Do i need to drink protein after each work out?
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Out of curiosity, doesn't sex play into it too? And age? And how steep the deficit is (which of course you mention)? I would think an overweight man in his 20s would be quite likely to gain muscle and lose fat, especially with the right diet (i.e., adequate protein) and training plan (progressive). I suspect that a woman, especially one in her 40s or over, would be less likely to, to the point of it being unlikely, and that increasingly so if she's doing a large deficit.
I mention this because -- although I am open to being wrong and respect your opinion a great deal so would tend to trust what you say -- I think even though on MFP most are untrained and overweight, most (like OP) are also women and many (although not OP, I don't think) are also older (30+, often 40s, 50s, 60s). Is it impossible for someone in these categories to gain some muscle when losing? I don't say much is impossible, so no, but is it something she should be expecting or counting on? No, I don't think so -- I think her goal normally should be maintaining muscle. (And I think OP is doing a steep deficit and aiming for 2 lb/week, so that effects this discussion too.)
Mostly the "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" comes up when someone worries about adding in weights because she doesn't want to gain weight (she's dieting!) or because she doesn't lose and someone assures her that she probably added muscle.
Anyway, for OP, I think the advice is the same whether she's trying to gain muscle or preserve it (eat adequate protein, keep up with the strength training, protein shakes don't matter (but are a fine source of protein if you enjoy them), and the "window" is not something to worry about), but I would warn her that she's not going to be doing any significant muscle building under current circumstances and that as she gets closer to goal that muscle building (or maintaining) and losing fast are going to be in conflict.
I'm female, in my 40s, eating at a deficit and pretty sure I'm gaining muscle, not a lot but some. But I'm at a pretty small deficit, I've lost the grand total of 0.4lb over the last 2 weeks, and am weight training (heavy) at least twice a week along with taking HIIT-style classes a couple of times a week. In the same 2 weeks that I've lost less than half a pound I've also lost 2.5cm off my waist and 1cm from my hips and had loads of comments on how much "thinner" I'm looking. So I reckon that I've lost some fat and gained some muscle, but I do admit I do still have a lot of fat to lose. Pretty sure I wouldn't be seeing the same huge changes in my body shape if I hadn't been lifted, spent more time doing cardio and dropped the weight a lot quicker
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lemurcat12 wrote: »
Out of curiosity, doesn't sex play into it too? And age? And how steep the deficit is (which of course you mention)? I would think an overweight man in his 20s would be quite likely to gain muscle and lose fat, especially with the right diet (i.e., adequate protein) and training plan (progressive). I suspect that a woman, especially one in her 40s or over, would be less likely to, to the point of it being unlikely, and that increasingly so if she's doing a large deficit.
I mention this because -- although I am open to being wrong and respect your opinion a great deal so would tend to trust what you say -- I think even though on MFP most are untrained and overweight, most (like OP) are also women and many (although not OP, I don't think) are also older (30+, often 40s, 50s, 60s). Is it impossible for someone in these categories to gain some muscle when losing? I don't say much is impossible, so no, but is it something she should be expecting or counting on? No, I don't think so -- I think her goal normally should be maintaining muscle. (And I think OP is doing a steep deficit and aiming for 2 lb/week, so that effects this discussion too.)
Mostly the "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" comes up when someone worries about adding in weights because she doesn't want to gain weight (she's dieting!) or because she doesn't lose and someone assures her that she probably added muscle.
Anyway, for OP, I think the advice is the same whether she's trying to gain muscle or preserve it (eat adequate protein, keep up with the strength training, protein shakes don't matter (but are a fine source of protein if you enjoy them), and the "window" is not something to worry about), but I would warn her that she's not going to be doing any significant muscle building under current circumstances and that as she gets closer to goal that muscle building (or maintaining) and losing fast are going to be in conflict.
I'm female, in my 40s, eating at a deficit and pretty sure I'm gaining muscle, not a lot but some. But I'm at a pretty small deficit, I've lost the grand total of 0.4lb over the last 2 weeks, and am weight training (heavy) at least twice a week along with taking HIIT-style classes a couple of times a week. In the same 2 weeks that I've lost less than half a pound I've also lost 2.5cm off my waist and 1cm from my hips and had loads of comments on how much "thinner" I'm looking. So I reckon that I've lost some fat and gained some muscle, but I do admit I do still have a lot of fat to lose. Pretty sure I wouldn't be seeing the same huge changes in my body shape if I hadn't been lifted, spent more time doing cardio and dropped the weight a lot quicker
In two weeks, you wouldnt be able to gain much if any muscle as all. 2 days of weight training is also not ideal since MPS occurs over 36 to 48 hr window. And measuring in cm's definitely allows for some mismeasurement. Its not suggesting that you wont see improvements or doing things wrong but rather suggest that muscle growth takes time.
If you are continuously seeing improvement than keep doing what you are doing. If possible i would do 3 days of weight training to improve the ability or chances to gain muscle.2 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »
Out of curiosity, doesn't sex play into it too? And age? And how steep the deficit is (which of course you mention)? I would think an overweight man in his 20s would be quite likely to gain muscle and lose fat, especially with the right diet (i.e., adequate protein) and training plan (progressive). I suspect that a woman, especially one in her 40s or over, would be less likely to, to the point of it being unlikely, and that increasingly so if she's doing a large deficit.
I mention this because -- although I am open to being wrong and respect your opinion a great deal so would tend to trust what you say -- I think even though on MFP most are untrained and overweight, most (like OP) are also women and many (although not OP, I don't think) are also older (30+, often 40s, 50s, 60s). Is it impossible for someone in these categories to gain some muscle when losing? I don't say much is impossible, so no, but is it something she should be expecting or counting on? No, I don't think so -- I think her goal normally should be maintaining muscle. (And I think OP is doing a steep deficit and aiming for 2 lb/week, so that effects this discussion too.)
Mostly the "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" comes up when someone worries about adding in weights because she doesn't want to gain weight (she's dieting!) or because she doesn't lose and someone assures her that she probably added muscle.
Anyway, for OP, I think the advice is the same whether she's trying to gain muscle or preserve it (eat adequate protein, keep up with the strength training, protein shakes don't matter (but are a fine source of protein if you enjoy them), and the "window" is not something to worry about), but I would warn her that she's not going to be doing any significant muscle building under current circumstances and that as she gets closer to goal that muscle building (or maintaining) and losing fast are going to be in conflict.
I'm female, in my 40s, eating at a deficit and pretty sure I'm gaining muscle, not a lot but some. But I'm at a pretty small deficit, I've lost the grand total of 0.4lb over the last 2 weeks, and am weight training (heavy) at least twice a week along with taking HIIT-style classes a couple of times a week. In the same 2 weeks that I've lost less than half a pound I've also lost 2.5cm off my waist and 1cm from my hips and had loads of comments on how much "thinner" I'm looking. So I reckon that I've lost some fat and gained some muscle, but I do admit I do still have a lot of fat to lose. Pretty sure I wouldn't be seeing the same huge changes in my body shape if I hadn't been lifted, spent more time doing cardio and dropped the weight a lot quicker
I'm always skeptical of how people can know that they are gaining muscle, though. I probably would have said I'd gained muscle between 155 and 125, since I was doing the training, gaining strength, and fit back into my old size 4s at a higher weight than I'd been when I bought them.
In 2 weeks you simply can't gain appreciable muscle, so that even shows how waist measurements (which I'd normally consider a good way to tell if you are recomping) can be misleading -- likely about losing some water from the area or shape catching up to past losses or it being hard to reproduce measurements exactly or who knows.
If you are going at this slowly it does make recomp and not losing muscle more likely that what I did, though, although I'm not actually unhappy with my results.1 -
I've not just been lifting for 2 weeks, I was just saying that time scale to show how low my deficit is. Obviously I've not gained any real muscle in 2 weeks either, but I reckon I have in the 4+ months I've been lifting heavier. My body shape has changed far more in those 4 months where I've lost around 15lb than it did in the previous 9 where I lost around 90lb.
As for water weight, I don't know, I generally measure every couple of weeks and find I get a woosh of losing a few centimetres around once a month or so.0 -
You researched it, or someone posted it to your Instagram page?
The advice you keep getting on yourninstragram page is nonsense.5 -
But I thought you were saying you'd lost 2 c around the waist in 2 weeks despite only losing .4 lb as evidence of muscle gain in that time. That's what psulemon and I were responding to, not an assumption that you'd been lifting any particular time.
I'm not saying you did or did not gain muscle, all I'm saying is that I don't think you could possible know. Obviously I also lost lots of inches (and sizes) when going from 155 to 125. (Body shape changes often are far more dramatic when you have less to lose, too, even when it's because of fat loss, and I would certainly expect a change to be visible with nearly a lb/week over 4 months.) Anyway, my point is that most people just don't know (I have no clue what happened when I was going down to 155 either), which is one reason this discussion seems sort of pointless to me -- the advice is the same whether one is trying to gain muscle or maintain it.
When someone is largely maintaining or already lean it's much easier to see a recomp or muscle gain.0 -
janejellyroll wrote: »rikkejanell2014 wrote: »Maybe top bodybuilders that is the case but you are doing weightloss as I understand. While losing weight you will not build muscle but protein and strength traisth
How do yoy figure i wont gain muscle?
Because you're losing weight -- you can't gain weight (which is what happens when you are building muscle) and lose it at the same time. To build muscle, you need a surplus of calories. To lose weight, you need to be in a deficit. You can only do one at a time.
@janejellyroll
No you don't need a surplus of calories or to be gaining weight to add gain muscle. It's important when fighting myths not to add more myths into the debate!
This would be worth you reading.
http://muscleandstrengthpyramids.com/calorie-deficit-gain-weight/
Very very weak. It just picks out various studies and says some people managed to add muscle while in defecit and vice versa. This is not groundbreaking. Im sure it has happened but the vast majority of the time you cant gain in a defecit. If you took an anorexic to the gym will they build muscle? Crude example but it the point
I think there's some context missing from this discussion as evidenced by your example.
Whether or not actual muscle gains will occur in a deficit depends a great deal on the training age of the individual and their level of body fat.
I would tend to think of this on a sliding scale of sorts
<overweight beginner - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -lean experienced athlete>
On the left, you're in an ideal position to gain muscle in a deficit. On the right, very unlikely.
And of course I'm drastically oversimplifying as there are other relevant pieces like program design, nutrient intake (deficit size for example), how well the individual responds to exercise, how well they partition nutrients, etc.
The irony in MFP is that most people say "you can't gain muscle in a deficit" and yet the audience that typically receives this advice are overweight beginners, and I don't say that with any judgement attached to it.
Finally, I'm not sure how much you know about the authors of that post you're claiming as weak, but they're some of the best in the industry quite literally.
Well you know I'm not gonna argue with you sir - got too much respect for ya mate. I was more playing devils advocate to be honest as I was getting narked by other comments. It felt like an article that has set out to find something remote. I.e. If I was to write an article saying it rains in the desert I could find some evidence I'm sure that it does - but 90% of the time it doesn't. (no one challenge that, its an example).
For me I have lost weight and not gained much muscle at all. I have strengthened muscles that were already there. Now I am trying to add cals to gain muscle...but apparently I shouldn't? The author is a bodybuilder and he did appear a bit weak as his wording were all 'some', 'a few' and 'maybe' - nothing wrong with his sources for the article
Just for the record, you are more than welcome to disagree/debate, I welcome it and I'm wrong a lot too just like anyone else. No harm there.
On this particular issue though I think the "you can't build muscle in a deficit" gets thrown around in many cases where it is likely incorrect.
I believed it because it's mentioned by the regulars *here just about every day. I shouldn't take everything i read on mfp as gospel. Too much advice is echoed over and over until it's drummed into you and you end up believing it lol
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Lunch within an hour or sorikkejanell2014 wrote: »
You probably don't need much of anything after that. When is your next meal after you work out?
For example, I usually have a snack after work, then do whatever workout I'm going to do, and then eat dinner. I don't need to consume anything else.0 -
rikkejanell2014 wrote: »
Lunch within an hour or sorikkejanell2014 wrote: »
You probably don't need much of anything after that. When is your next meal after you work out?
For example, I usually have a snack after work, then do whatever workout I'm going to do, and then eat dinner. I don't need to consume anything else.
Then don't worry about it at all0 -
Hehe.
58 participants enrolled. Told to eat and self report a 500 calories surplus.
21 actually completed. All in a deficit.
Next round of funding, denied.2
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