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NYT article about obesity stating it's genetic, not lack of willpower
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jenniferinfl wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
You are missing the point that matters. What I hate most about being obese, is that people assume that I eat everything that isn't bolted down AND I'm lazy. People who have spent their entire lives skinny think about what they eat and assume that you are eating double what they eat. That's the part that needs to change because that's the part that isn't true. I know skinny people who occasionally go on diets, they lose that last ten lbs in 2 weeks or so by just quitting pizza and not calorie counting at all. I mean, seriously? They aren't working harder, they aren't smarter, they aren't better, they are just one of those lucky people blessed with muscles which are wasteful and obese people have muscles which are thrifty. It's all genetic. 70% of weight is genetic. Compare that to height, 80% of your height is genetic, but, you don't see a bunch of ads around encouraging you to diet down to a more petite stature. People generally accept that height is not changing.
For a scientific article on differences in the genetically lean: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
Yeah, if you have to count every calorie and log it and double your activity to make a measly lb a week shift, you may be genetically obese. If you just quit eating pizza and lost all the weight, you are probably genetically predestined to be lean anyways.
There are some genetically thin people who have managed to make themselves obese. But, those are the people eating a whole chocolate cake or ordering a large pizza and eating the whole thing. Genetically thin people have to be outright gluttons to get obese and as soon as they just stop eating pizza (or pick any one similar food) the weight melts off without much exercise or thought into it. I don't know ANY obese people like that. All the obese people I know, eat less and weigh more than thin people.
The thing that really grinds me, is that someone who is genetically destined to be obese who has finally toughed it through the hunger and sweat to be thin is just lumped in with the genetically thin who have been thin the whole time eating candy, drinking alcohol, ordering appetizers before their steak dinner and so on.
I have a couple genetically thin friends. One of them eats an EASY 3000 calories for lunch and brings in candy everyday and then still eats some pasta dish for dinner every night. She gets like 3000 steps per day on her fitbit. Once a month or so she brings her kids to the pool at the YMCA and REALLY believes that the half hour she stands in the pool during swim class once a month is the activity that keeps her thin.
I don't want to lose all the weight and finally have my thin coworker act like I've learned her secrets to being thin. Give me a break. She should need a bigger door cut. If I ate like her I would qualify for "My 600lb Life". It's just absolutely not fair that thin people are glorified when most of them just lucked into it like a trust fund baby.
The thin you EARNED is worth way more than that.
I think that the genetic component being common knowledge would result in people being more understanding. Hopefully it would cut down on the naturally thin giving diet advice. I would love to never have another thin person tell me I could be thin too if I just ate candy only twice a week. Like, seriously? The last time I had candy was a single Cadbury egg around Easter time. I eat candy MAYBE 5 times per year. I've been told I should cut down to pizza once a week. At that point, I hadn't had pizza in YEARS.
Yeah, a lot of these thin people need to know they just lucked into it. I'm so tired of hearing them talk about how they got a salad once 2 weeks ago and that's why they're thin. (Meanwhile salad they got had more calories than the steak dinner but they don't even know what a calorie is because they've never had to know their entire lives)
Alright, rant over. A lot of thin people are naturally thin while eating more and moving less. A lot of obese people are eating less and moving more to still be obese. It isn't fair. It's up to you whether or not you want to swim upstream.
I choose to swim upstream, but, I know that it is a situation which is not fair.
Then they're either calculating calories in incorrectly or calories out incorrectly.8 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
You are missing the point that matters. What I hate most about being obese, is that people assume that I eat everything that isn't bolted down AND I'm lazy. People who have spent their entire lives skinny think about what they eat and assume that you are eating double what they eat. That's the part that needs to change because that's the part that isn't true. I know skinny people who occasionally go on diets, they lose that last ten lbs in 2 weeks or so by just quitting pizza and not calorie counting at all. I mean, seriously? They aren't working harder, they aren't smarter, they aren't better, they are just one of those lucky people blessed with muscles which are wasteful and obese people have muscles which are thrifty. It's all genetic. 70% of weight is genetic. Compare that to height, 80% of your height is genetic, but, you don't see a bunch of ads around encouraging you to diet down to a more petite stature. People generally accept that height is not changing.
For a scientific article on differences in the genetically lean: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
Yeah, if you have to count every calorie and log it and double your activity to make a measly lb a week shift, you may be genetically obese. If you just quit eating pizza and lost all the weight, you are probably genetically predestined to be lean anyways.
There are some genetically thin people who have managed to make themselves obese. But, those are the people eating a whole chocolate cake or ordering a large pizza and eating the whole thing. Genetically thin people have to be outright gluttons to get obese and as soon as they just stop eating pizza (or pick any one similar food) the weight melts off without much exercise or thought into it. I don't know ANY obese people like that. All the obese people I know, eat less and weigh more than thin people.
The thing that really grinds me, is that someone who is genetically destined to be obese who has finally toughed it through the hunger and sweat to be thin is just lumped in with the genetically thin who have been thin the whole time eating candy, drinking alcohol, ordering appetizers before their steak dinner and so on.
I have a couple genetically thin friends. One of them eats an EASY 3000 calories for lunch and brings in candy everyday and then still eats some pasta dish for dinner every night. She gets like 3000 steps per day on her fitbit. Once a month or so she brings her kids to the pool at the YMCA and REALLY believes that the half hour she stands in the pool during swim class once a month is the activity that keeps her thin.
I don't want to lose all the weight and finally have my thin coworker act like I've learned her secrets to being thin. Give me a break. She should need a bigger door cut. If I ate like her I would qualify for "My 600lb Life". It's just absolutely not fair that thin people are glorified when most of them just lucked into it like a trust fund baby.
The thin you EARNED is worth way more than that.
I think that the genetic component being common knowledge would result in people being more understanding. Hopefully it would cut down on the naturally thin giving diet advice. I would love to never have another thin person tell me I could be thin too if I just ate candy only twice a week. Like, seriously? The last time I had candy was a single Cadbury egg around Easter time. I eat candy MAYBE 5 times per year. I've been told I should cut down to pizza once a week. At that point, I hadn't had pizza in YEARS.
Yeah, a lot of these thin people need to know they just lucked into it. I'm so tired of hearing them talk about how they got a salad once 2 weeks ago and that's why they're thin. (Meanwhile salad they got had more calories than the steak dinner but they don't even know what a calorie is because they've never had to know their entire lives)
Alright, rant over. A lot of thin people are naturally thin while eating more and moving less. A lot of obese people are eating less and moving more to still be obese. It isn't fair. It's up to you whether or not you want to swim upstream. I choose to swim upstream, but, I know that it is a situation which is not fair.
Are you aware that the types of food you eat is not responsible for your inability to lose weight? You aren't automatically entitled (although I bet it feels like that denying yourself) to lose weight because you cut out a specific thing you like. You failed to create a caloric deficit. You can get plenty overweight on avocados and brown rice.
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jenniferinfl wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
You are missing the point that matters. What I hate most about being obese, is that people assume that I eat everything that isn't bolted down AND I'm lazy. People who have spent their entire lives skinny think about what they eat and assume that you are eating double what they eat. That's the part that needs to change because that's the part that isn't true. I know skinny people who occasionally go on diets, they lose that last ten lbs in 2 weeks or so by just quitting pizza and not calorie counting at all. I mean, seriously? They aren't working harder, they aren't smarter, they aren't better, they are just one of those lucky people blessed with muscles which are wasteful and obese people have muscles which are thrifty. It's all genetic. 70% of weight is genetic. Compare that to height, 80% of your height is genetic, but, you don't see a bunch of ads around encouraging you to diet down to a more petite stature. People generally accept that height is not changing.
For a scientific article on differences in the genetically lean: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
Yeah, if you have to count every calorie and log it and double your activity to make a measly lb a week shift, you may be genetically obese. If you just quit eating pizza and lost all the weight, you are probably genetically predestined to be lean anyways.
There are some genetically thin people who have managed to make themselves obese. But, those are the people eating a whole chocolate cake or ordering a large pizza and eating the whole thing. Genetically thin people have to be outright gluttons to get obese and as soon as they just stop eating pizza (or pick any one similar food) the weight melts off without much exercise or thought into it. I don't know ANY obese people like that. All the obese people I know, eat less and weigh more than thin people.
The thing that really grinds me, is that someone who is genetically destined to be obese who has finally toughed it through the hunger and sweat to be thin is just lumped in with the genetically thin who have been thin the whole time eating candy, drinking alcohol, ordering appetizers before their steak dinner and so on.
I have a couple genetically thin friends. One of them eats an EASY 3000 calories for lunch and brings in candy everyday and then still eats some pasta dish for dinner every night. She gets like 3000 steps per day on her fitbit. Once a month or so she brings her kids to the pool at the YMCA and REALLY believes that the half hour she stands in the pool during swim class once a month is the activity that keeps her thin.
I don't want to lose all the weight and finally have my thin coworker act like I've learned her secrets to being thin. Give me a break. She should need a bigger door cut. If I ate like her I would qualify for "My 600lb Life". It's just absolutely not fair that thin people are glorified when most of them just lucked into it like a trust fund baby.
The thin you EARNED is worth way more than that.
I think that the genetic component being common knowledge would result in people being more understanding. Hopefully it would cut down on the naturally thin giving diet advice. I would love to never have another thin person tell me I could be thin too if I just ate candy only twice a week. Like, seriously? The last time I had candy was a single Cadbury egg around Easter time. I eat candy MAYBE 5 times per year. I've been told I should cut down to pizza once a week. At that point, I hadn't had pizza in YEARS.
Yeah, a lot of these thin people need to know they just lucked into it. I'm so tired of hearing them talk about how they got a salad once 2 weeks ago and that's why they're thin. (Meanwhile salad they got had more calories than the steak dinner but they don't even know what a calorie is because they've never had to know their entire lives)
Alright, rant over. A lot of thin people are naturally thin while eating more and moving less. A lot of obese people are eating less and moving more to still be obese. It isn't fair. It's up to you whether or not you want to swim upstream. I choose to swim upstream, but, I know that it is a situation which is not fair.
So I take it you didn't read the thread, where this was discussed multiple times, that unless you are with someone 24/7 - you really have no idea what these supposedly "genetically thin" people are eating OR what their activity level is like.
I'm curious about the context of these conversations though, where a thin person suggests that if you only ate candy twice a week you'd lose weight too. Are you talking about your struggles with losing weight? Why would they bring up their eating habits? Or is this completely unsolicited advice?2 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
You are missing the point that matters. What I hate most about being obese, is that people assume that I eat everything that isn't bolted down AND I'm lazy. People who have spent their entire lives skinny think about what they eat and assume that you are eating double what they eat. That's the part that needs to change because that's the part that isn't true. I know skinny people who occasionally go on diets, they lose that last ten lbs in 2 weeks or so by just quitting pizza and not calorie counting at all. I mean, seriously? They aren't working harder, they aren't smarter, they aren't better, they are just one of those lucky people blessed with muscles which are wasteful and obese people have muscles which are thrifty. It's all genetic. 70% of weight is genetic. Compare that to height, 80% of your height is genetic, but, you don't see a bunch of ads around encouraging you to diet down to a more petite stature. People generally accept that height is not changing.
For a scientific article on differences in the genetically lean: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
Yeah, if you have to count every calorie and log it and double your activity to make a measly lb a week shift, you may be genetically obese. If you just quit eating pizza and lost all the weight, you are probably genetically predestined to be lean anyways.
There are some genetically thin people who have managed to make themselves obese. But, those are the people eating a whole chocolate cake or ordering a large pizza and eating the whole thing. Genetically thin people have to be outright gluttons to get obese and as soon as they just stop eating pizza (or pick any one similar food) the weight melts off without much exercise or thought into it. I don't know ANY obese people like that. All the obese people I know, eat less and weigh more than thin people.
The thing that really grinds me, is that someone who is genetically destined to be obese who has finally toughed it through the hunger and sweat to be thin is just lumped in with the genetically thin who have been thin the whole time eating candy, drinking alcohol, ordering appetizers before their steak dinner and so on.
I have a couple genetically thin friends. One of them eats an EASY 3000 calories for lunch and brings in candy everyday and then still eats some pasta dish for dinner every night. She gets like 3000 steps per day on her fitbit. Once a month or so she brings her kids to the pool at the YMCA and REALLY believes that the half hour she stands in the pool during swim class once a month is the activity that keeps her thin.
I don't want to lose all the weight and finally have my thin coworker act like I've learned her secrets to being thin. Give me a break. She should need a bigger door cut. If I ate like her I would qualify for "My 600lb Life". It's just absolutely not fair that thin people are glorified when most of them just lucked into it like a trust fund baby.
The thin you EARNED is worth way more than that.
I think that the genetic component being common knowledge would result in people being more understanding. Hopefully it would cut down on the naturally thin giving diet advice. I would love to never have another thin person tell me I could be thin too if I just ate candy only twice a week. Like, seriously? The last time I had candy was a single Cadbury egg around Easter time. I eat candy MAYBE 5 times per year. I've been told I should cut down to pizza once a week. At that point, I hadn't had pizza in YEARS.
Yeah, a lot of these thin people need to know they just lucked into it. I'm so tired of hearing them talk about how they got a salad once 2 weeks ago and that's why they're thin. (Meanwhile salad they got had more calories than the steak dinner but they don't even know what a calorie is because they've never had to know their entire lives)
Alright, rant over. A lot of thin people are naturally thin while eating more and moving less. A lot of obese people are eating less and moving more to still be obese. It isn't fair. It's up to you whether or not you want to swim upstream. I choose to swim upstream, but, I know that it is a situation which is not fair.
Or not... and the thin folks are eating fewer calories and more active than you actually think and the obese are in denial about what they are actually eating...
https://youtu.be/KA9AdlhB18o
https://youtu.be/bYJrC3RTtgQ 6 -
The_Enginerd wrote: »jenniferinfl wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
You are missing the point that matters. What I hate most about being obese, is that people assume that I eat everything that isn't bolted down AND I'm lazy. People who have spent their entire lives skinny think about what they eat and assume that you are eating double what they eat. That's the part that needs to change because that's the part that isn't true. I know skinny people who occasionally go on diets, they lose that last ten lbs in 2 weeks or so by just quitting pizza and not calorie counting at all. I mean, seriously? They aren't working harder, they aren't smarter, they aren't better, they are just one of those lucky people blessed with muscles which are wasteful and obese people have muscles which are thrifty. It's all genetic. 70% of weight is genetic. Compare that to height, 80% of your height is genetic, but, you don't see a bunch of ads around encouraging you to diet down to a more petite stature. People generally accept that height is not changing.
For a scientific article on differences in the genetically lean: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
Yeah, if you have to count every calorie and log it and double your activity to make a measly lb a week shift, you may be genetically obese. If you just quit eating pizza and lost all the weight, you are probably genetically predestined to be lean anyways.
There are some genetically thin people who have managed to make themselves obese. But, those are the people eating a whole chocolate cake or ordering a large pizza and eating the whole thing. Genetically thin people have to be outright gluttons to get obese and as soon as they just stop eating pizza (or pick any one similar food) the weight melts off without much exercise or thought into it. I don't know ANY obese people like that. All the obese people I know, eat less and weigh more than thin people.
The thing that really grinds me, is that someone who is genetically destined to be obese who has finally toughed it through the hunger and sweat to be thin is just lumped in with the genetically thin who have been thin the whole time eating candy, drinking alcohol, ordering appetizers before their steak dinner and so on.
I have a couple genetically thin friends. One of them eats an EASY 3000 calories for lunch and brings in candy everyday and then still eats some pasta dish for dinner every night. She gets like 3000 steps per day on her fitbit. Once a month or so she brings her kids to the pool at the YMCA and REALLY believes that the half hour she stands in the pool during swim class once a month is the activity that keeps her thin.
I don't want to lose all the weight and finally have my thin coworker act like I've learned her secrets to being thin. Give me a break. She should need a bigger door cut. If I ate like her I would qualify for "My 600lb Life". It's just absolutely not fair that thin people are glorified when most of them just lucked into it like a trust fund baby.
The thin you EARNED is worth way more than that.
I think that the genetic component being common knowledge would result in people being more understanding. Hopefully it would cut down on the naturally thin giving diet advice. I would love to never have another thin person tell me I could be thin too if I just ate candy only twice a week. Like, seriously? The last time I had candy was a single Cadbury egg around Easter time. I eat candy MAYBE 5 times per year. I've been told I should cut down to pizza once a week. At that point, I hadn't had pizza in YEARS.
Yeah, a lot of these thin people need to know they just lucked into it. I'm so tired of hearing them talk about how they got a salad once 2 weeks ago and that's why they're thin. (Meanwhile salad they got had more calories than the steak dinner but they don't even know what a calorie is because they've never had to know their entire lives)
Alright, rant over. A lot of thin people are naturally thin while eating more and moving less. A lot of obese people are eating less and moving more to still be obese. It isn't fair. It's up to you whether or not you want to swim upstream. I choose to swim upstream, but, I know that it is a situation which is not fair.
Or not... and the thin folks are eating fewer calories and more active than you actually think and the obese are in denial about what they are actually eating...https://youtu.be/KA9AdlhB18ohttps://youtu.be/bYJrC3RTtgQ
Thank you, I was trying to find that earlier!
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jenniferinfl wrote: »BrunetteRunner87 wrote: »I just saw this article in the New York Times today:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/01/health/americans-obesity-willpower-genetics-study.html?&moduleDetail=section-news-2&action=click&contentCollection=Health®ion=Footer&module=MoreInSection&version=WhatsNext&contentID=WhatsNext&pgtype=article&_r=0
I don't generally tend to put much stock in what the NYT says, but is it possible that obesity can't be helped by willpower? Should we bother to try to lose weight? My first thought about this is that it's a load of crap, but if it's what science says how can I dispute it?
You are missing the point that matters. What I hate most about being obese, is that people assume that I eat everything that isn't bolted down AND I'm lazy. People who have spent their entire lives skinny think about what they eat and assume that you are eating double what they eat.
Some of this is projection on your part. Most people probably don't think about others all that much or assume they are fortunate if they indeed don't have to think about their weight much. My sister has always been thin and even though she works at it (she exercises a lot), she tends to see it as her being naturally thin and doesn't think I ate much more than she does when I was fat (I actually did, at least at times).
I do agree that it's annoying that some people likely assume you are a huge pig or, especially, that you are always eating donuts and fast food (which I did not do when fat). When I was heavier I was actually self-conscious about eating much at all around others and would always pick the lower cal/healthier option because I was afraid of judgment, but I suspect that was me more than anyone else. I also would say that I dislike the stereotype that one must eat a whole lot to be fat, as you can gain a lot of weight not eating that much, but just somewhat over your TDEE for a while. I gained weight largely when I was going through some stuff, became abruptly sedentary, but didn't change my diet from what had been appropriate when I did a lot of cardio (so I was eating around 2100 to 2200 calories). Hardly some enormous amount, and reasonably healthy choices, but too much for me when I'm not that active.I mean, seriously? They aren't working harder, they aren't smarter, they aren't better, they are just one of those lucky people blessed with muscles which are wasteful and obese people have muscles which are thrifty.
Eh. They aren't smarter, sure, and they might not be working harder, for them, as they may have found a way to eat and be active that they don't have to think about, but the idea that thin people never think about it or work at it is wrong, IMO, and also it's completely not useful to be resentful about.It's all genetic. 70% of weight is genetic. Compare that to height, 80% of your height is genetic, but, you don't see a bunch of ads around encouraging you to diet down to a more petite stature. People generally accept that height is not changing.
That there are genetic influences does not mean it's set in stone. Again, the weight of the country on average has increased significantly over the past 30 years. That's not because we are all genetically preprogrammed weights. I can lose weight, I cannot increase my height, not now.There are some genetically thin people who have managed to make themselves obese. But, those are the people eating a whole chocolate cake or ordering a large pizza and eating the whole thing. Genetically thin people have to be outright gluttons to get obese and as soon as they just stop eating pizza (or pick any one similar food) the weight melts off without much exercise or thought into it. I don't know ANY obese people like that. All the obese people I know, eat less and weigh more than thin people.
The thing that really grinds me, is that someone who is genetically destined to be obese who has finally toughed it through the hunger and sweat to be thin is just lumped in with the genetically thin who have been thin the whole time eating candy, drinking alcohol, ordering appetizers before their steak dinner and so on.
Where do you get this idea that there are the -- as I think you are saying -- deserving obese and the undeserving obese. People who should be shamed for being obese (they must be huge gluttons -- and I guess this is anyone who is successful in losing?) and those who can't help it? That seems like a way to tell yourself not to be inspired by others losing and that you cannot change anything for yourself. Or else that for you its harder and more praiseworthy to lose, but for others it is easy and doesn't count, it's a worthless achievement.
And like others are saying, you don't know what others do when you aren't around, how hard they work.
In college and even law school I was into the idea that smart people didn't have to work, at all. I pretended not to. My boyfriend at the time even got annoyed with me because he said it wasn't fair that I blew everything off and did better on tests than him. It was a pride thing for me to pretend like I wasn't studious and didn't care, but did well anyway. It was a front. Similarly with weight loss, some find it more appealing to talk about it as really hard, to focus on the difficulties and vent, it probably is a way of encouraging themselves. Others find it easier to minimize those things. You don't know. You certainly don't know it's more difficult for you than anyone else.6 -
mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.0 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
Are you with her all day everyday to know for sure she wears her fitbit all day everyday? I know tons of people who charge them and forget to put them back on until hours later.3 -
@CSARdiver
Since you cannot find the science in my post, here it is: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
And another study: http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v6/n3/abs/nrg1556.html
And another study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18842775
And yet another study: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1400613?rss=searchAndBrowse&#t=article
Obesity is genetic. Science knows that beyond refute. Scientist's KNOW that obesity and thinness are genetic. It's the entire fat-shaming population that wants to plug their ears to it the same as they plug their ears and hum over global warming.
I don't mean that people cannot lose weight, they can, just for a lot of the population it is going to be very, very hard to lose weight and keep it off. It can be done, but, it is not the same as being a person who is genetically thin.
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jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
Why are you spending so much time and energy thinking about your friend's activity level and estimating what you believe that she consumes calorie wise?
Why not just focus on how you are going to achieve your own goals?7 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
People who weigh 120 lbs and burn 3000-5000 calories consistently without being active don't exist. No matter how much "metabolism" varies, what you are saying is not possible. Unless she has this very rare disease that only a handful of people in the world have (and believe you would know if she does) this is impossible. Just like "premonition dreams", we tend to strongly favor remembering them but not all the other dreams that didn't come true, you are strongly favoring remembering the times she ate a lot but not all the times she didn't. Her portions look larger to you than your portions look to you because you have these preconceived notions about her eating behavior. You also have no idea if she wears her fitbit the whole time or how she eats at home. Fitbit doesn't pick up stationary cycling, for example, among other things.
You just would rather believe that your friend is a special case way off the charts of any documented metabolic differences (she should be studied for science if this is the case) than believe that you're not genetically doomed because, in your mind, that means you ate too much (which you likely did, and I did too). It more about what you do eat, not what you don't eat. Not eating pizza and chocolate does not mean you aren't overeating other things, and there is no shame in that.7 -
BurlzGettingFit wrote: »jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
Are you with her all day everyday to know for sure she wears her fitbit all day everyday? I know tons of people who charge them and forget to put them back on until hours later.
She states that she only gets about 3500 steps a day and needs to move more. She offers me unsolicited advice. She asks me why in the world I'm getting 15000 steps a day, she says it isn't necessary because she 'loses' weight at 3500 steps. She says that's the adult average anyways. I absolutely do not know what she eats at home. I know that in a typical day she eats 2 sausage and egg biscuits from the local gas station. They are 450 calories each. She also has a 32 ounce Mountain Dew slushie which is 460 calories. ( breakfast is 1360 calories so far) For lunch, she gets a large Little Caesers pizza and eats half of it. Last I checked, that's 1000 calories for the plain cheese, I'm not going to bother checking the pepperoni, so now we're at 2360. She also usually eats one king sized bag of peanut M&M's, that's another 480 calories. (Obviously, we're closing in on 3000 calories already. She also consumes several of those Kuerig latte's, but, I'm not going to bother checking the calories in that, she's already at 3000 calories) When she doesn't get pizza, she goes to burger king and gets 2 whoppers, a large fry and sometimes also an order of cheese sticks. When she doesn't get the cheese sticks, she's at 1840 for lunch- so, 3680 calories on a day she goes to burger king instead of little caeser's.
So, yes, I can only go by her fitbit numbers and the fact that she says she doesn't exercise. I also ONLY know what I see her eat at work. I have no idea how much more she eats at home. But, even if she skips dinner, she should weigh over 200 lbs with her consumption.0 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »
@CSARdiver
Since you cannot find the science in my post, here it is: http://gradworks.umi.com/37/32/3732324.html
And another study: http://www.nature.com/nrg/journal/v6/n3/abs/nrg1556.html
And another study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18842775
And yet another study: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp1400613?rss=searchAndBrowse&#t=article
Obesity is genetic. Science knows that beyond refute. Scientist's KNOW that obesity and thinness are genetic. It's the entire fat-shaming population that wants to plug their ears to it the same as they plug their ears and hum over global warming.
I don't mean that people cannot lose weight, they can, just for a lot of the population it is going to be very, very hard to lose weight and keep it off. It can be done, but, it is not the same as being a person who is genetically thin.
1st link is a rat study.
2nd link is behind a pay wall.
3rd link if I'm reading the abstract correctly was a study done on 21 people and I believe is suggesting that if you lose weight your BMR declines.
4th link is an article.
There are scientists studying how much of a role genetics plays in obesity, and as many here have said I'm sure it's a factor, but it is in no way a scientific fact that obesity is genetic.
Most people would say I'm naturally thin. They see me eat fast food and pizza, drink beer, and never hear me talking about my food choices or the gym. Many people have said to me how lucky I am to be thin. Luck my *kitten*.
I have logged on MFP for over 1,000 consecutive days. I use a food scale for everything I eat/prepare at home and I make choices at fast food, sit down restaurants, and other peoples homes that I know will fit my calorie allotment. If I know there will be cake, I skip breakfast. I work out 4 times a week, and take walks every day. I do the work, I just do it in the privacy of my home. Almost all of my relatives are overweight.
MFP is full of people who were sure they were just meant to be obese, until they started accurately and consistently logging food and exercise. Obviously there are exceptions, which usually involve a medical condition that affects CO.
As far as I'm concerned, it's just as insulting to say most thin people are naturally thin as it is to say that most overweight people are lazy.14 -
jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
Almost anyone would become obese on those calories. You are quite obviously way overestimating her intake because no one is exempt from the laws of thermodynamics. Is she seeking medical attention or being studied by science for being a unicorn?5 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
People who weigh 120 lbs and burn 3000-5000 calories consistently without being active don't exist. No matter how much "metabolism" varies, what you are saying is not possible. Unless she has this very rare disease that only a handful of people in the world have (and believe you would know if she does) this is impossible. Just like "premonition dreams", we tend to strongly favor remembering them but not all the other dreams that didn't come true, you are strongly favoring remembering the times she ate a lot but not all the times she didn't. Her portions look larger to you than your portions look to you because you have these preconceived notions about her eating behavior. You also have no idea if she wears her fitbit the whole time or how she eats at home. Fitbit doesn't pick up stationary cycling, for example, among other things.
You just would rather believe that your friend is a special case way off the charts of any documented metabolic differences (she should be studied for science if this is the case) than believe that you're not genetically doomed because, in your mind, that means you ate too much (which you likely did, and I did too). It more about what you do eat, not what you don't eat. Not eating pizza and chocolate does not mean you aren't overeating other things, and there is no shame in that.
Except that they absolutely DO exist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hbsk2
This program was about the work of Ethan Sims where prison inmates were offered early release in exchange for weight gain for a scientific study. Some could not gain on 10,000 calories per day. So, yeah, just science.. Or, maybe it's witches..3 -
@jenniferinfl how long did it take you to get to goal(if you did)? do you believe it was more difficult for you because of your genetics? Or if you didn't get there do you believe your genetics played a role?0
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jenniferinfl wrote: »amusedmonkey wrote: »jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
People who weigh 120 lbs and burn 3000-5000 calories consistently without being active don't exist. No matter how much "metabolism" varies, what you are saying is not possible. Unless she has this very rare disease that only a handful of people in the world have (and believe you would know if she does) this is impossible. Just like "premonition dreams", we tend to strongly favor remembering them but not all the other dreams that didn't come true, you are strongly favoring remembering the times she ate a lot but not all the times she didn't. Her portions look larger to you than your portions look to you because you have these preconceived notions about her eating behavior. You also have no idea if she wears her fitbit the whole time or how she eats at home. Fitbit doesn't pick up stationary cycling, for example, among other things.
You just would rather believe that your friend is a special case way off the charts of any documented metabolic differences (she should be studied for science if this is the case) than believe that you're not genetically doomed because, in your mind, that means you ate too much (which you likely did, and I did too). It more about what you do eat, not what you don't eat. Not eating pizza and chocolate does not mean you aren't overeating other things, and there is no shame in that.
Except that they absolutely DO exist.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00hbsk2
This program was about the work of Ethan Sims where prison inmates were offered early release in exchange for weight gain for a scientific study. Some could not gain on 10,000 calories per day. So, yeah, just science.. Or, maybe it's witches..
I'm aware of this program, and every single one of the participants either gained weight or dropped out due to not being able to eat the required 5000 calories (for men, less for women). Those who gained the least weight increased their non-exercise activity dramatically. They just moved more.9 -
That's interesting, I didn't know about that.
Which only compounds the fact that BMI was never meant to be used the way it is. In fact, its creator (who designed it for statistical purposes across large populations) issued a warning with it that it should never be used as a health marker for individuals.
Caused me all kinds of issues when I was 17 & it said I had a considerable weight problem at 200lbs. Of course no one ever stopped to consider the fact that I was lifting weights like it was a second job & had 14% body fat.0 -
WinoGelato wrote: »jenniferinfl wrote: »mrsnattybulking wrote: »@jenniferinfl You don't know what they eat or don't eat when they get home, nor do you know their activity level. I bet people see me in a McDonald's and curse me just the same. Never mind the 12-15K steps I take in a day or the lifting 3/week.
I do know, she's my fitbit friend. It wouldn't matter if she ate nothing when she got home. I've logged her at over 3000-5000 calories at work, just the things I've seen her eat.. and I KNOW she hasn't taken more than 3500 steps per day in the last 5 months. She has been 120 lbs the whole time.
Why are you spending so much time and energy thinking about your friend's activity level and estimating what you believe that she consumes calorie wise?
Why not just focus on how you are going to achieve your own goals?
I do mostly try to focus on my own journey, but, I'm lucky to have the cognitive ability to be capable of focusing on many things at once. You know, I don't just log my food and walk and chat on message boards. I also go to a full-time job, home-school my daughter, entertain family and so on. But, since my coworker draws attention to it constantly by pressuring me to eat with her and since it lines up well with the topic of this thread, I couldn't help but mention it.
I'm really tired of science being shushed. I'm just tired of it. I wasn't a 240 lb 12 year old because I was eating a lot more or moving less than my siblings. I just WAS. It was what I was fated to be. I know I can fight it, I've lost 100 lbs before and kept it off for 10 years. But, then I was depressed for a couple months, (Not clinically obviously, but, just depressed about job loss) and gained nearly 100 lbs back in around 3 months. It should have been impossible. I would have had to have eaten over 10,000 calories per day and I absolutely didn't. I just ate single servings of regular meals with my normally sized family. That shouldn't be enough to gain 100 lbs in 3 months. It shouldn't. I knew my weight the day before I got laid off. 3 months later I got on the scale again to a complete nightmare. Meanwhile, in Ethan Sim's Vermont prison study, he had men who couldn't gain on 10,000 calories a day and I could gain 100 lbs in 3 months on what HAD to be less than 3000 calories per day even assuming my mom used whole sticks of butter in her food.
It should be impossible to gain 100 lbs in 3 months. But, it wasn't impossible for me. I've done it. I've spent years since gradually trying to take it back off.
I think that's why watching my coworker really bothers me. I gained 100 lbs in 3 months eating no fast food at all, eating less than I see her eat every single day.1 -
I want to say, I absolutely know there is a genetic component. I suspect there may be epigenetic factors as well. However, I believe a lot of the blame can be places on the insulin spikes caused by the massive amounts of sugar in our diets, hidden in foods that have not business containing sugar in the first place. I know for me, hormonal factors also played a role. Not will power. There was no will power strong enough at my highest weight. I could not stop eating because I had this insatiable hunger I couldn't ignore. Believe me, I tried to ignore it. It got ridiculous & I was desperate & disgusted with it, but I couldn't stop.
Eliminating the sugar (and carbs that act like sugar in the body) that stopped that process has been night & day for me. No more insulin spikes & drops. No more ridiculous hunger that I couldn't win against. Suddenly, I'm perfectly content with one meal a day most days & even did a 48hr fast without it being a struggle.
I didn't miraculously gain more willpower. I'm not a different person. I'm not moving much more than I was. I was severely anemic for 2yrs & am just recovered from that so I'm only slowly upping my activity level. I'm sedentary more days than not & I haven't yet been able to get back into a gym. I'm also middle aged (41) and have hormone issues. Yet I've been able to easily & comfortably lose 5lbs a month on average. (down 36lbs total, long way to go still)
It isn't a will power issue. I always had the will to be thinner. I just finally figured out what was skewing my body's sense of hunger & eliminated that issue.2
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