How Do You Deal With the Toxic/Negative People in Your Live?
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Dealing with blood family is just one of life's serious challenges. Learn to deal, not run away.1
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When it comes to family members one can't exactly excavate them from our lives one can love them from a distance though. No one said every family will get on like a house on fire. Still try to work things out though. I find reasoning with the other party helps rather than not wanting to speak on the glaring awkwardness.0
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Dealing with blood family is just one of life's serious challenges. Learn to deal, not run away.
I'm guessing you haven't dealt with a truly toxic relative.
Why is it that when they are related people make excuses and tell you to stay, when if it was the same abuse from a friend or a SO they would say to get far away.6 -
There will always be people who are close to you who may be labeled as negative. So here's my take: it's sounds like you want to keep him in your life despite his bad behavior. Best way to get back at a narcissist is to prove what they say WRONG. Narcissist's have a very hard time when they have to admit it. And it kills them when they know people know they are wrong.
Thing here is that you have to lose the weight to prove it.
Personally I thrive on when people say I can't/won't achieve something I'm shooting for. But that's just how I'm wired.
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i dont. i dont allow people like that in my life.2
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lucypstacy wrote: »I know he won't change. Only I can change.
Partly true. People can and do change. We don't know if he ever will, but chances are he won't. All you can do is encourage him to change and remember that the chances are slim to none. You are right that you only have the power to make yourself change. All you can do is encourage him, change yourself and take care of yourself. Limit his access to you. I agree with many others that he should be aware if you aren't around for him to take advantage of you. I agree wholeheartedly with msf74. He has good insight and expresses things very well.
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My husband is very similar. He will eat at Hardee's in the morning and ask if I want anything than I'll say no he will say why? I'll explain its to many calories at one meal setting for me. He will laugh. It's small things like that but it feels like it's toxic. I need support right now. But I have learned you can get friends on here that can be your best support so that's my advice prove your dad wrong and find you a good support system on here2
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Many people have suggested saying no to him more. I agree with this and also have some suggestions for how to help you do that. I'm thinking since you spend so much time taking care of him that you have neglected yourself. So schedule all your doctor appointments for the year (annual physical, dentist, etc.), find a therapist, join a gym and/or club, sign up for classes... stop giving him all your extra time. It also sounds like you need your own support network, so re-connect with friends/family (that aren't toxic). This way, you have somewhere else to be when you tell him no, making it easier to say no in the first place.
Personally, since you don't want to cut him off completely, I think you should do the bare minimum. Groceries can be ordered online and delivered. Cleaning services can be scheduled. Cut back any extra time with him (no going out to dinner, random phone calls, etc.). As other people have suggested, give yourself permission to leave if he takes it too far.1 -
I cut them off. I don't have time for that in my life.2
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Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.2 -
Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?4 -
I can understand that you love your father and that you feel a responsibility to care for him but you must protect yourself and what your needs/wants are too!
If I were in your situation, I would write him a very long letter (yes, letter - because you can say what you need to and won't cry or get upset). I would explain in the letter, as non-confrontational as possible, that you are no longer willing to subject yourself to his negative comments, criticism or reprimands and lay down the rules going forward because your health is at risk. That his behavior makes you dread spending time with him and that you cringe when the phone rings and it's him. That you love him and want to spend time with him but you deserve respect, too! And tell him in the letter that if you are together and he starts up that you will leave the situation. And if he misses and appointment or has to call a taxi ... oh well - it was his choice. (Please remember ... he chooses to treat you like this)
He will test you on this ... so when he starts up ... simply say something like .. "I love you Dad, but I need to go - see you next week" AND DO IT. You may only have to do it once or twice. A bully will only be a bully as long as they can get away with it.
Lastly, if you have the means and ability to seek counseling for yourself try it! A good therapist can help you make sense of the situation and help you with coping skills and reinforcement.
You are a beautiful person and deserve a happy life!2 -
Whether or not your dad truly fits the clinical diagnostic criteria for NPD, his behavior as you have described it is manipulative and sadistic. He is highly unlikely to change--why would he, when he can get you to jump at a snap of the fingers? Setting boundaries is extremely difficult when you've been conditioned to be compliant all your life, but it is absolutely necessary to having healthy relationships. When the pain of doing the same things outweighs the pain of making changes, you'll set some boundaries in your life. Some helpful resources when you're ready are the books Boundaries (Townsend) and Will I Ever Be Good Enough (McBride) or Trapped in the Mirror (Golomb). You can also find a listing for therapists who specialize in working with children of narcissists at Karyl McBride's website, willieverbegoodenough dot com. I wish you the best, this is really hard stuff and it's a process.3
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
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Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
Have fun with that.
Eta- For me, life is too short for that BS. I'll find my "personal growth" elsewhere. *kanyeshrug*6 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
Seriously? What makes a family member so much more privileged that we need to keep them in our lives when they are abusive?10 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
The OP said her father was "diagnosed narcissist" - to me "professionally diagnosed" was implicit. While I agree that setting boundaries is a very useful skill, it's not likely to work with someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Her father has been emotionally abusive all her life and it is now getting worse as he becomes less able to care for himself and wants more help from her.8 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
Really?! So you're saying I should have stuck around when my emotionally unstable mother was using me as a punching bag, because it builds character?
I didn't need the abuse to learn strength, I survived the abuse because I was strong to begin with. Nobody has to put up with abuse from their families, and sometimes cutting my ties is the only answer. If you don't like how someone treats you then to walk away from that relationship, family or otherwise.13 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
The OP said her father was "diagnosed narcissist" - to me "professionally diagnosed" was implicit. While I agree that setting boundaries is a very useful skill, it's not likely to work with someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Her father has been emotionally abusive all her life and it is now getting worse as he becomes less able to care for himself and wants more help from her.
Setting boundaries works fine for someone with a disorder, the outcome just may not be warm and fuzzy.
From what I read, the OP had not taken this route with her father and I suggested it as the preferred next steps/approach. Starting to develop this skill is also very helpful to someone who has had manipulative people in their life. It's a useful skill they did not learn while growing up.2 -
kshama2001 wrote: »Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
The OP said her father was "diagnosed narcissist" - to me "professionally diagnosed" was implicit. While I agree that setting boundaries is a very useful skill, it's not likely to work with someone with Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Her father has been emotionally abusive all her life and it is now getting worse as he becomes less able to care for himself and wants more help from her.
Setting boundaries works fine for someone with a disorder, the outcome just may not be warm and fuzzy.
From what I read, the OP had not taken this route with her father and I suggested it as the preferred next steps/approach. Starting to develop this skill is also very helpful to someone who has had manipulative people in their life. It's a useful skill they did not learn while growing up.
Unfortunately if OP's father is a diagnosed pathological narcissist boundaries won't work. Narcissists and sociopaths do not acknowledge, nor respect, boundaries. It's a hallmark trait of both disorders. Boundaries do need to be set, but burden of reinforcing these boundaries will be 100% on the OP because there will not be any cooperation from her father. At some point one needs to decide if this is a relationship they are willing to carry the weight for or if it's time to move on.8 -
Lucy, I'm sorry you have to go through this, I know its not easy. All normal kids love their parents. For me it was about finding a way to keep being able to do that. I think your situation is going to take time and experimenting with ways of coping. He sounds like a crazy, but loveable old coot.
You've gotten a lot of advice here.
I've learned a lot reading your topic. Thank you for posting the question and I hope its helped you clarify things.0 -
Chef_Barbell wrote: »Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Yup and when that doesn't work?
Study up on setting boundaries, and consequences. Some things we just shouldn't run away from just because we don't like how someone acts. It's very easy to read articles and diagnose some with a personality disorder, then use it as an excuse for ending the relationship.
Dealing with our families gives us great personal growth challenges
LOL, no.
We're not talking about a jerk of a relative who just annoys us. We're talking about a manipulative, abusive person. Shared DNA doesn't give anyone the right to make others miserable. My purpose in life is not to suffer unnecessary personal growth challenges brought on by toxic family members. They can find someone else to enable their crappy behavior.9 -
Having to deal with blood relatives isn't saying you have to 'put up with them' and their *kitten*. It doesn't mean you must be their door mat.
I'm saying don't be so quick to cut ties and walk away, like we often do with ex friends and romantic interests. Learn to provide appropriate support and set boundaries, give them a chance to grow. Growth doesn't happen when you just cut things off.
Nonsense. At least with friends and romantic interests, we initially CHOSE to interact with them. There is no logical reason to put up with an A-hole merely because you have similar DNA.
If you want to grow something, get a plant.9 -
I stay friends with exs. I cut toxic family members off like mold on cheese.
If OP doesn't want to do that, she has her reasons, but she should on no way subject herself to his tantrums--she should immediately leave/hang up without saying a word or explaining herself. He knows what he's doing, and her having to explain it will only further subject her to his abuse and give him another reason to heap mockery on her. No letters, no explanation, no sweetness.
She's doesn't have to change him, only protect herself.7 -
I understand your dilemma because I have had similar situations in my family. In my case, it was with both my Sister and my Father. I cannot advise you but I understand not being able to walk away. Few people that have not lived through the exact same thing can understand why a person can't seem to walk away. I do. The guilt is overwhelming. If you are like me, you were trained from birth to act/behave a certain way. That way is always in the interest of the other person and sadly at your expense. It is hard to throw off that degree of training/manipulation. Again, people that have not experienced it cannot really understand the situation.
If I were to give you advice, I would tell you what worked for me. I began to limit my exposure to them. I thought Caroldavidson's advice was every good. Perhaps limit your time with your Father to one day a week or a few hours per week (if possible). It will be hard in the beginning because you are changing the rules. There will be substantial pushback and that pushback can result in greater abuse. If you are mentally prepared for it beforehand, it helps. I prepared by going to counseling. This can be expensive and is not an option for everyone. If counseling is not an option, I suggest two things: finding one or two really good friends that understand and can support you; and (2) cardio exercise. I find the exercising actually relaxes my brain and allows me to find some peace.
I wish you the best.
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A lot of people here are coming at this thread projecting their own family situations.
To the OP, was your father clinically diagnosed with NPD?
Have you tried learning how to properly set and enforce boundaries with your dad? If if it's likely to fail, it's still a personal skill worth developing.0 -
lucypstacy wrote: »Dad is abusive. I recognize that much, and he has been my entire life. He's a diagnosed narcissist, so part of his personality is to put people down. I sort of accept that, and try not to to let it get to me. There are times that's not as easy though.
I think it stems from his own weight. He's around 330lbs, but insists he's losing so much weight that doctors are worried. I do have issues, and I'm working slowly but surely to get my weight under control. He just makes it difficult.
And the end of the phone conversation is that he wants me to take him to a steak house tomorrow. The pattern continues.
Because of this, you can't take anything he says seriously.
I'd have been out of that situation as soon as I was able to leave home. No one gets to mess with my mental health like that.2 -
A lot of people here are coming at this thread projecting their own family situations.
To the OP, was your father clinically diagnosed with NPD?
Have you tried learning how to properly set and enforce boundaries with your dad? If if it's likely to fail, it's still a personal skill worth developing.
Did you read her posts?
You still haven't answered the question of WHY a person who is related by blood needs to be allowed to abuse you.5
This discussion has been closed.
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