Slow Down, or Suck it Up?

swagoner94

When I first got my gym membership, I went 3-4 times a week to the gym. I dedicated some days to toning my arms, another to legs, and another to cardio. Sometimes I would break up the muscle groups even more, but even on days I wasn't focused on cardio, I would do some form of it. Originally, I avoided running and stuck to the stairmaster. When I wasn't seeing the results I wanted, I changed my workouts.

I began going 5-6 times a week. I added some classes offered by the gym as well (GRIT Strength on Wednesdays, Cycle classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays). When I still wasn't seeing the results I wanted, I added running to this mix (and started focusing on my nutrition more). When I still wasn't seeing the results I wanted - and this is where I'm at now - I began to run even more and have even doubled up at the gym some days. Yesterday, for example, I went at lunch time and did some running and the stairmaster. I then went after work and did my GRIT class. Today, I'm tired.

I didn't even bring my gym bag to work because I just straight up don't want to workout today. I'm exhausted, my muscles are tired (which is normally a feeling I chase), and despite having had 8 hours of sleep, I feel a bit like a zombie today. I know some schools of thought are that we ought to slow down and take rest days. But I know others are more hardcore and would say, suck it up! You want results!? Do work!

Basically... should I go home at get my gym bag?
What else can I do to achieve the results I want - other than just being patient haha.
It's not my nutrition. I watch that closely now. I'm below my calories and I'm getting them from healthy sources (85% of the time).

Ninkyou

You're going to the gym 5-6 days a week, 2x a day. That's WAY overkill. Your body is basically rebelling and telling you to stop doing so much.

Also, I have to question your "not seeing the results I wanted" mentality. What exactly are you expecting? How long did you do each program before increasing/changing?


At any rate, you're doing too much, for sure. Rest days are essential for recovery.

mrramsey1969

I say slow down! We have become such an on demand society. Sure you can say suck it up and do it but like most you'll probably end up getting burned out and stop all together.

Slow and steady wins the race. Minor course corrections along the way, your body adapts slower that we all would like them to.

Chieflrg

swagoner94 wrote: »

When I first got my gym membership, I went 3-4 times a week to the gym. I dedicated some days to toning my arms, another to legs, and another to cardio. Sometimes I would break up the muscle groups even more, but even on days I wasn't focused on cardio, I would do some form of it. Originally, I avoided running and stuck to the stairmaster. When I wasn't seeing the results I wanted, I changed my workouts.

I began going 5-6 times a week. I added some classes offered by the gym as well (GRIT Strength on Wednesdays, Cycle classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays). When I still wasn't seeing the results I wanted, I added running to this mix (and started focusing on my nutrition more). When I still wasn't seeing the results I wanted - and this is where I'm at now - I began to run even more and have even doubled up at the gym some days. Yesterday, for example, I went at lunch time and did some running and the stairmaster. I then went after work and did my GRIT class. Today, I'm tired.

I didn't even bring my gym bag to work because I just straight up don't want to workout today. I'm exhausted, my muscles are tired (which is normally a feeling I chase), and despite having had 8 hours of sleep, I feel a bit like a zombie today. I know some schools of thought are that we ought to slow down and take rest days. But I know others are more hardcore and would say, suck it up! You want results!? Do work!

Basically... should I go home at get my gym bag?
What else can I do to achieve the results I want - other than just being patient haha.
It's not my nutrition. I watch that closely now. I'm below my calories and I'm getting them from healthy sources (85% of the time).

Perhaps you should tell us what results you want...

Spliner1969

swagoner94 wrote: »

When I first got my gym membership, I went 3-4 times a week to the gym. I dedicated some days to toning my arms, another to legs, and another to cardio. Sometimes I would break up the muscle groups even more, but even on days I wasn't focused on cardio, I would do some form of it. Originally, I avoided running and stuck to the stairmaster. When I wasn't seeing the results I wanted, I changed my workouts.

I began going 5-6 times a week. I added some classes offered by the gym as well (GRIT Strength on Wednesdays, Cycle classes on Tuesdays and Thursdays). When I still wasn't seeing the results I wanted, I added running to this mix (and started focusing on my nutrition more). When I still wasn't seeing the results I wanted - and this is where I'm at now - I began to run even more and have even doubled up at the gym some days. Yesterday, for example, I went at lunch time and did some running and the stairmaster. I then went after work and did my GRIT class. Today, I'm tired.

I didn't even bring my gym bag to work because I just straight up don't want to workout today. I'm exhausted, my muscles are tired (which is normally a feeling I chase), and despite having had 8 hours of sleep, I feel a bit like a zombie today. I know some schools of thought are that we ought to slow down and take rest days. But I know others are more hardcore and would say, suck it up! You want results!? Do work!

Basically... should I go home at get my gym bag?
What else can I do to achieve the results I want - other than just being patient haha.
It's not my nutrition. I watch that closely now. I'm below my calories and I'm getting them from healthy sources (85% of the time).

Sounds to me like you're heading for injury. You have to listen to your body, give it a day (or a few) of rest. Simply stay in your calorie goals and it won't hurt a bit as far as weight loss/maintenance is concerned.

What results are you looking for? Your profile shows you are wanting to lose weight, so I assume you're in a deficit? Killing yourself at the gym isn't likely helping all that much unless it's simply cardio. For me, cardio helps with weight loss in a deficit, and in maintenance or surplus of calories, weight training helps with muscle (and weight) gain. It's completely fine to do weight training while losing weight (and you probably should to an extent) but remember, you're not going to gain a ton of strength or muscle in a deficit. You'll gain some, but not a lot. So working harder at weight training may not be helping you in the long run.

Also, if you're going 2x a day 5 days a week, I'm assuming you're doing that to earn more calories for your intake? It's too much. At the most I did 90 minutes a day 6 days a week 1x a day, and I did it solely to improve performance and increase my calorie deficit all while earning more calories to eat (I'm a tall/big guy). I've since dropped it to 4-5x a week for 60-90 minutes and guess what.. no real change in loss/gain with one exception, I've gained more muscle in the last several months of less days a week than I did when I was exercising 6 days a week. That's because I wasn't giving my body time to recover and rebuild. My muscles were staying in a worn out state and it was counter productive. Adjust your calories if necessary, but I'd suggest dropping to no more than 5 days a week 1x a day for the gym. Try to spend no more than an hour there. Just my opinion. It sounds like you need rest plain and simple.

swagoner94

I don't eat my calories all back. Sometimes none at all.

Also, I should have clarified, I don't double up on my workouts every day. I do this maybe 1-3 times a week.

Results: I'm trying to get back to the body I had 3 years ago. I don't primarily care about weight, but I was about 30lbs lighter.

Spliner1969

swagoner94 wrote: »

I don't eat my calories all back. Sometimes none at all.

Are you confident you know your TDEE (including exercise)? How much of a deficit are you in each week? It's possible, that by not eating back your exercise calories or a portion of them, that you're in too high of a deficit. Regardless it comes down to this, listen to your body and rest for one, two, even three days or more if needed. If you watch your caloric intake during those rest days you won't gain weight from it, and even if you did a few days isn't going to do any lasting damage. Sometimes your body even needs the extra calories to repair itself. After you rest, go back to doing what you felt was working.

rybo

Doing more of what already isn't working, doesn't work. As you are seeing. I'm also guessing you haven't given any of this process that much time to see the obscure results you want either. Be patient.
Follow a real lifting program (Strong curves is suggested repeatedly around here), do a moderate amount of cardio (don't bury yourself with it), eat half your calories back, and hold no more than a pound/week deficit. And be patient. Give it time, 4 weeks minimum, preferably 6 or 8.

cwolfman13

rybo wrote: »

Doing more of what already isn't working, doesn't work. As you are seeing. I'm also guessing you haven't given any of this process that much time to see the obscure results you want either. Be patient.
Follow a real lifting program (Strong curves is suggested repeatedly around here), do a moderate amount of cardio (don't bury yourself with it), eat half your calories back, and hold no more than a pound/week deficit. And be patient. Give it time, 4 weeks minimum, preferably 6 or 8.

Pretty much what I was going to say so I'll just belabor the point...

AshleyMFitness16

You know your body better than anyone else, if you're feeling that tired, give it a rest! Rest days don't have to be sitting on the couch all day, go for a walk, do something involving light activity.
Also, if you're not getting the results you want, it is probably your diet. Getting fit isn't just working out.

swagoner94

Thank you all for your feedback! I really value it!

I may not have given any of my programs enough time to take a real effect. When I went 3-4 times a week, I was doing that for maybe 3 months. I gave the 5-6 times a week of mostly strength training and light cardio maybe one month, and have been doing what I'm doing now (with the classes and added cardio - I still do strength training at least two times a week) for just under a month. I have lost 6 pounds in January, so I am seeing some progress. But when I think in light of the total of 5-6 months of actively trying to lose weight and tone up, I just thought I'd see much more. I didn't weigh myself until the end of December, so I don't know how much weight loss has really happened in the first few months. Based on my crappy scale at home, I've lost 15lbs, but I don't really trust that scale! I'm going off one that we have at work (we're doing a weight loss competition - this isn't my motivation at all; I'm the host of the challenge so I'm mostly just organizing it for my coworkers).

As for nutrition, I recently started unintentionally doing raw till 4... I wasn't planning to, but I kept seeing these delicious looking smoothies and smoothie bowls on these vegan chick's Instagram feeds, so I started drinking nutrient packed, homemade, plant-based smoothies for breakfast and lunch and then eating a small, early hot dinner after work. I'm not vegan so I do get sufficient protein from eggs, dairy, and some meat.

Spliner1969

So the big question.. are you logging your food and setting calorie goals? You never really said. Eating 'right', 'raw', 'high in nutrient' foods really doesn't mean anything other than 'healthy' if it's causing you not to lose weight.

Smoothies were the biggest mistake I made when starting out. They tasted great, and it was one of the only ways I could stand to eat kale at all, but the fruit and ingredients needed to make them taste good were hugely increasing the calories. I think I used my Nutri-Bullet for about two months before realizing I was sabotaging myself by using it. The only way I figured that out was joining MFP and logging my food, entering recipes for the shakes I was making. I'd drink a shake, feel half bloated from it (thinking it would keep me from being hungry later) then end up hungry an hour later after consuming a huge shake that was 800+ calories. I tried for a while to modify the shakes using mostly water instead of milk, or unsweetened almond milk instead of regular milk, less fruit, but the taste changed to something I wasn't fond of most of the time. The calories wouldn't go down all that much because I loved using fruit which was high in sugar. I gave up on it and went with solid foods which seem to take longer to digest and keep me satiated.

VeroniqueBoilard

If you have less then 20 pounds to lose, probably not the right advice but if you have more then that maybe your in the same boat then me:

When I work out (intenst strenght training + cardio program), even in a deficit, I barely see the weight go down.

My fastest lost was when I counted calories and walked 40 minutes minimum a day. I was literally melting.

I have no idea why, but sometime I think the intense work out was stressing my body? No idea.

I'd reduce the gym and focus on calories.

swagoner94

Thanks friends! I do log my calories and generally, my smoothies come out to be just about the same amount of calories as a solid-food meal. I typically use Rice Milk for my smoothies and lots of kale. I find that the fruit does not have that many calories, sans mangoes and sometimes I use too much of it. Lots of sugar, yes. So far, they've sustained me through to my next meal. I haven't felt the need to snack in between. I try to stay below 1,200. If I workout, I allow myself to go just a bit beyond that.

I find it interesting that you, Veronique, lost more weight by walking and counting calories. I would think counting calories and higher intensity workouts would work best.

I definitely count my calories and I'm very aware of what I'm consuming. I'm really not too worried about that part (hence, posting in the exercise forum rather than the nutrition forum). Not saying it couldn't have something to do with it. But different things work for different people as far as nutrition goes, and so far, I really like the smoothie thing I've got going on!

cwolfman13

You've lost 6 Lbs in under a month...if you feel as though you're not getting results I would suggest that your expectations are a little out of whack. That's very solid progress on the weight loss front...I think you need to have more realistic expectations, particularly with only 30 Lbs to lose.

swagoner94

cwolfman13 wrote: »

You've lost 6 Lbs in under a month...if you feel as though you're not getting results I would suggest that your expectations are a little out of whack. That's very solid progress on the weight loss front...I think you need to have more realistic expectations, particularly with only 30 Lbs to lose.

I'd say that in late December I weighed 169. I got down to 165 in a week and a half, and then then first week of January I was up to 166. For two weeks after (I weigh-in once a week) I was 166, and 166.4. It wasn't until this week that it went down to 163.2. I think I was thrown off and frustrated by plateauing at 166 for three weeks. I'm worried that I'll just be stuck at 163.2 for the next few weeks as well.

Aed0416

You are working out to the point where you are feeling poorly and not making any progress. It's time to dial it back since you are not benefit from the strategy you are currently trying. Rest more and make sure you are properly fueled.

Spliner1969

VeroniqueBoilard wrote: »

If you have less then 20 pounds to lose, probably not the right advice but if you have more then that maybe your in the same boat then me:

When I work out (intenst strenght training + cardio program), even in a deficit, I barely see the weight go down.

My fastest lost was when I counted calories and walked 40 minutes minimum a day. I was literally melting.

I have no idea why, but sometime I think the intense work out was stressing my body? No idea.

I'd reduce the gym and focus on calories.

I lost most of my weight walking. Probably 80-85% of it. Maybe 15% was cardio done on a machine at high intensities. Maybe it's the sustained burns that seem to work better for some people? By walking I mean around 4mph so it was close to a slow jog, I think it's called Power or Fitness walking. I usually did it for an hour a day, and would pick the most hills I could find to walk up. My park has really nice path that is constant hills so it's difficulty I'd say is pretty high. I've since learned to jog part of it (I have back injuries and knee issues and thought I'd never run again) and do well but it's a tough path. Anyway, it's worth a try.

cwolfman13

swagoner94 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

You've lost 6 Lbs in under a month...if you feel as though you're not getting results I would suggest that your expectations are a little out of whack. That's very solid progress on the weight loss front...I think you need to have more realistic expectations, particularly with only 30 Lbs to lose.

I'd say that in late December I weighed 169. I got down to 165 in a week and a half, and then then first week of January I was up to 166. For two weeks after (I weigh-in once a week) I was 166, and 166.4. It wasn't until this week that it went down to 163.2. I think I was thrown off and frustrated by plateauing at 166 for three weeks. I'm worried that I'll just be stuck at 163.2 for the next few weeks as well.

That's kind of how it works...weight loss isn't a linear function as much as we'd all like it to be...weight loss, and weight management in general is about watching trends over time which is why I use a separate app that provides me with a really nice graph with trend lines.

It's very normal to dump a good chunk of weight early on as you are consuming less calories, you start dumping glycogen and water...you also have less inherent waste in your system. It's very normal to just level off and from that point, given natural body weight fluctuations, you will find that some weeks you won't lose, some weeks will be smaller losses...some weeks will be bigger losses and some weeks will show a gain...but like I said, it's really about the overall trend over time, not the actual numbers.

AnvilHead

swagoner94 wrote: »

Thanks friends! I do log my calories and generally, my smoothies come out to be just about the same amount of calories as a solid-food meal. I typically use Rice Milk for my smoothies and lots of kale. I find that the fruit does not have that many calories, sans mangoes and sometimes I use too much of it. Lots of sugar, yes. So far, they've sustained me through to my next meal. I haven't felt the need to snack in between. I try to stay below 1,200. If I workout, I allow myself to go just a bit beyond that.

I find it interesting that you, Veronique, lost more weight by walking and counting calories. I would think counting calories and higher intensity workouts would work best.

I definitely count my calories and I'm very aware of what I'm consuming. I'm really not too worried about that part (hence, posting in the exercise forum rather than the nutrition forum). Not saying it couldn't have something to do with it. But different things work for different people as far as nutrition goes, and so far, I really like the smoothie thing I've got going on!

Eating under 1200 calories a day and working out that hard? It's no wonder you feel terrible. It's like trying to run your car 100 miles per hour with no gas in the tank, no oil in the engine and no water in the radiator.

What you're feeling right now is the discovery that you can't starve yourself and simultaneously grind yourself into dust with workouts. The body needs fuel to run and you're not providing it. If you keep doing what you're doing, what you can look forward to is the fatigue and soreness getting progressively worse, along with the possibility of overuse/overtraining injuries to top it off.

swagoner94

If I don't workout I'm strict to the 1,200. If I workout, I do go over. Not usually by too much though, meaning, I won't typically eat back every calorie I 'earned.'

cwolfman, I found your comment helpful. I will try to be mindful of my expectations.

To the others that talked about walking, maybe I will give this a try as well and at least experiment with this. It'd be difficult for me because I can't disassociate higher intensity with progress, but I'll try!

legsnbacon

swagoner94 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

You've lost 6 Lbs in under a month...if you feel as though you're not getting results I would suggest that your expectations are a little out of whack. That's very solid progress on the weight loss front...I think you need to have more realistic expectations, particularly with only 30 Lbs to lose.

I'd say that in late December I weighed 169. I got down to 165 in a week and a half, and then then first week of January I was up to 166. For two weeks after (I weigh-in once a week) I was 166, and 166.4. It wasn't until this week that it went down to 163.2. I think I was thrown off and frustrated by plateauing at 166 for three weeks. I'm worried that I'll just be stuck at 163.2 for the next few weeks as well.

So you've been doing this for about a month and you're not happy because you're not seeing the results you want?

Alyssa_Is_LosingIt

swagoner94 wrote: »

If I don't workout I'm strict to the 1,200. If I workout, I do go over. Not usually by too much though, meaning, I won't typically eat back every calorie I 'earned.'

cwolfman, I found your comment helpful. I will try to be mindful of my expectations.

To the others that talked about walking, maybe I will give this a try as well and at least experiment with this. It'd be difficult for me because I can't disassociate higher intensity with progress, but I'll try!

To the bolded: this is really a mindset that you need to try to get out of. High intensity cardio does not necessarily equal more weight loss.

Losing weight is all about calories in < calories out. You burn a certain amount of calories every day by just being alive and carrying out your normal daily activities. This is your maintenance number. Being more active can raise this number by some. All you have to do to lose weight is eat below this number. If you are eating below maintenance, you will lose weight. It's simple physics.

The people above who mention losing weight by just walking are onto something, I think. Some people find that adding in a whole lot of intense cardio exercise while trying to lose weight will make them a lot hungrier, causing them to inadvertently eat more. Also, constantly adding intensity and new workouts can lead to water retention, which can mask weight loss on the scale, making it look like you haven't made a lot of progress.

Being active is healthy. Killing yourself in the gym without properly fueling your workouts is not healthy. If I were you, I would tone down the intensity a bit. Maybe try some lower-impact cardio mixed with some resistance training (which, when paired with adequate protein consumption, can help you retain muscle as you're losing weight). Tighten up your logging. Do you have a food scale? If not, it could be a good idea to get one.

And I agree with @cwolfman13 - if you don't think 6 lbs in a month is not good progress, you need to lower your expectations a bit because that is great! At your current weight, a healthy rate of loss is going to be about 1 lb per week. Once you get down to below 20 lbs or so left to lose, a healthy rate of loss will be closer to .5 lb per week.

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish

Six pounds over about a month is not bad at all, probably judging by your picture its relatively fast for your size. As you get closer to your goal weight your losses will be more difficult, and the bigger you are, the faster weight drops.

Remember scales have an error margin of 1-2% sometimes, this means its possible to see +/-3lbs randomly just from scale error if you weigh 150lbs. You could have seen too much weight loss due to scale error on that first high loss measurement, and possibly normalization or reversed scale error caused the +1lb you recorded, when in reality your weight was more of a steady line down.

I seem to lose most steadily walking and counting also. I went through a period of several 2,000 calorie+ hikes per week plus weight training 3x/wk, but my appetite would massively spike and loss was unreliable compared to walking and counting (short maintenance lifting sessions too).

I would absolutely back off and give your body more chance to heal in between workouts. Part of the recent reduced weight loss may be inflammation due to working out too frequently and not giving your muscles adequate time to heal.

AnvilHead

swagoner94 wrote: »

If I don't workout I'm strict to the 1,200. If I workout, I do go over. Not usually by too much though, meaning, I won't typically eat back every calorie I 'earned.'

cwolfman, I found your comment helpful. I will try to be mindful of my expectations.

To the others that talked about walking, maybe I will give this a try as well and at least experiment with this. It'd be difficult for me because I can't disassociate higher intensity with progress, but I'll try!

Maybe this article by a well-respected and educated trainer will help. Knowledge is power: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/why-big-caloric-deficits-and-lots-of-activity-can-hurt-fat-loss.html/

swagoner94

legsnbacon wrote: »

swagoner94 wrote: »

cwolfman13 wrote: »

You've lost 6 Lbs in under a month...if you feel as though you're not getting results I would suggest that your expectations are a little out of whack. That's very solid progress on the weight loss front...I think you need to have more realistic expectations, particularly with only 30 Lbs to lose.

I'd say that in late December I weighed 169. I got down to 165 in a week and a half, and then then first week of January I was up to 166. For two weeks after (I weigh-in once a week) I was 166, and 166.4. It wasn't until this week that it went down to 163.2. I think I was thrown off and frustrated by plateauing at 166 for three weeks. I'm worried that I'll just be stuck at 163.2 for the next few weeks as well.

So you've been doing this for about a month and you're not happy because you're not seeing the results you want?

No. Late December is when I actually began weighing myself. My efforts began nearly 7 months ago.

swagoner94

SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish wrote: »

Six pounds over about a month is not bad at all, probably judging by your picture its relatively fast for your size. As you get closer to your goal weight your losses will be more difficult, and the bigger you are, the faster weight drops.

Remember scales have an error margin of 1-2% sometimes, this means its possible to see +/-3lbs randomly just from scale error if you weigh 150lbs. You could have seen too much weight loss due to scale error on that first high loss measurement, and possibly normalization or reversed scale error caused the +1lb you recorded, when in reality your weight was more of a steady line down.

I seem to lose most steadily walking and counting also. I went through a period of several 2,000 calorie+ hikes per week plus weight training 3x/wk, but my appetite would massively spike and loss was unreliable compared to walking and counting (short maintenance lifting sessions too).

I would absolutely back off and give your body more chance to heal in between workouts. Part of the recent reduced weight loss may be inflammation due to working out too frequently and not giving your muscles adequate time to heal.

Thank you, this was insightful. I appreciate your input and will give it a try.

swagoner94

Thank you all for your input. Per all your advice, I will rest up today and try the walking strategy. I'll also try to lower my expectations. Many people I work with have more weight to lose and being the one weighing them each week may take an affect on me. I see their numbers go down drastically week to week and get frustrated when I don't experience something similar. Thanks!

kshama2001

Sounds like this may apply to you:

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/dietary-restraint-and-cortisol-levels-research-review.html/

...a group of women who scored higher on dietary restraint scores showed elevated baseline cortisol levels. By itself this might not be problematic, but as often as not, these types of dieters are drawn to extreme approaches to dieting.

They throw in a lot of intense exercise, try to cut calories very hard (and this often backfires if disinhibition is high; when these folks break they break) and cortisol levels go through the roof. That often causes cortisol mediated water retention (there are other mechanisms for this, mind you, leptin actually inhibits cortisol release and as it drops on a diet, cortisol levels go up further). Weight and fat loss appear to have stopped or at least slowed significantly. This is compounded even further in female dieters due to the vagaries of their menstrual cycle where water balance is changing enormously week to week anyhow.

And invariably, this type of psychology responds to the stall by going even harder. They attempt to cut calories harder, they start doing more activity. The cycle continues and gets worse. Harder dieting means more cortisol means more water retention means more dieting. Which backfires (other problems come in the long-term with this approach but you’ll have to wait for the book to read about that).

When what they should do is take a day or two off (even one day off from training, at least in men, let’s cortisol drop significantly). Raise calories, especially from carbohydrates. This helps cortisol to drop. More than that they need to find a way to freaking chill out. Meditation, yoga, get a massage... Get in the bath, candles, a little Enya, a glass of wine, have some you-time but please just chill.

canadianlbs

swagoner94 wrote: »

But I know others are more hardcore and would say, suck it up! You want results!? Do work!

yeah . . . those people are fools.

AnvilHead

canadianlbs wrote: »

swagoner94 wrote: »

But I know others are more hardcore and would say, suck it up! You want results!? Do work!

yeah . . . those people are fools.

Those are the ones who are constantly recovering from some injury or other. It's difficult to make any kind of progress when you're constantly fighting injuries. But hey, they're tough though, right?!?