Tired of some folks

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  • Chef_Barbell
    Chef_Barbell Posts: 6,644 Member
    edited January 2017
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    annmareeofoz wrote: »
    wizzybeth wrote: »
    annmareeofoz wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    annmareeofoz wrote: »
    Oh I also meant to say, that my nutrition coach at the gym even said to me, that it's not just a cheat day and then it's over and that's it... It continues beyond that... (I'm paraphrasing what I remember she said) because your gut has a balance of enzymes and bacteria etc and even your overall body levels can be affected - so even a cheat meal can upset that balance, and kill off your good bacteria meaning your body has to work hard to get over that sudden influx or sugar, or sodium or carbs or whatever was in that cheat meal, or cheat day.

    It definitely gave me something to think about, and gave me, personally, all the more reason to not allow huge indulgences.

    Ask your nutrition coach for some peer reviewed scientific references that support that logic...

    I don't believe in cheat meals from a psychological standpoint, as I believe that perpetuates the whole "good food/bad food" dichotomy that is so mentally unhealthy for so many people. I believe in working in the foods I want every day, but that doesn't mean I don't often bank calories for a more indulgent weekend meal or a couple of days on vacation. As long as the indulgence doesn't wipe out your weekly deficit, then it doesn't have lasting negative impact for weight loss, aside from usually a temporary spike in water weight.

    Gut bacteria seems to be one of the trendy topics of the moment when it comes to weight loss and overall health. If eating donuts or pizza, or other typical "cheat" meals caused your body to stop functioning optimally and derailed progress- there wouldn't be so many successful people on this site who lost weight while indulging, at whatever frequency they feel comfortable with.

    And where's your peer reviewed scientific references in denial of it? Works both ways...

    Besides - I'm talking about OVER-indulgence, and drastic changes from the norm, not just a treat here and there that is incorporated into your meal plans. I'm talking about a binge or large 'cheat' that drastically differs from your regular plan. I personally know that on a day where I've stumbled and gobbled up a large pack of Doritos, I can definitely feel it the next few days, especially in my stomach and colon (bowel movements) and it definitely affects my blood pressure readings, and it takes a while for everything to return back to normal again afterward.

    It's a reasonable expectation and bit of advice - by all means everyone's entitled to believe what ever they want. I didn't come to debate or argue, only to advise and assist, but hey I forgot forums like this just love to pick apart others and argue to make themselves feel better. So continue your Carry-On if it makes you feel more superior and better about yourself!


    The burden of proof is with you - you made the claim

    LOGICAL FALLACY:

    You said that the burden of proof lies not with the person making the claim, but with someone else to disprove.

    The burden of proof lies with someone who is making a claim, and is not upon anyone else to disprove. The inability, or disinclination, to disprove a claim does not render that claim valid, nor give it any credence whatsoever. However it is important to note that we can never be certain of anything, and so we must assign value to any claim based on the available evidence, and to dismiss something on the basis that it hasn't been proven beyond all doubt is also fallacious reasoning.

    Example: Bertrand declares that a teapot is, at this very moment, in orbit around the Sun between the Earth and Mars, and that because no one can prove him wrong, his claim is therefore a valid one.

    https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/burden-of-proof

    lol nope, I just paraphrased advice someone else had given to me at one point... I even used the term paraphrasing. I never once CLAIMED it was 100% true, or studied, did I????

    I just said it gave me MYSELF in my opinion, a pause for thought on what /I/ do, and how I think about food and cheats/treats etc.

    So, again, tell me how you're not just trying to argue for the sake of argument, to make yourself feel better in life?

    Do you really think a health/fitness weight loss forum on the internet has to full of completely peer reviewed studies on every single bit of opinion or advice?

    I'm sure if we looked back at your posts we'd see some erroneous replies.

    Anywho, as I said have fun with your carry-on - you'll have to do it without me. Thanks for showing me why I don't bother to participate in these forums, people always ruin everything. :(

    It's not that serious. Have a Snickers.
  • kgeyser
    kgeyser Posts: 22,505 Member
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    annmareeofoz wrote: »
    Oh I also meant to say, that my nutrition coach at the gym even said to me, that it's not just a cheat day and then it's over and that's it... It continues beyond that... (I'm paraphrasing what I remember she said) because your gut has a balance of enzymes and bacteria etc and even your overall body levels can be affected - so even a cheat meal can upset that balance, and kill off your good bacteria meaning your body has to work hard to get over that sudden influx or sugar, or sodium or carbs or whatever was in that cheat meal, or cheat day.

    It definitely gave me something to think about, and gave me, personally, all the more reason to not allow huge indulgences.

    At first I thought you may have been referring to the yo-yo dieting and gut bacteria study that was in the news not long ago, so I took 2 minutes and did a search - could they be thinking about this study? Not sure how long ago you and your nutrition coach spoke, as this is relatively recent:

    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/mnfr.201500815/abstract

    And here is one of the authors talking about the study: https://theconversation.com/eating-healthily-during-the-week-but-bingeing-on-weekends-is-not-ok-for-your-gut-53374
  • Monchichi3
    Monchichi3 Posts: 6 Member
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    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Monchichi3 wrote: »
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    What I would like to say to those people is stop restricting so much that you feel you need a cheat day. Drop that kind of mindset and you will probably have more sustainable weight loss. Just eat the food you like every day in smaller portions. Learn to moderate.[/quote]

    This mindset is what also gets some into trouble. Not all manufactured foods were designed to be eaten in moderation. How does one moderate certain foods purposely designed to eat more?

    Many regain weight by slowly eating more and more "foods they like" (foods manufactured for the purpose of eating more) and then they are back at square one. Then they become people referenced in the op. For those that have the type of discipline to sustain eating everything in moderation, kudos.

    When you cook for your friends, family, coworkers or even yourself, you don't try to make the food as delicious as possible, and feel a sense of pride when someone asks for seconds?

    That depends. Realizing that what anyone finds delicious is going to be based on individual preference, I do the best I can. People like it or they don't. Personally everything I prepare doesn't have to be "delicious as possible" given time constraints or even motivation to make it so.

    I read some of the other replies to my posts. Why so snarky and defensive when someone suggests that if a food is too difficult to limit, don't eat it or include it in a WOE? Again, kudos to those that can do it. To those who responded thoughtfully and without making assumptions, I appreciate it.
  • WinoGelato
    WinoGelato Posts: 13,454 Member
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    Monchichi3 wrote: »
    WinoGelato wrote: »
    Monchichi3 wrote: »
    Lounmoun wrote: »
    What I would like to say to those people is stop restricting so much that you feel you need a cheat day. Drop that kind of mindset and you will probably have more sustainable weight loss. Just eat the food you like every day in smaller portions. Learn to moderate.[/quote]

    This mindset is what also gets some into trouble. Not all manufactured foods were designed to be eaten in moderation. How does one moderate certain foods purposely designed to eat more?

    Many regain weight by slowly eating more and more "foods they like" (foods manufactured for the purpose of eating more) and then they are back at square one. Then they become people referenced in the op. For those that have the type of discipline to sustain eating everything in moderation, kudos.

    When you cook for your friends, family, coworkers or even yourself, you don't try to make the food as delicious as possible, and feel a sense of pride when someone asks for seconds?

    That depends. Realizing that what anyone finds delicious is going to be based on individual preference, I do the best I can. People like it or they don't. Personally everything I prepare doesn't have to be "delicious as possible" given time constraints or even motivation to make it so.

    I read some of the other replies to my posts. Why so snarky and defensive when someone suggests that if a food is too difficult to limit, don't eat it or include it in a WOE? Again, kudos to those that can do it. To those who responded thoughtfully and without making assumptions, I appreciate it.

    If you took my comments as snarky or defensive, that wasn't my intent. I was attempting to address my interpretations of your comments early on in the thread that food manufacturers who work to make their foods taste good are somehow nefarious and to be blamed for some people's difficulty in moderating those foods.

    While I understand that people may have certain trigger foods that they have difficulty moderating, I believe this is largely a behavioral characteristic rather than a sinister plot by Big Food. Of course food manufacturers want the foods they produce to be tasty so that people by more of them. That's how business works. It's also how my own kitchen operates - I want my food to taste good so that people enjoy eating it.

    I think personal accountability and an understanding that moderation is a learned, practiced behavior is important. That's not to say that for some folks, abstaining isn't also a good strategy. There are countless people on this site who find success through abstaining from foods they have difficulty moderating. That's still a choice though, and a nod to personal accountability, rather than "I have to cut this food out because someone designed it to be too tempting and I won't be able to ever say no".

    I still would be interested in understanding your original claim that "not all manufactured foods were designed to be eaten in moderation. How does one moderate certain foods purposely designed to eat more?". Do you have examples of what these foods are? And are you saying that you don't believe anyone can moderate these foods?
  • Tacklewasher
    Tacklewasher Posts: 7,122 Member
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    annmareeofoz wrote: »

    lol nope, I just paraphrased advice someone else had given to me at one point... I even used the term paraphrasing. I never once CLAIMED it was 100% true, or studied, did I????

    I just said it gave me MYSELF in my opinion, a pause for thought on what /I/ do, and how I think about food and cheats/treats etc.

    So, again, tell me how you're not just trying to argue for the sake of argument, to make yourself feel better in life?

    Do you really think a health/fitness weight loss forum on the internet has to full of completely peer reviewed studies on every single bit of opinion or advice?

    I'm sure if we looked back at your posts we'd see some erroneous replies.

    Anywho, as I said have fun with your carry-on - you'll have to do it without me. Thanks for showing me why I don't bother to participate in these forums, people always ruin everything. :(

    Is it wrong to say I'm tired of over-reactions to questioning someone's opinion?

  • Monchichi3
    Monchichi3 Posts: 6 Member
    edited January 2017
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    I didn't think you were being snarky in your original post. However, you and others are making assumptions and reading things I didn't write nor intend. Did I say food manufacturers were nefarious....that their was a sinister plot? It appears people want me to be saying something different than what was posted. In order to make more money they design goods to create demand. That isn't a novel concept. I used an example. Another example - If raw cashews trigger one too eat more than budgeted and to want more later but you want to have nuts in your food plan, try walnuts.

    Disclaimer: I don't believe cashews are out to get me.

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