bow. It's the least helpful thing you could do for yourself and your health, though. Treating a psychological issue as a physiological issue you have little control over will make the process more daunting and less likely to succeed.

    I had KFC often when I was in college. I don't like it, but it was the most convenient thing available to me during exams. My college apartment was right next to one and they did delivery. Because I did not enjoy the taste, and the only thing I found marginally acceptable were the tenders and "popcorn", I did not form any special bond with that food. It did not make me feel good, it was not attached to any self-comfort practices. As soon as I finished college, I stopped buying it and haven't had it since because I did not want to keep paying for something that I don't particularly like. It's been 13 years. The transition from daily KFC to zero KFC was absolutely effortless. I actually "quit" KFC every time exams were over with no ill effects or attachments either. Don't you think if there was some pleasure inducing chemical I would have been inclined to keep buying it?

    Now when I first started dieting, I discovered nuts were a major source of calories for me. Learning to control my intake was very hard because the habit of eating them was attached to several of my other habits. Every time I watched a movie I craved nuts. Every time I read a book I craved nuts. Every time I played a game I craved nuts. Every time I passed by the kitchen I missed the feeling of grabbing a handful. Not doing these things was torture at first. Even though it's much easier now, I still can't have them in the house in large quantities. Is there some man-made pleasure chemical in almonds that makes me lose control around them? Highly doubtful, because I often bought almonds in shells and roasted them myself because they tasted fresher. I was just emotionally and habitually attached to them. Now I have a rule: no nuts on their own unless it's a single serve packet, they have to be part of food like in oatmeal or cake and even that can't be a daily deal.

    I really hope you move away from this "chemically addicted and helpless" state of mind in order to successfully take control of your habits.

    I agree with most of what you are saying, but I still don't think foods like KFC are good for you. I mean, they provide some calories which is good because it gives you energy, and is a source of protein, but otherwise, its crap. And I guess one persons KFC is another persons nuts.
  • amusedmonkey
    amusedmonkey Posts: 10,330 Member
    edited October 2016
    magicpickles wrote: »
    amusedmonkey wrote: »
    Look, blaming things on chemicals is convenient. It takes away personal responsibility and provides a neat explanation for failure, wrapping the whole thing in a pretty bow. It's the least helpful thing you could do for yourself and your health, though. Treating a psychological issue as a physiological issue you have little control over will make the process more daunting and less likely to succeed.

    I had KFC often when I was in college. I don't like it, but it was the most convenient thing available to me during exams. My college apartment was right next to one and they did delivery. Because I did not enjoy the taste, and the only thing I found marginally acceptable were the tenders and "popcorn", I did not form any special bond with that food. It did not make me feel good, it was not attached to any self-comfort practices. As soon as I finished college, I stopped buying it and haven't had it since because I did not want to keep paying for something that I don't particularly like. It's been 13 years. The transition from daily KFC to zero KFC was absolutely effortless. I actually "quit" KFC every time exams were over with no ill effects or attachments either. Don't you think if there was some pleasure inducing chemical I would have been inclined to keep buying it?

    Now when I first started dieting, I discovered nuts were a major source of calories for me. Learning to control my intake was very hard because the habit of eating them was attached to several of my other habits. Every time I watched a movie I craved nuts. Every time I read a book I craved nuts. Every time I played a game I craved nuts. Every time I passed by the kitchen I missed the feeling of grabbing a handful. Not doing these things was torture at first. Even though it's much easier now, I still can't have them in the house in large quantities. Is there some man-made pleasure chemical in almonds that makes me lose control around them? Highly doubtful, because I often bought almonds in shells and roasted them myself because they tasted fresher. I was just emotionally and habitually attached to them. Now I have a rule: no nuts on their own unless it's a single serve packet, they have to be part of food like in oatmeal or cake and even that can't be a daily deal.

    I really hope you move away from this "chemically addicted and helpless" state of mind in order to successfully take control of your habits.

    I agree with most of what you are saying, but I still don't think foods like KFC are good for you. I mean, they provide some calories which is good because it gives you energy, and is a source of protein, but otherwise, its crap. And I guess one persons KFC is another persons nuts.

    Whether you see is KFC as good or not is up to you, I personally don't consider it any better or worse than any other fried chicken (I dislike them equally too), but that's not the issue here. The issue is what you choose to do about something that has a grip on you and how you go about it. Do you have any foods you consider healthy that you really like? Do you think home-prepared fried chicken could be an acceptable occasional alternative? What strategies are you considering to self-comfort that don't include food? These are the questions you should ask, not questions that are of little consequence like whether or not KFC is good for you. So you decide KFC is bad, this does nothing for your attachment to it other than make you feel even worse when you happen to cave in (and you will have a few of these along the way as you learn to control it). It's best to shift focus to the process instead of the food.
  • Red_Pill
    Red_Pill Posts: 300 Member
    edited October 2016
    Oh Lord. OK disclaimer *KFC is not addictive neither is any other food because if that were true, EVERYONE who ever ate KFC would be addicted to it. However, KFC chicken is designed with the ability to increase the likelihood of it becoming addictive to an individual, similar to McDonald's. If you don't believe these heavy weight international fast food chains don't have food scientist helping them reach a particular taste then you're either deluded or uneducated to even debate the matter. The information isn't a "conspiracy" or "top secret". A quick Google search and you'll find it. That being said KFC isn't "bad" nor is it "good" it's just food. It is what it is. You can still fit fast food into your macros. It can be done. But If you're one of those individuals who becomes addicted to KFC then unfortunately that's bad luck. And you should probably stay away from it if it's beginning to have adverse effects on your health. To the lady above me @tomteboda . Yes chicken, potatoes & beans are excellent foods. Made any which way *generally. However if you think KFC is 100% natural chicken then you probably believe McDonald's burgers are made from grass fed beef. I hope I'm wrong because it didn't know it was possible to be in 2016 and not know you're not getting 100% normal/organic food from those 2 food chains. The stuff is nice don't get me wrong but don't bury your head in the sand now. In summary, KFC isn't addictive.
  • Red_Pill
    Red_Pill Posts: 300 Member
    GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
    Red_Pill wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    It's the evil sodium bicarbonate

    Someone's reaching out for understanding and you're being sarcastic. What are you 12? Add some value at least. And darling just because you can take a back shot of your muscles doesn't make you a world renowned dietician who's word is the gospel. Not saying you don't have good advice you probably do so share it without coming across like a 12 year old. In the words of the Hodge Twins: This is just advice, you can do whatever f**k you wanna do :smile:

    You haven't been around here very long.

    That sodium bicarbonate line was a reference to an old thread back in the day. An in joke for people who've been around a while.

    So just save your rant.

    Lol that's not a rant. I don't rant online.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
    magicpickles wrote: »
    Sloth2016 wrote: »
    magicpickles wrote: »
    vingogly wrote: »
    By the way, the fingers I'm typing this with are 100% made up of chemicals. Everything organic is chemical -- as has been pointed out hundreds of times in this forum.

    I realise that, my parents are scientists/medical professionals. I kind of mean chemicals made in the lab to produce pleasure or cravings. Chemicals put in food that are unnatural and that the body doesn't agree with.

    While such things exist, it's pretty well universally illegal to put them in food for human consumption.

    6qlcyfip3vi8.jpeg

    Legal food additives include preservatives, dyes to improve color, flavorings and thickeners. Here is a list of European Union approved food additives: https://www.food.gov.uk/science/additives/enumberlist#toc-5

    I don't think its illegal. All kinds of stuff gets put into processed foods. They put corn syrup into foods under unidentifiable names and multiple other products with names that can't be pronounced or random numbers.

    I don't think adding food colouring to food is a good thing. Or things to enhance flavours if it makes it addictive.

    They used to make foods and leave the fat in, but in the 70s or 80s people wanted to lose weight, so they started selling products as low fat or fat free, and since the flavour from the fat was gone, they increased the amount of sugar and other chemicals. It has made us very unhealthy. I'm not saying we should eat lots of fat, but the foods should have been left as they were, we could have still eaten it in moderation and been alright.

    Anyway, I feel like this thread has gone off topic. I just want to know what it is about KFC that feels so good to me and why the cravings don't subside, even after weeks. Why do I want the KFC when something made at home tastes better to me? it has to be the chemicals.

    The things they put in food to make it crave-worthy is fat, sugar, and salt, under various names. For example, a lot more foods have cheese (or something cheese-like) in them than used to be the case. Salt and sugar are added to some things in greater proportion too, because people seem to enjoy it. This is not unlike how good restaurants will cook stuff in butter.

    The reason KFC tastes good to you is probably fat + salt, and perhaps cooking methods not available to you at home. (I don't really think KFC is particularly good fried chicken, though, so can't speak beyond that, and I think good fried chicken is hard to turn down (and homemade is wonderful), even though the calories make it a rare treat for me and I never make it for myself since I never learned to make really good fried chicken and hate frying things.)
  • DeficitDuchess
    DeficitDuchess Posts: 3,099 Member
    I try to avoid KFC & Chinese food because the MSG, is like taking 2 doses of ZzzQuil; back to back & then all of those hours of sleeping, gives me a headache!
  • Colorscheme
    Colorscheme Posts: 1,179 Member
    tomteboda wrote: »
    Exactly how is KFC "crap" anyway?

    Is fried chicken "crap" in general? How do you turn chicken (which is widely regarded as a healthy food ) into "crap" by adding some spice and frying it anyway?

    And mashed potatoes? I mean, aren't they just boiled potatoes with some butter? These things are not "crap"

    Or the side dishes. Baked beans? All that fiber and deliciousness are "crap"? Or the macaroni & cheese.. is it the fat that's "crap"? Or the carbohydrates? Because we need fat and carbohydrates as well as protein. Or is it the high salt content, which isn't an issue unless you have high blood pressure or kidney failure, and is actually beneficial to people who sweat a lot?

    I really don't understand how someone else preparing your food makes it "crap".

    in91u3yoa3on.png

    Here's a sample meal: 1 chicken breast, 1 serving baked beans, 1 side salad

    570 calories total (totally workable in almost any diet scheme)
    12 g dietary fiber (that's nearly 50% of your daily intake!)
    48 g protein
    18g fat (I'm liking this protein: fat ratio)
    1930 mg sodium

    This can be worked into nearly any diet if you want it, and the food itself is just food. Yes, there are leavening agents and salts and flavorings in the food, but most of us who cook at home also put in leavening agents and salts and flavorings when we cook. We just don't think about them by their chemical names. The FDA requires food be labeled with specific chemical names rather than common names for reasons of specificity. It makes a lot of labels look scarier than they really are because most people are chemically illiterate.

    That's actually a lot of salt for one meal. You're not supposed to have more than 2300 mgs a day. But that's just my opinion.
  • zyxst
    zyxst Posts: 9,150 Member
    Red_Pill wrote: »
    Oh Lord. OK disclaimer *KFC is not addictive neither is any other food because if that were true, EVERYONE who ever ate KFC would be addicted to it. However, KFC chicken is designed with the ability to increase the likelihood of it becoming addictive to an individual, similar to McDonald's. If you don't believe these heavy weight international fast food chains don't have food scientist helping them reach a particular taste then you're either deluded or uneducated to even debate the matter. The information isn't a "conspiracy" or "top secret". A quick Google search and you'll find it. That being said KFC isn't "bad" nor is it "good" it's just food. It is what it is. You can still fit fast food into your macros. It can be done. But If you're one of those individuals who becomes addicted to KFC then unfortunately that's bad luck. And you should probably stay away from it if it's beginning to have adverse effects on your health. To the lady above me @tomteboda . Yes chicken, potatoes & beans are excellent foods. Made any which way *generally. However if you think KFC is 100% natural chicken then you probably believe McDonald's burgers are made from grass fed beef. I hope I'm wrong because it didn't know it was possible to be in 2016 and not know you're not getting 100% normal/organic food from those 2 food chains. The stuff is nice don't get me wrong but don't bury your head in the sand now. In summary, KFC isn't addictive.

    Can you post this easy-to-find link?
  • endlessfall16
    endlessfall16 Posts: 932 Member
    lemurcat12 wrote: »
    magicpickles wrote: »
    Sloth2016 wrote: »
    magicpickles wrote: »
    vingogly wrote: »
    By the way, the fingers I'm typing this with are 100% made up of chemicals. Everything organic is chemical -- as has been pointed out hundreds of times in this forum.

    I realise that, my parents are scientists/medical professionals. I kind of mean chemicals made in the lab to produce pleasure or cravings. Chemicals put in food that are unnatural and that the body doesn't agree with.

    While such things exist, it's pretty well universally illegal to put them in food for human consumption.

    6qlcyfip3vi8.jpeg

    Legal food additives include preservatives, dyes to improve color, flavorings and thickeners. Here is a list of European Union approved food additives: https://www.food.gov.uk/science/additives/enumberlist#toc-5

    I don't think its illegal. All kinds of stuff gets put into processed foods. They put corn syrup into foods under unidentifiable names and multiple other products with names that can't be pronounced or random numbers.

    I don't think adding food colouring to food is a good thing. Or things to enhance flavours if it makes it addictive.

    They used to make foods and leave the fat in, but in the 70s or 80s people wanted to lose weight, so they started selling products as low fat or fat free, and since the flavour from the fat was gone, they increased the amount of sugar and other chemicals. It has made us very unhealthy. I'm not saying we should eat lots of fat, but the foods should have been left as they were, we could have still eaten it in moderation and been alright.

    Anyway, I feel like this thread has gone off topic. I just want to know what it is about KFC that feels so good to me and why the cravings don't subside, even after weeks. Why do I want the KFC when something made at home tastes better to me? it has to be the chemicals.

    The things they put in food to make it crave-worthy is fat, sugar, and salt, under various names. For example, a lot more foods have cheese (or something cheese-like) in them than used to be the case. Salt and sugar are added to some things in greater proportion too, because people seem to enjoy it. This is not unlike how good restaurants will cook stuff in butter.

    The reason KFC tastes good to you is probably fat + salt, and perhaps cooking methods not available to you at home. (I don't really think KFC is particularly good fried chicken, though, so can't speak beyond that, and I think good fried chicken is hard to turn down (and homemade is wonderful), even though the calories make it a rare treat for me and I never make it for myself since I never learned to make really good fried chicken and hate frying things.)

    Unless you are a bad cook, there's nothing KFC can (significantly) put in their food that you cannot put in your homemade to make it crave worthy. If you are the sort of person who's "addicted" to KFC, chances are you also tend to be addicted to other foods in absence of KFC.

    Our family eats a lot of fried or rotisserie chickens from various places. KFC is good due to its uniqueness, not because of fat, salt, which contrarily we find too much and off putting, especially if you're not used to the amount. Again, nothing addictive, good or uniqueness from fat, salt from KFC or any chicken places.

    In conclusion, we love Popeyes.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,055 Member
    magicpickles wrote: »
    @Red_Pill

    What kind of foods can you get a dopamine release from at home cooked meals?

    I used to self-medicate with food but these days I get high from exercise.
  • kshama2001
    kshama2001 Posts: 28,055 Member
    magicpickles wrote: »
    endlessfall16 wrote: »
    You can test out your addiction theory by getting full everyday with non KFC foods and see if you still have to sneak out for a bite of KFC. I highly doubt it.

    The question is, can I get full without going over my calories? (something I struggle with). What I find is if I am not watching my calories, but eat some healthy stuff before I go to KFC I am satisfied with a smaller portion.

    Sure, find what foods work best to satiate you and focus on them.

    Understanding satiety: feeling full after a meal

    ...Tips on how to feel fuller

    So how can we best try to enhance these feelings of fullness to help us control how much we eat? Here are some top tips for helping you feel fuller:
    1. Foods high in protein seem to make us feel fuller than foods high in fat or carbohydrate, so including some protein at every meal should help keep you satisfied. Foods high in protein include meats such as chicken, ham or beef, fish, eggs, beans and pulses.
    2. If you are watching your weight, opt for lower fat versions, using leaner cuts of meat, cutting off visible fat and avoiding the skin on poultry as this will help reduce the energy density of the diet, which can help to enhance satiety (see below).
    3. Foods that are high in fibre may also enhance feelings of fullness so try to include plenty of high-fibre foods in the diet such as wholegrain bread and cereals, beans and pulses and fruit and vegetables.
    4. Alcohol seems to stimulate appetite in the short-term and therefore drinking alcohol is likely to encourage us to eat more. Alcoholic beverages can make you forget about your intentions to eat healthily by making you lose your inhibitions. Alcoholic drinks are also calorific, so you should cut down on alcohol consumption if you are trying to control your weight.
    5. The ‘energy density’ of food has a strong influence on feelings of fullness or satiety. Energy density is the amount of energy (or calories) per gram of food. Lower energy density foods provide less energy per gram of food so you can eat more of them without consuming too many calories. Low energy density foods include fruit and vegetables, foods with lots of water added when cooking such as soups and stews, and lower fat foods. Click here for more information on energy density.

    Read more: http://www.nutrition.org.uk/healthyliving/fuller/understanding-satiety-feeling-full-after-a-meal.html
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    OP can you clarify what your goals are and what your main concerns are? I'm having a hard time telling from this thread if your goal is weight loss, you've also mentioned some diabetes concerns? You seem concerned about the chemicals in KFC but I'm not sure if you're trying to avoid chemicals in general (which is impossible since everything is made of chemicals) or trying to limit certain ones like MSG? Are you trying to restrict sodium or fat, a couple of things that KFC would be fairly high in. When you eat KFC does it satisfy you and can you fit it in your calories? Are you trying to find more satiating foods in general?
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    It's the evil sodium bicarbonate

    Best. Thread. Ever.
This discussion has been closed.

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