ACV - Any results ?
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AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.4 -
WinoGelato wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
But why give credit to a product that has no impact, rather than the thing that does, a calorie deficit that the Individual created?
Calorie deficits may be too abstract for some people. In order to lose weight, some people need to feel invested in their journey, and taking something may help them feel that way in a way that just cognitively knowing that they have achieved a calorie deficit does not.
Another thing that we have not discussed- an absence of peer reviewed evidence does not mean that something does not have an effect. In fact, I'd argue that unless there is peer reviewed evidence against it, and there is anecdotal evidence dating back to the 16th century, then we can't rule it out as having a positive effect.0 -
AliceNotInChains wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
But why give credit to a product that has no impact, rather than the thing that does, a calorie deficit that the Individual created?
Calorie deficits may be too abstract for some people. In order to lose weight, some people need to feel invested in their journey, and taking something may help them feel that way in a way that just cognitively knowing that they have achieved a calorie deficit does not.
Another thing that we have not discussed- an absence of peer reviewed evidence does not mean that something does not have an effect. In fact, I'd argue that unless there is peer reviewed evidence against it, and there is anecdotal evidence dating back to the 16th century, then we can't rule it out as having a positive effect.
Calorie deficits are the LEAST ABSTRACT thing about the process.
And that bolded bit...That's basically religion (not to mock people of faith). Good luck telling people to pray to acv to get rid of their excess body weight. I don't usually get personal with these things but that is some really horrible, deluded logic.7 -
You should do a search on the forums to help you find all the ACV threads with a resounding "NO". And recipe suggestions using ACV.1
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WinoGelato wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
But why give credit to a product that has no impact, rather than the thing that does, a calorie deficit that the Individual created?
Because people want to believe that a gimmick works. Therefore it is the product, not the part that they've been getting right.2 -
AliceNotInChains wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
But why give credit to a product that has no impact, rather than the thing that does, a calorie deficit that the Individual created?
Calorie deficits may be too abstract for some people. In order to lose weight, some people need to feel invested in their journey, and taking something may help them feel that way in a way that just cognitively knowing that they have achieved a calorie deficit does not.
Another thing that we have not discussed- an absence of peer reviewed evidence does not mean that something does not have an effect. In fact, I'd argue that unless there is peer reviewed evidence against it, and there is anecdotal evidence dating back to the 16th century, then we can't rule it out as having a positive effect.
What is abstract about a calorie deficit? It is the ONLY requirement for weight loss.
The burden of scientific proof is on proving something works, not on proving that it doesn't.0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.
I'm not talking about buying an expensive weight loss supplement. I'm talking about buying a $2 bottle of vinegar. Not the fancy vinegar. $2. And I'm not saying "hey, this has no effect, but you should try it." I'm saying that we really don't know, and if you think it may, then feel free to try it and find out. There is an arrogance in people who seem to think that if science hasn't proved it right, then it must be wrong. If that were the case, researchers wouldn't have a job. If the research hasn't been done, then our answer can't be "no" because we don't know that. We literally don't have evidence for or against.0 -
AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.
I'm not talking about buying an expensive weight loss supplement. I'm talking about buying a $2 bottle of vinegar. Not the fancy vinegar. $2. And I'm not saying "hey, this has no effect, but you should try it." I'm saying that we really don't know, and if you think it may, then feel free to try it and find out. There is an arrogance in people who seem to think that if science hasn't proved it right, then it must be wrong. If that were the case, researchers wouldn't have a job. If the research hasn't been done, then our answer can't be "no" because we don't know that. We literally don't have evidence for or against.
If something as simple as "does ingesting this cause weight loss" hasn't been proven affirmative since the 1600s, then it won't be. I mean, it is so incredibly, insanely simple to test. It's not finding the cure for cancer.0 -
I think the main problem with people believing the placebo rather than the reality, is that they then spread the bulldust and continue to perpetrate the myth that you need ACV or whatnot to lose weight. The story spreads, more people buy into it, people begin to hear it everywhere, the lie gets entrenched and and the collective knowledge of humankind goes down.5
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WinoGelato wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »WinoGelato wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
But why give credit to a product that has no impact, rather than the thing that does, a calorie deficit that the Individual created?
Calorie deficits may be too abstract for some people. In order to lose weight, some people need to feel invested in their journey, and taking something may help them feel that way in a way that just cognitively knowing that they have achieved a calorie deficit does not.
Another thing that we have not discussed- an absence of peer reviewed evidence does not mean that something does not have an effect. In fact, I'd argue that unless there is peer reviewed evidence against it, and there is anecdotal evidence dating back to the 16th century, then we can't rule it out as having a positive effect.
What is abstract about a calorie deficit? It is the ONLY requirement for weight loss.
The burden of scientific proof is on proving something works, not on proving that it doesn't.
Actually, proving that something doesn't work is the hallmark of something being a science rather than a religion. It is called falsification.0 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.
I'm not talking about buying an expensive weight loss supplement. I'm talking about buying a $2 bottle of vinegar. Not the fancy vinegar. $2. And I'm not saying "hey, this has no effect, but you should try it." I'm saying that we really don't know, and if you think it may, then feel free to try it and find out. There is an arrogance in people who seem to think that if science hasn't proved it right, then it must be wrong. If that were the case, researchers wouldn't have a job. If the research hasn't been done, then our answer can't be "no" because we don't know that. We literally don't have evidence for or against.
If something as simple as "does ingesting this cause weight loss" hasn't been proven affirmative since the 1600s, then it won't be. I mean, it is so incredibly, insanely simple to test. It's not finding the cure for cancer.
Its really not that simple. Anyone who has dealt with the NIH or the IRB knows that. And there have been case studies that show that it has some modicum of an effect on weightloss. (http://time.com/4648436/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/ unless The Times is "fake news") but you have to have a greater consensus, which means more studies, and every study has its problems, and in the end, this becomes an expensive and time consuming process... for vinegar.0 -
Alatariel75 wrote: »I think the main problem with people believing the placebo rather than the reality, is that they then spread the bulldust and continue to perpetrate the myth that you need ACV or whatnot to lose weight. The story spreads, more people buy into it, people begin to hear it everywhere, the lie gets entrenched and and the collective knowledge of humankind goes down.
Not to mention that when some people attribute success to something that has no impact, and then others try but do not have similar results (since they didn't luck into the calorie deficit), then they may give up altogether.
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AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.
I'm not talking about buying an expensive weight loss supplement. I'm talking about buying a $2 bottle of vinegar. Not the fancy vinegar. $2. And I'm not saying "hey, this has no effect, but you should try it." I'm saying that we really don't know, and if you think it may, then feel free to try it and find out. There is an arrogance in people who seem to think that if science hasn't proved it right, then it must be wrong. If that were the case, researchers wouldn't have a job. If the research hasn't been done, then our answer can't be "no" because we don't know that. We literally don't have evidence for or against.
If something as simple as "does ingesting this cause weight loss" hasn't been proven affirmative since the 1600s, then it won't be. I mean, it is so incredibly, insanely simple to test. It's not finding the cure for cancer.
Its really not that simple. Anyone who has dealt with the NIH or the IRB knows that. And there have been case studies that show that it has some modicum of an effect on weightloss. (http://time.com/4648436/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/ unless The Times is "fake news") but you have to have a greater consensus, which means more studies, and every study has its problems, and in the end, this becomes an expensive and time consuming process... for vinegar.
Considering the devastating effects of obesity, how taxing it is on the healthcare system, and how it disproportionately affects lower-income populations, if something so cheap and simple had the slightest bit of promise to it, it would be researched like crazy.1 -
PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.
I'm not talking about buying an expensive weight loss supplement. I'm talking about buying a $2 bottle of vinegar. Not the fancy vinegar. $2. And I'm not saying "hey, this has no effect, but you should try it." I'm saying that we really don't know, and if you think it may, then feel free to try it and find out. There is an arrogance in people who seem to think that if science hasn't proved it right, then it must be wrong. If that were the case, researchers wouldn't have a job. If the research hasn't been done, then our answer can't be "no" because we don't know that. We literally don't have evidence for or against.
If something as simple as "does ingesting this cause weight loss" hasn't been proven affirmative since the 1600s, then it won't be. I mean, it is so incredibly, insanely simple to test. It's not finding the cure for cancer.
Its really not that simple. Anyone who has dealt with the NIH or the IRB knows that. And there have been case studies that show that it has some modicum of an effect on weightloss. (http://time.com/4648436/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/ unless The Times is "fake news") but you have to have a greater consensus, which means more studies, and every study has its problems, and in the end, this becomes an expensive and time consuming process... for vinegar.
Considering the devastating effects of obesity, how taxing it is on the healthcare system, and how it disproportionately affects lower-income populations, if something so cheap and simple had the slightest bit of promise to it, it would be researched like crazy.
It's not sexy, so no one wants to research it, nor can anyone make money off of it, so there isn't funding to research it.0 -
AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »PaulaWallaDingDong wrote: »AliceNotInChains wrote: »The argument is that acv leads to weight loss. You have introduced a reason why it may not be the product itself, but the psychological processes behind it. My point is that just because something doesn't have a physiological affect on weightloss, doesn't mean it doesn't have an effect. It may be a psychological one. If the product is something as cheap and harmless as apple cider vinegar, then the process variables don't matter, imo. If someone sticks to their health plan because they aren't going to drink a couple of tablespoons of apple cider vinegar for nothing, then more power to them. How is that any different than any other means of motivation to achieve their results?
Why tell people to go ahead and lie to themselves about how weight loss works? Doing something gross every day that contributes nothing to the outcome isn't motivation. And how motivating can it really be if you KNOW it does nothing? This is exactly why weight loss "supplement" companies can advertise that their products work with proper diet and exercise, though the products do literally NOTHING. They're making money off of lies. It should be illegal, but its not. Until it is, it's doing everyone a disservice to encourage people to do that to themselves voluntarily.
I'm not talking about buying an expensive weight loss supplement. I'm talking about buying a $2 bottle of vinegar. Not the fancy vinegar. $2. And I'm not saying "hey, this has no effect, but you should try it." I'm saying that we really don't know, and if you think it may, then feel free to try it and find out. There is an arrogance in people who seem to think that if science hasn't proved it right, then it must be wrong. If that were the case, researchers wouldn't have a job. If the research hasn't been done, then our answer can't be "no" because we don't know that. We literally don't have evidence for or against.
If something as simple as "does ingesting this cause weight loss" hasn't been proven affirmative since the 1600s, then it won't be. I mean, it is so incredibly, insanely simple to test. It's not finding the cure for cancer.
Its really not that simple. Anyone who has dealt with the NIH or the IRB knows that. And there have been case studies that show that it has some modicum of an effect on weightloss. (http://time.com/4648436/apple-cider-vinegar-weight-loss/ unless The Times is "fake news") but you have to have a greater consensus, which means more studies, and every study has its problems, and in the end, this becomes an expensive and time consuming process... for vinegar.
Considering the devastating effects of obesity, how taxing it is on the healthcare system, and how it disproportionately affects lower-income populations, if something so cheap and simple had the slightest bit of promise to it, it would be researched like crazy.
It's not sexy, so no one wants to research it, nor can anyone make money off of it, so there isn't funding to research it.
Neither is tracking calories.
And if something could free up healthcare dollars and put people who have been living on disability due to the effects of obesity back into the workforce and pad the pockets of government officials, it would get done.3 -
It didn't help me lose weight, but I noticed that I sweat a LOT more when I drink it, and it makes my bladder work overtime. I put one tablespoon of ACV (I use the one with the "mother"... supposedly it works better), add a teaspoon of honey and a drink it during the day. Drink it from a straw, the acid can ruin your teeth.
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most of these people parrot what they think is true.. they haven't tried it..2
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elisa123gal wrote: »most of these people parrot what they think is true.. they haven't tried it..
Hell, I haven't tried swallowing tapeworm eggs even though it definitely works, and you get to eat tons! Why swallow something unpleasant that's been shown time and time again to make no appreciable difference?5 -
elisa123gal wrote: »most of these people parrot what they think is true.. they haven't tried it..
I've tried it! I gave it a solid go too because i truly believed the hype i read about it. The only thing it served to do for me is put me off of vinegar forever, it's the most disgusting tasting potion i have ever got sucked into trying
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I have used it to successfully get rid of warts (one on finger and other on big toe) - few years ago. I was skeptical when someone told me it would work, but after all OTC treatments didn't work, I figured why not try (especially since the next step would be to have them professionally removed). To my surprise, it actually worked. Took a few days of treatment, but after day 4 the finger wart "peeled" off and the toe took about 7 days. Neither have come back.0
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