Crystal light or diet soda?

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  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
    edited February 2017
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    chrismellor01 wrote: »
    And as regards insulin causing weight gain - there is a mechanism and described in the many sources.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17924864

    Provides a mechanism for this.

    This next one if from Mayo clinic and further describes the process:

    http://www.medscape.org/viewarticle/567888

    I have deliberately avoided many of the .org posts and pseudo-science posts.

    As I say - until it's proven it's not an issue - personally I will avoid them where is possible.

    Can't read the second one as I don't have a login but the first one is talking about diabetics.
  • MrStabbems
    MrStabbems Posts: 3,110 Member
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    debate-a-thon
  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    malibu927 wrote: »
    Jhenryesq88310 wrote: »
    Neither. Both trick your body's insulin response and you end up storing weight. Yes diet drinks make you gain weight. Drink water. Add lemon or cucumber if you don't like the taste.

    Funny, I lost 60 pounds while drinking diet soda

    60 pounds is good going, well done. Really.

    Looking through the papers etc there is confusion as I'm starting to see.

    There is a mechanism that sweeteners influence insulin levels. There is a mechanism whereby insulin can influence weight gain. The human body is amazing thing and very complicated. What works for some, may cause others issues. Also, quantities are important.

    As one poster above says, 12 tins a day might not be a good idea.

    This is a contentious issue. There are two camps. There have been other threads on here that have led to flame wars.

    I know what I read and what I think. Others know what they think from what they read.

    Personally - I avoid the stuff.
  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    singingflutelady wrote: »
    I lived on diet coke when I was anorexic. I guess I'm odd since I lost a lot of weight and became dangerously underweight.

    I do not know the mechanism of your anorexia and I'm very sorry that you had to suffer that horrible disease. I have seen close up what it can do. How are you now?

    There are no calories in diet drinks (or very little) and so they will no on their own make you gain weight. But the sweeteners in them (according to evidence) affect insulin levels. It's the insulin level that has an affect in weight gain.

    Yes - many of those papers are about diabetics (both Type 1 & 2). That is where most of the research has been done.

  • aflane
    aflane Posts: 625 Member
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    How about flavored seltzer water? Just an alternate suggestion.
  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    trigden1991 wrote: »
    chrismellor01 wrote: »
    Jhenryesq88310 wrote: »
    Neither. Both trick your body's insulin response and you end up storing weight. Yes diet drinks make you gain weight. Drink water. Add lemon or cucumber if you don't like the taste.

    Yup - agreed - lots of evidence (i.e. real scientific papers) on this. Sweeteners (depending on which ones) do affect insulin levels. The others just keep you used to wanting sweet things (psychological) and make it that much harder...

    As suggested above - water is best and if you need something in it - a few slices of fruit :)

    And now let the flame wars begin.

    There is no research showing this!

    You cannot gain fat without a calorie surplus.

    You are correct - you cannot gain fat without calorie surplus (in general). No discussion there...

    Where there is confusion is that artificial sweeteners affect insulin levels. There is a mechanism that insulin resistance (type 2) is negatively affected by sweeteners and that puts weight on.

    There is also evidence that the flora and fauna of your gut has a large roll to play in metabolism. There is evidence that sweeteners affect the flora/fauna in your gut. This could have a direct reflection on weight gain etc.

    The problem is, we just don't know enough about it all and there is contradictory evidence at times.

    It's up to the reader to make their own mind up.
  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    bagge72 wrote: »
    Jhenryesq88310 wrote: »
    Neither. Both trick your body's insulin response and you end up storing weight. Yes diet drinks make you gain weight. Drink water. Add lemon or cucumber if you don't like the taste.

    Tricks it into doing what? I never got the whole "artificial sweetener makes your body release insulin" thing. I mean the major sweeteners that people talk about are 0 on the GI scale, and there would probably be a lot of dead diabetics if it did what people claim it does.

    There is evidence that sweeteners do affect insulin. This is caused by certain parts of the structure mimicking intermediate metabolites (I'm not a biochemist and it's along time since I've done any). But - there are also some papers that refute this.

    So - you reads your information, you makes your informed choice.
  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    diannethegeek wrote: »
    I'm just going to leave this here: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/1308408/why-aspartame-isnt-scary/p1

    Aspartame is just one sweetener. And to be fair, there is so much information and interpretation going on - there is no one definitive answer. Unfortunately.

    There are many other issue going on, besides the biochemical. Psychology plays a big part, sweet things make you want more sweet things etc. There is also what effect foodstuffs have on your digestive system (flora/fauna) - this is now being show to be very important.

    At end of day there are as many right and wrongs as there are individuals.

    Moderation in all things and make your choices on informed reading.

    Be aware of sources that also try to sell you things and also sources that offer to have "the answer". Also when sources are funded by the very people that the article is about.
  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    WinoGelato wrote: »

    Even if certain sweeteners do affect insulin as you've stated, why do individuals with no issues with insulin sensitivity or insulin resistance, need to be concerned about this?

    Why would be concerned about anything?

    We always thought that lots of sunlight was great for you until we realized that too much gives you cancer. Now, we know enough to put sun screen on or cover up.

    IF there is something that may affect my health, I think I need to be concerned to the point where I read about it and make my own choice.

    One of the things about having excess weight is that often insulin resistance is not diagnosed. Tiredness and all that is seen as a symptom of being too "fat". Maybe the tiredness is really the insulin resistance? I don't know.

  • chrismellor01
    chrismellor01 Posts: 77 Member
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    diannethegeek wrote: »
    Which other sweeteners are you worried about in Crystal Light or diet sodas? You mentioned sugar alcohols before. I've never come across them in diet drinks. Which are they in? Why does craving sweeter things (which has never been a problem for me with diet sodas - if anything they help curb my cravings) matter to someone counting calories and staying in a deficit? Why do you think I don't know how to vet a source or that the link I posted is trying to sell something or funded by Big Aspartame? Of the two of you, I think I'll trust the biochemist who wrote the link I posted.

    If you've never come across the term - then read the source that it comes from. It's quite interesting and fairly new research. It goes some ways to explain the issue.

    You trust who you like. I have no problems with that in either way.

    Informed discussion and the ability to agree to disagree is something I hope we can at least agree upon?

  • crzycatlady1
    crzycatlady1 Posts: 1,930 Member
    edited February 2017
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    Jhenryesq88310 wrote: »
    Neither. Both trick your body's insulin response and you end up storing weight. Yes diet drinks make you gain weight. Drink water. Add lemon or cucumber if you don't like the taste.

    No they don't. I lost 50lbs while drinking several servings of diet soda every day. I'm now several years of successfully maintaining a bmi of around 21, while still drinking diet soda every day. All of my health markers and blood work panels are consistently good as well, including having a former prediabetic glucose number now normalized into the 80s and 90s.

    Op, either is fine :)
  • diannethegeek
    diannethegeek Posts: 14,776 Member
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    chrismellor01 wrote: »
    diannethegeek wrote: »
    Which other sweeteners are you worried about in Crystal Light or diet sodas? You mentioned sugar alcohols before. I've never come across them in diet drinks. Which are they in? Why does craving sweeter things (which has never been a problem for me with diet sodas - if anything they help curb my cravings) matter to someone counting calories and staying in a deficit? Why do you think I don't know how to vet a source or that the link I posted is trying to sell something or funded by Big Aspartame? Of the two of you, I think I'll trust the biochemist who wrote the link I posted.

    If you've never come across the term - then read the source that it comes from. It's quite interesting and fairly new research. It goes some ways to explain the issue.

    You trust who you like. I have no problems with that in either way.

    Informed discussion and the ability to agree to disagree is something I hope we can at least agree upon?

    Sugar alcohols? I've come across the term many times. I've never come across them as an ingredient in diet drinks - the topic of the discussion here. I'm trying to learn why you brought them up here. But you seem more interested in assuming I'm stupid than in having an informed debate.
  • singingflutelady
    singingflutelady Posts: 8,736 Member
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    diannethegeek wrote: »
    chrismellor01 wrote: »
    diannethegeek wrote: »
    Which other sweeteners are you worried about in Crystal Light or diet sodas? You mentioned sugar alcohols before. I've never come across them in diet drinks. Which are they in? Why does craving sweeter things (which has never been a problem for me with diet sodas - if anything they help curb my cravings) matter to someone counting calories and staying in a deficit? Why do you think I don't know how to vet a source or that the link I posted is trying to sell something or funded by Big Aspartame? Of the two of you, I think I'll trust the biochemist who wrote the link I posted.

    If you've never come across the term - then read the source that it comes from. It's quite interesting and fairly new research. It goes some ways to explain the issue.

    You trust who you like. I have no problems with that in either way.

    Informed discussion and the ability to agree to disagree is something I hope we can at least agree upon?

    Sugar alcohols? I've come across the term many times. I've never come across them as an ingredient in diet drinks - the topic of the discussion here. I'm trying to learn why you brought them up here. But you seem more interested in assuming I'm stupid than in having an informed debate.

    Sugar alcohols in diet drinks would be a sister unless they are listed as laxatives ;)

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