Leaky gut
Replies
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that's nice, my doctors acknowledge that my muscles tighten into "knots"
whatever you'd like to call it.
Then they should be able to give you that citation if asked, yes?3 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22301554
Or search "Mark Tarnopolsky massage study" if you don't like what I've linked.
Foam rolling is one way a person can massage themselves. Tennis or lacrosse balls are also an option as mentioned.
You are rude and probably need to associate with doctors that are both more well-read and more open-minded.
I'm not seeing anything stating that foam rolling improves running performance or that knots in muscles exist.
Please, the doctors are very well read but wouldn't take the time to argue with somebody who isn't evidence based and just believe, and neither do I.
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danigirl1011 wrote: »How do you know if you even have leaky gut to begin with?
When somebody in the health/fitness field tells you so you buy their services/products.
Fairly common to make up a condition that doesn't exist so they can market sell a product such as a muscle adhesions-foam roller, leaky gut-diet plan, or in the old days snake oil-you name it The only thing that can come positive from it is placebo effect.
dude, foam rollers are awesome. a runner and her foam roller shall not be parted.
Or just run without foam rolling knowing you'll be just fine.
i have
and my recovery time greatly improves when i use a foam roller as opposed to when i don't
What do you actually think it does? Other than a placebo effect?
Must be why physiotherapists recommend them regularly to help with tightened muscles but I guess you know more than someone with expertise in the field.......
Placebo effect. Definitely not!7 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »Seriously though - if you're worried about gut problems,the best person to ask is your doctor.
I've asked my internist, my dermatologist, my oncologist, my surgeon, my gynecologist, my dentist, a functional medicine practioner and my psychiatrist....none of them believe in leaky gut.
Imagine that.3 -
born_of_fire74 wrote: »
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22301554
Or search "Mark Tarnopolsky massage study" if you don't like what I've linked.
Foam rolling is one way a person can massage themselves. Tennis or lacrosse balls are also an option as mentioned.
You are rude and probably need to associate with doctors that are both more well-read and more open-minded.
I'm not seeing anything stating that foam rolling improves running performance or that knots in muscles exist.
Please, the doctors are very well read but wouldn't take the time to argue with somebody who isn't evidence based and just believe, and neither do I.
Syllogism. Let me break it down for you: massage does things as per the study; foam rolling is self massage; foam rolling does things as per the study.
I have a foam roller that I bought something like a decade ago for around $20, maybe $30 IIRC. If this is a money-making racket, my chiropractor, massage therapist and physiotherapist all missed that memo.
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born_of_fire74 wrote: »Oh and “knots” in your muscles are properly called adhesions.
ah thank you. that was the word i was looking for.2 -
debrakgoogins wrote: »I've asked my internist, my dermatologist, my oncologist, my surgeon, my gynecologist, my dentist, a functional medicine practioner and my psychiatrist....none of them believe in leaky gut. Sick of the steroids and other meds. Looking to heal with a (mostly) plant based diet. :-)
I'm sorry but if this many people who have spent 8+ years of their lives each to be trained in the medical field are telling you that you don't have leaky gut, I'm not sure why you would question it.
But my holistic nutritionist who took a comprehensive 3 month on-line course diagnosed it, maybe I need to align my chakras......
7 -
If you actually read my first post(the one you responded to) you would of seen the word much earlier.born_of_fire74 wrote: »Oh and “knots” in your muscles are properly called adhesions.
ah thank you. that was the word i was looking for.When somebody in the health/fitness field tells you so you buy their services/products.
Fairly common to make up a condition that doesn't exist so they can market sell a product such as muscle adhesions-foam roller, leaky gut-diet plan, or in the old days snake oil-you name it The only thing that can come positive from it is a placebo effect. Usually is a nocebo effect though which can be harmful.that's nice, my doctors acknowledge that my muscles tighten into "knots"
whatever you'd like to call it.
Here is where we differ, you both believe these are actual doctors and practice medicine. Any doctor that went to medical school will tell you 99% of these individuals are quacks because they don't base their practice on evidence, nor hold significant weight in science . If you want to believe they are the gods of the medical community great...I'm not trying to change your mind because it is obviously neither of you are open to change. If you can present one citation that muscle adhesions exist or foam rolling improves your performance to running with a high evidence study, I would be open to that thought.born_of_fire74 wrote: »If this is a money-making racket, my chiropractor, massage therapist and physiotherapist all missed that memo.
I quote you Dr. Baraki, MD.This is just one issue we have with "fascia" and "adhesion" gurus who claim they can actually do anything about these issues (...despite the fact that the problems they diagnose haven't even been shown to exist at all, much less correlate with pain).
Adhesions are medically defined as Abdominal Adhesions that result from either post surgery or post trama. The scar tissue involves organs in the abdominal region. They don't just appear in random muscles around the body.
For those interested, here is a link to foam rollers or roller massager used study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637917/Currently, there are no systematic reviews that have specifically appraised the literature and reported the effects of SMR using a foam roll or roller massager on these parameters. This creates a gap in the translation from research to practice for clinicians and fitness professionals who use these tool and recommend these products to their clients.Mauntel et al13 conducted a systematic review assessing the effectiveness of the various myofascial therapies... The authors appraised 10 studies and found that myofascial therapies, as a group, significantly improved ROM but produced no significant changes in muscle function following treatment.13
Everybody have a good day regardless what you believe.
5 -
If you actually read my first post(the one you responded to) you would of seen the word much earlier.born_of_fire74 wrote: »Oh and “knots” in your muscles are properly called adhesions.
ah thank you. that was the word i was looking for.When somebody in the health/fitness field tells you so you buy their services/products.
Fairly common to make up a condition that doesn't exist so they can market sell a product such as muscle adhesions-foam roller, leaky gut-diet plan, or in the old days snake oil-you name it The only thing that can come positive from it is a placebo effect. Usually is a nocebo effect though which can be harmful.that's nice, my doctors acknowledge that my muscles tighten into "knots"
whatever you'd like to call it.
Here is where we differ, you both believe these are actual doctors and practice medicine. Any doctor that went to medical school will tell you 99% of these individuals are quacks because they don't base their practice on evidence, nor hold significant weight in science . If you want to believe they are the gods of the medical community great...I'm not trying to change your mind because it is obviously neither of you are open to change. If you can present one citation that muscle adhesions exist or foam rolling improves your performance to running with a high evidence study, I would be open to that thought.born_of_fire74 wrote: »If this is a money-making racket, my chiropractor, massage therapist and physiotherapist all missed that memo.
I quote you Dr. Baraki, MD.This is just one issue we have with "fascia" and "adhesion" gurus who claim they can actually do anything about these issues (...despite the fact that the problems they diagnose haven't even been shown to exist at all, much less correlate with pain).
Adhesions are medically defined as Abdominal Adhesions that result from either post surgery or post trama. The scar tissue involves organs in the abdominal region. They don't just appear in random muscles around the body.
For those interested, here is a link to foam rollers or roller massager used study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637917/Currently, there are no systematic reviews that have specifically appraised the literature and reported the effects of SMR using a foam roll or roller massager on these parameters. This creates a gap in the translation from research to practice for clinicians and fitness professionals who use these tool and recommend these products to their clients.Mauntel et al13 conducted a systematic review assessing the effectiveness of the various myofascial therapies... The authors appraised 10 studies and found that myofascial therapies, as a group, significantly improved ROM but produced no significant changes in muscle function following treatment.13
Everybody have a good day regardless what you believe.
Please do point out where the poster you are talking down to claimed that foam rolling improved her running performance. You told her it does nothing and she disagreed, specifically stating that her recovery time is better when she rolls.
Please do point out where I claimed that a chiropractor, massage therapist or physiotherapist were doctors or gods of the medical community. My only mention of them was that, if they are selling foam rolling as a racket to make money, they are doing a terrible job of it at max $3/year in my case. The study I linked was authored by Dr. Mark Tarnopolsky. He is not a chiropractor, massage therapist or physiotherapist, he is a medical doctor https://fhs.mcmaster.ca/pediatrics/mark_tarnopolsky.html
Strawmen abound.
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If you actually read my first post(the one you responded to) you would of seen the word much earlier.born_of_fire74 wrote: »Oh and “knots” in your muscles are properly called adhesions.
ah thank you. that was the word i was looking for.When somebody in the health/fitness field tells you so you buy their services/products.
Fairly common to make up a condition that doesn't exist so they can market sell a product such as muscle adhesions-foam roller, leaky gut-diet plan, or in the old days snake oil-you name it The only thing that can come positive from it is a placebo effect. Usually is a nocebo effect though which can be harmful.that's nice, my doctors acknowledge that my muscles tighten into "knots"
whatever you'd like to call it.
Here is where we differ, you both believe these are actual doctors and practice medicine. Any doctor that went to medical school will tell you 99% of these individuals are quacks because they don't base their practice on evidence, nor hold significant weight in science . If you want to believe they are the gods of the medical community great...I'm not trying to change your mind because it is obviously neither of you are open to change. If you can present one citation that muscle adhesions exist or foam rolling improves your performance to running with a high evidence study, I would be open to that thought.born_of_fire74 wrote: »If this is a money-making racket, my chiropractor, massage therapist and physiotherapist all missed that memo.
I quote you Dr. Baraki, MD.This is just one issue we have with "fascia" and "adhesion" gurus who claim they can actually do anything about these issues (...despite the fact that the problems they diagnose haven't even been shown to exist at all, much less correlate with pain).
Adhesions are medically defined as Abdominal Adhesions that result from either post surgery or post trama. The scar tissue involves organs in the abdominal region. They don't just appear in random muscles around the body.
For those interested, here is a link to foam rollers or roller massager used study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637917/Currently, there are no systematic reviews that have specifically appraised the literature and reported the effects of SMR using a foam roll or roller massager on these parameters. This creates a gap in the translation from research to practice for clinicians and fitness professionals who use these tool and recommend these products to their clients.Mauntel et al13 conducted a systematic review assessing the effectiveness of the various myofascial therapies... The authors appraised 10 studies and found that myofascial therapies, as a group, significantly improved ROM but produced no significant changes in muscle function following treatment.13
Everybody have a good day regardless what you believe.
I think there's a disconnect in this conversation if I might intervene here.
I think you are talking about the scammers who try to convince people they can do that stupid fascia foam rolling and break up all sorts of things and get rid of cellulite and change your body shape and all sort of ridiculous claims. I've seen the pictures with the bruising from this stupid form of charlatan-induced foam rolling. I agree with you that it's ridiculous.
Everyone else is talking about easing aches and pains, basically, as someone said earlier, self-massage to ease aching muscles. Not to do anything else. A different sort of roller is used for this and no one gets bruised, either or expects anything but feeling a little better.
15 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »
If you actually read my first post(the one you responded to) you would of seen the word much earlier.born_of_fire74 wrote: »Oh and “knots” in your muscles are properly called adhesions.
ah thank you. that was the word i was looking for.When somebody in the health/fitness field tells you so you buy their services/products.
Fairly common to make up a condition that doesn't exist so they can market sell a product such as muscle adhesions-foam roller, leaky gut-diet plan, or in the old days snake oil-you name it The only thing that can come positive from it is a placebo effect. Usually is a nocebo effect though which can be harmful.that's nice, my doctors acknowledge that my muscles tighten into "knots"
whatever you'd like to call it.
Here is where we differ, you both believe these are actual doctors and practice medicine. Any doctor that went to medical school will tell you 99% of these individuals are quacks because they don't base their practice on evidence, nor hold significant weight in science . If you want to believe they are the gods of the medical community great...I'm not trying to change your mind because it is obviously neither of you are open to change. If you can present one citation that muscle adhesions exist or foam rolling improves your performance to running with a high evidence study, I would be open to that thought.born_of_fire74 wrote: »If this is a money-making racket, my chiropractor, massage therapist and physiotherapist all missed that memo.
I quote you Dr. Baraki, MD.This is just one issue we have with "fascia" and "adhesion" gurus who claim they can actually do anything about these issues (...despite the fact that the problems they diagnose haven't even been shown to exist at all, much less correlate with pain).
Adhesions are medically defined as Abdominal Adhesions that result from either post surgery or post trama. The scar tissue involves organs in the abdominal region. They don't just appear in random muscles around the body.
For those interested, here is a link to foam rollers or roller massager used study.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4637917/Currently, there are no systematic reviews that have specifically appraised the literature and reported the effects of SMR using a foam roll or roller massager on these parameters. This creates a gap in the translation from research to practice for clinicians and fitness professionals who use these tool and recommend these products to their clients.Mauntel et al13 conducted a systematic review assessing the effectiveness of the various myofascial therapies... The authors appraised 10 studies and found that myofascial therapies, as a group, significantly improved ROM but produced no significant changes in muscle function following treatment.13
Everybody have a good day regardless what you believe.
I think there's a disconnect in this conversation if I might intervene here.
I think you are talking about the scammers who try to convince people they can do that stupid fascia foam rolling and break up all sorts of things and get rid of cellulite and change your body shape and all sort of ridiculous claims. I've seen the pictures with the bruising from this stupid form of charlatan-induced foam rolling. I agree with you that it's ridiculous.
Everyone else is talking about easing aches and pains, basically, as someone said earlier, self-massage to ease aching muscles. Not to do anything else. A different sort of roller is used for this and no one gets bruised, either or expects anything but feeling a little better.
I just figured that all the talk was about myofascial trigger points.... or more commonly called muscle "knots".
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3440564/0 -
If you want a extremely good read on a article of "trigger points" and the lack of evidence with plenty of studies and a sorta- meta analysis written by Paul Ingraham.
https://www.painscience.com/articles/trigger-point-doubts.php
He has since changed his view after many years and explains why.
A couple of the humorous exerts...Dr. Patrick Wall, a British neuroscientist and “the world's leading expert on pain,” also saw trouble in trigger point land...
Hopefully we are emerging from an era of fantasy explanations for real phenomena. The authors certainly have to face a community of therapists who are obsessionally committed to explanations for disease and for therapy unsupported by a scrap of evidence except for their claimed therapeutic success.Probably the first reliability study of trigger points was in 1992.12 Dr. Fred Wolfe’s description is more dramatic than an episode of Downton Abbey:
These MFP experts were no ordinary examiners. They were the best. They wrote the book, they did the lectures. But, in the end, they could not find or agree on the trigger points. It was a disaster.
It a must read for anybody dealing with pain.5 -
There's a world of difference between foam rolling quads that are a bit tensed up from a run and what that article is talking about.
That's the disconnect I'm talking about.
I used to foam roll, but found greater relief from dynamic stretching, so I stopped, but I understand why people do it. It's not for the goofy reasons.
7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »There's a world of difference between foam rolling quads that are a bit tensed up from a run and what that article is talking about.
That's the disconnect I'm talking about.
I used to foam roll, but found greater relief from dynamic stretching, so I stopped, but I understand why people do it. It's not for the goofy reasons.
The second claim was
The article show overwelmingly that knots dont exist by lack of evidence.it breaks up my knots, lacrosse balls and tennis balls have been used for years. massage too. same thing
What is disrupting is that supposedly her doctors informed her that "her muscles tighten into knots". If they were actually medical doctors, then this is harmful and against the Hippocratic Oath. I would sincerely hope that this wasn't the case, but more of them saying along of the lines "the tightness sensation".
When certain individuals (massage therapists, chiropractors, social media guros, etc) suggesting that there is something wrong with your body with zero evidence to back it up, they can be doing harm as well because people trust what they are saying is true.
If brand companies and individuals want to sell you a foam roller, just market them accordingly. Such as..."They make you feel good" or "You might get a larger ROM that could last seconds to a couple minutes".
Don't make up something that doesnt exist that it miraculously cures such as knots in muscles to make a buck.
3 -
comptonelizabeth wrote: »Seriously though - if you're worried about gut problems,the best person to ask is your doctor.
I've asked my internist, my dermatologist, my oncologist, my surgeon, my gynecologist, my dentist, a functional medicine practioner and my psychiatrist....none of them believe in leaky gut. Sick of the steroids and other meds. Looking to heal with a (mostly) plant based diet. :-)
It's pretty telling when even your functional med doc is telling you it doesn't exist.
Protip: Unless you have Crohn's or another IBD, you don't have a gut that leaks.6 -
collectingblues wrote: »comptonelizabeth wrote: »Seriously though - if you're worried about gut problems,the best person to ask is your doctor.
I've asked my internist, my dermatologist, my oncologist, my surgeon, my gynecologist, my dentist, a functional medicine practioner and my psychiatrist....none of them believe in leaky gut. Sick of the steroids and other meds. Looking to heal with a (mostly) plant based diet. :-)
It's pretty telling when even your functional med doc is telling you it doesn't exist.
Protip: Unless you have Crohn's or another IBD, you don't have a gut that leaks.
Or a tumor that has broken through
.
2 -
collectingblues wrote: »comptonelizabeth wrote: »Seriously though - if you're worried about gut problems,the best person to ask is your doctor.
I've asked my internist, my dermatologist, my oncologist, my surgeon, my gynecologist, my dentist, a functional medicine practioner and my psychiatrist....none of them believe in leaky gut. Sick of the steroids and other meds. Looking to heal with a (mostly) plant based diet. :-)
It's pretty telling when even your functional med doc is telling you it doesn't exist.
Protip: Unless you have Crohn's or another IBD, you don't have a gut that leaks.
Or a tumor that has broken through.
I like to think that maybe the OP would have known that if she had that, but it's true that I've seen stranger things on the Internet...2 -
collectingblues wrote: »collectingblues wrote: »comptonelizabeth wrote: »Seriously though - if you're worried about gut problems,the best person to ask is your doctor.
I've asked my internist, my dermatologist, my oncologist, my surgeon, my gynecologist, my dentist, a functional medicine practioner and my psychiatrist....none of them believe in leaky gut. Sick of the steroids and other meds. Looking to heal with a (mostly) plant based diet. :-)
It's pretty telling when even your functional med doc is telling you it doesn't exist.
Protip: Unless you have Crohn's or another IBD, you don't have a gut that leaks.
Or a tumor that has broken through.
I like to think that maybe the OP would have known that if she had that, but it's true that I've seen stranger things on the Internet...
Personally, I didnt know or my GP.
Depending on where the tumor is, it can be very silent and late stages.
Especially if one has other major health issues like autoimmune diseases.
Ironically are falsely claimed to be the result of leaky gut syndrome at times by certain guros, it can be masked until it's too late.2
This discussion has been closed.
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