Runners: Why so slow?

lilawolf

I've heard/seen on numerous threads: "SLOW DOWN!", "Get passed by power walking grannies", and "you should be able to sing/hold a convo while running" etc.

The question: Why shouldn't I be a panting, red faced mess after my run? Why shouldn't I be trying to go faster/further almost every single run? Now, I do occasionally enjoy a long, slow, meditative sort of run especially over beautiful terrain, but generally why shouldn't I be pushing? The only things I can think of is motivation and injury. If you hate it, you won't do it, but all of my workouts are all out (running, martial arts, or lifting). If my shin splints came back or I was more than just a little sore, I would listen to my body (like Wednesday).

Been a long break. Best 5k time last summer was 29:50 I think? This week I'm back at it, and been pushing hard every time:
Monday: 32:59
Tuesday: 32:31
Wednesday rest
Thursday (today): 31:25

jennybearlv

One of those appears to be my quote which was made to a new runner doing C25K, where the advice to slow down frequently applies. It sounds as if you are an experienced runner, so listening to your body sounds like a good plan for you.

lilawolf

jennybearlv wrote: »

One of those appears to be my quote which was made to a new runner doing C25K, where the advice to slow down frequently applies. It sounds as if you are an experienced runner, so listening to your body sounds like a good plan for you.

Lol, your pic looks familiar so probably. Not poking fun at all. So you're saying that all/most of the "slow down until you can sing" advice is aimed at new runners?

ETA: Engrish is hard

MeanderingMammal

It's about running at a pace that allows you to complete your objective.

If that's a best effort 5K, then 22 minutes after the start then I'll be hanging, but that's not the pace to aim for if I'm doing another 30K afterwards.

The reason it's useful advice for new runners is that they're frequently going at a pace that doesn't allow them to complete the sessions.

cwolfman13

It's usually advice to a novice runner who is struggling to hit their requisite mileage. Kind of pointless to go fast and not be able to complete your run.

VintageFeline

Yeah I see this mostly advised to new runners. I had someone ask me if I knew how they should get past a point in C25K that were stalled at. I told them to slow down. Bam, got past the hump.

lilawolf

Ok, so as a follow up then..... Are you experience runners spent/panting/DONE when you finish your goal distance? Never, sometimes, most of the time, always?

BrunetteRunner87

I guess it would depend on how long the run is and fitness level. Like someone said the goal is to get through the assigned mileage as quickly as you can, and that can mean going slow. Some people need to go slow to get through 15 miles, some people need to go slow to get through 1. If you can go fast for 3 miles then that's great, but of course you probably won't maintain that through 15.

StaciMarie1974

Personally I'm going slower so I can go longer/further. Once I have the longer/further under control, I'll stress less on slowing down.

I did a 5k each of the last couple weekends. First one I walked @ 1 mile mark then alternated. Finished 37:35. Second my initial run went a little longer, but still ended up alternating running and walking. Finished 36:02.

I know that if I run slower I can run (without walking) for a longer distance. Yesterday at lunch, I went for 3.1 miles in 34 minutes. That was about .15 miles walking to get to my running location (dealing with traffic, crossing a street and such). I kept my time around the 10:30 minutes per mile mark and felt really good.

My current goal is to run a 10k, completely, at or under 1 hour & 10 minutes.

spiriteagle99

There are adaptations that happen when your body is going more slowly. You become more efficient at burning fat for fuel instead of glycogen. Your body creates capillaries and mitochondria to send oxygen to the muscles. You become better at using oxygen. Aerobic exercise means using oxygen. Running all out doesn't use oxygen well.

For most people, going slowly allows them to go farther. i.e. running 10 miles at a 6 mph pace is easier than running it at an 8 mph pace. When you are puffing and panting, you run out of energy pretty quickly. If you are doing only short fitness runs, that is less important, but for anyone who enjoys racing, going farther is the best training.

Then there is the injury aspect. If you are doing fast intervals or tempo miles, after a nice long warm up and with a good long cooldown, you can probably run fast a couple of times a week without getting injured. But if you just go out and run as hard as you can on cold muscles, you definitely risk injury, and probably long term injury. Hamstrings especially really don't like that.

MeanderingMammal

Depends on the objectives.

Personally only after a speed session, which is usually only a 10-13km session.

For longer runs the purpose is developing aerobic capacity, which isn't done effectively at the higher intensities.

zdyb23456

I think it has to do with building fast twitch and slow twitch muscles.

I've done a lot of reading on Runner's World and think they have great informative articles. Elite runners do most of their training at "slow" pace. They didn't get to be elite runners by ignoring sound training advice.

I think at the beginning it's ok to run at a pace you are comfortable with (fast or slow). At some point, PRs will come slower and you'll look into training strategies to hit those PRs.

VintageFeline

I haven't run in a while but I'm a terrible example of how you should feel at the end of a run because I run through anxiety/panic attacks 99% of the time. Always puffing by the end.

jennybearlv

lilawolf wrote: »

jennybearlv wrote: »

One of those appears to be my quote which was made to a new runner doing C25K, where the advice to slow down frequently applies. It sounds as if you are an experienced runner, so listening to your body sounds like a good plan for you.

Lol, your pic looks familiar so probably. Not poking fun at all. So you're saying that all/most of the "slow down until you can sing" advice is aimed at new runners?

ETA: Engrish is hard

I'm not a particularly experienced runner. For the past few years I've ran C25K over winter, then stopped running until the next year, so I feel like I have a great deal of experience with being a beginning runner, but I'm not not really sure what sort of advice applies to people who have actually stuck with it. Sorry, if I'm no help. I do finally live somewhere where I can run in the Spring without melting my shoes, so I'll nose in on the subject once I know more about it. Give me a few more months.

It's okay to poke fun at getting passed by power walking grannies. It was a real life experience for me, and I found it embarrassing for a moment, then decided it was hilarious.

VioletRojo

lilawolf wrote: »

Ok, so as a follow up then..... Are you experience runners spent/panting/DONE when you finish your goal distance? Never, sometimes, most of the time, always?

Am I doing intervals or speed work? Then yes, every time.
A Moderately paced training run? Maybe.
A long run where I'm working on a new distance? No, never. I'd never reach my objective if I were running too fast.

The advise to slow down is directed at new runner who are having trouble reaching their distance goals. Experienced runners know how to listen to their bodies to reach their goals.

Charlene_1985

I run about 35 miles per week. I've settled into running at a pace which leaves me winded but not gasping for 16 of those miles. For 6 of them, I am running at 90%, like if I'm running a 10K. The other 10-15 is a slow pace that allows me to feel like I could go forever. Years ago when I first started running, I was pushing myself each run. I was exhausted, sore, and grumpy all the time. This "schedule" is much more manageable if I have the day off I run my long run on and other than some soreness after some hills or the day after my monthly massage, I've been feeling pretty decent. I've been following this plan since October after I hurt my hip at work (non running injury). With this volume, an active job, some tennis, swimming, and biking added in how we, I am having difficulty keeping weight on. I say don't stress your body too much by demanding too much performance.

NorthCascades

lilawolf wrote: »

Now, I do occasionally enjoy a long, slow, meditative sort of run especially over beautiful terrain, but generally why shouldn't I be pushing?

If a little bit of challenge is good, more has to be better, right? (Same kind of thinking: if a few chips are good, the whole bag is better. If 500 kCal per day deficit is good, a 1,500 kCal deficit is better.)

Exercise improves your fitness, in different ways depending on the kind of exercise you did. But it also "harms" you temporarily, and you have to take time to recover. (That "harm" aka "stress" is what causes you to improve.) That time you spend recovering tends to be spent on your butt.

Going so hard that you're a sweaty, panting pile of goo improves your fitness, but needs a lot of recovery time. Going at a moderate pace also improves your fitness, but doesn't require much recovery time at all.

But it's more than that. Going as hard as you can improves your anaerobic system, which is extremely limited, it can sustain you for about 20 minutes and not much longer. Good training for sprinters, not so much for anything to do with endurance. Going at a moderate pace improves your aerobic system, and is a "rising tide floats all boats" sort of thing.

The_Enginerd

This link has a pretty good explanation some of the science behind the why. In short, running your training runs faster won't lead to being faster beyond a certain point, and you increase your risk of injuries and wear yourself out so your other runs are lower quality.

https://runnersconnect.net/running-training-articles/aerobic-training-run-faster-by-running-easy/

When I first started running, I thought running faster in my training runs was necessary to run faster. I just injured myself while running twice a week (5k and a 10k run). Through slow and steady mileage build up and slowing down to more appropriate training paces, I've run training blocks for races averaging 40-45 MPW and peaking at 60 MPW with fewer issues than when I was running 10 MPW.

Especially as a newer runner, running slower, but higher mileage will yield the biggest benefits to increasing speed. I set a 5k PR by training for a 1/2 marathon, and then another big PR by training for a marathon.

For reference, I run most easy training runs at an 8:30-9:00 pace. My last marathon pace was ~7:10.

cwolfman13

lilawolf wrote: »

Ok, so as a follow up then..... Are you experience runners spent/panting/DONE when you finish your goal distance? Never, sometimes, most of the time, always?

Not a runner, but I ride. Not every ride is a sufferfest...not every ride is me trying to PR a 20K time trial. Working at a variety of intensities does different things to the body and does different things for your fitness. I do a sprint/tempo interval session about once per week and it leaves me pretty gassed...it's about 30 minutes long. If I do a 20K I usually do so at tempo which leaves me winded, but not red faced and totally gassed...maybe once or twice per month I'll go do a race pace 20K. My longer rides are done at an endurance pace because my objective is distance. Ironically, doing slower, longer rides has also improved my speed on shorter rides and increased my tempo pace. Endurance rides also provide for nice recovery from more intensive bouts.

BeeerRunner

Running slow can help you go faster. 80% of your running should be at a conversational pace. No one is saying 100% of your runs should be slow. As you move from beginner to novice, incorporating speed work into your weekly routine will help improve your speed. Intervals, tempo runs, race pace runs, etc are some examples of speed workouts.

Part of this is to help prevent injury, and part is to improve your endurance...your ability to run further for longer. I just finished my 1st marathon, and I definitely plan to run most of my long runs slower. During the marathon, my heart rate never got super high, but it took everything I had to keep my legs going after 22 miles. That's where the long slow run is beneficial. The more time spent running, the better your muscle endurance as you get into marathon distance and higher. You shouldn't do all fast or all slow. It's fine to incorporate some strides into a regular run, and some long runs should have a fast finish.

My fastest 5K is 22:00 and I finished my 1st marathon in 3:54:06 as a 40+ female. I'm not the fastest, but I'm definitely not slow either. I'm usually in the top 15% or less of my gender and for my age group. I'm not trying to brag, but just show what I've accomplished as an experienced runner who doesn't do all my runs at break neck speed.

girlwithcurls2

When I run with my sister, we use the "be able to talk" rule. We are getting in a run, but also sister time. As well, we're trail running, so there are hills, some long, some short, some steep, some gradual. We try to continue our conversations through it all. Lots of times though, it's just too hard to talk over hills. By the end, we are always a sweaty, panting mess, but mostly because as we warm up, we tend to get faster, and better able to manage conversation while we run. We average 10K once a week.