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Is There a Metabolic Advantage to a Ketogenic Diet?
LucasWilland
Posts: 68 Member
Bottom line: all the metabolic ward studies have consistently shown the same thing: there is no advantage for fat loss on a Ketogenic diet compared to one that is higher in carbohydrates.
Takeaway points: If you are on a ketogenic diet and truly enjoy it and it is working great for you, then by all means continue to do it, but don't think that you can scarf down as many grass- fed steaks as you want without there being consequences, in spite of low insulin or not.
Takeaway point number two: If the next time you are at an Italian restaurant and your best friend says that you can't have pasta because it will make you fat, proceed to:
a. slap the person silly
b. Show them this article and kindly explain to them what insulin actually does.
Since you are a good person, I predict that you will take the second option, but if your friend still doesn't listen, proceed to shrug and say, "oh, well, more yummy stuff for me."
http://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
Takeaway points: If you are on a ketogenic diet and truly enjoy it and it is working great for you, then by all means continue to do it, but don't think that you can scarf down as many grass- fed steaks as you want without there being consequences, in spite of low insulin or not.
Takeaway point number two: If the next time you are at an Italian restaurant and your best friend says that you can't have pasta because it will make you fat, proceed to:
a. slap the person silly
b. Show them this article and kindly explain to them what insulin actually does.
Since you are a good person, I predict that you will take the second option, but if your friend still doesn't listen, proceed to shrug and say, "oh, well, more yummy stuff for me."
http://shreddedbyscience.com/ketogenic-diets-actually-work-study-review/
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Replies
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There's a simple reason these studies are often contradictory or inconclusive. There is a single nucleotide pair (rs1801282) that determines whether you more efficiently lose weight on a low carb or low fat diet. If you have the low-carb variant, keto will work better for you, and if not then a low-fat diet will work better.
Personally, I have the low-fat variant, so have had only bad experiences with keto/CKD, but on 40g fat/day I can get linear weight loss with ease.8 -
8 months in ketosis, 28 kg (61 pounds) down, regained insulin resistance, excellent cholesterol levels, feeling better than ever before. It works for me, however, I count calories, log accurately and run 6 days a week. Do what works for you in the long-term and forget the comparisons!15
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Man, talk about showing up wearing the same dress:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10534745/low-vs-high-carbs-the-kevin-hall-study#latest
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Google "Kevin hall keto diet study" and you'll get some fun results.
"In defense of the insulin model of obesity"
"Carbz is stil evl"
"Kevin Hall is a big poopyhead"
Or my favorite: "You can have mah gainz when you pry them out of my cold, sticky, buttered fingers"
It's as much a religious argument as a scientific one.3 -
so basically in people with no medical condition low carb/keto = moderate protein/moderate carb/moderate fat...
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What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight. I have a cheat day once a week and get back onto it the next day only because I weight train and I don't want my base calories to drop below 1400 when shredding. On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body. But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay3
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Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.10
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BrendaMHirst wrote: »What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight.
This implies that sugar spikes are an issue for everyone who eats carbs (or carbs beyond keto level) and in particular that people eating more than keto levels of carbs don't feel full. Neither is my experience. The ONLY time that "sugar spikes" have been a problem for me is when I was not paying attention to calories and consistently undersleeping (I still struggle with the latter). My body would want to wake up and crave quick energy, so I'd crave stuff like plain bagels or whatever was around and eat it and wake up but then crash. I think why I'd quickly end up wanting to eat more sooner was more the issue with lack of sleep than carbs, although I know it's more of an issue for someone with IR if they eat an unbalanced diet.
However, eating a balanced diet and carbs with fiber tend to prevent sugar spikes anyway, even for those for whom it's an issue--this means protein and fat with carbs (as well as carbs with fiber).
Struggling with hunger has never really been an issue of mine, and having played around with a variety of ways of eating (under 100 g carbs to higher carb when trying WFPB for a bit), I haven't found that hunger varies much. What affects my hunger and tends to make me overeat is if I don't pay attention, eat mindlessly, and graze instead of eating regular meals. When I do this I tend to want food throughout the day (not really hunger, but still) and easily overeat. When I have a sensible schedule of regular meals I only think about food at meal time.
My impression is that some people do find that eating more carbs makes them more likely to be hungry, but it's certainly not everyone. Also, for a lot of people the difference between pre and after low carb is that they cut out a lot of foods that they considered hyperpalatable and hard to control consumption of (and which are often not that filling), but which are also as much fat as carbs. Or they cut out lots of things that were just sugar. Or they increased protein and (ironically) vegetables. A lot of times the people reporting this big difference hadn't been eating what would normally be considered a balanced healthful and satiating diet when eating more carbs, even though it's recommended to do so, of course.On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body.
Why on earth would this be good? (I also don't think struggling to hit 1400 is sustainable over time.)But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay
Why can't you mix fat and carbs? If concerned about "sugar spikes" adding some fat (and protein too) to that bagel (like maybe some cream cheese and lox) would be preferable. IMO, a balanced meal is usually carbs, fat, and protein, like whole grain pasta with lean meat and lots of vegetables cooked with some olive oil, and maybe with some olives and pine nuts or added to the sauce and/or a sprinkle of cheese (feta and goat cheese are good, but lots of options). I love to start the morning with an omelet with lots of vegetables and a little feta plus some low fat cottage cheese (or maybe even some, gasp!, fruit) on the side. That also has fat and carbs.BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
This is not true. No traditional diets seems to be ketogenic. A very few (like the Inuit) would be for you and me, but the people who ate it were not in ketosis -- their bodies seemed to have adapted to the low level of carbs. The blue zone diets are moderate to high carb.
All this aside, of course I think keto can be a good choice if you eat better on it and are happy on it, and make an effort to eat a healthful diet, but it's not the natural diet for humans (whatever that would mean) or superior to a diet with more carbs.8 -
BrendaMHirst wrote: »What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight. I have a cheat day once a week and get back onto it the next day only because I weight train and I don't want my base calories to drop below 1400 when shredding. On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body. But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay
Curious - if you love keto so much, why do you need a cheat meal? If it's such a good diet/way of eating, why take one meal to stop eating like that?13 -
BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
nope, grains have been around for thousands of years, and population has not had any influence on grain/carb production ...
you can eat ketogenic and gain weight...it still comes down to calories in vs calories out7 -
BrendaMHirst wrote: »What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight. I have a cheat day once a week and get back onto it the next day only because I weight train and I don't want my base calories to drop below 1400 when shredding. On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body. But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay
wrong, protein causes insulin to spike almost as much as carbs do. So if you are Keto, which is by nature high protein, you are getting a similar insulin spike.4 -
BrendaMHirst wrote: »What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight. I have a cheat day once a week and get back onto it the next day only because I weight train and I don't want my base calories to drop below 1400 when shredding. On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body. But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay
wrong, protein causes insulin to spike almost as much as carbs do. So if you are Keto, which is by nature high protein, you are getting a similar insulin spike.
You've clearly not paid attention to all of the people swearing by a 5/20/75 macro split. Ugh...just, how is that even possible without literally eating butter wrapped in cheese?8 -
Man, talk about showing up wearing the same dress:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10534745/low-vs-high-carbs-the-kevin-hall-study#latest
Good think you guys didn't look: http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/10436946/are-all-calories-equal-part-2-kevins-halls-new-study#latest1 -
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26278052
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27385608/2 -
BrendaMHirst wrote: »What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight. I have a cheat day once a week and get back onto it the next day only because I weight train and I don't want my base calories to drop below 1400 when shredding. On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body. But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay
It is best to mix your carbs with a fat. If you are not overeating carbs and eat them with a fat (think potato with a pat of butter) there will be no significant blood sugar spike because the fat slows the digestion of the carbs. If keto works for you so be it, but I have tried keto and never felt full, ever. It doesn't work for everybody. Insulin helps you feel full it is a side effect, so if you introduce insulin with protein and carbs but eat them with a fat you will feel full.3 -
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/research-review/ketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-have-no-metabolic-advantage-over-nonketogenic-low-carbohydrate-diets-research-review.html
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26278052
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/16685046/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/27385608/
so you have no proof?
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Great to see a Shredded by Science link in here 2
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8 months in ketosis, 28 kg (61 pounds) down, regained insulin resistance, excellent cholesterol levels, feeling better than ever before. It works for me, however, I count calories, log accurately and run 6 days a week. Do what works for you in the long-term and forget the comparisons!
Same for me (80lbs) and I ate carbs. It was glorious. Funny how being OVERWEIGHT can cause all of the above, and then LOSING it can correct it.15 -
BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
When exactly was this supposedly happening? Y'see, I'm an archaeologist, and have a fairly good grasp of human evolution and evolution of the human diet. I'm at a loss to identify a time period where the human diet would have been consistently low carb enough to qualify as ketogenic, particularly the super high fat/super low carb version we usually see advocated here.16 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
When exactly was this supposedly happening? Y'see, I'm an archaeologist, and have a fairly good grasp of human evolution and evolution of the human diet. I'm at a loss to identify a time period where the human diet would have been consistently low carb enough to qualify as ketogenic, particularly the super high fat/super low carb version we usually see advocated here.
The first nations of Canada mostly ate lower carb, depending on season, especially on the plains and in the north. I imagine much of northern Europe was fairly low carb on average. Keto at time and moderate carb at others.
I imagine it is quite different closer to the equator.1 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
When exactly was this supposedly happening? Y'see, I'm an archaeologist, and have a fairly good grasp of human evolution and evolution of the human diet. I'm at a loss to identify a time period where the human diet would have been consistently low carb enough to qualify as ketogenic, particularly the super high fat/super low carb version we usually see advocated here.
The first nations of Canada mostly ate lower carb, depending on season, especially on the plains and in the north. I imagine much of northern Europe was fairly low carb on average. Keto at time and moderate carb at others.
I imagine it is quite different closer to the equator.
If we look at Neanderthal diet for Ice Age Europe, then actually no: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161027094135.htm - far more likely moderate carb, which is not keto. Even at times when plants may have been scarcer, they were more high protein/low fat: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160329132245.htm (and Neanderthals may have specifically evolved to deal with that), which again is not the high fat/low carb most doing keto here adhere to.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
When exactly was this supposedly happening? Y'see, I'm an archaeologist, and have a fairly good grasp of human evolution and evolution of the human diet. I'm at a loss to identify a time period where the human diet would have been consistently low carb enough to qualify as ketogenic, particularly the super high fat/super low carb version we usually see advocated here.
The first nations of Canada mostly ate lower carb, depending on season, especially on the plains and in the north. I imagine much of northern Europe was fairly low carb on average. Keto at time and moderate carb at others.
I imagine it is quite different closer to the equator.
If we look at Neanderthal diet for Ice Age Europe, then actually no: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161027094135.htm - far more likely moderate carb, which is not keto. Even at times when plants may have been scarcer, they were more high protein/low fat: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160329132245.htm (and Neanderthals may have specifically evolved to deal with that), which again is not the high fat/low carb most doing keto here adhere to.
Interesting... I do doubt that their diet was high protein though. Large animals are high in fat. Bison and such all have a LOT of fat in them, and people ate them when they were at their fattiest for ease of storage and to maintain good health - from what I understand.
Even in they ate exclusively meat, which most peoples did not do, they would probably have a fat/protein split of 80/20 up to maybe 65/35 which is getting into high protein. Keto'er who aim for zero carb, and eat a carnivorous diet of just meat, tend to get splits around 75/25 to 70/30, give or take a few percentages.
What do they think people/neanderthals were eating on the mammoth steppe in terms of plant matter? I'm curious. It looks a lot like Mongolia - grasses and dry. I can't imagine there was a lot to eat there. I doubt the Mongols ate a lot of plants too. Sort of like the first nations plains people here. There are some berries an roots they would eat but calorie wise it was a minority amount.
Just to clarify where I am coming from, I consider moderate carbs to be over 150g per day, and up to 45-50% of your total calories.0 -
I don't like getting into it because many people have to have it their way only their way. You can find links to support any argument available.
Is There a Metabolic Advantage to a Ketogenic Diet?
For obese people with metabolic syndrome, there is a distinct advantage. It helps lower and stabilize insulin the body. I proved this to myself with blood tests and going off and on keto diets. With tests at the doctor to confirm it. After losing about 40 pounds my kidney doctor said I don't know what you're doing but keep doing it. I was still 60 pounds overweight.8 months in ketosis, 28 kg (61 pounds) down, regained insulin resistance, excellent cholesterol levels, feeling better than ever before. It works for me, however, I count calories, log accurately and run 6 days a week. Do what works for you in the long-term and forget the comparisons!
Same for me (80lbs) and I ate carbs. It was glorious. Funny how being OVERWEIGHT can cause all of the above, and then LOSING it can correct it.
You look great by the way!
This is true too. If you are severely obese and you lose 80 pounds your numbers will dramatically improve. It doesn't matter how you do it. All diets work to some extent.
All diets fail as well. As soon as you stop and go back to beer and cheeseburgers you gain it all back.
The key is to find something where you lose weight and get to your ideal weight and are happy and satisfied while doing it. You can't be sacrificing. It has to be sustainable.
Would you rather weigh your food and count your calories or simply learn to eat when you're hungry and not eat when you're not hungry? Oh, and stay away from certain foods for the rest of your life.
Cheers
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
When exactly was this supposedly happening? Y'see, I'm an archaeologist, and have a fairly good grasp of human evolution and evolution of the human diet. I'm at a loss to identify a time period where the human diet would have been consistently low carb enough to qualify as ketogenic, particularly the super high fat/super low carb version we usually see advocated here.
The first nations of Canada mostly ate lower carb, depending on season, especially on the plains and in the north. I imagine much of northern Europe was fairly low carb on average. Keto at time and moderate carb at others.
I imagine it is quite different closer to the equator.
If we look at Neanderthal diet for Ice Age Europe, then actually no: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161027094135.htm - far more likely moderate carb, which is not keto. Even at times when plants may have been scarcer, they were more high protein/low fat: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160329132245.htm (and Neanderthals may have specifically evolved to deal with that), which again is not the high fat/low carb most doing keto here adhere to.
Interesting... I do doubt that their diet was high protein though. Large animals are high in fat. Bison and such all have a LOT of fat in them, and people ate them when they were at their fattiest for ease of storage and to maintain good health - from what I understand.
Even in they ate exclusively meat, which most peoples did not do, they would probably have a fat/protein split of 80/20 up to maybe 65/35 which is getting into high protein. Keto'er who aim for zero carb, and eat a carnivorous diet of just meat, tend to get splits around 75/25 to 70/30, give or take a few percentages.
What do they think people/neanderthals were eating on the mammoth steppe in terms of plant matter? I'm curious. It looks a lot like Mongolia - grasses and dry. I can't imagine there was a lot to eat there. I doubt the Mongols ate a lot of plants too. Sort of like the first nations plains people here. There are some berries an roots they would eat but calorie wise it was a minority amount.
Just to clarify where I am coming from, I consider moderate carbs to be over 150g per day, and up to 45-50% of your total calories.
Well, the current science is disagreeing with you sorry, for Neanderthals anyway. I would have to delve deeper to answer your question re what plants they were eating, which I unfortunately don't have time to do right now. perhaps another day
And obviously the definition of 'low carb' comes into this. My carb intake is generally between 100-160g a day (though it can be higher depending on my overall calorie intake and also what kind of activity I'm doing, it's not often over 200g though), and I don't consider myself low carb (I'd put myself in the moderate range). Did our Palaeolithic ancestors eat lower carb than what most people do today? Yep, almost undoubtably, especially in colder climates. But not as low as keto levels, which is what this discussion is about, and the statement I originally quoted and took issue with (that previously people 'naturally ate in a ketogenic way').
Human diet has historically been a tricky area for archaeologists, because plant remains generally don't survive in the archaeological record (other than under very specific circumstances). Hence the emphasis on animal remains, and the (erroneous) assumptions about heavily meat-based diets. But advances in terms of the types of analysis that can be undertaken using modern techniques are changing that, and the evidence is showing a much higher plant consumption than previously thought. Not high carb, but definitely not keto.2 -
I don't like getting into it because many people have to have it their way only their way. You can find links to support any argument available.
Is There a Metabolic Advantage to a Ketogenic Diet?
For obese people with metabolic syndrome, there is a distinct advantage. It helps lower and stabilize insulin the body. I proved this to myself with blood tests and going off and on keto diets. With tests at the doctor to confirm it. After losing about 40 pounds my kidney doctor said I don't know what you're doing but keep doing it. I was still 60 pounds overweight.8 months in ketosis, 28 kg (61 pounds) down, regained insulin resistance, excellent cholesterol levels, feeling better than ever before. It works for me, however, I count calories, log accurately and run 6 days a week. Do what works for you in the long-term and forget the comparisons!
Same for me (80lbs) and I ate carbs. It was glorious. Funny how being OVERWEIGHT can cause all of the above, and then LOSING it can correct it.
You look great by the way!
This is true too. If you are severely obese and you lose 80 pounds your numbers will dramatically improve. It doesn't matter how you do it. All diets work to some extent.
All diets fail as well. As soon as you stop and go back to beer and cheeseburgers you gain it all back.
The key is to find something where you lose weight and get to your ideal weight and are happy and satisfied while doing it. You can't be sacrificing. It has to be sustainable.
Would you rather weigh your food and count your calories or simply learn to eat when you're hungry and not eat when you're not hungry? Oh, and stay away from certain foods for the rest of your life.
Cheers
I choose option two without staying away from certain foods for the rest of my life.8 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »BrendaMHirst wrote: »Only reason carbs are so popular now is due to the fact the population is so big we would not be able to feed everyone if it was not for carbohydrates. back many years ago we naturally ate in a ketogenic way due to grains being scarce but now we eat for pleasure not nutrition and thats why we tend to over eat.
When exactly was this supposedly happening? Y'see, I'm an archaeologist, and have a fairly good grasp of human evolution and evolution of the human diet. I'm at a loss to identify a time period where the human diet would have been consistently low carb enough to qualify as ketogenic, particularly the super high fat/super low carb version we usually see advocated here.
The first nations of Canada mostly ate lower carb, depending on season, especially on the plains and in the north. I imagine much of northern Europe was fairly low carb on average. Keto at time and moderate carb at others.
I imagine it is quite different closer to the equator.
If we look at Neanderthal diet for Ice Age Europe, then actually no: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/10/161027094135.htm - far more likely moderate carb, which is not keto. Even at times when plants may have been scarcer, they were more high protein/low fat: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/03/160329132245.htm (and Neanderthals may have specifically evolved to deal with that), which again is not the high fat/low carb most doing keto here adhere to.
Interesting... I do doubt that their diet was high protein though. Large animals are high in fat. Bison and such all have a LOT of fat in them, and people ate them when they were at their fattiest for ease of storage and to maintain good health - from what I understand.
Even in they ate exclusively meat, which most peoples did not do, they would probably have a fat/protein split of 80/20 up to maybe 65/35 which is getting into high protein. Keto'er who aim for zero carb, and eat a carnivorous diet of just meat, tend to get splits around 75/25 to 70/30, give or take a few percentages.
What do they think people/neanderthals were eating on the mammoth steppe in terms of plant matter? I'm curious. It looks a lot like Mongolia - grasses and dry. I can't imagine there was a lot to eat there. I doubt the Mongols ate a lot of plants too. Sort of like the first nations plains people here. There are some berries an roots they would eat but calorie wise it was a minority amount.
Just to clarify where I am coming from, I consider moderate carbs to be over 150g per day, and up to 45-50% of your total calories.
Well, the current science is disagreeing with you sorry, for Neanderthals anyway. I would have to delve deeper to answer your question re what plants they were eating, which I unfortunately don't have time to do right now. perhaps another day
And obviously the definition of 'low carb' comes into this. My carb intake is generally between 100-160g a day (though it can be higher depending on my overall calorie intake and also what kind of activity I'm doing, it's not often over 200g though), and I don't consider myself low carb (I'd put myself in the moderate range). Did our Palaeolithic ancestors eat lower carb than what most people do today? Yep, almost undoubtably, especially in colder climates. But not as low as keto levels, which is what this discussion is about, and the statement I originally quoted and took issue with (that previously people 'naturally ate in a ketogenic way').
Human diet has historically been a tricky area for archaeologists, because plant remains generally don't survive in the archaeological record (other than under very specific circumstances). Hence the emphasis on animal remains, and the (erroneous) assumptions about heavily meat-based diets. But advances in terms of the types of analysis that can be undertaken using modern techniques are changing that, and the evidence is showing a much higher plant consumption than previously thought. Not high carb, but definitely not keto.
This IS interesting. I wonder what the neanderthals did to get so high protein... Avoided large game or just ate muscle meat maybe? Not fatty seafood?
Raw or rare meat tends to have a higher degree of carbs in it. So does very fresh meat. Perhaps that affected it?
I don't think many ancient cultures or peoples ate ketogenic. The ones I listed - maybe. It's debateable if those cultures (like the Inuit) were in ketosis or not. I do agree that they were probably much lower carb than people eat today. I think many food guides still recommend over 50% of calories from carbs. My guess, only a guess, is that ancient northern people ate low carb to moderate carb.
By most diet definitions, you do eat low carb. Moderately low carb. Low carb is usually considered below 100 to 150g of carbs per day. Ketosis (very low carb) is usually considered to be under 50g per day but some go higher with that label if they time carbs around exercise or they are very active. Those with metabolic issues tend to eat under 50g; I'm usually 20-30g.
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8 months in ketosis, 28 kg (61 pounds) down, regained insulin resistance, excellent cholesterol levels, feeling better than ever before. It works for me, however, I count calories, log accurately and run 6 days a week. Do what works for you in the long-term and forget the comparisons!
Same for me (80lbs) and I ate carbs. It was glorious. Funny how being OVERWEIGHT can cause all of the above, and then LOSING it can correct it.
Happy you found what works for you! You had PCOS also? Was keto recommended to you by a Dr to help with your insulin resistance & PCOS symptoms?1 -
Keto agrees with me & I don't miss carbs. I will eat this way for life. I don't feel restricted and I do eat carbs, just in the form of fruit & veg. Running allows me to eat more carbs & stay in ketosis. As I said before, do what works for you and don't judge others!3
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Gallowmere1984 wrote: »BrendaMHirst wrote: »What I love about keto and I think this is why people lose weight so much on it is because you don't get sugar spikes, therefore you eat what you can eat and feel full, if you overeat of course you're going to not drop the weight. I have a cheat day once a week and get back onto it the next day only because I weight train and I don't want my base calories to drop below 1400 when shredding. On keto I struggle to hit this 1400 and can easily go on 1000 calories and thats where the weightloss comes in and nd reason why I track my calories to ensure I'm eating enough to energise my body. But high carb diets work to so long as you don't mix fat and carbs together you are okay
wrong, protein causes insulin to spike almost as much as carbs do. So if you are Keto, which is by nature high protein, you are getting a similar insulin spike.
You've clearly not paid attention to all of the people swearing by a 5/20/75 macro split. Ugh...just, how is that even possible without literally eating butter wrapped in cheese?
Pretty sure I've seen people proclaiming they do this and how sating and wonderful it is. How it keeps them going for many hours of fat burning blissful glory.
That's my split. Getting more protein is hard because I don't love to eat a lot of meat... Don't think I ever called it "blissful fat burning glory" though. LOL 1
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