Who watched "fat sick and nearly dead"?
Replies
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One thing to remember about the majority of documentaries... they are made to support a single belief or argument. Very few are going to show both sides of the story or will include evidence or information against what they want to show. So you are only seeing the "evidence" that they want you to see and nothing else. So don't take what they are saying as the ultimate "truth".11
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He lost weight because he ate less calories, not because of juice.6
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I liked the first one, a juice fast can get results on health problems, which can be a huge benefit. I also agree with the criticisms that the approach doesn't change your non-fasting diet.
Watching #2 now, glad to see the focus is on healthy regular eating and not juice fasting.
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Going without food for an extended period can make people feel lightheaded and "floaty", which they mistake for "the toxins going out of my body" or whatever.5
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janejellyroll wrote: »GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Not eating isn't going to eliminate "toxins" from your body. Fasting for a few days isn't going to be harmful for the average person, but there's no evidence it is helpful either. And yes, if you lose weight due to a fast, you will gain it back quickly when you begin eating again.
IIRC, "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead 2" is about the same guy trying to lose the weight that he regained.
That's not quite right. The guy who did Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead was Joe Cross. In it he helped another man, Phil, to do a juice fast and get much healthier. In Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead 2 we find out that Phil regained the weight as he went back to old habits and was also an emotional eater. Joe has stayed very fit and healthy and still does juice fasts.
Thank you for the clarification. At the end of the day, losing weight through juicing doesn't seem as if it is that sustainable.
The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance. Once you've done that, you can introduce healthy foods. Although he did the detox for about 60 days, other people did it for a week or 10 days and found it made a huge difference. There are some people who juice but also eat raw vegetables and fruit - so not a complete fast but only eating raw healthy foods along with lots of green juice - which can be recommended if you have chronic health problems or want a less extreme approach. If I remember rightly, in the second film Joe says he eats some processed foods now, and he's able to do that without negative consequences because he cleared his whole system out. Juice rebooting is something I'm still considering as I'd like to detox, although it's apparently not recommended for people with M.E. and Fibromyalgia. I have a friend with M.E. who tried it and was in chronic pain by day 4. I guess it's up to eat individual, and if I was doing it I'd likely eat food as well.8 -
gamerbabe14 wrote: »He lost weight because he ate less calories, not because of juice.
True but he said the juice fast rebooted his system and cleared out years of toxins that made him feel awful. His main focus in doing a juice fast wasn't to lose weight - it was to deal with his health problems, namely chronic Urticaria. The weight loss was kind of a side effect. He went from feeling very unhealthy and having pain from the Urticaria to feeling energetic, healthy and no longer requiring medication.10 -
GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Not eating isn't going to eliminate "toxins" from your body. Fasting for a few days isn't going to be harmful for the average person, but there's no evidence it is helpful either. And yes, if you lose weight due to a fast, you will gain it back quickly when you begin eating again.
IIRC, "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead 2" is about the same guy trying to lose the weight that he regained.
That's not quite right. The guy who did Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead was Joe Cross. In it he helped another man, Phil, to do a juice fast and get much healthier. In Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead 2 we find out that Phil regained the weight as he went back to old habits and was also an emotional eater. Joe has stayed very fit and healthy and still does juice fasts.
Thank you for the clarification. At the end of the day, losing weight through juicing doesn't seem as if it is that sustainable.
The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance. Once you've done that, you can introduce healthy foods. Although he did the detox for about 60 days, other people did it for a week or 10 days and found it made a huge difference. There are some people who juice but also eat raw vegetables and fruit - so not a complete fast but only eating raw healthy foods along with lots of green juice - which can be recommended if you have chronic health problems or want a less extreme approach. If I remember rightly, in the second film Joe says he eats some processed foods now, and he's able to do that without negative consequences because he cleared his whole system out. Juice rebooting is something I'm still considering as I'd like to detox, although it's apparently not recommended for people with M.E. and Fibromyalgia. I have a friend with M.E. who tried it and was in chronic pain by day 4. I guess it's up to eat individual, and if I was doing it I'd likely eat food as well.
What about your system needs rebooting, what sort of crap is supposedly built up, where in that juice are the essential fats and proteins your boy needs?13 -
Fasting isn't new and can be effective if done correctly. There is no such thing as "detoxing". It's a made up analogy by "holistic" people and sites who attribute pseudoscience as their proof. And because liquid diets are nothing more than a pretty extreme form of calorie restriction, weight regain is usually pretty high in percentage.I just watched it on Netflix and it was very interesting!!! I'm just genuinely curious- what do you all think of fasting for a few days, does it really help to detoxify or are you doing more harm than good? And won't you just end up gaining that weight back once you go back to your "regular" diet routine?
Other than that it was really eye opening how big of an issue obesity is and how others see themselves, very interesting!
People get overweight/obese for one main reason..............they eat more than they burn off.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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You're not "clearing" crap out of your body nor "detoxing" it. You're just supplying higher nutrient food. And the weight loss came for eating less calories than he burned.GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Not eating isn't going to eliminate "toxins" from your body. Fasting for a few days isn't going to be harmful for the average person, but there's no evidence it is helpful either. And yes, if you lose weight due to a fast, you will gain it back quickly when you begin eating again.
IIRC, "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead 2" is about the same guy trying to lose the weight that he regained.
That's not quite right. The guy who did Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead was Joe Cross. In it he helped another man, Phil, to do a juice fast and get much healthier. In Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead 2 we find out that Phil regained the weight as he went back to old habits and was also an emotional eater. Joe has stayed very fit and healthy and still does juice fasts.
Thank you for the clarification. At the end of the day, losing weight through juicing doesn't seem as if it is that sustainable.
The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance. Once you've done that, you can introduce healthy foods. Although he did the detox for about 60 days, other people did it for a week or 10 days and found it made a huge difference. There are some people who juice but also eat raw vegetables and fruit - so not a complete fast but only eating raw healthy foods along with lots of green juice - which can be recommended if you have chronic health problems or want a less extreme approach. If I remember rightly, in the second film Joe says he eats some processed foods now, and he's able to do that without negative consequences because he cleared his whole system out. Juice rebooting is something I'm still considering as I'd like to detox, although it's apparently not recommended for people with M.E. and Fibromyalgia. I have a friend with M.E. who tried it and was in chronic pain by day 4. I guess it's up to eat individual, and if I was doing it I'd likely eat food as well.
All this is is pseudoscience and sales propaganda to sell juicers and books.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Uh no, weight loss was DIRECTLY because the juice was way less calories than what he was eating. That's basic CICO. And weight is the NUMBER ONE risk factor for health issues. Lowering weight automatically reduces risk for anyone.GirlPanda03 wrote: »gamerbabe14 wrote: »He lost weight because he ate less calories, not because of juice.
True but he said the juice fast rebooted his system and cleared out years of toxins that made him feel awful. His main focus in doing a juice fast wasn't to lose weight - it was to deal with his health problems, namely chronic Urticaria. The weight loss was kind of a side effect. He went from feeling very unhealthy and having pain from the Urticaria to feeling energetic, healthy and no longer requiring medication.
The body doesn't store "toxins". Toxins are poisonous. If you have a poison in your body, you go to the hospital. You don't drink some juice concoction and hope you don't die from getting poison in your system.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Not eating isn't going to eliminate "toxins" from your body. Fasting for a few days isn't going to be harmful for the average person, but there's no evidence it is helpful either. And yes, if you lose weight due to a fast, you will gain it back quickly when you begin eating again.
IIRC, "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead 2" is about the same guy trying to lose the weight that he regained.
That's not quite right. The guy who did Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead was Joe Cross. In it he helped another man, Phil, to do a juice fast and get much healthier. In Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead 2 we find out that Phil regained the weight as he went back to old habits and was also an emotional eater. Joe has stayed very fit and healthy and still does juice fasts.
Thank you for the clarification. At the end of the day, losing weight through juicing doesn't seem as if it is that sustainable.
The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance. Once you've done that, you can introduce healthy foods. Although he did the detox for about 60 days, other people did it for a week or 10 days and found it made a huge difference. There are some people who juice but also eat raw vegetables and fruit - so not a complete fast but only eating raw healthy foods along with lots of green juice - which can be recommended if you have chronic health problems or want a less extreme approach. If I remember rightly, in the second film Joe says he eats some processed foods now, and he's able to do that without negative consequences because he cleared his whole system out. Juice rebooting is something I'm still considering as I'd like to detox, although it's apparently not recommended for people with M.E. and Fibromyalgia. I have a friend with M.E. who tried it and was in chronic pain by day 4. I guess it's up to eat individual, and if I was doing it I'd likely eat food as well.
IMHO it's just a 'magic feather' that people can grasp and follow. The body detoxes just as well with all the solid food diets. That said, Dumbo needed the feather in the beginning, till his confidence improved. The problem with magic feathers is making the transition to not using them.14 -
GirlPanda03 wrote: »The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance....
How exactly does one "reboot" their system? We're not computers. And did he specifically name exactly what the "crap" is that builds up in your system for years? If that were the case, it would mean that your liver and kidneys have failed and you'd need dialysis. This question has been asked of every detox advocate on MFP ever, and not a single one has ever been able to name even ONE specific "toxin" that a detox has been scientifically shown to remove from your body.
Additionally, as stevencloser referred to above, where are the essential fats and protein your body needs for good nutrition? Both are essential for many functions in the body and a diet without them is FAR from "healthy".
I know you probably won't bother to read them, but for anybody else reading the thread and considering whether or not they should do a detox/cleanse, here are two very informative science/evidence-based articles which clearly show that detoxing/cleansing/rebooting is a bunch of worthless BS:
https://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/the-detox-delusion/
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-detox-scam-how-to-spot-it-and-how-to-avoid-it/6 -
So I watched the first one yesterday, and I'm watching the second one now. They're actually really interesting. The nutritionist says flat out that a 60-day juice cleanse is extreme and is definitely not recommended by any stretch of the imagination, which the host agreed with.
I think the point is to go cold-turkey on things like sugars, refined carbs, fast food, and junk. The juicing itself is secondary. The main thing is to brute force your way through cravings and the will-power-leeching habits of the first couple weeks of any new WOE. Which is easier if you're only drinking a melange of fruits and veg.
The second one (so far) is less about extreme measures and more about maintaining healthy, sustainable habits - which one of the subjects of the first film was able to do with some success, and one of the subjects was not. And they go into why that is - importance of community, predominantly.
Juice cleanse - not necessary, definitely needs doctor supervision, very extreme
Getting most of your nutrition from fruits and veg, and to a lesser extent animal products, and cutting out junk foods and processed foods - pretty good idea5 -
GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »GirlPanda03 wrote: »janejellyroll wrote: »Not eating isn't going to eliminate "toxins" from your body. Fasting for a few days isn't going to be harmful for the average person, but there's no evidence it is helpful either. And yes, if you lose weight due to a fast, you will gain it back quickly when you begin eating again.
IIRC, "Fat, Sick, and Nearly Dead 2" is about the same guy trying to lose the weight that he regained.
That's not quite right. The guy who did Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead was Joe Cross. In it he helped another man, Phil, to do a juice fast and get much healthier. In Fat, Sick and Nearly Dead 2 we find out that Phil regained the weight as he went back to old habits and was also an emotional eater. Joe has stayed very fit and healthy and still does juice fasts.
Thank you for the clarification. At the end of the day, losing weight through juicing doesn't seem as if it is that sustainable.
The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance. Once you've done that, you can introduce healthy foods. Although he did the detox for about 60 days, other people did it for a week or 10 days and found it made a huge difference. ...........
If I remember rightly, in the second film Joe says he eats some processed foods now, and he's able to do that without negative consequences because he cleared his whole system out.
I have lived for over half a century and never gone on a juice fast nor rebooted my system nor detoxed 50 years of crap nor cleared whole system out in any other way - and, amazingly, my body has never needed to regain health or balance.
I can even eat some processed foods without any negative consequences
I must be a very special snowflake not to need any of that nonsense oops,help .
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Avocado_Angel wrote: »I watched 1 & 2 after seeing this post yesterday and it does look like there is something in it. A lot of people who were on loads of meds for various health conditions were able to completely get off their meds, their conditions had vastly improved one guy beat diabetes as well I thought that was pretty amazing.
Unsure if I could actually juice for 60 days but I might give it a try some time
You might wanna go read the Success Stories forum here for a while first.
Many people have used MFP, often but not always in conjunction with changes in exercise activity, to lose weight in a sensible way, get off most or all their meds, and - bonus - do it by learning to eat in healthy ways they can continue for the rest of their lives, to stay healthy & off meds permanently.
While my story is less dramatic, I did avoid the statins my doc had been threatening, bring my triglycerides/cholesterol from very high to solidly normal, and take my blood pressure from pre-hypertensive to low-normal, simply by losing 60 pounds . . . without a single day of juice fast.
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Avocado_Angel wrote: »
Unfortunately for some people the only way to get them to be healthier or think about thier health is through gimmicky stuff like this
Sadly this is true - "eat fewer calories than you burn" just seems too simple for many people. It's like they feel the need to punish themselves, or test their resolve in order to lose weight. Unfortunately this usually leads to a week or two of extreme focus and some success followed by a month of "I can't take it anymore" and returning to old habits. Until the next book/documentary/website shows up.6 -
RedfootDaddy wrote: »So I watched the first one yesterday, and I'm watching the second one now. They're actually really interesting. The nutritionist says flat out that a 60-day juice cleanse is extreme and is definitely not recommended by any stretch of the imagination, which the host agreed with.
I think the point is to go cold-turkey on things like sugars, refined carbs, fast food, and junk. The juicing itself is secondary. The main thing is to brute force your way through cravings and the will-power-leeching habits of the first couple weeks of any new WOE. Which is easier if you're only drinking a melange of fruits and veg.
The second one (so far) is less about extreme measures and more about maintaining healthy, sustainable habits - which one of the subjects of the first film was able to do with some success, and one of the subjects was not. And they go into why that is - importance of community, predominantly.
Juice cleanse - not necessary, definitely needs doctor supervision, very extreme
Getting most of your nutrition from fruits and veg, and to a lesser extent animal products, and cutting out junk foods and processed foods - pretty good idea
If the goal is to lose weight there's no need to go cold turkey on anything, unless it's a food type you seriously can't control your intake of. But it's not a good idea to demonize sugar/carbs/fast food as pure junk. It all can be fit into a diet that allows you to continue to enjoy food you like while losing weight.3 -
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In learning more about the benefits of having a diet loaded with fruits, nuts, weeds, and seeds, I caught wind of Joe Cross' documentary. I thought that it was a pretty neat view of how juicing can help ones health. What really impressed me is that what he promotes matches some things I learned about juicing from a doctor who specializes in alternative medicine.
In my teens during the late '90's I would drive my grandmother to health seminars hosted by the doctor. However, being the typical know-it-all teen that I was, I didn't think much of her teaching. As a more sensible(-ish) adult, I found that what the doctor taught was also covered in the documentary. I wonder what other gems went over my head back then.
*shrug* Spilled milk. Anyway, I drank the punch and bought a juicer.
I'm not going to weigh in on juice fasting. Still, if anything, juicing as a part of a normal diet can be an easy way to get larger portions of fruit and veggie nutrients into your diet. In my experience, drinking those nutrients is often much easier than eating them. For example, I don't like eating beets, but I can hide their flavor in a drink using a few slices of fruit. Another benefit I've found is that juicing is much cheaper than buying the bottled stuff from the local grocer -- that is, if you buy them often. I paid about $100 a couple of years ago for my juicer. Considering that I have probably consumed my weight in veggies a few times over since then, I've made up the $100 with the money I've saved.
Give it a shot.5
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