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Flu shots? For them or against ?

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  • billglitch
    billglitch Posts: 538 Member
    edited November 2016
    the flu shot is just a guess as to the vaccine...no guarantees. I dont get them, never have and am not planning on it. Have not had the flu in over 30 years...I must be doing something right
  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    Dnarules wrote:
    the shot is not 100% effective, but usually you will get a milder case in that situation. My daughter got the flu a few years back even though she had been vaccinated, but it was fairly mild.
    This was me last year. Got the shot first thing in September when it was available, and sometime in spring I got laid up with the flu for several days (missed several days of work, felt lousy for longer) to the point that I missed work & ended up seeing my doctor (who diagnosed flu & said other people who got the shot early were also getting it) BUT I didn't end up in the ER or ICU or morgue, which are all likely outcomes if I got the actual full-blown disease.
  • OneHundredToLose
    OneHundredToLose Posts: 8,523 Member
    billglitch wrote: »
    the flu shot is just a guess as to the vaccine...no guarantees. I dont get them, never have and am not planning on it. Have not had the flu in over 30 years...I must be doing something right

    You're speaking from a position of ignorance. Please do some reading on how the flu shot works, what it protects against, and what it does not protect against before you speak authoritatively on the subject.
  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    Fuzzipeg wrote:
    What is the medium the jab is cultured on? mostly egg white.
    So you get the kind that's not cultured in eggs.
    Next objection?

    .
    Fuzzipeg wrote:
    Many of this kind of intervention use mercury as a preservative? Can't they find anything better?
    If you get one that's a single-dose type, there's no preservative because there's no need for it.
    When using the multi-dose vials, the preservative is there to prevent people being infected with nasty things like fungus & bacteria. Thimerosol is not the bad form of mercury that builds up in the body & causes nerve problems.
    Most childhood vaccines don't use thimerosol any more anyway.
    Here are some informational pages:
    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/thimerosal/index.html
    http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/thimerosal.htm
    http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm6430a3.htm#Tab.
  • billglitch
    billglitch Posts: 538 Member
    edited November 2016
    OneHundredToLose wrote: »
    billglitch wrote: »
    the flu shot is just a guess as to the vaccine...no guarantees. I dont get them, never have and am not planning on it. Have not had the flu in over 30 years...I must be doing something right

    You're speaking from a position of ignorance. Please do some reading on how the flu shot works, what it protects against, and what it does not protect against before you speak authoritatively on the subject.

    really? so they know exactly what strain is coming? NO they dont. Never said i was an authority...i gave my opinion and I thought thats what this was about. So take your arrogant crap and move on

  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    CharlieBeansmomTracey wrote:
    the vaccine only covers like 4 strains and they are all the previous years strains. so anyone still can get the flu and pass it on to others.
    The scientists look at the strains which are circulating in areas where they're likely to come here next, and incorporate those into our vaccine.
    The number of strains varies by year, and yes, it's possible some unvaccinated traveler could bring any strain into the US (being a carrier while asymptomatic before developing the illness).
    I'd rather take my chances on blocking the most likely strains instead of being completely vulnerable.

    .
    it also takes the vaccine 2 weeks to become effective as well. so in those 2 weeks you can still get those strains.
    And if you never get vaccinated, you can always get those strains.
    What's your point? Get vaccinated as early as possible?

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  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    cqbkaju wrote:
    Lowering your immune system for a chance of immunity to the wrong strain just makes you more susceptible to other things while your body develops resistance to that strain.
    That's not how the immune system works. It doesn't focus all it has on one thing at a time.
    (Though if it's working on something serious, yes, its response to new challenges will be less / slower... a good reason to get immunized, teach it to recognize a disease instead of having to fight it with no preparation.)
    You're exposed to lots of allergens every day, possibly dozens depending on what's blooming or shedding or where you walk, etc.

    .
    The flu isn't like measles or polio.
    You'll live if you catch the flu and your quality of life will not be impacted for the long-term.
    Maybe if you are elderly, etc. it is more dangerous to catch the flu, but I am talking about myself now.
    Probably. Maybe not.
    Part of what made the 1918 pandemic (which hit 1/3 of the population of the planet and killed more than 2.5%, compared to less than 0.1% in a normal pre-vaccine flu season) so dangerous is that it killed otherwise healthy people in the prime of life.

    "age-specific death rates in the 1918 pandemic exhibited a distinct pattern that has not been documented before or since:
    a "W-shaped" curve, similar to the familiar U-shaped curve but with the addition of a third (middle) distinct peak of deaths in young adults ≈20–40 years of age.
    Influenza and pneumonia death rates for those 15–34 years of age in 1918–1919, for example, were >20 times higher than in previous years.
    Overall, nearly half of the influenza-related deaths in the 1918 pandemic were in young adults 20–40 years of age, a phenomenon unique to that pandemic year.
    The 1918 pandemic is also unique among influenza pandemics in that absolute risk of influenza death was higher in those <65 years of age than in those >65; persons <65 years of age accounted for >99% of all excess influenza-related deaths in 1918–1919."

    http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/1/05-0979_article
  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    edited November 2016
    nvmomketo wrote:
    A girlfriend of mine had the chickenpox vaccine because she had never had it and wanted to be protected while trying to conceive. Within days she coincidentally developed chickenpox, with spots all over even though she does not believe she was exposed to it anywhere. The doctor adamantly argued that she contracted it before the shot. Coincidence.
    The doctor was uninformed, which is scary.

    I, too, developed a (fairly mild) case of chickenpox from being vaccinated, also as an adult. Spots here & there all over, very itchy, but nothing like the pictures in medical books of those poor unvaccinated children who are just covered in pox. :(
    Both the NP who originally saw me at the campus health clinic & the medical director (MD) she called in to confirm her diagnosis (because it is quite rare) were amazed.
  • nvmomketo
    nvmomketo Posts: 12,019 Member
    MKEgal wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote:
    A girlfriend of mine had the chickenpox vaccine because she had never had it and wanted to be protected while trying to conceive. Within days she coincidentally developed chickenpox, with spots all over even though she does not believe she was exposed to it anywhere. The doctor adamantly argued that she contracted it before the shot. Coincidence.
    The doctor was uninformed, which is scary.

    I, too, developed a (fairly mild) case of chickenpox from being vaccinated, also as an adult. Spots here & there all over, very itchy, but nothing like the pictures in medical books of those poor unvaccinated children who are just covered in pox. :(
    Both the NP who originally saw me at the campus health clinic & the medical director (MD) she called in to confirm her diagnosis (because it is quite rare) were amazed.

    I really wonder about chicken pox and the effectiveness of vaccinating. Since it stays in the body I think it might just be best to avoid it. This is coming from someone who had (diagnosed) chicken pox three times as a child and has had shingles once.
  • gillie80
    gillie80 Posts: 214 Member
    as another immunosupressed buddy i get one every year. have luckily only had the flu a few times in my adolescent years, but if i got it now i'm pretty screwed. need to make my appointment soon for this years jag.
  • one1fast68
    one1fast68 Posts: 51 Member
    I see a lot of posts about how many people die each year of the flu and how much lower your risk is of getting GBS...I personally have never known anyone that has died of the flu or know anyone that has told me they lost someone to flu. I do have a friend that lost his brother to GBS though. I'm just curious, because I see a lot of the statistics on the news - has anyone here known someone personally that has died of the flu?
  • RoteBook
    RoteBook Posts: 171 Member
    one1fast68 wrote: »
    I see a lot of posts about how many people die each year of the flu and how much lower your risk is of getting GBS...I personally have never known anyone that has died of the flu or know anyone that has told me they lost someone to flu. I do have a friend that lost his brother to GBS though. I'm just curious, because I see a lot of the statistics on the news - has anyone here known someone personally that has died of the flu?

    My grandmother died of pneumonia secondary to flu, and my husband's grandfather died from the flu. I've met one person with GBS, and she contracted it after having the flu.
  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
    Haven't read all the replies yet but - I get a flu shot every year. Never had one before having kids (and never has the flu). Once I had children I started getting the yearly jab. Still have never had the flu. I might not die or develop serious complications from the flu (right now I'm young and healthy so low risk), but I have four children, two of whom are under six. They get the shot yearly, my husband does as well (military), so I do it for solidarity, to prevent spreading it to others both in and out of my household, and because I cannot afford to be deathly ill for two plus weeks! The only negative is that a day or two later I'll feel kind of punky. But that's a good sign - it means I'm having an immune response and the shot is doing what it's supposed to do! A heck of a lot better than actually getting sick.

    Off to read the rest of the thread....

  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    edited November 2016
    tlflag1620 wrote: »
    Haven't read all the replies yet but - I get a flu shot every year. Never had one before having kids (and never has the flu). Once I had children I started getting the yearly jab. Still have never had the flu. I might not die or develop serious complications from the flu (right now I'm young and healthy so low risk), but I have four children, two of whom are under six. They get the shot yearly, my husband does as well (military), so I do it for solidarity, to prevent spreading it to others both in and out of my household, and because I cannot afford to be deathly ill for two plus weeks! The only negative is that a day or two later I'll feel kind of punky. But that's a good sign - it means I'm having an immune response and the shot is doing what it's supposed to do! A heck of a lot better than actually getting sick.

    Off to read the rest of the thread....

    That's because I am quite convinced that public schools are a long term social experiment to see if people are stupid enough to set off another plague epidemic via children, because it's much easier than the effort ot expense of private education.

    Pretty sure that no more efficient microbe incubators exist, outside of a contaminated AIDS ward.
  • tlflag1620
    tlflag1620 Posts: 1,358 Member
    Gallowmere1984 wrote: »
    tlflag1620 wrote: »
    Haven't read all the replies yet but - I get a flu shot every year. Never had one before having kids (and never has the flu). Once I had children I started getting the yearly jab. Still have never had the flu. I might not die or develop serious complications from the flu (right now I'm young and healthy so low risk), but I have four children, two of whom are under six. They get the shot yearly, my husband does as well (military), so I do it for solidarity, to prevent spreading it to others both in and out of my household, and because I cannot afford to be deathly ill for two plus weeks! The only negative is that a day or two later I'll feel kind of punky. But that's a good sign - it means I'm having an immune response and the shot is doing what it's supposed to do! A heck of a lot better than actually getting sick.

    Off to read the rest of the thread....

    That's because I am quite convinced that public schools are a long term social experiment to see if people are stupid enough to set off another plague epidemic via children, because it's much easier than the effort ot expense of private education.

    Pretty sure that no more efficient microbe incubators exist, outside of a contaminated AIDS ward.

    Did I miss something? Yes, putting large groups of people in a confined space (dorms, workplaces, barracks, prisons, and, yes, school, both public and private) means viruses will be spread more readily (that's why people get sick more often in the cold months - not that the cold weather has an effect, but people tend to congregate indoors together and spread their germs). So yes, having two school aged children means more germs get brought home. But no one in my house has ever had the flu (we all get vaccinated every October). Really my kids are pretty healthy (knock on wood). They get colds from time to time, sure. The older two have only had a handful of ear infections between them, the younger two have never had ear infections (yet), none of them have had strep throat (I used to get that like clockwork every year as a child).... We did have the norovirus sweep through the house last year, but there is no vax for that (and fortunately it is short lived and only 4/6 of us got hit hard, me and my at-the-time three year old seem to be resistant against that particular nasty). All in all we don't get sick much, and it's rare for us to need medical attention when we do get sick.

    Anywho... I guess I'm not understanding your comment. I get vax for the flu each year (and stay utd on other vax) to protect my children and my community, as well as myself. Before I had kids being out of commission for a couple weeks wouldn't have been such a big issue. With four kids to take care of I can't take the chance <shrug>. Not sure what that has to do with public school....

  • wanzik
    wanzik Posts: 326 Member
    WYMANT0004 wrote: »
    ...
    You might think from all of the above that I get the flu shot but the truth is I do not. There is a long reason behind why but I will just do the TL;DR version here -- I have my personal reasons and they quite literally apply to only me. However, for every other recommended vaccine (and quite a few others to boot, perks of my job) I have taken stab after stab after stab. And I will continue to do so for the simple fact that vaccines save lives. Period. End of discussion. You simply cannot argue with the numbers

    86ei4l2gf80p.jpg

    What that chart does NOT show is the instances of where there were little or no occurrences of something pre-vaccine era but many after. Are there any? And any suspected ties to vaccines? Just asking.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    edited November 2016
    stealthq wrote: »
    singingflutelady wrote: »
    nvmomketo wrote: »
    I used to get one every year because I am mildly immunosuppressed (no spleen) but I would then get a fever and the flu within a few days. I found I would rather risk not getting the flu or getting the flu, and being a bit sicker for maybe a day or too longer, rather than guaranteeing myself a sickness.

    For me, I skip the flu shot. Just a personal choice.
    You can't get the flu from the shot rhough

    A fever and flu-like symptoms are an uncommon side effect of the vaccine. It is not flu, but the immune response to the vaccine can make you feel ill.

    I'm for the vaccine unless contraindicated.

    Personally, I get it every year because it's a condition of my employment. Every year, I end up with a swollen and sore shoulder for about a week after getting the shot because I'm sensitive to thimerosal and somehow the thimerosal-free vaccines are never available when and where I get mine.

    I also get the fever and mild flu symptoms shortly after and, lucky me, I've had a cold within a month of getting the vaccine every year since I started This'll be my 10th. A PI I work with observed that my immune response to the vaccine is excessive, possibly because of the secondary insult from thimerosal and may be leaving me susceptible to illness for a couple of weeks after. Who knows. Since there's always colds going through the office, it's not too great a surprise that I catch it.

    My general opinion is not improved by that I've been thoroughly educated on the relatively poor seroconversion of many years' flu vaccines so feel like I'm having these symptoms for little chance of personal benefit.

    If I were >= 60, I'd be sure to get one every year, job requirement or no. The seroconversion rates are just above abysmal for that age group, but the complication risk for flu is so very high any chance that I'd be protected would be worth it.

    So after bitching about always having to get the vaccine with thimerosal, I go to my yearly dose a couple of days ago and guess what - all the vaccine available was thimerosal-free and the shot, not the spray.

    It's been great - a minor but bone deep ache in the arm that received the injection that just lasted the night and some soreness to the touch after. No fever that I'd usually get the next day. No headache, mild or otherwise, and no swelling or limited arm movement.

    The nurse administering the shot told me they'd determined from employee complaints year after year that the vaccine with thimerosal wasn't worth it so they've decided to just use the other version exclusively. I bet there was a spike in PTO that coincided with the time we all get the vaccine that influenced that decision.
  • Fuzzipeg
    Fuzzipeg Posts: 2,303 Member
    Why not take dietary steps to improve your and your child's immune systems? As mothers we do not always pass on all the protection we should because we are lacking and so it goes on.

    Vitamins, minerals, prebiotcs, not to mention for adults to ensure you have sufficient iodine in your system because it is essential for all the mucus membranes in the body and so very much more. These membranes are your immune system at work preventing ingress of germs and viruses.

    Having healthy digestion supports the immune system because it is the foundation of the immune system. Ensure you have a balanced healthy diet. If you have ever taken a course of antibiotics take a prebiotic to address the cultures lost to this treatments in discriminant attack on every microbe in our bodies not just those causing the reason for the product.

    Just a thought, because as someone who's system needs careful treatment now, I will never have a flu jab again. I no longer have chest infections.
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