Fasting
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mohamedahmed07 wrote: »mohamedahmed07 wrote: »mohamedahmed07 wrote: »Ayybee1114 wrote: »I need some opinions on water fasting.
Intermittent fasting is proved by science to lower insulin levels, increase insulin sensitivity, raise growth hormone which is a fat burning/muscle building hormone, and it helps curing many diseases, it is now being used to help people with cancer and diabetes and YES it helps reducing FAT, so if you're into losing fat instead of weight it is really good and it's also good for your hormones, you can find more about it on google, but every topic is always positive, it's only bad side is that it's quite hard to eat in a 8hours window and stop eating for 16hours
If you're talking about no food whole day and just water, then it also works, but twice a week or so, over doing it is harmful, you can search it on google as well.
The "proof" you are reading up on is anecdotal evidence........my blood tests before....my blood tests after, that sort of thing. What the evidence doesn't show are the MANY other factors that would also influence results. Did the test subjects start a Mediterranean diet, did the test subjects start an exercise program, heredity, medication, there are dozens of factors. IF didn't happen in a vacuum.
As far as you not losing weight when you were "500 calories" under maintenance......that's easily explained a) you were eating more than you thought and/or b) your maintenance was lower than you thought. Your maintenance is a guesstimate. A CALORIE IS A CALORIE.
If a calorie is a calorie can you explain to me this study? in 19 of 20 studies it was proven that low carb dieters lost more weight than low fat dieters? and low carb dieters had a CLEAR advantage in mid section (belly) size.
This study proves that in 19/20 of the studies, the low carbs groups lost more weight than the low fat groups even while being on the same caloric deficit. Even that both were on a deficit?
https://authoritynutrition.com/23-studies-on-low-carb-and-low-fat-diets/
And nope, I was counting my calories very properly. and still couldn't lose weight until I switched low carbs.
Stop with the all calorie is a calorie stuff. some people can't lose weight even on a deficit, there are plenty of researches that prove low carb > low fat and there are researches that prove that insulin can block fat burning also cortisol (stress hormone) when you are stress you can't lose weight as well.
There is an initial "whoosh" of water weight loss for low carbers. Your body is depleting glycogen stores. After the depletion, weight loss resumes at the normal pace. WATER weight is not fat reduction. Water weight returns if/when you start eating carbs again.
The whole belly fat thing is a myth. You cannot spot reduce thru diet or exercise. That's why people pay thousands of dollars for lyposuction.
Authority nutrition.....not a reputable source.
Weight Loss: The low-carb group lost an average of 5.8 kg (12.8 lbs) while the low-fat group lost only 1.9 kg (4.2 lbs). The difference was statistically significant.
4kg difference is water? what are we talking about? This weight advantage was for over 12months, by then, both dieters should have lost water weight not just the low carb dieters.
Authority nutrition also left link to the studies next to the titles.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa022637
This is the second study ^
So the new England journal of medicine is not a reputable source and you sir... with a picture of a cat and a mouse are?
When a questionable site (authority nutrition) uses a citation, it often reflects confirmation bias and/or it's a mediocre study.
The NEJM study cited is of questionable value. First of all, its relatively old for this type of research (2003). Secondly, there were a lot of methodological issues. The biggest flaw was the failure to standardize protein intake. (As I read it, it looks like they gave them general diet counseling and they turned them loose and said to report back what you ate. There was no control over exercise, types of fat consumed, calorie intake, etc). As someone posted earlier, studies with strict control, equal protein intake , and isocaloric intake have shown no advantage to low carb.
Personal anecdotes are important for that individual, but useless for drawing larger conclusions. Single studies have to be approached with caution as well. I don't know it is about low-carb that provokes an almost theological response among its adherents, but the claims do not stand up to scientific rigor.
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I have not read every comment, because I am pretty confident the across-the-board answer is...
No.
If you need to detox, go to the doctor because your liver and kidneys have failed.
No.
Your body needs fuel to function. You will end up doing more harm than good.
No.
Just...no.0 -
Water fast if you want to. All the reasons not to are just people repeating what they have heard before. Your body can go a very long time without food. If you have 5 % body fat and fast you'll lose a little muscle. But if you have 30%, you'll eat before you lose any. I regularly do 48-hour fasts and have gone as long as 7 days before. It won't hurt you. Be mindful if you take medication because your blood pressure and glucose drop a bunch after a few days.0
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Ayybee1114 wrote: »Wouldn't be doing it for weight loss. Would be doing it for detox only
From experience, water fasting for any reason can lead to later excessive consumption of the foods you are trying detox out of your system. Water fasting is not healthy, and the potential natural signs of hunger, lightheadedness, and headaches are proof.0 -
Water fasting for a day or so is not unhealthy, but it doesn't do anything to "detox" and is not a good approach to weight loss. My suspicion when someone bring it up here is they are thinking about it as a weight loss tool, and so I think the reaction is appropriate. If you were interested in spiritual aspects, why bring it up on MFP?2
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Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
Look him up.
Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
I don't see the value.
If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.
If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.
Don't waste money on scams.
Gabriel Brooks PharmD0 -
hoppinglark wrote: »Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
Look him up.
Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
I don't see the value.
If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.
If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.
Don't waste money on scams.
Gabriel Brooks PharmD
Ironic post is ironic.
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hoppinglark wrote: »Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
Look him up.
Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
I don't see the value.
If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.
If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.
Don't waste money on scams.
Gabriel Brooks PharmD
fung also thinks a person with type 2 diabetes with a 6+ A1c level can do fine without insulin ,and that his diet can "cure" diabetes. when most of the time all that is needed for most is losing weight and eating a certain way.at best hes a quack3 -
Where on Earth is everyone getting the idea to water fast? JFC... it's completely unnecessary.Ayybee1114 wrote: »Water fasting is drinking only water. Not actually fasting from water. No food. Just water.
1. Your body detoxes itself. Detox is a marketing buzz word used to sell laxatives. If you needed a detox you'd be in the ER hooked up to a bunch of machines.
2. If you manage to survive 24 hours on just water you wouldn't cause harm. If you do it a few times a month you could potentially cause harm. Harm meaning you'll destroy your lean mass making it harder to maintain weight loss.
3. Overly restrictive diets (such as a water fast) lead to yo-yo dieting. Starve yourself for a day, keep strict for a few more days, binge eat on weekends, back to square one over and over and over again.
Well said.
A calorie is a calorie. Go look up the actual definition. Calories are not nutrition. You bluntly and rudely tell someone that they lack knowledge. Huh.mohamedahmed07 wrote: »cross2bear wrote: »mohamedahmed07 wrote: »Ayybee1114 wrote: »I need some opinions on water fasting.
Intermittent fasting is proved by science to lower insulin levels, increase insulin sensitivity, raise growth hormone which is a fat burning/muscle building hormone, and it helps curing many diseases, it is now being used to help people with cancer and diabetes and YES it helps reducing FAT, so if you're into losing fat instead of weight it is really good and it's also good for your hormones, you can find more about it on google, but every topic is always positive, it's only bad side is that it's quite hard to eat in a 8hours window and stop eating for 16hours
If you're talking about no food whole day and just water, then it also works, but twice a week or so, over doing it is harmful, you can search it on google as well.
This is bunk. EVERYONE fasts at one point or another (while we sleep), and it does nothing for cancer or any other disease. Intermittent Fasting is simply a way of eating, and it is easy to eat within an 8 hour window and not eat for 16 hours - again, the sleeping thing. Honestly, people spend way too much time on google and being bamboozled.
You lack knowledge.
http://www.cancerdefeated.com/the-most-effective-way-to-beat-cancer-is-free-and-do-it-yourself/3105/
http://www.hope4cancer.com/information/healing-cancer-on-time-how-intermittent-fasting-may-help.html
http://fitness.mercola.com/sites/fitness/archive/2015/07/03/intermittent-fasting-cancer-treatment.aspx
If a calorie is a calorie can you explain why I NEVER could lose weight for 4months straight with 500 calories under my maintenance level, 50 grams of sugar a day, 70% carbs 25% protein 5% fat while lifting weights?
Can you prove all these websites and researches wrong?
Yes you can't lose weight without being in a caloric deficit but for some people it doesn't work, then they have to use some sort of tools (low carbs, intermittent fasting and other diets)
And Mercola? Seriously? *shakes head* None of the sites listed are remotely science.
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hoppinglark wrote: »Dr. Jason Fung uses fasting for his type II diabetic patients.
Look him up.
Unless you are a Type II Diabetic, or have some other issue that needs treatment by an MD.
I don't see the value.
If you need to "De-Tox" take activated charcoal, that's what we use when someone overdosed on drugs.
If you think there's something in your liver/bile, take a large dose of Metamucil- it's believed to precipitate your bile acids so they are excreted.
Don't waste money on scams.
Gabriel Brooks PharmD
Yes activated charcoal is used when people have swallowed poisons - nil value in anyone just taking it for no reason.
Metamucil is simply a fibre supplement - good as a bulking agent for people who are constipated. Nil value for liver or bile issues.
Diabetics are last people who should do water fasts. As has been said, harmless in short term for most people - but diabetics on medication should eat regular meals. ( in calorie controlled portions, of course)
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Yes activated charcoal is used when people have swallowed poisons - nil value in anyone just taking it for no reason.
Metamucil is simply a fibre supplement - good as a bulking agent for people who are constipated. Nil value for liver or bile issues.
Diabetics are last people who should do water fasts. As has been said, harmless in short term for most people - but diabetics on medication should eat regular meals. ( in calorie controlled portions, of course)
Yes, that's my point! The only real product studied for detox is activated charcoal.
I'm guessing you've never looked into how fiber reduces cholesterol then.
Considering this was taught to me academically, I consider it a simple fact.
A quick google of "how fiber reduces cholesterol" turns up several pages explaining this relationship.
First one I found : http://healthyeating.sfgate.com/fiber-reduce-ldl-5545.html
Bile Acids
In addition to producing and processing cholesterol, your liver also uses cholesterol to make bile acids. The bile acids travel through the bile duct from the liver to the gall bladder, which stores it until needed. When you eat a meal containing fat, the gall bladder releases bile into the intestines where the bile acids break apart the fat molecules to promote the absorption of the fat and the fat-soluble vitamins. Your body then reabsorbs approximately 95 percent of the bile acids from the intestines back into the blood stream where they travel to the liver and back to the gall bladder to be re-secreted into the intestines to aid fat digestion.
Fiber Action
Soluble fiber found in foods, such as oats, beans, peas and some fruits like apples and citrus fruits, binds to cholesterol and bile acids in the intestine and promotes their excretion. When the soluble fiber binds to and removes bile acids from your body, the amount re-circulated decreases so your liver must use more cholesterol to produce more bile acids, therefore lowering the amount of cholesterol in the body available to make LDL. In fact, Colorado State University confirms that bile acid secretion is a major route for eliminating cholesterol. In addition, a study published in the “American Journal of Clinical Nutrition” concluded that consuming 2 to 10 grams of soluble fiber per day produced a small but significant decrease in LDL cholesterol levels.
I find you attitude that "Diabetics should never fast" contrary to history, Prior to Eli Lilly mass producing insulin, starvation diets were the only way to control diabetes type 1.
While I would never recommend that a Type 1 diabetic fast, If fasting could help a Type 2 diabetic get off of their sulfonylurea, Meglitinides, or similar medications, that would halt the disease in it's tracks.
In my line of work I've found that some people will "demand" a de-tox product, in a retail setting I know my employer has all sorts of nonsense on the shelf, I can simply dismiss their concerns or explain that the only products I've seen discussed in the literature to have any detox properties are activated charcoal and psyllium.
I chose the latter.0 -
I don't agree that fasting will help type 2 diabetics get off their medication - but it will muck up their blood sugar stability.
Losing weight may result in reduction of meds - but no need for fasting to do that.
Charcoal has a specific detoxing role in poisons - not in general detoxing as people mean it on here so no need for anyone to choose it.
Nor fibre supplements for detoxing either.
Or anything for detoxing since there is no need or purpose for such in the way people starting threads mean it.
Nobody starts a thread saying Ive swallowed poisons, should I use charcoal to detox?2
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