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Flu shots? For them or against ?
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Haven't read all the replies yet but - I get a flu shot every year. Never had one before having kids (and never has the flu). Once I had children I started getting the yearly jab. Still have never had the flu. I might not die or develop serious complications from the flu (right now I'm young and healthy so low risk), but I have four children, two of whom are under six. They get the shot yearly, my husband does as well (military), so I do it for solidarity, to prevent spreading it to others both in and out of my household, and because I cannot afford to be deathly ill for two plus weeks! The only negative is that a day or two later I'll feel kind of punky. But that's a good sign - it means I'm having an immune response and the shot is doing what it's supposed to do! A heck of a lot better than actually getting sick.
Off to read the rest of the thread....
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tlflag1620 wrote: »Haven't read all the replies yet but - I get a flu shot every year. Never had one before having kids (and never has the flu). Once I had children I started getting the yearly jab. Still have never had the flu. I might not die or develop serious complications from the flu (right now I'm young and healthy so low risk), but I have four children, two of whom are under six. They get the shot yearly, my husband does as well (military), so I do it for solidarity, to prevent spreading it to others both in and out of my household, and because I cannot afford to be deathly ill for two plus weeks! The only negative is that a day or two later I'll feel kind of punky. But that's a good sign - it means I'm having an immune response and the shot is doing what it's supposed to do! A heck of a lot better than actually getting sick.
Off to read the rest of the thread....
That's because I am quite convinced that public schools are a long term social experiment to see if people are stupid enough to set off another plague epidemic via children, because it's much easier than the effort ot expense of private education.
Pretty sure that no more efficient microbe incubators exist, outside of a contaminated AIDS ward.1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »tlflag1620 wrote: »Haven't read all the replies yet but - I get a flu shot every year. Never had one before having kids (and never has the flu). Once I had children I started getting the yearly jab. Still have never had the flu. I might not die or develop serious complications from the flu (right now I'm young and healthy so low risk), but I have four children, two of whom are under six. They get the shot yearly, my husband does as well (military), so I do it for solidarity, to prevent spreading it to others both in and out of my household, and because I cannot afford to be deathly ill for two plus weeks! The only negative is that a day or two later I'll feel kind of punky. But that's a good sign - it means I'm having an immune response and the shot is doing what it's supposed to do! A heck of a lot better than actually getting sick.
Off to read the rest of the thread....
That's because I am quite convinced that public schools are a long term social experiment to see if people are stupid enough to set off another plague epidemic via children, because it's much easier than the effort ot expense of private education.
Pretty sure that no more efficient microbe incubators exist, outside of a contaminated AIDS ward.
Did I miss something? Yes, putting large groups of people in a confined space (dorms, workplaces, barracks, prisons, and, yes, school, both public and private) means viruses will be spread more readily (that's why people get sick more often in the cold months - not that the cold weather has an effect, but people tend to congregate indoors together and spread their germs). So yes, having two school aged children means more germs get brought home. But no one in my house has ever had the flu (we all get vaccinated every October). Really my kids are pretty healthy (knock on wood). They get colds from time to time, sure. The older two have only had a handful of ear infections between them, the younger two have never had ear infections (yet), none of them have had strep throat (I used to get that like clockwork every year as a child).... We did have the norovirus sweep through the house last year, but there is no vax for that (and fortunately it is short lived and only 4/6 of us got hit hard, me and my at-the-time three year old seem to be resistant against that particular nasty). All in all we don't get sick much, and it's rare for us to need medical attention when we do get sick.
Anywho... I guess I'm not understanding your comment. I get vax for the flu each year (and stay utd on other vax) to protect my children and my community, as well as myself. Before I had kids being out of commission for a couple weeks wouldn't have been such a big issue. With four kids to take care of I can't take the chance <shrug>. Not sure what that has to do with public school....
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Nevermind, I'm an idiot and shouldn't respond to thing while half asleep.
Though I could roll with it just being a joke based on the premise of needing to be immunized against children in general.5 -
Lol... No worries. And there are definitely days I could get on board with being vaccinated against children
. It's too late for me tho.... Save yourselves! 7 -
jordanchamzuk wrote: »Playing the Devils advocate. In the case of guillain-barré syndrome one of the questions to lead a physician to that diagnosis is weather you have had the flu shot.
As a healthcare worker you should know that any vaccine could potentially lead to GB, it is right there in the literature for every single vaccine out there. Additionally, as a healthcare worker, you should also be fully educated to the fact that simply being infected by such viruses as enteroviruses, arboviruses, adenoviruses, paramyxoviruses, and really just about any damn virus can potentially lead to GB.
So asking about physicians inquiring about flu vaccines as if they are the sole and primary culprit of GB is, to put it mildly, disingenuoussingingflutelady wrote: »You can't get the flu from the shot rhough
This is not strictly correct. Allow me to explain--
Years ago, before the current protocols, all flu vaccines were attenuated strains and there was the possibility that they could reactivate. Today's sub-unit vaccines are incapable of doing this though because there is no intact virus in it. However, the FluMist vaccine is an attenuated strain-type vaccine and, as such, it too could reactivate. That said, the newer protocols for attenuated strains are much tighter and the reactivation rate is significantly lower than in the past.That's what they told me. I guess I got tired of the yearly coinidence of getting sick within days of getting the shot. Happily the coincidence stopped once I stopped getting the shots.
What is much more likely here is that you are sensitive to the adjuvant that is present in the shots to help make your body react to the contents of the vaccine. This is not uncommon.I've had the flu shot twice for insurance purposes, but It's been years since I had one. I felt bad for a few days after getting it both times. I can't say I know much about the science behind it, but I do think the whole concept is strange. I'm not against it though, I just don't get it because i felt bad twice after getting it.
See aboveDeficitDuchess wrote: »I disagree, if you survive a strain of something severe; it's possible to build an immunity to it, less severe strains & to other illnesses also!
To an minor extent you are correct but...DeficitDuchess wrote: »A perfect example is the Bubonic Plague, those that survived it passed along an immunity to AIDS; to their decedents via Delta 32!
This is pure and absolute hogwash! The CCR5D32 mutation can confer a resistance to one of the strains of HIV, however there are two major types of HIV with fifteen subtypes. Additionally, resistance does not mean immunity and carriers of the CCR5D32 mutation can and most certainly do, still get HIV.That's interesting about the Bubonic Plague, fortunately it's not real prevalent any more as there is no vaccine for that. If we did have an large outbreak it would be awful.
Actually, plague is still very much alive and well and there are outbreaks yearly. The good thing about plague is that it is a bacteria so antimicrobial treatment takes care of it well enough2. No one is immune to AIDS
Fun but relatively under-reported fact, there are indeed some individuals that appear to be completely immune to HIV. These individuals are being found in Africa in the areas that have been hardest hit by the disease and the underlying mechanism is unknown at this time (at least last time I read up on it which has been a few years).
Guess I should ante in here now that I shotgunned all of the above...
You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers
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WYMANT0004 wrote: »...
You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers
What that chart does NOT show is the instances of where there were little or no occurrences of something pre-vaccine era but many after. Are there any? And any suspected ties to vaccines? Just asking.3 -
singingflutelady wrote: »
You can't get the flu from the shot rhoughI used to get one every year because I am mildly immunosuppressed (no spleen) but I would then get a fever and the flu within a few days. I found I would rather risk not getting the flu or getting the flu, and being a bit sicker for maybe a day or too longer, rather than guaranteeing myself a sickness.
For me, I skip the flu shot. Just a personal choice.
A fever and flu-like symptoms are an uncommon side effect of the vaccine. It is not flu, but the immune response to the vaccine can make you feel ill.
I'm for the vaccine unless contraindicated.
Personally, I get it every year because it's a condition of my employment. Every year, I end up with a swollen and sore shoulder for about a week after getting the shot because I'm sensitive to thimerosal and somehow the thimerosal-free vaccines are never available when and where I get mine.
I also get the fever and mild flu symptoms shortly after and, lucky me, I've had a cold within a month of getting the vaccine every year since I started This'll be my 10th. A PI I work with observed that my immune response to the vaccine is excessive, possibly because of the secondary insult from thimerosal and may be leaving me susceptible to illness for a couple of weeks after. Who knows. Since there's always colds going through the office, it's not too great a surprise that I catch it.
My general opinion is not improved by that I've been thoroughly educated on the relatively poor seroconversion of many years' flu vaccines so feel like I'm having these symptoms for little chance of personal benefit.
If I were >= 60, I'd be sure to get one every year, job requirement or no. The seroconversion rates are just above abysmal for that age group, but the complication risk for flu is so very high any chance that I'd be protected would be worth it.
So after bitching about always having to get the vaccine with thimerosal, I go to my yearly dose a couple of days ago and guess what - all the vaccine available was thimerosal-free and the shot, not the spray.
It's been great - a minor but bone deep ache in the arm that received the injection that just lasted the night and some soreness to the touch after. No fever that I'd usually get the next day. No headache, mild or otherwise, and no swelling or limited arm movement.
The nurse administering the shot told me they'd determined from employee complaints year after year that the vaccine with thimerosal wasn't worth it so they've decided to just use the other version exclusively. I bet there was a spike in PTO that coincided with the time we all get the vaccine that influenced that decision.4 -
Of course. I have a baby with a weak immune system. Adults who are around children or have children in public school who refuse to vaccinate are being negligent. Herd immunity is very real and it protects those children/elderly with weak immune systems.11
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Why not take dietary steps to improve your and your child's immune systems? As mothers we do not always pass on all the protection we should because we are lacking and so it goes on.
Vitamins, minerals, prebiotcs, not to mention for adults to ensure you have sufficient iodine in your system because it is essential for all the mucus membranes in the body and so very much more. These membranes are your immune system at work preventing ingress of germs and viruses.
Having healthy digestion supports the immune system because it is the foundation of the immune system. Ensure you have a balanced healthy diet. If you have ever taken a course of antibiotics take a prebiotic to address the cultures lost to this treatments in discriminant attack on every microbe in our bodies not just those causing the reason for the product.
Just a thought, because as someone who's system needs careful treatment now, I will never have a flu jab again. I no longer have chest infections.4 -
WYMANT0004 wrote: »...
You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers
What that chart does NOT show is the instances of where there were little or no occurrences of something pre-vaccine era but many after. Are there any? And any suspected ties to vaccines? Just asking.
Err.
Why would a vaccine be developed and distributed if there were few or no occurrences of the disease the vaccine is supposed to prevent? I mean, there ARE vaccines developed for really nasty diseases that have a low incidence rate, but the vaccines are not distributed except to the few known to be at risk unless and until there's an outbreak. So, even if there's a bad reaction to the vaccine it'd be confined to those few.
Unless you're talking about vaccines spreading disease? There have been incidents where batches of vaccines were contaminated with other bugs, or used adjuvants that had not great side effects, or contained live and active virus rather than dead or live attenuated. One of the better known was an incident in the 50's where some batches of polio virus made by a particular company passed safety inspections but contained live virus (it was supposed to be dead). There were a couple of hundred cases of polio attributed to those faulty vaccines.
Oh, here's one that might be more what you mean: cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/rotavirus/vac-rotashield-historical.htm
An association of a particular vaccine and intussusception in infants under 1yr. Vaccine was pulled from production.6 -
Why not take dietary steps to improve your and your child's immune systems? As mothers we do not always pass on all the protection we should because we are lacking and so it goes on.
Vitamins, minerals, prebiotcs, not to mention for adults to ensure you have sufficient iodine in your system because it is essential for all the mucus membranes in the body and so very much more. These membranes are your immune system at work preventing ingress of germs and viruses.
Having healthy digestion supports the immune system because it is the foundation of the immune system. Ensure you have a balanced healthy diet. If you have ever taken a course of antibiotics take a prebiotic to address the cultures lost to this treatments in discriminant attack on every microbe in our bodies not just those causing the reason for the product.
Just a thought, because as someone who's system needs careful treatment now, I will never have a flu jab again. I no longer have chest infections.
Even well-nourished people can get a viral infection. Being malnourished can put you more at risk for disease, but eating well isn't going to replace vaccination. And vaccinations aren't just about personal protection, but protecting those who are more vulnerable in society.15 -
one1fast68 wrote: »I see a lot of posts about how many people die each year of the flu and how much lower your risk is of getting GBS...I personally have never known anyone that has died of the flu or know anyone that has told me they lost someone to flu. I do have a friend that lost his brother to GBS though. I'm just curious, because I see a lot of the statistics on the news - has anyone here known someone personally that has died of the flu?
My great grandfather died from the flu.1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »one1fast68 wrote: »I see a lot of posts about how many people die each year of the flu and how much lower your risk is of getting GBS...I personally have never known anyone that has died of the flu or know anyone that has told me they lost someone to flu. I do have a friend that lost his brother to GBS though. I'm just curious, because I see a lot of the statistics on the news - has anyone here known someone personally that has died of the flu?
My great grandfather died from the flu.
My great-grandfather died from the flu also, as well as a great-aunt and a great-uncle. I don't know anybody who has had GBS, but that's pretty irrelevant. I still wouldn't make my vaccination or other health decisions exclusively based on diseases and complications experienced by people I know. It's 2016, we have access to information that allows us to make decisions on a better basis than "Well, I know a guy who . . . "11 -
Why not take dietary steps to improve your and your child's immune systems? As mothers we do not always pass on all the protection we should because we are lacking and so it goes on.
Vitamins, minerals, prebiotcs, not to mention for adults to ensure you have sufficient iodine in your system because it is essential for all the mucus membranes in the body and so very much more. These membranes are your immune system at work preventing ingress of germs and viruses.
Having healthy digestion supports the immune system because it is the foundation of the immune system. Ensure you have a balanced healthy diet. If you have ever taken a course of antibiotics take a prebiotic to address the cultures lost to this treatments in discriminant attack on every microbe in our bodies not just those causing the reason for the product.
Just a thought, because as someone who's system needs careful treatment now, I will never have a flu jab again. I no longer have chest infections.
While eating well and being well-nourished can help your immune system, it is not a substitute for the vaccine. The flu virus doesn't care how great the dietary steps you're taking are. Again, go back in history to the 1918 pandemic. That sucker took out the rich (it's called Spanish Influenza epidemic because the King of Spain had it), the poor, the young, the healthy, etc. I've known people who take all kinds of dietary steps and they get sick same as the rest of us.
I've worked with people who have compromised immune systems as they recover from chemotherapy. Being around non-vaccinated people puts them at risk.7 -
WYMANT0004 wrote: »...
You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers
What that chart does NOT show is the instances of where there were little or no occurrences of something pre-vaccine era but many after. Are there any? And any suspected ties to vaccines? Just asking.
Err.
Why would a vaccine be developed and distributed if there were few or no occurrences of the disease the vaccine is supposed to prevent? I mean, there ARE vaccines developed for really nasty diseases that have a low incidence rate, but the vaccines are not distributed except to the few known to be at risk unless and until there's an outbreak. So, even if there's a bad reaction to the vaccine it'd be confined to those few.
Unless you're talking about vaccines spreading disease? There have been incidents where batches of vaccines were contaminated with other bugs, or used adjuvants that had not great side effects, or contained live and active virus rather than dead or live attenuated. One of the better known was an incident in the 50's where some batches of polio virus made by a particular company passed safety inspections but contained live virus (it was supposed to be dead). There were a couple of hundred cases of polio attributed to those faulty vaccines.
Oh, here's one that might be more what you mean: cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/rotavirus/vac-rotashield-historical.htm
An association of a particular vaccine and intussusception in infants under 1yr. Vaccine was pulled from production.
I was talking about any problems that may have been caused by vaccines. I don't want to mention any specific examples because then someone will accuse me of blaming vaccines when I'm not... I'm just curious. I know there's been speculation about vaccines over the long term causing other problems. Some say there's no proof of ties to vaccines. But if there are any issues that chart would not show them.1 -
WYMANT0004 wrote: »...
You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers
What that chart does NOT show is the instances of where there were little or no occurrences of something pre-vaccine era but many after. Are there any? And any suspected ties to vaccines? Just asking.
Err.
Why would a vaccine be developed and distributed if there were few or no occurrences of the disease the vaccine is supposed to prevent? I mean, there ARE vaccines developed for really nasty diseases that have a low incidence rate, but the vaccines are not distributed except to the few known to be at risk unless and until there's an outbreak. So, even if there's a bad reaction to the vaccine it'd be confined to those few.
Unless you're talking about vaccines spreading disease? There have been incidents where batches of vaccines were contaminated with other bugs, or used adjuvants that had not great side effects, or contained live and active virus rather than dead or live attenuated. One of the better known was an incident in the 50's where some batches of polio virus made by a particular company passed safety inspections but contained live virus (it was supposed to be dead). There were a couple of hundred cases of polio attributed to those faulty vaccines.
Oh, here's one that might be more what you mean: cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/rotavirus/vac-rotashield-historical.htm
An association of a particular vaccine and intussusception in infants under 1yr. Vaccine was pulled from production.
I was talking about any problems that may have been caused by vaccines. I don't want to mention any specific examples because then someone will accuse me of blaming vaccines when I'm not... I'm just curious. I know there's been speculation about vaccines over the long term causing other problems. Some say there's no proof of ties to vaccines. But if there are any issues that chart would not show them.
You say "some say" there is no proof of ties to vaccines. I suppose that means that others say there is proof of such a tie? What data are they referring to when they make that claim?2 -
To be fair, the 1918 flu was what is thought to have been a sudden genetic shift in the virus. A similar occurrence today would not be prevented by the flu vaccine unless it were specifically manufactured to combat that strain. In which case, there would have to be initial isolated outbreaks AND there would have to be a decision to protect against that strain.
Otherwise, we'd have an outbreak, initial high mortality, an emergency production of targeted flu vaccine and an amelioration of that year's outbreak if the vaccine were manufactured quickly enough to matter.2 -
Nope not since about 2005 when I saw they did not work, and made you sicker than if you got it and how sick it made children. Interesting but since then I've been sick 3 times. And these days they are putting more and mor things in there and it's killing people or injuring them. I'll deal with a cold or flu. People fighting cancer especially should not take the flu shot. Or while under chemo. I've seen that first hand and it tells you if you are immuno suppressed you should not take the flu shot. But it's pushed a lot every where you go or while you are pregnant.2
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janejellyroll wrote: »WYMANT0004 wrote: »...
You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers
What that chart does NOT show is the instances of where there were little or no occurrences of something pre-vaccine era but many after. Are there any? And any suspected ties to vaccines? Just asking.
Err.
Why would a vaccine be developed and distributed if there were few or no occurrences of the disease the vaccine is supposed to prevent? I mean, there ARE vaccines developed for really nasty diseases that have a low incidence rate, but the vaccines are not distributed except to the few known to be at risk unless and until there's an outbreak. So, even if there's a bad reaction to the vaccine it'd be confined to those few.
Unless you're talking about vaccines spreading disease? There have been incidents where batches of vaccines were contaminated with other bugs, or used adjuvants that had not great side effects, or contained live and active virus rather than dead or live attenuated. One of the better known was an incident in the 50's where some batches of polio virus made by a particular company passed safety inspections but contained live virus (it was supposed to be dead). There were a couple of hundred cases of polio attributed to those faulty vaccines.
Oh, here's one that might be more what you mean: cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd-vac/rotavirus/vac-rotashield-historical.htm
An association of a particular vaccine and intussusception in infants under 1yr. Vaccine was pulled from production.
I was talking about any problems that may have been caused by vaccines. I don't want to mention any specific examples because then someone will accuse me of blaming vaccines when I'm not... I'm just curious. I know there's been speculation about vaccines over the long term causing other problems. Some say there's no proof of ties to vaccines. But if there are any issues that chart would not show them.
You say "some say" there is no proof of ties to vaccines. I suppose that means that others say there is proof of such a tie? What data are they referring to when they make that claim?
I'm asking someone who seemed to have a lot of answers and is up on the subject a question. "Some say" include some earlier in this thread and elsewhere. I'm not going to argue about it.1
This discussion has been closed.
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