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Flu shots? For them or against ?
Replies
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Against. No guarantee that the virus you are exposing yourself to is the strain that will hit you.
Lowering your immune system for a chance of immunity to the wrong strain just makes you more susceptible to other things while your body develops resistance to that strain.
The flu isn't like measles or polio.
You'll live if you catch the flu and your quality of life will not be impacted for the long-term.
Maybe if you are elderly, etc. it is more dangerous to catch the flu, but I am talking about myself now.
I have never had one and I cannot recall the last time I had the flu.
Your mileage may vary.7 -
I've been getting one every year since my wife works in Healthcare and she brings home all the germs. Its even more important now that we have a newborn. I should note I have not gotten the flu since being vaccinated (i believe its also been a while since they guessed wrong on the strain).
We are about to put up the 'Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200' sign on anyone who wants to hold or touch Eli who is not vaccinated.
Ever since the Measles outbreak in CA the anit vax nonsense seems to have died down. A little harder to defend that position when someone now has to live with the knowledge that their child has died due to their poor choices of not vacinating against a completely preventable disease.
So you would prevent a family member from touching or holding your child if they couldn't be vaccinated due to allergies? You really ask everyone before holding your don if they have been vaccinated?
1 -
singingflutelady wrote: »DeficitDuchess wrote: »It's very simple. The flu (Influenza) is caused by a virus. No amount of working out, or eating this or that is going to protect you from a virus. Unless you are a newborn, everyone has had the flu before. They might not know it, they might have mistaken it for a bad cold, but like the common cold, no one is immune from it, so, in my opinion, it only makes sense to get the flu shot. Why take a chance on getting sick if you can avoid it? JMO.
I disagree, if you survive a strain of something severe; it's possible to build an immunity to it, less severe strains & to other illnesses also! A perfect example is the Bubonic Plague, those that survived it passed along an immunity to AIDS; to their decedents via Delta 32!
Immunizations are the technological equivalence of passing immunity to a larger population. There is no legitimate argument against it unless you believe in non-intervention.
1. Bubonic plague is bacterial (Yersinia pestis) - not viral and easily resolved with antibiotics.
2. No one is immune to AIDS
About the AIDS thing. I have an online friend who has AIDS and an autoimmune disease (AIDS came first). The human body is very complex
AIDS is not a result of HIV (as the masses understand).
I cannot remember the PhD, but he was demonized in the 90's with his groundbreaking work in AIDS research. He hypothesized that AIDS was not due to HIV onset, but due to an over-stimulation of receptor sites aggravated by years of drug overuse. He was absolutely correct and many people diagnosed did not contract HIV. Five of the eight HIV vaccines in use today are a direct result from his research.
How did this doctor explain AIDS in people who never used drugs or used them rarely? And what do you mean when you say many people diagnosed never contracted HIV? They were diagnosed as HIV positive, but never contracted HIV? Or did you mean that many people who are HIV Positive have not contracted AIDS?2 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »Never had one. Don't plan on getting one any time soon but when I'm older I might need them.
I don't view vaccines as being for yourself, they are for the community. Its a societal thing. I don't get a flu shot because I am super worried that I am going to get deathly ill from the flu, I get a flu shot because I view it as part of the protective shield helping stave off potentially life threatening diseases from the community as a whole. Not because I am old but because I might be around people who are.
I get the TDAP vaccine because I'm occassionally around children, not because I'm worried about pertussus for myself. I get the flu shot for similar reasons.
I view it as a civic duty. Unless I have a very good reason to not get one I get one and to date I haven't had a good reason to not get one. I have medical insurance so its 100% free, so why wouldn't I?
With everything its a cost:benefit analysis
Cost: No money. No risk of illness (other posters are right you cannot get sick from a flu vaccine).
Benefit: Possibly avoid the flu yourself. Avoid transmitting the flu to others.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have a question, and I'll admit that I did not read this thread, so it my already have been addressed. The fact is, I've never viewed the flu shot in the same manner as the person I quoted above, and his/her view makes a lot of sense in the Arena of Vaccines as a whole. However, unlike most other vaccines, almost everyone I know actually contracts the flu when they get the flu shot. Doesn't that negate the whole "protective shield" argument?1 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. Many people who think they have the flu when they get the flu shot have never actually had the flu. It's like a headache--some people think their headaches are migraines until they have a migraine. The magnitude is just different. You feel run-down, you feel bad, you may even get sick. But it's not as bad as the actual flu and certainly not life-threatening the way the flu is.JamestheLiar wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Never had one. Don't plan on getting one any time soon but when I'm older I might need them.
I don't view vaccines as being for yourself, they are for the community. Its a societal thing. I don't get a flu shot because I am super worried that I am going to get deathly ill from the flu, I get a flu shot because I view it as part of the protective shield helping stave off potentially life threatening diseases from the community as a whole. Not because I am old but because I might be around people who are.
I get the TDAP vaccine because I'm occassionally around children, not because I'm worried about pertussus for myself. I get the flu shot for similar reasons.
I view it as a civic duty. Unless I have a very good reason to not get one I get one and to date I haven't had a good reason to not get one. I have medical insurance so its 100% free, so why wouldn't I?
With everything its a cost:benefit analysis
Cost: No money. No risk of illness (other posters are right you cannot get sick from a flu vaccine).
Benefit: Possibly avoid the flu yourself. Avoid transmitting the flu to others.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have a question, and I'll admit that I did not read this thread, so it my already have been addressed. The fact is, I've never viewed the flu shot in the same manner as the person I quoted above, and his/her view makes a lot of sense in the Arena of Vaccines as a whole. However, unlike most other vaccines, almost everyone I know actually contracts the flu when they get the flu shot. Doesn't that negate the whole "protective shield" argument?
2. For people who actually get the flu after the flu shot, they are either: (a) getting it before the shot's efficacy would have kicked in (ie, they get it three days after but the flu shot actually takes 2 weeks to improve your immune system) and it's a coincidence, or (b)they got a strain that the shot didn't immunize against.
3. Do you go around asking every healthy person you know if they've had a flu shot? Because most people who think they get the flu after the shot are pretty vocal about it, and most people who have good experiences just kind of go about their business.
so ... that's a "No" from you?0 -
JamestheLiar wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. Many people who think they have the flu when they get the flu shot have never actually had the flu. It's like a headache--some people think their headaches are migraines until they have a migraine. The magnitude is just different. You feel run-down, you feel bad, you may even get sick. But it's not as bad as the actual flu and certainly not life-threatening the way the flu is.JamestheLiar wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Never had one. Don't plan on getting one any time soon but when I'm older I might need them.
I don't view vaccines as being for yourself, they are for the community. Its a societal thing. I don't get a flu shot because I am super worried that I am going to get deathly ill from the flu, I get a flu shot because I view it as part of the protective shield helping stave off potentially life threatening diseases from the community as a whole. Not because I am old but because I might be around people who are.
I get the TDAP vaccine because I'm occassionally around children, not because I'm worried about pertussus for myself. I get the flu shot for similar reasons.
I view it as a civic duty. Unless I have a very good reason to not get one I get one and to date I haven't had a good reason to not get one. I have medical insurance so its 100% free, so why wouldn't I?
With everything its a cost:benefit analysis
Cost: No money. No risk of illness (other posters are right you cannot get sick from a flu vaccine).
Benefit: Possibly avoid the flu yourself. Avoid transmitting the flu to others.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have a question, and I'll admit that I did not read this thread, so it my already have been addressed. The fact is, I've never viewed the flu shot in the same manner as the person I quoted above, and his/her view makes a lot of sense in the Arena of Vaccines as a whole. However, unlike most other vaccines, almost everyone I know actually contracts the flu when they get the flu shot. Doesn't that negate the whole "protective shield" argument?
2. For people who actually get the flu after the flu shot, they are either: (a) getting it before the shot's efficacy would have kicked in (ie, they get it three days after but the flu shot actually takes 2 weeks to improve your immune system) and it's a coincidence, or (b)they got a strain that the shot didn't immunize against.
3. Do you go around asking every healthy person you know if they've had a flu shot? Because most people who think they get the flu after the shot are pretty vocal about it, and most people who have good experiences just kind of go about their business.
so ... that's a "No" from you?
Just read the thread.1 -
cmriverside wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. Many people who think they have the flu when they get the flu shot have never actually had the flu. It's like a headache--some people think their headaches are migraines until they have a migraine. The magnitude is just different. You feel run-down, you feel bad, you may even get sick. But it's not as bad as the actual flu and certainly not life-threatening the way the flu is.JamestheLiar wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Never had one. Don't plan on getting one any time soon but when I'm older I might need them.
I don't view vaccines as being for yourself, they are for the community. Its a societal thing. I don't get a flu shot because I am super worried that I am going to get deathly ill from the flu, I get a flu shot because I view it as part of the protective shield helping stave off potentially life threatening diseases from the community as a whole. Not because I am old but because I might be around people who are.
I get the TDAP vaccine because I'm occassionally around children, not because I'm worried about pertussus for myself. I get the flu shot for similar reasons.
I view it as a civic duty. Unless I have a very good reason to not get one I get one and to date I haven't had a good reason to not get one. I have medical insurance so its 100% free, so why wouldn't I?
With everything its a cost:benefit analysis
Cost: No money. No risk of illness (other posters are right you cannot get sick from a flu vaccine).
Benefit: Possibly avoid the flu yourself. Avoid transmitting the flu to others.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have a question, and I'll admit that I did not read this thread, so it my already have been addressed. The fact is, I've never viewed the flu shot in the same manner as the person I quoted above, and his/her view makes a lot of sense in the Arena of Vaccines as a whole. However, unlike most other vaccines, almost everyone I know actually contracts the flu when they get the flu shot. Doesn't that negate the whole "protective shield" argument?
2. For people who actually get the flu after the flu shot, they are either: (a) getting it before the shot's efficacy would have kicked in (ie, they get it three days after but the flu shot actually takes 2 weeks to improve your immune system) and it's a coincidence, or (b)they got a strain that the shot didn't immunize against.
3. Do you go around asking every healthy person you know if they've had a flu shot? Because most people who think they get the flu after the shot are pretty vocal about it, and most people who have good experiences just kind of go about their business.
so ... that's a "No" from you?
Just read the thread.
Got it0 -
I usually snark at the idea of being "triggered" and avoiding situations that "trigger" you. Honestly though, I have to admit, I get a bit "triggered" over this kind of thing. I just get so pissed off at the amount of frankly unwarranted distrust people have for the public health sector and this flippant attitude they take over vaccines. Vaccines...save...lives. They save lives based on the amount of overall compliance that society has in recieving the vaccines. It is a civic duty to get vaccinated. You feeling like you are a tough Ox who won't get sick anyway has nothing to do with that. The belief that vaccines are some sort of profit driven conspiracy is as ridiculous as chem-trails. The idea that you know better than the entire medical community cuz there was that one time where your friend got vaccinated and got sick after so I guess its not worth it somehow. What...the...hell. The medical community, the scientific community and all of the pulbic health sector isn't just making this up for fun okay, its important to get vaccinated...really. Get vaccinated...the end.
I'm just going to not read anymore of this to avoid the inevitable of me eventually just ripping into someone hard.30 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. Many people who think they have the flu when they get the flu shot have never actually had the flu. It's like a headache--some people think their headaches are migraines until they have a migraine. The magnitude is just different. You feel run-down, you feel bad, you may even get sick. But it's not as bad as the actual flu and certainly not life-threatening the way the flu is.JamestheLiar wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Never had one. Don't plan on getting one any time soon but when I'm older I might need them.
I don't view vaccines as being for yourself, they are for the community. Its a societal thing. I don't get a flu shot because I am super worried that I am going to get deathly ill from the flu, I get a flu shot because I view it as part of the protective shield helping stave off potentially life threatening diseases from the community as a whole. Not because I am old but because I might be around people who are.
I get the TDAP vaccine because I'm occassionally around children, not because I'm worried about pertussus for myself. I get the flu shot for similar reasons.
I view it as a civic duty. Unless I have a very good reason to not get one I get one and to date I haven't had a good reason to not get one. I have medical insurance so its 100% free, so why wouldn't I?
With everything its a cost:benefit analysis
Cost: No money. No risk of illness (other posters are right you cannot get sick from a flu vaccine).
Benefit: Possibly avoid the flu yourself. Avoid transmitting the flu to others.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have a question, and I'll admit that I did not read this thread, so it my already have been addressed. The fact is, I've never viewed the flu shot in the same manner as the person I quoted above, and his/her view makes a lot of sense in the Arena of Vaccines as a whole. However, unlike most other vaccines, almost everyone I know actually contracts the flu when they get the flu shot. Doesn't that negate the whole "protective shield" argument?
2. For people who actually get the flu after the flu shot, they are either: (a) getting it before the shot's efficacy would have kicked in (ie, they get it three days after but the flu shot actually takes 2 weeks to improve your immune system) and it's a coincidence, or (b)they got a strain that the shot didn't immunize against.
3. Do you go around asking every healthy person you know if they've had a flu shot? Because most people who think they get the flu after the shot are pretty vocal about it, and most people who have good experiences just kind of go about their business.
so ... that's a "No" from you?
Ah well, honestly thought you were interested in an actual discussion.
Your premise is faulty, and therefore your conclusion is invalid. So no.
I was honestly asking a question. Wrong forum, I guess.1 -
amyrebeccah wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »JamestheLiar wrote: »amyrebeccah wrote: »
1. Many people who think they have the flu when they get the flu shot have never actually had the flu. It's like a headache--some people think their headaches are migraines until they have a migraine. The magnitude is just different. You feel run-down, you feel bad, you may even get sick. But it's not as bad as the actual flu and certainly not life-threatening the way the flu is.JamestheLiar wrote: »Aaron_K123 wrote: »Never had one. Don't plan on getting one any time soon but when I'm older I might need them.
I don't view vaccines as being for yourself, they are for the community. Its a societal thing. I don't get a flu shot because I am super worried that I am going to get deathly ill from the flu, I get a flu shot because I view it as part of the protective shield helping stave off potentially life threatening diseases from the community as a whole. Not because I am old but because I might be around people who are.
I get the TDAP vaccine because I'm occassionally around children, not because I'm worried about pertussus for myself. I get the flu shot for similar reasons.
I view it as a civic duty. Unless I have a very good reason to not get one I get one and to date I haven't had a good reason to not get one. I have medical insurance so its 100% free, so why wouldn't I?
With everything its a cost:benefit analysis
Cost: No money. No risk of illness (other posters are right you cannot get sick from a flu vaccine).
Benefit: Possibly avoid the flu yourself. Avoid transmitting the flu to others.
Seems like a no brainer to me.
I have a question, and I'll admit that I did not read this thread, so it my already have been addressed. The fact is, I've never viewed the flu shot in the same manner as the person I quoted above, and his/her view makes a lot of sense in the Arena of Vaccines as a whole. However, unlike most other vaccines, almost everyone I know actually contracts the flu when they get the flu shot. Doesn't that negate the whole "protective shield" argument?
2. For people who actually get the flu after the flu shot, they are either: (a) getting it before the shot's efficacy would have kicked in (ie, they get it three days after but the flu shot actually takes 2 weeks to improve your immune system) and it's a coincidence, or (b)they got a strain that the shot didn't immunize against.
3. Do you go around asking every healthy person you know if they've had a flu shot? Because most people who think they get the flu after the shot are pretty vocal about it, and most people who have good experiences just kind of go about their business.
so ... that's a "No" from you?
Ah well, honestly thought you were interested in an actual discussion.
Your premise is faulty, and therefore your conclusion is invalid. So no.
I was honestly asking a question. Wrong forum, I guess.
Apparently, since a lengthy, thought-out answer wasn't good enough for you.
I'm not trying to be obtuse. I'm sure you're answer was a very good one, and I'm sure you're right that my question had a faulty premise and an invalid conclusion. I'll read the forum and see if anyone else asked the question better and got an answer.0 -
singingflutelady wrote: »
You can't get the flu from the shot rhoughI used to get one every year because I am mildly immunosuppressed (no spleen) but I would then get a fever and the flu within a few days. I found I would rather risk not getting the flu or getting the flu, and being a bit sicker for maybe a day or too longer, rather than guaranteeing myself a sickness.
For me, I skip the flu shot. Just a personal choice.
A fever and flu-like symptoms are an uncommon side effect of the vaccine. It is not flu, but the immune response to the vaccine can make you feel ill.
I'm for the vaccine unless contraindicated.
Personally, I get it every year because it's a condition of my employment. Every year, I end up with a swollen and sore shoulder for about a week after getting the shot because I'm sensitive to thimerosal and somehow the thimerosal-free vaccines are never available when and where I get mine.
I also get the fever and mild flu symptoms shortly after and, lucky me, I've had a cold within a month of getting the vaccine every year since I started This'll be my 10th. A PI I work with observed that my immune response to the vaccine is excessive, possibly because of the secondary insult from thimerosal and may be leaving me susceptible to illness for a couple of weeks after. Who knows. Since there's always colds going through the office, it's not too great a surprise that I catch it.
My general opinion is not improved by that I've been thoroughly educated on the relatively poor seroconversion of many years' flu vaccines so feel like I'm having these symptoms for little chance of personal benefit.
If I were >= 60, I'd be sure to get one every year, job requirement or no. The seroconversion rates are just above abysmal for that age group, but the complication risk for flu is so very high any chance that I'd be protected would be worth it.3 -
I get one every year.
I'm a strong believer in pack immunity, and the science behind the flu shot. And considering I don't have tons of PTO if I do get sick, if getting the shot puts me that much less at risk to wind up with the flu I will happily take it! Even if it does nothing, I'm willing to take that chance.
My shoulder hurts for a few days after, but I can still work with a hurt shoulder. With the flu, however..4 -
janejellyroll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »DeficitDuchess wrote: »It's very simple. The flu (Influenza) is caused by a virus. No amount of working out, or eating this or that is going to protect you from a virus. Unless you are a newborn, everyone has had the flu before. They might not know it, they might have mistaken it for a bad cold, but like the common cold, no one is immune from it, so, in my opinion, it only makes sense to get the flu shot. Why take a chance on getting sick if you can avoid it? JMO.
I disagree, if you survive a strain of something severe; it's possible to build an immunity to it, less severe strains & to other illnesses also! A perfect example is the Bubonic Plague, those that survived it passed along an immunity to AIDS; to their decedents via Delta 32!
Immunizations are the technological equivalence of passing immunity to a larger population. There is no legitimate argument against it unless you believe in non-intervention.
1. Bubonic plague is bacterial (Yersinia pestis) - not viral and easily resolved with antibiotics.
2. No one is immune to AIDS
About the AIDS thing. I have an online friend who has AIDS and an autoimmune disease (AIDS came first). The human body is very complex
AIDS is not a result of HIV (as the masses understand).
I cannot remember the PhD, but he was demonized in the 90's with his groundbreaking work in AIDS research. He hypothesized that AIDS was not due to HIV onset, but due to an over-stimulation of receptor sites aggravated by years of drug overuse. He was absolutely correct and many people diagnosed did not contract HIV. Five of the eight HIV vaccines in use today are a direct result from his research.
How did this doctor explain AIDS in people who never used drugs or used them rarely? And what do you mean when you say many people diagnosed never contracted HIV? They were diagnosed as HIV positive, but never contracted HIV? Or did you mean that many people who are HIV Positive have not contracted AIDS?
I don't remember any discussion on this. I only remember his presentation at a virology summit in the mid '90s and a demographic review which showed many of the subjects diagnosed with AIDS were frequent drug users. He showed that many of these subjects did not have HIV or AIDS. While he was on the wrong track his researched helped evolve a more accurate diagnostic device.1 -
janejellyroll wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »DeficitDuchess wrote: »It's very simple. The flu (Influenza) is caused by a virus. No amount of working out, or eating this or that is going to protect you from a virus. Unless you are a newborn, everyone has had the flu before. They might not know it, they might have mistaken it for a bad cold, but like the common cold, no one is immune from it, so, in my opinion, it only makes sense to get the flu shot. Why take a chance on getting sick if you can avoid it? JMO.
I disagree, if you survive a strain of something severe; it's possible to build an immunity to it, less severe strains & to other illnesses also! A perfect example is the Bubonic Plague, those that survived it passed along an immunity to AIDS; to their decedents via Delta 32!
Immunizations are the technological equivalence of passing immunity to a larger population. There is no legitimate argument against it unless you believe in non-intervention.
1. Bubonic plague is bacterial (Yersinia pestis) - not viral and easily resolved with antibiotics.
2. No one is immune to AIDS
About the AIDS thing. I have an online friend who has AIDS and an autoimmune disease (AIDS came first). The human body is very complex
AIDS is not a result of HIV (as the masses understand).
I cannot remember the PhD, but he was demonized in the 90's with his groundbreaking work in AIDS research. He hypothesized that AIDS was not due to HIV onset, but due to an over-stimulation of receptor sites aggravated by years of drug overuse. He was absolutely correct and many people diagnosed did not contract HIV. Five of the eight HIV vaccines in use today are a direct result from his research.
How did this doctor explain AIDS in people who never used drugs or used them rarely? And what do you mean when you say many people diagnosed never contracted HIV? They were diagnosed as HIV positive, but never contracted HIV? Or did you mean that many people who are HIV Positive have not contracted AIDS?
I don't remember any discussion on this. I only remember his presentation at a virology summit in the mid '90s and a demographic review which showed many of the subjects diagnosed with AIDS were frequent drug users. He showed that many of these subjects did not have HIV or AIDS. While he was on the wrong track his researched helped evolve a more accurate diagnostic device.
The idea that AIDS is related to drug use is a popular one in the HIV/AIDS denial community (it sounds as if this doctor may be a part of it). But it fails to account for the millions among the 35 million who have died of AIDS who didn't use drugs or used them rarely.3 -
My whole family used to get the flu shot faithfully. But right around the year H1N1 "swine" flu was a big thing, my spouse and kids started getting the flu every year, without fail. We always had the doctor test at least one of them, and it was always influenza. After several years of that, combined with the CDC admitting each year how ineffective the shot had been that flu season, we quit. The shot didn't appear to be lessening the severity of the flu, much less preventing it, so why bother?
The younger teen and the spouse have had the flu only once in the past four or five years, the older teen not at all. The kids also used to get other upper-respiratory infections pretty regularly, but hardly ever now that we've stopped the flu shots.
Didn't work for us. YMMV.
http://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/vaccination/effectiveness-studies.htm5 -
I've been getting one every year since my wife works in Healthcare and she brings home all the germs. Its even more important now that we have a newborn. I should note I have not gotten the flu since being vaccinated (i believe its also been a while since they guessed wrong on the strain).
We are about to put up the 'Do Not Pass Go, Do Not Collect $200' sign on anyone who wants to hold or touch Eli who is not vaccinated.
Ever since the Measles outbreak in CA the anit vax nonsense seems to have died down. A little harder to defend that position when someone now has to live with the knowledge that their child has died due to their poor choices of not vacinating against a completely preventable disease.
So you would prevent a family member from touching or holding your child if they couldn't be vaccinated due to allergies? You really ask everyone before holding your don if they have been vaccinated?
Until he is old enough to get his own vaccine then yes, unfortunately, they would not be able to hold him during peak flu season. Luckily, that has not been an issue up to this point.8 -
Against it. Only had a flu shot one time in my life and that's when I got the flu. Never get it again.0
-
A flu vax only ever has three or four strains of flu in them. These strains are the ones some scientists agree/thinks will be the ones to watch out for this year, the ones which will cause the most issues, in their view but others get through which are not covered by, this science as prepared for this year alone1
-
I don't get the shot.
A few years back my wife and kids all got the flu shot. I did not. A couple months later that all got the flu and I didn't.
But don't worry. So day HHS will find a back door means of mandating it for everyone.2 -
I get mine because of where I work...daycares are essentially petri dishes for any bug going around, and any extra immunity helps. This year mine and my husband's was free because I'm pregnant and due soon.2
This discussion has been closed.
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