How dare these restaurant chains not post nutritional information?

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  • janejellyroll
    janejellyroll Posts: 25,763 Member
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    AliceDark wrote: »
    Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »
    This is turning into a good debate: when should restaurants be required to post nutritional info? Here are some options

    - Make it entirely voluntary (never required)

    - Required it for chains selling standardized items (the current requirement for 20 or more locations)

    - Require it for all restaurants, all meals

    I wonder if restaurants should be allowed to do their own estimates listed as such. It is pretty easy to do that with a variety of online tools (including MFP).
    The bolded would effectively make it impossible for anyone to do a chef's special, or feature unique dishes because that's what looked good at the market that morning, or run a restaurant that changes the menu on any kind of regular basis. You'd be shutting down a very specific type of restaurant for no good reason. If you don't want to eat at those kinds of restaurants, that's fine, but it's unfair to restrict others from enjoying them.

    Not to mention that requiring it of all places would result in a lot of smaller places using estimates and online databases, things that aren't always accurate. That leaves them more vulnerable to things like media stories "calling them out" for using incorrect calorie counts and harm to their reputation in the community.

    Requiring every restaurant to provide calorie counts pretends that all restaurants have equally fixed menus (as you have called out) and equal resources. Chains can usually afford to do the type of analysis for accurate calorie counts. The corner diner often doesn't. It's an unequal burden.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »
    This is turning into a good debate: when should restaurants be required to post nutritional info? Here are some options

    - Make it entirely voluntary (never required)

    - Required it for chains selling standardized items (the current requirement for 20 or more locations)

    - Require it for all restaurants, all meals

    I wonder if restaurants should be allowed to do their own estimates listed as such. It is pretty easy to do that with a variety of online tools (including MFP).

    I think the way it is, is just fine...if you're a chain with more than 20 locations, you should have the resources whereby the requirement wouldn't be overbearing.

    I don't think allowing a restaurant to just use a database like MFP would be any good...to be remotely accurate I think it needs to be sent to a lab as it is now. Even then there's a wide margin of error depending on who's cooking...the error rate just using some database would be even higher.

    I agree. Putting very expensive requirements on small businesses will just result in many of these businesses failing (and jobs being lost). Restaurants have a very high failure rate already...requiring something that is unnecessary and expensive will just make it even harder to remain viable. And God forbid they want to introduce new dishes...it makes it much more expensive and complicated. And it basically makes it impossible for a chef to have a daily special. The restaurant found a great price this week on scallops and wants to do a special scallop dish? Too bad...by the time they send the recipe to a lab and get results back all of those scallops will have already gone bad and been thrown away.

    Nutrition info is great for big chains that very rarely introduce new items and who can spread the cost over dozens, hundreds, or even thousands of individual restaurants. For a mom and pop shop...it is an insane and impractical idea.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
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    Sharon_C wrote: »
    I actually agree with the OP. I get that it's expensive but people need to know. Anyone heard of Slim Chicken? People are OUTRAGED that the restaurant won't post their nutrition information. I went there once and won't go back because I have no idea how many calories I'm consuming.

    More and more people are becoming calorie conscious so I think it makes good business sense, but if they don't want to post it they don't have to post it. I'll just move on to a restaurant who does (besides, Raising Canes is much better than Slim Chicken anyway :D )

    It's not good business sense if you only have one or a few restaurants and the cost will actually put you out of business. If you can guaranty to Slim Chicken that you will personally buy one or two million dollars worth of their chicken if they post nutrition info, maybe they will do it for you. But they will probably ask for cash up front...and I don't blame them.
  • diannethegeek
    diannethegeek Posts: 14,776 Member
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    sisterlilbunny wrote: »
    I apologize. Are you legit mad over this or being facetious? Cause I mean yeah it's annoying but I make due because, you know, it's not up to them to take care of us.

    ^Same. I can't tell whether to read this as a little fun hyperbole or some really over-the-top outrage. I like my weird little hole-in-the-wall places and food trucks and whatnot. I'd hate to see new startups fail because I couldn't estimate the calories on my plate.
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    and again, if you don't like it, don't eat local....go to a chain and eat crummy, institutionalized franchise food.
  • JeepHair77
    JeepHair77 Posts: 1,291 Member
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    Yeah, I just can't get worked up over this. Restaurants shouldn't be required to leap over MORE red tape to do business. Mom and Pops are becoming fewer and further between, and I don't think that's a good trend.
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    Displaying nutritional info is voluntary for restaurants with less than 20 locations, so if a local (non-franchise) restaurant wants to display nutritional information, it isn't subject to the FDA standards for calculating nutrition (I see it all the time on menus for local businesses who put disclaimers that the stats are estimated).
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    Displaying nutritional info is voluntary for restaurants with less than 20 locations, so if a local (non-franchise) restaurant wants to display nutritional information, it isn't subject to the FDA standards for calculating nutrition (I see it all the time on menus for local businesses who put disclaimers that the stats are estimated).

    But the post you are quoting I said if it was required...if it was required they do it, it would be subject to FDA standards....

    I've personally never seen a local establishment even provide estimates...and frankly I could care less...I have common sense and I can guestimate well enough.
  • ScottishRob1
    ScottishRob1 Posts: 49 Member
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    I prefer to make my own, then I can calculate exactly how many calories I am consuming. Tastes great too.
    My recipe for food processor pizza dough:
    1 3/4 cups flour
    1 package yeast (2 teaspoons)
    1 teaspoon salt
    1 teaspoon sugar
    Throw it all in a food processor and add 3/4 cup hot water and 1 tablespoon olive oil
    Process on low until a dough ball forms.
    Knead in another 1/4 cup of flour.
    Let rise covered in a warm spot for 30-45 minutes.
    Roll out desired size on a lightly oiled surface, sprinkle a little cornmeal on a baking sheet and throw on your dough, add your toppings and bake at 425 for about 15-18 minutes.
    This makes 2-4 individual sized pizzas depending on size and thickness so that is about 565 calories for the entire batch.

    I use reduced fat cheese, lean pepperoni, etc...

    I'm sure there are ways to reduce the calories but this works for me, once or twice a month.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    JeepHair77 wrote: »
    Yeah, I just can't get worked up over this. Restaurants shouldn't be required to leap over MORE red tape to do business. Mom and Pops are becoming fewer and further between, and I don't think that's a good trend.

    Yeah, the Ermagherds are a bit over the top...
  • kimny72
    kimny72 Posts: 16,013 Member
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    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    Displaying nutritional info is voluntary for restaurants with less than 20 locations, so if a local (non-franchise) restaurant wants to display nutritional information, it isn't subject to the FDA standards for calculating nutrition (I see it all the time on menus for local businesses who put disclaimers that the stats are estimated).

    But if they're just estimating, what's the point? If the chef who works on weekdays measures the oil he's using, but the weekend chef likes to white knuckle it and "splash" it on, you have a better chance of judging how much oil you are eating correctly than blindly logging "estimated" numbers anyway.

    I honestly think the only useful point to published info like this is to make sure my estimate is in the same ballpark as the restaurants, and to help me narrow down which meals to consider. Even fast food, where you assume everything is cookie cutter, is just an estimate. I've ordered a Wendy's chicken sandwich when the chicken cutlet was bigger than the roll, and when the chicken has been smaller than the roll. When they've put on a dab of mayo, and when they clearly lost control of the bottle and dumped a quarter cup of mayo on my sammie. When the fries are overflowing the carton and when the fries only come up halfway. None of those meals was probably anywhere near what the published info said. It's all estimates, I might as well estimate it myself <shrug>
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    edited May 2017
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    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    Displaying nutritional info is voluntary for restaurants with less than 20 locations, so if a local (non-franchise) restaurant wants to display nutritional information, it isn't subject to the FDA standards for calculating nutrition (I see it all the time on menus for local businesses who put disclaimers that the stats are estimated).

    But the post you are quoting I said if it was required...if it was required they do it, it would be subject to FDA standards....

    I've personally never seen a local establishment even provide estimates...and frankly I could care less...I have common sense and I can guestimate well enough.



    My kid has severe food allergies, so it would take a complete lack of common sense not to understand the ingredients that he is eating. There are a lot of factors that dictate what people could and couldn't care less about.
  • MoiAussi93
    MoiAussi93 Posts: 1,948 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    Displaying nutritional info is voluntary for restaurants with less than 20 locations, so if a local (non-franchise) restaurant wants to display nutritional information, it isn't subject to the FDA standards for calculating nutrition (I see it all the time on menus for local businesses who put disclaimers that the stats are estimated).

    But the post you are quoting I said if it was required...if it was required they do it, it would be subject to FDA standards....

    I've personally never seen a local establishment even provide estimates...and frankly I could care less...I have common sense and I can guestimate well enough.


    My kid has severe food allergies, so it would take a complete lack of common sense not to understand the ingredients that he is eating. There are a lot of factors that dictate what people could and couldn't care less about.

    You can simply ask if the item contains whatever he is allergic to. If the waitress doesn't know, she can simply ask a chef.

    There is no cost involved in that and it is not overly burdensome to the business. Providing calorie and macro information is an entirely different story...and not necessary for health reasons.
  • peterbuller8
    peterbuller8 Posts: 155 Member
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    Why should they put up the info just because a very small number of the population count calories.
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
    edited May 2017
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    MoiAussi93 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    They can't just rely on that...it goes to a lab...

    Displaying nutritional info is voluntary for restaurants with less than 20 locations, so if a local (non-franchise) restaurant wants to display nutritional information, it isn't subject to the FDA standards for calculating nutrition (I see it all the time on menus for local businesses who put disclaimers that the stats are estimated).

    But the post you are quoting I said if it was required...if it was required they do it, it would be subject to FDA standards....

    I've personally never seen a local establishment even provide estimates...and frankly I could care less...I have common sense and I can guestimate well enough.

    (Pssst - it is *couldn't care less*)

    My kid has severe food allergies, so it would take a complete lack of common sense not to understand the ingredients that he is eating. There are a lot of factors that dictate what people could and couldn't care less about.

    You can simply ask if the item contains whatever he is allergic to. If the waitress doesn't know, she can simply ask a chef.

    There is no cost involved in that and it is not overly burdensome to the business. Providing calorie and macro information is an entirely different story...and not necessary for health reasons.

    Yeah, we always talk to the waiter and sometimes the chef. Sometimes I am less than impressed by their lack of knowledge concerning their own foods.

    I'm not saying that non-franchise restaurants should be forced by law to disclose nutrition, I'm just saying that I appreciate the ones that are meticulous and go the extra mile for their customers.
  • earlnabby
    earlnabby Posts: 8,171 Member
    edited May 2017
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    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    In order to post nutritional information the food has to go to a lab certified by the FDA and the lab has to run several tests to determine the average nutritional information. Not a cheap option for a business that runs on a slim profit margin.
  • Bry_Fitness70
    Bry_Fitness70 Posts: 2,480 Member
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    earlnabby wrote: »
    Bry_Lander wrote: »
    cwolfman13 wrote: »
    It costs a lot of money...if mom and pop shops were required to do that, there wouldn't be too many mom and pop shops.

    I'm sure that all of the ingredients in their pizzas have nutritional information, including the flour, dough, cheese, sauce, toppings, etc., and they should be relatively consistent in how much they use for each product (if not, they aren't running things efficiently and aren't controlling their food costs). Therefore, I'm not buying that it is some monumental effort to provide nutritional information.

    In order to post nutritional information the food has to go to a lab certified by the FDA and the lab has to run several tests to determine the average nutritional information. Not a cheap option for a business that runs on a slim profit margin.

    If you have less than 20 locations then there isn't any FDA involvement.

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