Had my metabolism tested - interesting results and some questions

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  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    TimothyFish wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    OP, I've been in this situation a few times before, with the exception of having an RMR test. I was losing at a certain calorie level, albeit slowly, and then suddenly stopped losing. I weighed every morsel that could be measured with weight and otherwise measured liquids. I used an activity tracker as well, and yet weight loss just magically and instantly stalled. Everyone on the forums was convinced that I must be eating while I'm sleeping without knowing it or lying about weighing my food.

    As it turned out, I was in true plateaus. The worst of which lasted 6 months. After 2 months, I got really frustrated and was about to just plain give up. In compromise rather than give up, I gave up half the time (basically the every other day diet). I still logged everything, but was eating to satisfaction with no restrictions on alternating days. This ended up being about 10K calories on those days. On the diet days, I ate 500 calories per day max. Of course, this was a huge surplus and I should have immediately started gaining weight fast, right?! Nope, because I was in a true plateau. Day-to-day fluctuations became larger, but my weight still hovered around the same base number. After 6 weeks of that, I returned to a normal daily deficit because I figure I had proven I was in a true plateau and if I kept eating at a deficit, maybe there would be a "whoosh" some day. In fact, that is what happened. About 2 months after returning to a normal daily deficit, I finally ended up losing about 9 lbs. in a few days and it stayed off (i.e. not just normal daily fluctuations).

    It might be that you are truly in a plateau. If that is the case, then keep eating at a small deficit and trust that you will eventually experience a whoosh. Since you have a pretty good idea of what your RMR is and you track your food in the most accurate method possible, then you should be able to keep at a deficit even if you don't see the loss right away.

    10,000 in one day? I'm calling that nonsense. You could literally eat two gallons of ice cream and still not have eaten 10,000 calories. You could eat a restaurant meal six times and not have 10,000 calories. Even Tour de France riders who are on a mountain stage aren't consuming that many calories. It seems to me that you have just demonstrated that your problem was inaccurate calorie counting, not some "true plateau" while waiting for a "swoosh".

    Hey some of us did not become obese by only over eating by 100 calories a day. :)

    It is my view on 10,000 calorie days many of them will just ride out the backdoor.

    Nope. The body requires significantly more energy to digest the volume of food required to reach 10,000 calories. RMR is raised, body temp is raised, heart rate and blood sugar levels are raised, etc.

    Even the potential calories that ride out the back door on said days? Undigested food adds to your calorie burned number? Are you not forgetting CICO?

    Can you clarify what you mean here?

    Does undigested food potential calories that goes out the backdoor get computed into your CICO numbers?
  • SideSteel
    SideSteel Posts: 11,068 Member
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    I would recommend setting your diary to open/public.
  • rainbowbow
    rainbowbow Posts: 7,490 Member
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    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    TimothyFish wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    OP, I've been in this situation a few times before, with the exception of having an RMR test. I was losing at a certain calorie level, albeit slowly, and then suddenly stopped losing. I weighed every morsel that could be measured with weight and otherwise measured liquids. I used an activity tracker as well, and yet weight loss just magically and instantly stalled. Everyone on the forums was convinced that I must be eating while I'm sleeping without knowing it or lying about weighing my food.

    As it turned out, I was in true plateaus. The worst of which lasted 6 months. After 2 months, I got really frustrated and was about to just plain give up. In compromise rather than give up, I gave up half the time (basically the every other day diet). I still logged everything, but was eating to satisfaction with no restrictions on alternating days. This ended up being about 10K calories on those days. On the diet days, I ate 500 calories per day max. Of course, this was a huge surplus and I should have immediately started gaining weight fast, right?! Nope, because I was in a true plateau. Day-to-day fluctuations became larger, but my weight still hovered around the same base number. After 6 weeks of that, I returned to a normal daily deficit because I figure I had proven I was in a true plateau and if I kept eating at a deficit, maybe there would be a "whoosh" some day. In fact, that is what happened. About 2 months after returning to a normal daily deficit, I finally ended up losing about 9 lbs. in a few days and it stayed off (i.e. not just normal daily fluctuations).

    It might be that you are truly in a plateau. If that is the case, then keep eating at a small deficit and trust that you will eventually experience a whoosh. Since you have a pretty good idea of what your RMR is and you track your food in the most accurate method possible, then you should be able to keep at a deficit even if you don't see the loss right away.

    10,000 in one day? I'm calling that nonsense. You could literally eat two gallons of ice cream and still not have eaten 10,000 calories. You could eat a restaurant meal six times and not have 10,000 calories. Even Tour de France riders who are on a mountain stage aren't consuming that many calories. It seems to me that you have just demonstrated that your problem was inaccurate calorie counting, not some "true plateau" while waiting for a "swoosh".

    Hey some of us did not become obese by only over eating by 100 calories a day. :)

    It is my view on 10,000 calorie days many of them will just ride out the backdoor.

    Nope. The body requires significantly more energy to digest the volume of food required to reach 10,000 calories. RMR is raised, body temp is raised, heart rate and blood sugar levels are raised, etc.

    Even the potential calories that ride out the back door on said days? Undigested food adds to your calorie burned number? Are you not forgetting CICO?

    Can you clarify what you mean here?

    Does undigested food potential calories that goes out the backdoor get computed into your CICO numbers?

    Yep.
  • GaleHawkins
    GaleHawkins Posts: 8,160 Member
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    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    rainbowbow wrote: »
    GaleHawkins wrote: »
    TimothyFish wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    OP, I've been in this situation a few times before, with the exception of having an RMR test. I was losing at a certain calorie level, albeit slowly, and then suddenly stopped losing. I weighed every morsel that could be measured with weight and otherwise measured liquids. I used an activity tracker as well, and yet weight loss just magically and instantly stalled. Everyone on the forums was convinced that I must be eating while I'm sleeping without knowing it or lying about weighing my food.

    As it turned out, I was in true plateaus. The worst of which lasted 6 months. After 2 months, I got really frustrated and was about to just plain give up. In compromise rather than give up, I gave up half the time (basically the every other day diet). I still logged everything, but was eating to satisfaction with no restrictions on alternating days. This ended up being about 10K calories on those days. On the diet days, I ate 500 calories per day max. Of course, this was a huge surplus and I should have immediately started gaining weight fast, right?! Nope, because I was in a true plateau. Day-to-day fluctuations became larger, but my weight still hovered around the same base number. After 6 weeks of that, I returned to a normal daily deficit because I figure I had proven I was in a true plateau and if I kept eating at a deficit, maybe there would be a "whoosh" some day. In fact, that is what happened. About 2 months after returning to a normal daily deficit, I finally ended up losing about 9 lbs. in a few days and it stayed off (i.e. not just normal daily fluctuations).

    It might be that you are truly in a plateau. If that is the case, then keep eating at a small deficit and trust that you will eventually experience a whoosh. Since you have a pretty good idea of what your RMR is and you track your food in the most accurate method possible, then you should be able to keep at a deficit even if you don't see the loss right away.

    10,000 in one day? I'm calling that nonsense. You could literally eat two gallons of ice cream and still not have eaten 10,000 calories. You could eat a restaurant meal six times and not have 10,000 calories. Even Tour de France riders who are on a mountain stage aren't consuming that many calories. It seems to me that you have just demonstrated that your problem was inaccurate calorie counting, not some "true plateau" while waiting for a "swoosh".

    Hey some of us did not become obese by only over eating by 100 calories a day. :)

    It is my view on 10,000 calorie days many of them will just ride out the backdoor.

    Nope. The body requires significantly more energy to digest the volume of food required to reach 10,000 calories. RMR is raised, body temp is raised, heart rate and blood sugar levels are raised, etc.

    Even the potential calories that ride out the back door on said days? Undigested food adds to your calorie burned number? Are you not forgetting CICO?

    Can you clarify what you mean here?

    Does undigested food potential calories that goes out the backdoor get computed into your CICO numbers?

    Yep.

    Interesting. What is your method to compute the calories you need to subtract from CO for the passed undigested food?
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
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    TimothyFish wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    TimothyFish wrote: »
    midwesterner85 wrote: »
    OP, I've been in this situation a few times before, with the exception of having an RMR test. I was losing at a certain calorie level, albeit slowly, and then suddenly stopped losing. I weighed every morsel that could be measured with weight and otherwise measured liquids. I used an activity tracker as well, and yet weight loss just magically and instantly stalled. Everyone on the forums was convinced that I must be eating while I'm sleeping without knowing it or lying about weighing my food.

    As it turned out, I was in true plateaus. The worst of which lasted 6 months. After 2 months, I got really frustrated and was about to just plain give up. In compromise rather than give up, I gave up half the time (basically the every other day diet). I still logged everything, but was eating to satisfaction with no restrictions on alternating days. This ended up being about 10K calories on those days. On the diet days, I ate 500 calories per day max. Of course, this was a huge surplus and I should have immediately started gaining weight fast, right?! Nope, because I was in a true plateau. Day-to-day fluctuations became larger, but my weight still hovered around the same base number. After 6 weeks of that, I returned to a normal daily deficit because I figure I had proven I was in a true plateau and if I kept eating at a deficit, maybe there would be a "whoosh" some day. In fact, that is what happened. About 2 months after returning to a normal daily deficit, I finally ended up losing about 9 lbs. in a few days and it stayed off (i.e. not just normal daily fluctuations).

    It might be that you are truly in a plateau. If that is the case, then keep eating at a small deficit and trust that you will eventually experience a whoosh. Since you have a pretty good idea of what your RMR is and you track your food in the most accurate method possible, then you should be able to keep at a deficit even if you don't see the loss right away.

    10,000 in one day? I'm calling that nonsense. You could literally eat two gallons of ice cream and still not have eaten 10,000 calories. You could eat a restaurant meal six times and not have 10,000 calories. Even Tour de France riders who are on a mountain stage aren't consuming that many calories. It seems to me that you have just demonstrated that your problem was inaccurate calorie counting, not some "true plateau" while waiting for a "swoosh".

    On true cheat days, I've consumed way more than that even. It isn't as hard for some of us who have an insatiable appetite. Consider that a lot of restaurant pizzas are around 3K, more or less, just by themselves. And that is only 1 pizza. If I'm eating as much as I want, you think I'm only going to eat 1? No, I'll eat some cheese-sticks too and a cinnastix 'pizza' for dessert. There is half of the calories just for dinner.

    Actually, its more like 2,400 for a deep dish pizza. I can believe you might eat a whole pizza and some other stuff to go with it. What I don't believe is that you would eat that much more than three times over in one day. There's a limit to how much you can stuff yourself before you make yourself sick. If you aren't doing something to get your blood pumping, that food is just going to sit in your gut or come back out the way it went in.

    My favorite pizza (taco) from my favorite place is 2,864 calories for a large. That doesn't include the sauce that I then add on top, which gets it closer to 3K, depending on how much I actually use. Other meals during the day included donuts (yep, I eat them by the dozen if I am not restricting), cookies, potato chips for snacks, and then either burgers and fries and a shake, chinese, or pizza for lunch. Alternatively, a couple boxes of Fruity Pebbles and milk plus some donuts or cookies. It's rather easy to get to 10K per day. Like I said, I've done far more than that when actually having a cheat day. To do that on an every other day normal day is pretty easy.
  • CSARdiver
    CSARdiver Posts: 6,252 Member
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    MaineMom76 wrote: »
    After struggling with getting any progress with my weight loss, I decided to have it tested. I went to a facility that does it with the Korr machine - supposed to be highly reliable and accurate.

    Anyway, I had some pretty surprising results, but also have some questions, and I'm wondering if anyone here has any insight.

    My RMR was tested at 1800, and put me at the slightly higher than average mark. That surprised me! Especially being hypothyroid!

    I've been eating 1600 and not losing, which seemed odd. I'm 5'8", 233lbs., goal weight around 160. The woman who ran the test said that on the days I don't exercise, I should eat 1800 calories and on the days I do, I should eat 2100.

    Here are my questions:
    1) On the sheet she gave me, which has the printout from the machine, it says that maintenance calories for me is 1800-2340 and that weight loss would be at 1440-1800. But she said that I need to be eating either 1800 or 2100 to lose, depending on my exercise. I'm wondering why she would come up with different numbers than the machine suggested?

    2) If my RMR is 1800 and I was eating 1600 and it comes down to calories in vs. calories out, shouldn’t I still have been losing something at that level? Even if it wasn’t the healthiest for my body, etc. shouldn’t I have been losing weight because I was burning more than I was taking in? I thought at first, well, I was slowing my metabolism down, but it was measured at 1800 so it obviously wasn’t slowing down to under the amount I was eating - if that makes sense?

    Any insight?

    The Korr has been fully validated for medical diagnosis. As for the site validation and performance qualification you would have to contact the site, but they would have this data for you. We've been looking at the Korr to upgrade our existing gear as it takes up about a third of the space with statistically identical accuracy.

    Many overestimate the impact of hypothyroidism, but with the availability of RMR/REE devices this is showing ~5% decrease in untreated patients. I've been hypo for 17 years and this has had no discernible impact on my weight management.

    It is difficult to make any sort of assessment without understanding the rest of the variables. Bottom line however is that if you aren't losing you are not in a caloric deficit. Also keeping in mind that calorie estimation caries an inherent 20% margin of error.

    Need some additional details:

    1. How much left do you have to lose?
    2. What rate of loss do you have set on MFP?
    3. Are you eating back exercise calories?
    4. How are you estimating your exercise calories?
  • yskaldir
    yskaldir Posts: 202 Member
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    Not surprising at all, if you look at the Harris-Benedict or Mifflin-St. Jeor formula, BMR scales with body weight.
  • rouhnaz
    rouhnaz Posts: 62 Member
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    Someone might have said this, but there are phases when Weight just kinda doesn't move much. It can pass.

    Not sure if that's what's happening here in your case, but maybe it could be a temporary thing.

    I've read a few folks on here say they were stuck at a plateau for a month or two, and then started dropping weight again.

    Also, sleep! Sleep is super important.
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
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    VintageFeline wrote: »
    Can we not turn this into yet another Midwesterner bragging about eating 10'000 calories regularly and not gaining debate?

    I brought that up because I was eating at a deficit and not losing; then ate at a sharp surplus and didn't gain. In the end, my experienced proved to be a true plateau. The OP might also be experiencing a true plateau. If you don't want to talk about it, then don't argue with me. I know what happened in my case, and it sounds similar to what OP is experiencing with the lack of losses despite eating at a deficit.
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
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    OP - when/how often are you checking your weight? Are you taking measurements/progress pics, or just going by the scale? What is your exercise schedule like?
    A month and a half isn't a whole lot of time. If you aren't weighing yourself frequently or checking other indicators of progress, it's possible you have lost fat but it just isn't showing on the scale when you check in.

    I've recently started weighing daily and paying more attention to my trends, and on days after harder training my scale weight can be up several pounds from water retention. If I only weighed on those days it wouldn't be a good indication of my actual progress. After two rest days I could be down as much as 5 lbs from those heavier days. TOM plays a roll in scale weight too. (I'm hypo too btw)
    Are you on meds and had bloodwork done recently?
    With your stats on a consistent intake of 1600, you should be losing some fat. Perhaps take a look at how/when you're weighing. If your tracking really is spot on and your measurements/weight still aren't going down, unfortunately you likely need to cut more calories or get more activity in.
  • Allegi32
    Allegi32 Posts: 302 Member
    edited March 2017
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    vismal wrote: »
    MaineMom76 wrote: »

    Any insight?
    You seem fairly adamant about your calorie tracking so let's assume that's not the issue. Do you take cheat days? If yes how often? How often do you eat food you did not prepare yourself (restaurants, family meals, etc)? The last thing I can suggest is to open your diary. If you eat a lot of pre-packaged foods that could be an issue even if you track them. Many foods simply lie on the label, something to the effect of 1 package (100g) = 200 calories so you just eat the whole package and log it. Thing is, if you weighed the contents of the package it's more than the 100 grams it claims to be. Other foods are simply just wrong about their calorie counts. If that too isn't the problem then a 2 week diet break (eating maintenance) might be what's needed here.

    I wasn't taking cheat days - more so eating what I wanted but counting everything. So my macros and choices probably weren't the best, but I was staying within that calorie range.

    I am a recovering bulimic and a "recovered" anorexic, so being completely obsessive about my food is in my genes. I also know what not counting every little morsel does - it adds up. So to the people saying I'm not being honest, I don't know what else to say, other than if you knew me, you'd know I'm 100% honest.

    I took the past couple of weeks off out of frustration so there's nothing much in my diary about the very recent. But I can open my diary to show what my diary was prior to my "break." Last date of entry was March 19.

    So the question is....do I stick with the 1600? Do I increase like she told me to? Or do I lower more?

    I thought that by getting my RMR tested I would have more answers. It seems like i have more questions.

    I have a history of eating super strict and then saying "screw it" and then eating a whole pizza and then the next day I wake up 3 pounds lighter. I've been trying to avoid that pattern but now I'm just stuck without that nice whoosh LOL.
  • karahm78
    karahm78 Posts: 505 Member
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    I would ask for a re-test.... I see this machine is considered reputable, but what are the credentials for the technician you are working with?
  • karahm78
    karahm78 Posts: 505 Member
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    I also think that RMR she is quoting you is high, you sure that isn't TDEE? Here is a link for a study showing mean RMR of 1550 for obese women between 20-30 years. 1800 would be significantly more than that?

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/528122

    The relationship between resting metabolic rate and different parameters of body size was investigated among 28 female volunteers in the age group of 20--30 years. The resting metabolic rate of the subjects was determined indirectly by measuring the oxygen consumption in a closed circuit, in which the oxygen concentration was stabilised. The fat percentage of the body was determined by densitometry. The population was divided into two groups: the obese, with an average fat percentage of 33.6 and the normal-weight with an average fat percentage of 20.4. Mean values for the resting metabolic rate were 1550 kcal/24 h (6.488 MJ/24 h) for the obese and 1421 kcal/24 h (5.948 MJ/24 h) for the normal-weight group. The resting metabolic rate per kg body weight was lower in the obese than in the normal-weight persons. However, expressed per kg fat-free body mass, energy expenditure under resting conditions in the obese was higher than in the normal-weight. No single body parameter seems to be suitable in the explantation of RMR in women with substantially different fat content. The best prediction of resting metabolic rate in this population of obese and normal-weight women is obtained when both fat-free mass and fat mass are used as independent variables in a linear regression equation.

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