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What do you think are the environmental factors of obesity and how best can we reduce their impact?
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I currently live in Sweden specifically in Stockholm.
We have all the infrastructure you could want for an outdoor health lifestyle.
An integrated cycle lane network reaching out literally tens of kilometers into the commuter belt. Floodlight at night and even with their own dedicated snow sweepers to keep them open in Winter.
Hundreds of maintained running/jogging routes around the city, local forests and lakes. Many floodlight at night.
Free to use outdoor ice rinks and x-country ski trails in winter.
Dozens of free outdoor gyms around the city and even a couple of adult obstacle courses.
Of course all of that comes at a price and you need to choose where you spend your money as a society. I think Sweden is ranked 92nd in the world obesity rankings.
All of that said I believe that obesity levels are rocketing mainly because people are eating too much, especially too much sugar, rather than not moving enough.
Where ever you are in Europe or the US it's amazingly easy for people to eat 1000-1500 or even 2000 kcals in a single meal and not have any idea what they are putting in themselves. Many will then be snacking within an hour.
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I think another point above that is interesting is societal influences. If you live in a community where most people are obese then your are much more likely to become obese as it feels more normal and is accepted as normal.
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My kid was messing with my laptop and somehow quoted and sent the above post- feel free to disregard
In general I think places established before WWII and the highway system in general are going to be much more conducive to walkability.
I love the post about airconditioning too. Think of how different and convenient our lives are compared to 80 years ago. Technology and politics (I'm specifically thinking of gov food recommendations in the 80s(?) and the removal of "imitation" labeling on certain foodstuffs like margarine) can have long term effects that we never even take into account but obviously humans evolved in certain conditions that are very unlike the way we currently live.
We either have to evolve or change our environments back to what they were or develop new habits (probably a little bit of all three).2 -
Might depend on the age of your great grandparents. It's quite probably mine wouldn't have worried much about being forced to walk in the road with the traffic. When they were growing up, the Model T Ford, which had a top speed of 45mph, wasn't even in production.Gallowmere1984 wrote: »DannyYMi54321 wrote: »In the US, three things are easy to pick out: it's the "food environment" - plenty of it, high in calories, fat, salt, low in fiber and nutrients; it's the lack of infrastructure designed to promote healthy lifestyles - for the "typical" American living in the suburbs, walking to work or to shopping, cultural, social sites isn't practical - distances are too great, suburbs aren't designed to be "pedestrian friendly"; and the culture is fixated on passive entertainment - watching sports rather than participating in them, video games instead of children playing outside, watching tv, movies, online entertainment constantly day and night.
I agree with you on the food, but have we really fallen so far as a species, that we need "infrastructure designed to promote a healthy lifestyle"? I wonder how our great-grandparents managed to not be fat, what with no bike lanes, sidewalks, or even paved roads in most places. I've never heard a hiker complain about a lack of infrastructure. If anything, quite the opposite.
The sad fact is, if people are going to be physically inactive, sinking millions of taxpayer dollars into said infrastructure isn't going to change that.
These days, walking in the road would be a lot more hazardous. When my grandmother was bringing up her children, one of their cats used to sleep in the road outside their house. She didn't get run over for months. This was in the sixties.
I've seen that house. These days, any young silly kitten that tried to sleep in that road would be dead in days.
But it's possible I might be a little bit grumpy because someone reversing out of his driveway (over the sidewalk) without looking nearly took out my seven-year-old on the way to school this week... Little things like that do seem to annoy me.
He was shaking the rest of the walk to school.
We won't even talk about the amount of reflective gear and lights I wear to cycle on road.
This is an article from a UK tabloid about accident statistics.
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/cyclist-deaths-you-17-times-6021412Shocking new figures have revealed how cyclists are more than 17 TIMES more likely to be killed on the road than motorists.
The massive gap in the safety of car and bike users are laid bear in new statistics from the Department for Transport.
It shows that for every one billion miles travelled on UK roads, 35 cyclists were killed in collisions compared to just two motorists in 2014.
Cyclists were also 23 times more likely to be involved in a crash than motorists with 6,588 injured per one billion miles travelled compared to just 286 car users.
Interesting insights on what cyclist is like in different countries.
I don't know if this is a reputable source, but it says that in the US, almost a third of recorded cycle accidents resulting in injury are caused by collisions with cars. I think it's reasonable to be hesitant to cycle if it means sharing road-space with motorised vehicles. A drop in cycle usage is inevitable.According to the 2012 National Survey on Bicyclist and Pedestrian Attitudes and Behaviors, nearly a third of all injuries are caused when bicyclists are struck by cars.
Six most Frequent Sources of Injury Percent
Hit by car 29
Fell 17
Roadway/walkway not in good repair 13
Rider error/not paying attention 13
Crashed/collision 7
Dog ran out 4
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Packerjohn wrote: »Sorry it's only a recipe for disaster if individuals don't take personal responsibly to limit their food intake.
You sound like the sort of person who would wave whisky under the nose of a recovering alcoholic and and then condemn them for falling off the wagon.
Our bodies and minds evolved in a scarcity economy; during the 3 billion years we've been evolving, it's usually been very important to eat when we have the chance, while stopping eating is largely taken care of by running out of food (this is much oversimplified, of course). This clearly predicts that, when plonked in an environment that has a superabundance of highly calorific food, humans are quite likely to eat too much of it. It takes effort not to.
Now, you could look into ways to reduce the environmental abundance, or you could help people find tricks and techniques to make the resistance less effortful; or you could have a go at the people who can't manage to resist.
Which of these strategies do you think might be most effective? Hint: not the one you're currently going for.9 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Sorry it's only a recipe for disaster if individuals don't take personal responsibly to limit their food intake.
You sound like the sort of person who would wave whisky under the nose of a recovering alcoholic and and then condemn them for falling off the wagon.
Our bodies and minds evolved in a scarcity economy; during the 3 billion years we've been evolving, it's usually been very important to eat when we have the chance, while stopping eating is largely taken care of by running out of food (this is much oversimplified, of course). This clearly predicts that, when plonked in an environment that has a superabundance of highly calorific food, humans are quite likely to eat too much of it. It takes effort not to.
Now, you could look into ways to reduce the environmental abundance, or you could help people find tricks and techniques to make the resistance less effortful; or you could have a go at the people who can't manage to resist.
Which of these strategies do you think might be most effective? Hint: not the one you're currently going for.
You are right, it takes effort not to overeat. Most things that are worth it require a bit of effort. Maybe if emotional issues lead to the overeating work in that area is also required.
IMO, saying our minds evolved in a scarcity economy is a cop out/victim mentality. The vast majority of overweight/obese people in the US have never been lacking for enough food in their lives.
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Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, saying our minds evolved in a scarcity economy is a cop out/victim mentality. The vast majority of overweight/obese people in the US have never been lacking for enough food in their lives.
What this mostly tells me is that you don't know what 'evolved' means.
Are you interested in solving the problem, or are you having too much fun berating people for having it?7 -
cwolfman13 wrote: »What are these suburbs with no sidewalks?
I live in a small town in Iowa - population about 5K. Sidewalks are not regulated... it is up to each individual homeowner to decide if they will install and maintain a sidewalk. As a result, we have sidewalks in some places that cover part of a block, sometimes the entire block has a sidewalk and the next block has none at all. Most places where there is a sidewalk are not well maintained.
There was a discussion recently in a Des Moines suburb (Windsor Heights, if you want to look this up) about sidewalks. Some residents wanted sidewalks installed in various places, and other residents (the more vocal ones) did not want sidewalks. One of the streets of highest contention is a very high-traffic street with sidewalks on only 1 side. There was debate about whether sidewalks should be installed on the other side without a sidewalk. Those who did not want sidewalks to be installed lobbied as though their life depended on having grass all the way to the road.1 -
VioletRojo wrote: »I think it largely has to do with the example set for us by our parents. If you see your parents living an active, healthy lifestyle, getting regular exercise, and making healthful food, we grow up thinking that's normal and are more apt to continue that lifestyle into adulthood. But if are parents come home from work and sit down in front of the TV, and serve frozen pizza for dinner every night, that's what we learn.
Yes, as adults we are responsible for our own actions, but when everyone around us is living the same way, it's hard to know that there's another way to live.
I totally agree! I think the environment you grow up in dictates largely what your attitude towards food is going to be as an adult. I am always reading articles and seeing new stories and TV shows about parents who are trying to help they're overweight children lose weight, but refused to make any changes themselves.
I think schools should add a more comprehensive education about exercise and health/nutrition. I am actually a big advocate for gym being required every year the kids are in school.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »IMO, saying our minds evolved in a scarcity economy is a cop out/victim mentality. The vast majority of overweight/obese people in the US have never been lacking for enough food in their lives.
What this mostly tells me is that you don't know what 'evolved' means.
Are you interested in solving the problem, or are you having too much fun berating people for having it?
Solving the obesity issue involves people ingesting fewer calories than they burn to lose the excess weight, than balancing input and output to maintaining a healthy weight. Any health professional will tell it is virtually impossible to out exercise a diet filled with a significant amount of excess calories. We can have "movement friendly" infrastructure till it covers every inch of the country and it won't make any difference if people eat significantly more calories than they burn.
My community has implemented a fairly large bike-way network in the last 25 years. Also virtually all neighborhoods have sidewalks (required by code since 1980).
Guess what despite this, overweight and obesity has increased over the last 25 years in the community.1 -
One point, which I find interesting, is the food environment that kids have at schools.
My nephews school has very few "healthy options" in the canteen and most things are foods like pizza, toasties, chips and chocolate/sweets - this is age 11-181 -
This discussion would benefit from contributions made by our friends in Venezuela.
Unfortunately, their local environment as influenced by their socio-political system leaves them with little access to electricity and the internet. And money. And food.3 -
Really it is people making poor food choices and getting fat.4
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@packerjohn - do you know if obesity rates in your area have risen more slowly compared to other areas or at the same rate? To me it seems like common sense that communities that encourage activity would have lower rates than other areas - but I would love to know if the data backs that up.
The only real data I've found has been at the state level and the least fat states seem to either be places with strong outdoor cultures (CO, Hawaii, CA) or large metro areas where walking and public transport are the norm for huge chunks of the popluation (NY, MA).
I'd love to know some breakouts at more local levels.1 -
I live in a bad area and can no longer walk my dogs in my neighborhood. A crazy armed neighbor who threatened us with a gun, getting punched in the face, a guy who tried to force me into his house.... I used to walk them every single day, now I have to put them in the car and drive them to a safer area, so I really only do it once a week. So the environment can affect your ability to exercise for sure.3
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JeromeBarry1 wrote: »This discussion would benefit from contributions made by our friends in Venezuela.
Unfortunately, their local environment as influenced by their socio-political system leaves them with little access to electricity and the internet. And money. And food.
Are you trying to be sarcastic or ironic?2 -
StarBrightStarBright wrote: »@packerjohn - do you know if obesity rates in your area have risen more slowly compared to other areas or at the same rate? To me it seems like common sense that communities that encourage activity would have lower rates than other areas - but I would love to know if the data backs that up.
The only real data I've found has been at the state level and the least fat states seem to either be places with strong outdoor cultures (CO, Hawaii, CA) or large metro areas where walking and public transport are the norm for huge chunks of the popluation (NY, MA).
I'd love to know some breakouts at more local levels.
Actually our county's obesity rate is a bit higher than the entire state and the US overall, despite being a community the League of America Wheelman (bike advocacy group) lists as one of.the more bike friendly communitis in the country. The obesity rate waa lower than the state and US average by around 5 percentage points until around 2010 and then grew to match the rest of the state and nation
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I think the first step needed for dealing with ones obesity is first to acknowledge your responsibility for your own body and take personal responsibility for it regardless of what circumstances got you there it is you that will have to work to achieve the goal you want of being fit or healthier.
I think trying to point towards society or circumstance or environment and externalize responsibility is, in the end, just going to serve as a roadblock to coming to terms with that personal responsibility. True or not I don't think its a productive thing to dwell on.12 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »I think the first step needed for dealing with ones obesity is first to acknowledge your responsibility for your own body and take personal responsibility for it regardless of what circumstances got you there it is you that will have to work to achieve the goal you want of being fit or healthier.
I think trying to point towards society or circumstance or environment and externalize responsibility is, in the end, just going to serve as a roadblock to coming to terms with that personal responsibility. True or not I don't think its a productive thing to dwell on.
For individuals,sure.
For communities as a whole, looking at contributing factors in an integral part of public health planning and prevention.
Identifying barriers to healthy lifestyle is a major component of tackling widespread obesity and changing population trends.
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Aaron_K123 wrote: »I think the first step needed for dealing with ones obesity is first to acknowledge your responsibility for your own body and take personal responsibility for it regardless of what circumstances got you there it is you that will have to work to achieve the goal you want of being fit or healthier.
I think trying to point towards society or circumstance or environment and externalize responsibility is, in the end, just going to serve as a roadblock to coming to terms with that personal responsibility. True or not I don't think its a productive thing to dwell on.
For individuals,sure.
For communities as a whole, looking at contributing factors in an integral part of public health planning and prevention.
Identifying barriers to healthy lifestyle is a major component of tackling widespread obesity and changing population trends.
See I don't really buy that.
The role of society, in my opinion, is to provide necessities and allow for opportunity. I, as an individual, could not really be expected to make my own shelter, make my own clothes, provide my own education, grow my own food etc etc etc and still be able to provide a benefit to our civilization. Society benefits individuals by having people responsible for individual aspects of what we all require to get by and individuals benefit society by providing one of those roles.
A society is failing if there are individuals who are not provided access to the basic necessities....one reason why health-care is such a major issue. To identify what those requirements are just think about what would happen if you did nothing and no one helped you. You would have no shelter, you would have no clothes, you would have no education, you would have no medicine and you would have no food....so you would be cold, naked, uneducated, starving and sick. Therefore if people within a community are suffering in those ways then sure...it might make sense to take a hard look at society because clearly the system is failing in some way. But obesity isn't that....obesity is the opposite of that. Obesity is a society that provides ample resources mixed with individuals who take more than they require. Obesity is an indivual consuming to much food. If there was someone who was swelteringly hot all the time because they kept wearing 15 layers of clothing would we look towards blaming society for providing access to so much clothing or maybe societal pressure to "look cool" by wearing lots of clothes or perhaps a lack of education leading to them not understanding that wearing lots of clothes makes them hot? Or would we just point out that its actually up to the individual to use a reasonable amount of clothing and its only societies role to ensure people have access to clothing. If that seems silly how exactly is that different from blaming society for someone being obese with regards to societies role of providing sources of food?
I do not have a lot of sympathy for those who suffer from obesity (that doesn't mean I look down on them by the way) nor do I think it makes sense to try to look for problems with society in order to deal with obesity. I think looking for problem in society is not going to help people who are obese become healthier more than it is going to just encourage excuses and externalizing blame.
If someday in the future I am starving to death something is probably wrong with society. If someday in the future I am obese its probably because I stopped taking good care of myself.10
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