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Sugar Addiction Myths
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Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.4 -
stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
True but direct wording from WHO related to added sugar.
Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity
This group along with the CDC and Heart Association apparently feel the need to call out excess calories from added sugar as a specific issue.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
True but direct wording from WHO related to added sugar.
Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity
This group along with the CDC and Heart Association apparently feel the need to call out excess calories from added sugar as a specific issue.
so if you become obese from over eating fats then that is OK, because you avoided added sugar??1 -
stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
apparently the new rule is if you get from fat from added sugar that is really bad, but if you get fat from just over consumption of say, fats, than that is just "bad" because no added sugar.
got it?0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »There are studies showing that when obese people lose just a small percentage of their body weight, their overall health improves. But those studies all involve improved diets and/or exercise.
As I mentioned in my prior post, every study I've seen of weight loss showed improvement, regardless of the diet, and that's what the Twinkie guy and the McD's guy also saw. People on very low carb diets without much in the way of vegetables (and I'm a huge proponent of veg) tend to see huge improvements too.
Do you get better improvements if you eat a more classically nutritious diet? I think it's possible (it would fit my own biases), but I have not seen anything to support that idea. I would be very interested.
Another thing I'd be interested in is a comparison from the health professionals studies of obese people (and overweight people) who have a classically nutritious diet vs. normal weight people in general and then normal weight people who have worse diets in various ways (although I agree there would be a correlation between good diet and normal weight in the study).
The funny thing is -- and yes, I assume you will ignore this -- I actually think we probably agree more than we don't, as I think (1) eating a healthy diet is a good thing to do, (2) for many people (not all) eating a healthy diet can make weight loss easier, and -- most important -- (3) for many people making improvements to the idea could be done easily and gradually. Indeed, I think rather than telling people they should drop their current diet and convert to some fad (even a healthy fad) like super low carb or WFPB or NO added sugar or flour or whatever that encouraging them to see the small changes that could make a huge differences, like reducing sweets and lower nutrition snacks, increasing vegetables in meals, maybe trying fruit instead of a cookie for a snack, looking at sources of protein and fat, choosing higher fiber carbs, etc. -- all of which can be done gradually and are IMO basically common sense is a good idea.
And showing them they do not have to immediately give up all "processed" foods, convenience items, and meals out or take out, but can work those into their current diet by making sensible choices (like mitymax did even in the context of a fast food only diet) can be an important part of this.
The debates about how people who say "you can continue to eat what you like and lose weight" must really be telling people to eat all junk or don't care about nutrition IMO tend to promote extremism and do nothing to encourage people who don't already eat a healthy diet to improve it. They just serve as a forum for a few posters to preen about how other people don't eat healthy or care about nutrition like they do.
I suspect that most of us in this discussion agree in large ways about what healthy eating is and what a sensible diet is and probably even that you can eat some so called junk or, certainly, some sugar or processed food in the context of a good diet without it being unhealthy. Is it possible for you to concede that and maybe talk about some of the things we all agree on, as well as strategy issues?
(Don't worry, I'm not holding my breath, although it would make me happy.)
I posted this earlier, after looking what the McDonald's and Twinkie diets consisted of
(McDonald's Diet) During his 90-day diet, Mr Cisna stuck to a strict limit of 2,000 calories per day and stayed close to the recommended dietary allowances for nutrients. He had his students plan out each of his meals using the fast food franchise's online nutritional information, requiring that they follow the dietary restrictions he set out.
Similar with the Twinkie Diet:
Two-thirds of his total intake came from junk food. He also took a multivitamin pill and drank a protein shake daily. And he ate vegetables, typically a can of green beans or three to four celery stalks.
www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/twinkie.diet.professor/index.html
In both examples some thought was given to nutrition.
I don't think that's inconsistent with what I said, as I think it's quite unlikely that anyone diets for any amount of time without giving some thought to nutrition. Thus, this fake dichotomy between those who care about nutrition and everyone else -- which you are one of the people pushing -- goes away. It certainly does if you are including in the "nutrition" camp people who eat only at McD's.
(I was actually thinking of the FatHead guy -- there seem to be multiple McD only people.)0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Weight issues connected with the ease of eating excessive calories when one eats a diet high in added sugars.
It wouldn't seem to apply if one limits calories appropriately.
Of course, then one would have to be careful to get adequate nutrition, IMO, but that can be done.
That said, I think the WHO approach is quite reasonable and not consistent with the common MFP extremism of "all sugar is bad and the worst of all possible foods and we will ignore the fact that the WHO also has concerns with excessive amounts of other kinds of foods" seen earlier in this thread, along with many other sources.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
True but direct wording from WHO related to added sugar.
Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity
This group along with the CDC and Heart Association apparently feel the need to call out excess calories from added sugar as a specific issue.
so if you become obese from over eating fats then that is OK, because you avoided added sugar??
Actually, the WHO sugar guideline got a lot of press because it is new to create a specific limit for added sugar.
People who go on about it -- as we see in this thread -- often ignore that it has had longer standing (and still existing) guidelines about fat and other things:
"For diet, recommendations for populations and individuals should include the following:
achieve energy balance and a healthy weight
limit energy intake from total fats and shift fat consumption away from saturated fats to unsaturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids
increase consumption of fruits and vegetables, and legumes, whole grains and nuts
limit the intake of free sugars
limit salt (sodium) consumption from all sources and ensure that salt is iodized
These recommendations need to be considered when preparing national policies and dietary guidelines, taking into account the local situation.
Improving dietary habits is a societal, not just an individual problem. Therefore it demands a population-based, multisectoral, multi-disciplinary, and culturally relevant approach."3 -
Packerjohn, precisely what do you think you are disagreeing with people about.
It seems to me that we are generally agreeing that a wide variety of diets can be healthful and healthful diets can include junk food and the big reason the WHO advises against added sugar is not "sugar addiction" or sugar being uniquely bad, but that it's really easy to overeat and not get enough nutrients IF you happen to eat a diet high in added sugar (and don't otherwise do anything to protect against increased calories or displacing nutrients).
Thus, the WHO wouldn't seem to disagree with common advice like:
Q: Can I lose weight eating junk?
A: Sure (calories are what matter for weight loss), but of course diet quality is relevant to health so you would want to include the junk in moderation and get enough other stuff.
Q: If I eat a piece of pie at grandma's this weekend, will I gain weight?
A: No, not if calories are otherwise in check.
Q: If I am within calories but over on sugar, will I lose weight?
A: Yes. (And the MFP sugar counter isn't always the best way to judge diet quality.)
Q: I can't imagine giving up McD's. Is weight loss hopeless?
A: No, fit it into your calories. For satiety and health, of course, you wouldn't want to live on burgers and fries only, but of course you were not suggesting that you would do that, and an occasional fast food meal within the context of a healthy diet (include the salad if you like) is perfectly possible.9 -
Packerjohn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
True but direct wording from WHO related to added sugar.
Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity
This group along with the CDC and Heart Association apparently feel the need to call out excess calories from added sugar as a specific issue.
so if you become obese from over eating fats then that is OK, because you avoided added sugar??
If you have questions you should probably contact the WHO. It's their guideline1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
True but direct wording from WHO related to added sugar.
Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity
This group along with the CDC and Heart Association apparently feel the need to call out excess calories from added sugar as a specific issue.
so if you become obese from over eating fats then that is OK, because you avoided added sugar??
Actually, the WHO sugar guideline got a lot of press because it is new to create a specific limit for added sugar.
People who go on about it -- as we see in this thread -- often ignore that it has had longer standing (and still existing) guidelines about fat and other things:
"For diet, recommendations for populations and individuals should include the following:
achieve energy balance and a healthy weight
limit energy intake from total fats and shift fat consumption away from saturated fats to unsaturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids
increase consumption of fruits and vegetables, and legumes, whole grains and nuts
limit the intake of free sugars
limit salt (sodium) consumption from all sources and ensure that salt is iodized
These recommendations need to be considered when preparing national policies and dietary guidelines, taking into account the local situation.
Improving dietary habits is a societal, not just an individual problem. Therefore it demands a population-based, multisectoral, multi-disciplinary, and culturally relevant approach."
Understand all that. The only reason I brought up the WHO sugar guideline was @tomteboda comment that the sugar guideline was primarily put out there related to dental health.
I was questioning that statement.1 -
lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn, precisely what do you think you are disagreeing with people about.
It seems to me that we are generally agreeing that a wide variety of diets can be healthful and healthful diets can include junk food and the big reason the WHO advises against added sugar is not "sugar addiction" or sugar being uniquely bad, but that it's really easy to overeat and not get enough nutrients IF you happen to eat a diet high in added sugar (and don't otherwise do anything to protect against increased calories or displacing nutrients).
Thus, the WHO wouldn't seem to disagree with common advice like:
Q: Can I lose weight eating junk?
A: Sure (calories are what matter for weight loss), but of course diet quality is relevant to health so you would want to include the junk in moderation and get enough other stuff.
Q: If I eat a piece of pie at grandma's this weekend, will I gain weight?
A: No, not if calories are otherwise in check.
Q: If I am within calories but over on sugar, will I lose weight?
A: Yes. (And the MFP sugar counter isn't always the best way to judge diet quality.)
Q: I can't imagine giving up McD's. Is weight loss hopeless?
A: No, fit it into your calories. For satiety and health, of course, you wouldn't want to live on burgers and fries only, but of course you were not suggesting that you would do that, and an occasional fast food meal within the context of a healthy diet (include the salad if you like) is perfectly possible.
I merely pointed out in the case of the McDonald's and Twinkie Diets discussed the individuals involved took steps to ensure their nutrition wasn't lacking. Most people reading MeDonald's and Twinkie Diet headlines don't read the part about the steps they took regarding nutrition.
Never said anything about sugar addiction or disputing CICO.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »stevencloser wrote: »Packerjohn wrote: »The primary reason the WHO recommended limiting sugars was to prevent dental caries. Just brush your teeth, folks.
You forgot the rest of the paragraph:
"Consuming free sugars increases the risk of dental caries (tooth decay). Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity."
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs394/en/
WHO guidelines on added sugars:
http://apps.who.int/iris/bitstream/10665/149782/1/9789241549028_eng.pdf
Not sure why the summary sentence mentions dental issues first, the rest of the materials list weight issues with added sugar first.
Excess calories from any source contribute to weight gain.
True but direct wording from WHO related to added sugar.
Excess calories from foods and drinks high in free sugars also contribute to unhealthy weight gain, which can lead to overweight and obesity
This group along with the CDC and Heart Association apparently feel the need to call out excess calories from added sugar as a specific issue.
so if you become obese from over eating fats then that is OK, because you avoided added sugar??
Actually, the WHO sugar guideline got a lot of press because it is new to create a specific limit for added sugar.
People who go on about it -- as we see in this thread -- often ignore that it has had longer standing (and still existing) guidelines about fat and other things:
"For diet, recommendations for populations and individuals should include the following:
achieve energy balance and a healthy weight
limit energy intake from total fats and shift fat consumption away from saturated fats to unsaturated fats and towards the elimination of trans-fatty acids
increase consumption of fruits and vegetables, and legumes, whole grains and nuts
limit the intake of free sugars
limit salt (sodium) consumption from all sources and ensure that salt is iodized
These recommendations need to be considered when preparing national policies and dietary guidelines, taking into account the local situation.
Improving dietary habits is a societal, not just an individual problem. Therefore it demands a population-based, multisectoral, multi-disciplinary, and culturally relevant approach."
Understand all that. The only reason I brought up the WHO sugar guideline was @tomteboda comment that the sugar guideline was primarily put out there related to dental health.
I was questioning that statement.
It's the first thing they say and in other publications they acknowledge that the % of macros has no bearing on weight loss, so the mentioning of weight gain is only because it's easy to overeat if you don't pay attention.1
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