Who watched "fat sick and nearly dead"?

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  • crazyycatlady1
    crazyycatlady1 Posts: 292 Member
    edited April 2017
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    RedfootDaddy wrote: »
    So I watched the first one yesterday, and I'm watching the second one now. They're actually really interesting. The nutritionist says flat out that a 60-day juice cleanse is extreme and is definitely not recommended by any stretch of the imagination, which the host agreed with.

    I think the point is to go cold-turkey on things like sugars, refined carbs, fast food, and junk. The juicing itself is secondary. The main thing is to brute force your way through cravings and the will-power-leeching habits of the first couple weeks of any new WOE. Which is easier if you're only drinking a melange of fruits and veg.

    The second one (so far) is less about extreme measures and more about maintaining healthy, sustainable habits - which one of the subjects of the first film was able to do with some success, and one of the subjects was not. And they go into why that is - importance of community, predominantly.

    Juice cleanse - not necessary, definitely needs doctor supervision, very extreme
    Getting most of your nutrition from fruits and veg, and to a lesser extent animal products, and cutting out junk foods and processed foods - pretty good idea

    Why do you think this is necessary thought? There's nothing wrong with sugar, refined carbs, fast food etc, as long as you're fitting it into your calorie goals and are including them as part of a well balanced, nutrient dense diet.

    I'm 4 years into successful maintenance, (which makes me a statistical freak of nature :p ), and I eat a mostly whole foods, plant based diet, (I average 800g-1,000g of veg/fruit every day). I also eat fast food 1-2 times a week, eat foods with added sugar, eat chili-cheese Fritos every.single.day etc. I'm in fantastic health by every health marker/blood work test my dr. uses. If I had tried cutting out all the things I enjoyed eating, because of arbitrarily labeling some foods 'bad' and some foods 'good/clean' I would have failed at this whole thing long term.
  • CoryGray1
    CoryGray1 Posts: 18 Member
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    Another new documentary released this past march very similar to that is: What the Health
  • AnnPT77
    AnnPT77 Posts: 32,067 Member
    edited April 2017
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    RedfootDaddy wrote: »
    So I watched the first one yesterday, and I'm watching the second one now. They're actually really interesting. The nutritionist says flat out that a 60-day juice cleanse is extreme and is definitely not recommended by any stretch of the imagination, which the host agreed with.

    I think the point is to go cold-turkey on things like sugars, refined carbs, fast food, and junk. The juicing itself is secondary. The main thing is to brute force your way through cravings and the will-power-leeching habits of the first couple weeks of any new WOE. Which is easier if you're only drinking a melange of fruits and veg.

    The second one (so far) is less about extreme measures and more about maintaining healthy, sustainable habits - which one of the subjects of the first film was able to do with some success, and one of the subjects was not. And they go into why that is - importance of community, predominantly.

    Juice cleanse - not necessary, definitely needs doctor supervision, very extreme
    Getting most of your nutrition from fruits and veg, and to a lesser extent animal products, and cutting out junk foods and processed foods - pretty good idea

    To the bolded:

    So the idea is that it's easier to do something difficult and probably unnecessary (*) if one does something extreme (that risks under-nutrition) at the same time?

    OK, not really the way human psychology and the human body typically work . . . but whatever, I guess.

    (* By "probably unnecessary", I don't mean to imply that if someone Is eating junk, they should keep eating junk.

    What I mean is that I found it pretty manageable to gradually improve my eating by logging, reviewing the log, and tweaking the timing and macro composition of my eating to improve nutrition and get rid of dysfunctional cravings.

    Now, in weight maintenance, I'm eating less than I used to, but with better nutrition and more satisfaction. Hard to beat that!)
  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
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    J72FIT wrote: »
    paperpudding wrote: »
    The juicing is to reboot your system

    I stopped reading after this...

    I probably should have done this, instead my blood pressure is through the roof.
  • MikeyM1982
    MikeyM1982 Posts: 47 Member
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    If you are still not sold on FSAND, then go on YouTube and watch 'Super Juice Me'. I think the results speak for themselves.
  • domeofstars
    domeofstars Posts: 480 Member
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    What it highlighted for me was the power of healthy eating. I was a junk food junkie for a long time, I've found since i've started eating more vegetables, fruit and ate more healthily i feel so much better physically- my energy levels are so much better. That being said, i would never have a juice fast. I've just increased my intake of healthy foods and decreased the not so healthy ones.

    We're all individuals, and what works for one person may not work for another. If fasting and juicing works for you, then great. Do it. If not, then walk the other way.
  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
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    stevencloser wrote: »
    Avocado_Angel wrote: »
    I watched 1 & 2 after seeing this post yesterday and it does look like there is something in it. A lot of people who were on loads of meds for various health conditions were able to completely get off their meds, their conditions had vastly improved one guy beat diabetes as well I thought that was pretty amazing.

    Unsure if I could actually juice for 60 days but I might give it a try some time

    You don't beat diabetes, you deal with it.
    People have managed to reverse Type 2 diabates, haven't they? Especially where it's mild and caught fairly early.

    I don't know that juice fasts are the way to do it though.
  • L1zardQueen
    L1zardQueen Posts: 8,754 Member
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    Avocado_Angel wrote: »
    I watched 1 & 2 after seeing this post yesterday and it does look like there is something in it. A lot of people who were on loads of meds for various health conditions were able to completely get off their meds, their conditions had vastly improved one guy beat diabetes as well I thought that was pretty amazing.

    Unsure if I could actually juice for 60 days but I might give it a try some time

    You don't beat diabetes, you deal with it.
    People have managed to reverse Type 2 diabates, haven't they? Especially where it's mild and caught fairly early.

    I don't know that juice fasts are the way to do it though.

    Reverse diabetes but not cure it. That's the point. It's still there lurking.
  • dfwesq
    dfwesq Posts: 592 Member
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    Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    Avocado_Angel wrote: »
    I watched 1 & 2 after seeing this post yesterday and it does look like there is something in it. A lot of people who were on loads of meds for various health conditions were able to completely get off their meds, their conditions had vastly improved one guy beat diabetes as well I thought that was pretty amazing.

    Unsure if I could actually juice for 60 days but I might give it a try some time

    You don't beat diabetes, you deal with it.
    People have managed to reverse Type 2 diabates, haven't they? Especially where it's mild and caught fairly early.

    I don't know that juice fasts are the way to do it though.

    Reverse diabetes but not cure it. That's the point. It's still there lurking.
    I guess it depends on what is meant by "cure". It's something the medical community debates.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2768219/
  • L1zardQueen
    L1zardQueen Posts: 8,754 Member
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    Avocado_Angel wrote: »
    I watched 1 & 2 after seeing this post yesterday and it does look like there is something in it. A lot of people who were on loads of meds for various health conditions were able to completely get off their meds, their conditions had vastly improved one guy beat diabetes as well I thought that was pretty amazing.

    Unsure if I could actually juice for 60 days but I might give it a try some time

    You don't beat diabetes, you deal with it.
    People have managed to reverse Type 2 diabates, haven't they? Especially where it's mild and caught fairly early.

    I don't know that juice fasts are the way to do it though.

    Reverse diabetes but not cure it. That's the point. It's still there lurking.
    I guess it depends on what is meant by "cure". It's something the medical community debates.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2768219/

    Prolonged remission. That's my take from the link. Doesn't sound like cure to me.

    But whatever, you can't let your guard down. Keep the weight down and exercise everyday, diabetes will be in prolonged remission. Or cure for you! Yay!
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,389 MFP Moderator
    edited April 2017
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    dfwesq wrote: »
    Tiny_Dancer_in_Pink wrote: »
    dfwesq wrote: »
    stevencloser wrote: »
    Avocado_Angel wrote: »
    I watched 1 & 2 after seeing this post yesterday and it does look like there is something in it. A lot of people who were on loads of meds for various health conditions were able to completely get off their meds, their conditions had vastly improved one guy beat diabetes as well I thought that was pretty amazing.

    Unsure if I could actually juice for 60 days but I might give it a try some time

    You don't beat diabetes, you deal with it.
    People have managed to reverse Type 2 diabates, haven't they? Especially where it's mild and caught fairly early.

    I don't know that juice fasts are the way to do it though.

    Reverse diabetes but not cure it. That's the point. It's still there lurking.
    I guess it depends on what is meant by "cure". It's something the medical community debates.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2768219/

    It's more like remission than cure.

    Edit: http://www.joslin.org/info/will_diabetes_go_away.html
    joslin wrote:
    Patients diagnosed with type 2 diabetes may discover that if they are overweight at diagnosis and then lose weight and begin regular physical activity, their blood glucose returns to normal. Does this mean diabetes has disappeared? No. The development of type 2 diabetes is a gradual process, too, in which the body becomes unable to produce enough insulin for its needs and/or the body's cells become resistant to insulin's effects. Gradually the patient goes from having "impaired glucose tolerance" — a decreased but still adequate ability to convert food into energy — to having "diabetes."

    If the patient were to gain weight back or scale back on their physical activity program, high blood glucose would return. If they were to overeat at a meal, their blood glucose probably would continue to go higher than someone without diabetes. Also, the decreased insulin production and/or increased insulin resistance that led to the initial diabetes diagnosis will gradually intensify over the years and during periods of stress. In time, the patient who could maintain normal blood glucose with diet and exercise alone may discover that he or she needs to add oral diabetes medications — or perhaps even insulin injections — to keep blood glucose in a healthy range.
  • lemurcat12
    lemurcat12 Posts: 30,886 Member
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    RedfootDaddy wrote: »
    So I watched the first one yesterday, and I'm watching the second one now. They're actually really interesting. The nutritionist says flat out that a 60-day juice cleanse is extreme and is definitely not recommended by any stretch of the imagination, which the host agreed with.

    I think the point is to go cold-turkey on things like sugars, refined carbs, fast food, and junk. The juicing itself is secondary. The main thing is to brute force your way through cravings and the will-power-leeching habits of the first couple weeks of any new WOE. Which is easier if you're only drinking a melange of fruits and veg.

    The second one (so far) is less about extreme measures and more about maintaining healthy, sustainable habits - which one of the subjects of the first film was able to do with some success, and one of the subjects was not. And they go into why that is - importance of community, predominantly.

    Juice cleanse - not necessary, definitely needs doctor supervision, very extreme
    Getting most of your nutrition from fruits and veg, and to a lesser extent animal products, and cutting out junk foods and processed foods - pretty good idea

    Thanks for this. It's the first thing that made me think the movies might be okay and even worth watching, and not spreading ridiculous ideas. I pretty much agree with what you say here.

    One thing that annoys me about what one hears about it, at least -- and we see it on this thread -- is the idea that "detoxing" is necessary or a thing. If what they mean is breaking bad habits or dealing with cravings, I still think there are better ways to do it. For example, I fundamentally changed my diet around 30 (I had given up fast food before because I just lost my taste for it as an adult, and it was never a significant part of my diet anyway). I went from relying a lot on going out (good restaurants, but still), ordering in, making quick things like packaged rice and beans (I'd add vegetables), eating muffins or bagels for breakfast to really learning to cook and making all of my own food, with vegetables a huge part of the total (I became a green market junky). What I found was I tended to crave what I ate. Because I changed my diet my tastes changed and I started craving different things. I suspect this sort of thing is actually more effective than a cold turkey drink only juice (which is not sustainable over time) period. I bet a lot of people afterwards go back to old ways. And I personally find that when I merely cut something out I can miss it more (i.e., I cut out meat during Lent and was REALLY wanting it by Easter).

    Another thing that bugs me is the idea that fat people must eat terrible diets and can't be expected to just switch to a lower cal nutrient dense one, but need some kind of "detox." This time when I lost weight (15 years after the original diet change discussed above), I ate a pretty good diet. And don't get me started on the idea that fat people must be obsessed with packaged candy and fast food, etc.

    Finally, I think I dislike the juice cleanse hype so because people seem to think there's something magical about drinking veg and fruit rather than eating them or perhaps vegetables don't seem interested if you just eat a lot as part of a regular diet (as I would recommend). Sometimes people admit they don't really like veg, so this is their only way to consume many, but if so I think that's a shame and something to work on, not something to promote.

    Okay, one more thing: I also think it's sad that people have such messed up understandings of what a good diet is and assume only vegetables is best (or not chewing food is best). Protein and fat are important.
  • cerise_noir
    cerise_noir Posts: 5,468 Member
    edited April 2017
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    AnvilHead wrote: »
    GirlPanda03 wrote: »
    The juicing is to reboot your system, get all the crap out that's been building up for years, and give your body the nutrition it needs to regain health/balance....

    How exactly does one "reboot" their system? We're not computers. And did he specifically name exactly what the "crap" is that builds up in your system for years? If that were the case, it would mean that your liver and kidneys have failed and you'd need dialysis. This question has been asked of every detox advocate on MFP ever, and not a single one has ever been able to name even ONE specific "toxin" that a detox has been scientifically shown to remove from your body.

    Additionally, as stevencloser referred to above, where are the essential fats and protein your body needs for good nutrition? Both are essential for many functions in the body and a diet without them is FAR from "healthy".

    I know you probably won't bother to read them, but for anybody else reading the thread and considering whether or not they should do a detox/cleanse, here are two very informative science/evidence-based articles which clearly show that detoxing/cleansing/rebooting is a bunch of worthless BS:

    https://sciencebasedpharmacy.wordpress.com/2013/01/04/the-detox-delusion/

    https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/the-detox-scam-how-to-spot-it-and-how-to-avoid-it/

    QFT and awesomeness. You never fail to deliver an awesome post @Anvil_Head

    @lemurcat12 fantastic post as usual. :)
  • Theo166
    Theo166 Posts: 2,564 Member
    edited April 2017
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    It's kinda sad to watch everyone talking past each other. FSAND only claims it's a magic feather that can help some people get to a healthier life style, it certainly doesn't claim it's the only path there, or that it's sufficient by itself (juicing).

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