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What do you think are the environmental factors of obesity and how best can we reduce their impact?
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caroldavison332 wrote: »We tend to look like our genetic group. Eskimos tend to be short and round to retain heat, the Sudanese tend to be tall and then to dissapate it. I read a scientific study that identical twins adopted out are as fat/non fat as their adoptive parents. We also moved from physically working in the fields that expended calories. That why the Amish who still do can eat a big meal and shoe fly p pie for dessert. We also replaced the nutrition and non processed carb of roast beef, veg and baked potato with a sugary coke and carby, fattening Big Mac that we can eat while driving to the mall and not even notice that we have consumed a meal and eat again afterward. To overcome my peasant body type I PLAN to eat for strength with lots of protein, Dr Gabe Fuhrman's GBOMBS diet G(bitter greens like collard, kale, turnip top, watercress), Beans, Onions, Mushrooms, Berries and Seeds because eaten together these foods catalyze each other's disease fighting properties. I am SHOCKED at how happy I feel eating like this, and believe that people are under nourished and overfeed. If I have remaining calories, I sprinkle in some junk but no longer subsist on it.
I'm amazed that someone else knows what shoo-fly pie is! I'm Mennonite background, and my mom makes those, lol. Most people are like What? when I tell them about them.1 -
I think food consumption and food environment are the big issues.
Culture may contribute to food environment and hence what one eats.
Individual psychology will contribute. I think many of these issues are linked to what you eat though.
I know plenty of people who are overweight and active. There is a not a strong correlation there. For most athletes, I think they are slim due to what, and how much, they eat. Activity environment won't affect weight much for that reason.caroldavison332 wrote: »We tend to look like our genetic group. Eskimos tend to be short and round to retain heat, the Sudanese tend to be tall and then to dissapate it. I read a scientific study that identical twins adopted out are as fat/non fat as their adoptive parents. We also moved from physically working in the fields that expended calories. That why the Amish who still do can eat a big meal and shoe fly p pie for dessert. We also replaced the nutrition and non processed carb of roast beef, veg and baked potato with a sugary coke and carby, fattening Big Mac that we can eat while driving to the mall and not even notice that we have consumed a meal and eat again afterward. To overcome my peasant body type I PLAN to eat for strength with lots of protein, Dr Gabe Fuhrman's GBOMBS diet G(bitter greens like collard, kale, turnip top, watercress), Beans, Onions, Mushrooms, Berries and Seeds because eaten together these foods catalyze each other's disease fighting properties. I am SHOCKED at how happy I feel eating like this, and believe that people are under nourished and overfeed. If I have remaining calories, I sprinkle in some junk but no longer subsist on it.
The inuit are fairly short but I wouldn't call them round. They were a lean people, but they do have rounder and relatively flat faces which makes them appear less lean. They do tend to have shorter limbs than the more southern First Nations peoples.
Sorry. It's off topic, but I've seen this a few times recently and I just wanted to chime in.
I do agree that people do better eating like their ancestors of the distant past did. I'm of northern European descent and tend to feel my best avoiding sugars, a lot of starches and many fruits.2 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks?
The one I was walking around in in my example above was Oak Brook, IL.
Here's a little article from a few years ago about a sidewalk controversy in Western Springs, IL (some residents thought a sidewalk would be bad for property values): http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/2008/09/09/western-springs-couple-continues-fight-against-sidewalk/z6bay5i/2 -
No sidewalks on my street either. There is a drug store within walking distance but the closest grocer is a few kilometres away. Too far while carrying groceries for a family.2
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cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks? I live in a suburb of Albuquerque...we have side walks.
The one I grew up in was in Indiana and was built in the 60s. The one I lived in in NC was built in the 80s.
I'm now in OH and before we bought this house in our walkable small town, we were in a neighborhood that had sidewalks within the neighborhood bounds but to leave the neighborhood (for shopping, dining, etc) you really had to drive a car for safety reasons.
Is your suburb very recently built? I know that there has been a lot of emphasis in the last ten years on "walkable downtowns" in planned communities. In any case- sounds like you have a great set up
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cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks? I live in a suburb of Albuquerque...we have side walks. I have a grocery store about a mile away and we often walk if we're just picking up a few things. There's a nice little local restaurant about 1.5 miles away that we often walk to for breakfast on weekends as a family...in fact, there are any number of places that we could walk to around us, including school if we were so inclined. I've never lived in the city...I and my extended family have always lived in the burbs so I'm really not sure I'm buying that.
I think the town I live in is actually considered 'rural suburban.' 15k-ish population, about 1.5 hours north of Dallas metroplex. My neighborhood was built in the 1950's and is 1/2 block from the intermediate (4-6th grade) school. It was a hospital when the neighborhood was originally built. No sidewalks. The same is true for virtually all of the rest of the town. I really resent that I either have to get in my car and *drive* to a park with paths, walk along the side of the road and hope I don't get mowed down, or else walk across people's front yards.
I live in Louisville, KY a quite a few really nice neighborhoods do not even have sidewalks here, they are also full of cul-de-sacs that can turn what should be a five block walk into a mile & a half trek (unless you cut through backyards). The suburb my aunt & uncle live in was built in the 70s, and even though they are about a mile from the grocery store it would be a very difficult/dangerous walk without sidewalks.1 -
I moved from the southern US to New England a couple of years ago. Comparing myself to the general population, I was fairly normal down there, even at my highest weight (248 lbs, 5'10"). Down there, I rarely saw people out running or biking. The same three people walked by my house every day; that's all. Lots of very busy fast food places. The schools were built in isolated areas so walking or biking there isn't an option.
Up here, I'm most definitely fat. Up here, the bike path is well-populated all day. There are fast food places, but not as many and people are more likely to eat at independent restaurants. There are crossing-guards near the schools. My kids were shocked to find out that kids actually walk and bike to school. "Wait, you can do that?!?"
It was actually a trigger for me to try to get fit. I'm now down to where I don't feel like I stick out like a sore thumb because I'm so fat. Now I just stick out because I'm taller than most (lots of Italians here, and I'm Scandinavian). 4 -
Ignoring diet/exercise, thermal environment is likely the most important, followed closely by gut microbiome.
We spent a long time believing that brown adipose tissue was something that was only active in babies, but it turns out that this is untrue. In normal, healthy adults in countries with cold weather, BAT is active in significant quantities. In short, never being exposed to cold (for long enough to cool surface temperature enough to induce non-shivering thermogenesis) and/or being overweight/obese both disable BAT.
Why does this matter? In addition to providing a way for the body to use white adipose tissue ("fat") to generate heat when cold, BAT also allows the body to efficiently burn off a large caloric surplus (diet-induced thermogenesis), helping to prevent excess fat storage.
The negative is, once you are obese, you've already broken most of these systems in your body, and it is unknown whether they can ever return to normal, even after attaining and maintaining a healthy weight, as it appears that obesity leads to permanent hormonal and metabolic changes.
There is a pretty substantial amount of research validating this already (just grabbed the first decent looking one I found as I am short on time, but scholar.google.com will turn up a bunch):
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3975627/
or for a more layman friendly article: https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-gravity-weight/201606/body-weight-in-the-time-climate-control
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livingleanlivingclean wrote: »As a kid we used to run around, play outside, spend days playing, biking, doing activities walking to the shops, doing errands etc .... Not like many of the kids these days, stuck on a couch in front of the TV or game console, or on the computer, or stuck inside because of the "dangers" outside.
I think how kids are brought up is going to have a huge effect on the health of the population in the future
Yep
The family next door has 6 kids ranging from around 7 to 13 years old. The boys are out shooting baskets while waiting for the school bus, and outside playing after school and on weekends unless pouring down rain or below 20F degrees. The oldest girl is on the school track and cross country team.
Guess what, none of them are close to overweight.2 -
@wackyfunster - that psych today story was so interesting! Thanks for sharing. Incentive to turn down the thermostat too Better for the planet, my wallet, and maybe my weight ? 1
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StarBrightStarBright wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks? I live in a suburb of Albuquerque...we have side walks.
The one I grew up in was in Indiana and was built in the 60s. The one I lived in in NC was built in the 80s.
I'm now in OH and before we bought this house in our walkable small town, we were in a neighborhood that had sidewalks within the neighborhood bounds but to leave the neighborhood (for shopping, dining, etc) you really had to drive a car for safety reasons.
Is your suburb very recently built? I know that there has been a lot of emphasis in the last ten years on "walkable downtowns" in planned communities. In any case- sounds like you have a great set up
No, it's actually super old and semi rural...the village is just outside of Albuquerque and was established in the 1800s...our actual neighborhoods don't have sidewalks...and if I lived further into the heart of the village there aren't any sidewalks, but it's a small community and everyone walks around and bikes around and whatnot...speed limit anywhere in the village is 30 MPH or less. Main street can be kind of dicey at times but other than that it's not too much of an issue.
The other primary road through the village is relatively new...used to be dirt and they put in a bike path on that road...which is pretty awesome because if I leave my house and go north and turn around right as the road turns up hill and west into Rio Rancho and back home, it's exactly a 20K time trial run. We also have a lot of dirt trails along the irrigation asequias that people use to get around while avoiding traffic (though you're likely to run into some horses). We're also right on the Rio Grande so some nice trails back in there.
I live right on the edge of the village so we basically bump right up to the Albuquerque city limits as well as the Rio Rancho city limits which is where the market and restaurants are...so I guess technically all of that stuff is actually in the city. Probably wouldn't walk to them if I lived further into the heart of the village as distance would be an issue.1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks? I live in a suburb of Albuquerque...we have side walks. I have a grocery store about a mile away and we often walk if we're just picking up a few things. There's a nice little local restaurant about 1.5 miles away that we often walk to for breakfast on weekends as a family...in fact, there are any number of places that we could walk to around us, including school if we were so inclined. I've never lived in the city...I and my extended family have always lived in the burbs so I'm really not sure I'm buying that.
I think the town I live in is actually considered 'rural suburban.' 15k-ish population, about 1.5 hours north of Dallas metroplex. My neighborhood was built in the 1950's and is 1/2 block from the intermediate (4-6th grade) school. It was a hospital when the neighborhood was originally built. No sidewalks. The same is true for virtually all of the rest of the town. I really resent that I either have to get in my car and *drive* to a park with paths, walk along the side of the road and hope I don't get mowed down, or else walk across people's front yards.
I live in what I call a semirural township. There are sidewalks in the newer neighborhoods but there aren't sidewalks going from the neighborhoods to the grocery store or schools. I used to work in town just two miles from home. I walked there one day and then said never again because my legs were soaked from the morning dew that was all over the roadside grass and I got tired of dealing with the ditches on either side of the road. It's not walkable at all.
I asked my daughter the other day if any kids walk to school and she said that the only ones she's seen are the few whose backyards abut the back of the school yard. It's not safe for the vast majority of kids simply due to lack of sidewalks, roadside ditches, roads covered in loose stone (we don't get repaved, we get "chip and seal" which is when they pour down a thin layer of asphalt and then pour a layer of stone chips and the action of cars driving over it is supposed to press the stones into the asphalt and recoat the road), etc.1 -
StarBrightStarBright wrote: »Gallowmere1984 - I don't think it is "falling so far" as much as adjusting to the ever-changing infrastructure/society. Our grand/great grandparents didn't get fat because they likely worked more physical jobs and got more activity because their towns/lives were actually structured that way.
My grandfather was a milk man for years (driving a horse-drawn cart) and then an insurance salesmen (door to door) he lived within walking distance of his grocery store, church, barber shop, etc. I work a 50 hour a week deskjob and grew up in a nice suburb with no sidewalks and had to be driven everywhere that needed going.
Physical infrastructure has dramatically changed in the last 100 years to specifically limit activitiy while caloric abundance has drastically risen at the same time - a recipe for disaster.
I think the idea of creating healthy infrastructure is about "forcing"/allowing people to be active. I will not bike on a busy road that does not have a nice bike lane- it scares me. But give me a nice wide bike lane and I will happily bike.
Sorry it's only a recipe for disaster if individuals don't take personal responsibly to limit their food intake.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »StarBrightStarBright wrote: »Gallowmere1984 - I don't think it is "falling so far" as much as adjusting to the ever-changing infrastructure/society. Our grand/great grandparents didn't get fat because they likely worked more physical jobs and got more activity because their towns/lives were actually structured that way.
My grandfather was a milk man for years (driving a horse-drawn cart) and then an insurance salesmen (door to door) he lived within walking distance of his grocery store, church, barber shop, etc. I work a 50 hour a week deskjob and grew up in a nice suburb with no sidewalks and had to be driven everywhere that needed going.
Physical infrastructure has dramatically changed in the last 100 years to specifically limit activitiy while caloric abundance has drastically risen at the same time - a recipe for disaster.
I think the idea of creating healthy infrastructure is about "forcing"/allowing people to be active. I will not bike on a busy road that does not have a nice bike lane- it scares me. But give me a nice wide bike lane and I will happily bike.
Sorry it's only a recipe for disaster if individuals don't take personal responsibly to limit their food intake.
Why not both? 1 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks? I live in a suburb of Albuquerque...we have side walks. I have a grocery store about a mile away and we often walk if we're just picking up a few things. There's a nice little local restaurant about 1.5 miles away that we often walk to for breakfast on weekends as a family...in fact, there are any number of places that we could walk to around us, including school if we were so inclined. I've never lived in the city...I and my extended family have always lived in the burbs so I'm really not sure I'm buying that.
I think the town I live in is actually considered 'rural suburban.' 15k-ish population, about 1.5 hours north of Dallas metroplex. My neighborhood was built in the 1950's and is 1/2 block from the intermediate (4-6th grade) school. It was a hospital when the neighborhood was originally built. No sidewalks. The same is true for virtually all of the rest of the town. I really resent that I either have to get in my car and *drive* to a park with paths, walk along the side of the road and hope I don't get mowed down, or else walk across people's front yards.
I live in what I call a semirural township. There are sidewalks in the newer neighborhoods but there aren't sidewalks going from the neighborhoods to the grocery store or schools. I used to work in town just two miles from home. I walked there one day and then said never again because my legs were soaked from the morning dew that was all over the roadside grass and I got tired of dealing with the ditches on either side of the road. It's not walkable at all.
I asked my daughter the other day if any kids walk to school and she said that the only ones she's seen are the few whose backyards abut the back of the school yard. It's not safe for the vast majority of kids simply due to lack of sidewalks, roadside ditches, roads covered in loose stone (we don't get repaved, we get "chip and seal" which is when they pour down a thin layer of asphalt and then pour a layer of stone chips and the action of cars driving over it is supposed to press the stones into the asphalt and recoat the road), etc.
Quite a few kids walk to this school (including my youngest son for the 2 years we've lived here. Next year he'll move to the junior high school, which he can't walk to *sniff*) but it's not ideal or particularly safe! The elementary school in our neighborhood is on a much busier street with no sidewalks. I can't imagine many kids walk to it. The traffic jams around drop off and pick up time suggest they don't...1 -
wellthenwhat wrote: »
I'm amazed that someone else knows what shoo-fly pie is! I'm Mennonite background, and my mom makes those, lol. Most people are like What? when I tell them about them.
When I was a kid in Pennsylvania in the '70s and '80s, shoo-fly pie was very common. McDonalds, on the other hand, was a once-per-year-on-your-birthday treat. The rest of the time everything we ate was homemade.
The people we thought of as "fat" back then would be considered average today.
Hell, the circus fat ladies of the early 20th-century aren't any bigger than what you'd see by the dozen on any given day at Wal-Mart.
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StarBrightStarBright wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »StarBrightStarBright wrote: »Gallowmere1984 - I don't think it is "falling so far" as much as adjusting to the ever-changing infrastructure/society. Our grand/great grandparents didn't get fat because they likely worked more physical jobs and got more activity because their towns/lives were actually structured that way.
My grandfather was a milk man for years (driving a horse-drawn cart) and then an insurance salesmen (door to door) he lived within walking distance of his grocery store, church, barber shop, etc. I work a 50 hour a week deskjob and grew up in a nice suburb with no sidewalks and had to be driven everywhere that needed going.
Physical infrastructure has dramatically changed in the last 100 years to specifically limit activitiy while caloric abundance has drastically risen at the same time - a recipe for disaster.
I think the idea of creating healthy infrastructure is about "forcing"/allowing people to be active. I will not bike on a busy road that does not have a nice bike lane- it scares me. But give me a nice wide bike lane and I will happily bike.
Sorry it's only a recipe for disaster if individuals don't take personal responsibly to limit their food intake.
Why not both?
Sure but personal responsibility for food intake doesn't require the tax dollars most governmental unit don't have (or are questionably spent).1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »DannyYMi54321 wrote: »In the US, three things are easy to pick out: it's the "food environment" - plenty of it, high in calories, fat, salt, low in fiber and nutrients; it's the lack of infrastructure designed to promote healthy lifestyles - for the "typical" American living in the suburbs, walking to work or to shopping, cultural, social sites isn't practical - distances are too great, suburbs aren't designed to be "pedestrian friendly"; and the culture is fixated on passive entertainment - watching sports rather than participating in them, video games instead of children playing outside, watching tv, movies, online entertainment constantly day and night.
I agree with you on the food, but have we really fallen so far as a species, that we need "infrastructure designed to promote a healthy lifestyle"? I wonder how our great-grandparents managed to not be fat, what with no bike lanes, sidewalks, or even paved roads in most places. I've never heard a hiker complain about a lack of infrastructure. If anything, quite the opposite.
The sad fact is, if people are going to be physically inactive, sinking millions of taxpayer dollars into said infrastructure isn't going to change that.
An example of how infrastructure impacts activity levels ... when I had a 2yo and a new baby many years ago I wanted to be as active as possible. I bought a pram that could hold them both and was designed for the parent to be able to jog.
Unfortunately, my suburb was built with footpaths only along main roads and they are cracked and in poor repair. To get from my house to the footpath roads I had to travel about 1km either pushing the pram laden with 2 babies on the road which was unsafe, or on the grass nature strips which were so irregular that one time my pram over balanced.
This made travelling by foot, even locally impractical and unsafe and so I drove even to the local shops and my incidental activity was drastically impacted.
The local 1st world is environment put limitations on my activity which would have been better with better infrastructure, and this was as a fit young mother.
Imagine an overweight individual with bad knees ... much easier to drive to the shops that walk if the paths are *kitten*.
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I would say sedentary jobs/lifestyles, greatly increased portion sizes, more time in cars/commuting for all ages, less recess or free play for kids, more calorie laden drinks consumed, vanity sizing, huge diet industry, and just plain ignoring calories.
I live in a small town. There are some sidewalks but many areas do not have them or they are in poor shape. People don't walk much. They don't spend as much time out in their yards. There is a nice walking trail near the school and a nice playground. Both are usually empty. There is not a gym. There are not many activities nearby. A guy walking 40,000 steps a day for 10 weeks made the local newspaper in a front page article a couple of months ago. Not everyone is overweight or obese in town but maybe it is easier to be very active in an area where it is more normal.
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cwolfman13 wrote: »StarBrightStarBright wrote: »cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks? I live in a suburb of Albuquerque...we have side walks.
The one I grew up in was in Indiana and was built in the 60s. The one I lived in in NC was built in the 80s.
I'm now in OH and before we bought this house in our walkable small town, we were in a neighborhood that had sidewalks within the neighborhood bounds but to leave the neighborhood (for shopping, dining, etc) you really had to drive a car for safety reasons.
Is your suburb very recently built? I know that there has been a lot of emphasis in the last ten years on "walkable downtowns" in planned communities. In any case- sounds like you have a great set up
No, it's actually super old and semi rural...the village is just outside of Albuquerque and was established in the 1800s...our actual neighborhoods don't have sidewalks...and if I lived further into the heart of the village there aren't any sidewalks, but it's a small community and everyone walks around and bikes around and whatnot...speed limit anywhere in the village is 30 MPH or less. Main street can be kind of dicey at times but other than that it's not too much of an issue.
The other primary road through the village is relatively new...used to be dirt and they put in a bike path on that road...which is pretty awesome because if I leave my house and go north and turn around right as the road turns up hill and west into Rio Rancho and back home, it's exactly a 20K time trial run. We also have a lot of dirt trails along the irrigation asequias that people use to get around while avoiding traffic (though you're likely to run into some horses). We're also right on the Rio Grande so some nice trails back in there.
I live right on the edge of the village so we basically bump right up to the Albuquerque city limits as well as the Rio Rancho city limits which is where the market and restaurants are...so I guess technically all of that stuff is actually in the city. Probably wouldn't walk to them if I lived further into the heart of the village as distance would be an issue.
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