June 2017 Running Challenge

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Replies

  • autumnblade75
    autumnblade75 Posts: 1,661 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    Anyone on here know about wrist HRMs? New GPS watch I'm looking at has one, and I'm wondering on accuracy, as I'm used to using a chest strap.

    I think the one in my Vivosmart HR+ is comparable to the Fitbit Charge HR I was using before. I think it's reasonable - it gives me a good ballpark of my effort. It's probably not great for HIIT/Sprints/Fartleks - but I don't know how you'd use it in those situations, either. For reference, I am pale and have little body hair, and I wear it snug enough that there's a dent in my wrist when I take it off. All the things that they say will give the best results.
  • autumnblade75
    autumnblade75 Posts: 1,661 Member
    skippygirlsmom wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 sorry it didn't go as you wanted, but still a great time. I saw the article on the bear killing the boy, my first thought also was how do you text with a bear chasing you. Such a shame. Geesh they couldn't get you the right shirt. ugh! I brought a new to me car and it has the key fob and button to start it, but I had to laugh at your watching a video.

    I'm not too upset with my performance, as much as I'd have preferred a PR - the scenery was spectacular. I should've stopped to take pictures, especially after I realized I wasn't going to do as well as I'd hoped. I could've shared the bear poop on the center line of the road with all of you.

    I AM upset about the shirt, though. That's kind of a big deal to me.

    We were damned if we were going to go ASK how to start the car - but that was the first time we'd seen such a thing.
  • Azercord
    Azercord Posts: 573 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    Anyone on here know about wrist HRMs? New GPS watch I'm looking at has one, and I'm wondering on accuracy, as I'm used to using a chest strap.

    I'm tan with a decent amount of arm hair and they do ok. I have to snug it down when running and even then it sometimes just uses my cadence. I have a fitbit blaze that did pretty good and I just switched to the Fenix 5 so we are getting to know each other but it seems alright so far. Like @autumnblade75 said though they aren't all that great with fast HR changes, they will catch up but it will take them a few seconds longer.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @autumnblade75 @Azercord Thanks for the input. I don't do a lot of interval work, at least not where I'm looking at HR data, as all my short intervals I run by pace. Mainly I was womdering about overall accuracy for long runs, tempo runs, etc..... I have no issue with my chest strap, it's just that the Garmin I'm looking at has the built in HRM, so I was kind of curious.
  • Bakins929
    Bakins929 Posts: 895 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 @Azercord Thanks for the input. I don't do a lot of interval work, at least not where I'm looking at HR data, as all my short intervals I run by pace. Mainly I was womdering about overall accuracy for long runs, tempo runs, etc..... I have no issue with my chest strap, it's just that the Garmin I'm looking at has the built in HRM, so I was kind of curious.

    A buddy of mine has a Forerunner 235 and said it was not as accurate as his 230 and a chest strap, but it was fairly close. He had the same issues most wrist based HRMs do, slow to react to changes, sliding down near wristbone where it may or may not pick up pulse, etc.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    edited June 2017
    Bakins929 wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @autumnblade75 @Azercord Thanks for the input. I don't do a lot of interval work, at least not where I'm looking at HR data, as all my short intervals I run by pace. Mainly I was womdering about overall accuracy for long runs, tempo runs, etc..... I have no issue with my chest strap, it's just that the Garmin I'm looking at has the built in HRM, so I was kind of curious.

    A buddy of mine has a Forerunner 235 and said it was not as accurate as his 230 and a chest strap, but it was fairly close. He had the same issues most wrist based HRMs do, slow to react to changes, sliding down near wristbone where it may or may not pick up pulse, etc.

    yup. Those are the issues I'm concerned about. Basically I'm looking at upgrading, and the watch I really want has the wrist mounted HRM, but I don't really care for it. I want the other features, but might be stuck with the Wrist HRM to get what I want.

    It's kind of coming down to the Garmin Forerunner 935, 920XT or Fenix 3. I really like the 935, but the wrist HRM bugs me.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    @MNLittleFinn

    The optical HRMs on the wrist-worn devices, when properly worn, are very accurate. They normally test within a few percent of the "gold standard" (a full EKG). Whenever I have checked the one on my Apple watch it was always within a few beats of any other way I measure. The problem most people have is not getting the sensor right up against the skin. The looser it is the more likely it is to be wrong. I actually put mine on the first slightly uncomfortable level of tightness and have no problems (you get used to the feeling quickly and it is no longer uncomfortable).

    Someone mentioned it "sliding down" - they have it on too loose, that is why it is not reading as well. It should not move. If it moves while reading that will impact the accuracy.

    HR monitoring in general (electrical or optical) is delayed by 30-60 seconds behind reality so for fast short sprints, they simply do not help.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @PastorVincent thanks for that input. I generally wear my watch pretty tight, so maybe the sliding wouldn't be a problem. I don't run short sprints by HR. I monitor HR on my Easy Runs, Tempo Runs and Long Runs, and that's about it. The 935 is my top pick, I really was only stuck on the optical HR.

    Basically, it comes down to, I like running long, and eventually I will have a 50 mile and a 100k in my future, and I need more than the 11 hours my 230 gives me, I need at least 13 hours for 50 mile, based on current times using the McMillan Calculator. Since my wife is getting into running, it's a good time for me to upgrade and give her my 230.
  • katharmonic
    katharmonic Posts: 5,720 Member
    Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
    06/01/17 :::: 2.4 :::: 2.4
    06/02/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 2.4
    06/03/17 :::: 8.4 :::: 10.7
    06/04/17 :::: 3.1 :::: 13.9
    06/05/17 :::: 3.3 :::: 17.2
    06/06/17 :::: 3.5 :::: 20.7
    06/07/17 :::: 5.0 :::: 25.7
    06/08/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 25.7
    06/09/17 :::: 3.6 :::: 29.3
    06/10/17 :::: 7.8 :::: 37.0
    06/11/17 :::: 7.5 :::: 44.5
    06/12/17 :::: 2.8 :::: 47.4
    06/13/17 :::: 4.0 :::: 51.4
    06/14/17 :::: 2.6 :::: 53.9
    06/15/17 :::: 3.3 :::: 57.2
    06/16/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 57.2
    06/17/17 :::: 8.5 :::: 65.7
    06/18/17 :::: 3.3 :::: 69.0
    06/19/17 :::: 3.4 :::: 72.4
    06/20/17 :::: 5.6 :::: 77.9
    06/21/17 :::: 3.0 :::: 80.9
    Goal = 100 miles

    Run while the running is good - got to take advantage of the mild weather on this longest day.



  • Elise4270
    Elise4270 Posts: 8,375 Member
    1---5.06
    3---6.31
    4---6.29
    6---3.69 walk
    7---4.37
    9---3.76
    10---6.34
    11---5.19
    13---3.64
    15---3.56
    16---mtn bike 4.95 miles
    17---2.5 walk
    18---2.04 run +7.8 mile bike
    20---3.14 walk
    21---3.22 walk inspired by @greenolivetree trying to get that 15min/mile pace. 16:12 ;-)

    59.02/70

    Upcoming races

    June 17th Turtle run 5K
    AIM for the Cure- 5K, virual run
    July 8- XTERRA Jurassic Trail Run, 5K.  Glen Rose,TX
    Dec 2- POOP trail run, Hoping for a half! Norman OK.

    Pre-op PR's
    1 mile 8:27  5k 24:42. 10k 1:00.52.  HM 2:17.28
    Post-op Training PR's
    1 mile 10:50  5k 37.46 10k 1:20.25
  • BettyM1017
    BettyM1017 Posts: 616 Member
    June 21 – 5.0 miles Easy Run

    Total: 69.25 miles/100 miles

    Upcoming Race:
    June 23 – St. Pete Beach Series, Race #1, 5K
  • KeepRunningFatboy
    KeepRunningFatboy Posts: 3,055 Member
    WK 6.19.17 - 6.25.17

    M - 9.8 miles - Legs felt sluggish,
    T - Rest Day
    W - 10 miles.
    T -
    F -
    S - 1/2 Marathon scheduled
    S -
    Total - running Miles * Goal is a 55-60 mile running week. :)
  • zdyb23456
    zdyb23456 Posts: 1,706 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @PastorVincent thanks for that input. I generally wear my watch pretty tight, so maybe the sliding wouldn't be a problem. I don't run short sprints by HR. I monitor HR on my Easy Runs, Tempo Runs and Long Runs, and that's about it. The 935 is my top pick, I really was only stuck on the optical HR.

    Basically, it comes down to, I like running long, and eventually I will have a 50 mile and a 100k in my future, and I need more than the 11 hours my 230 gives me, I need at least 13 hours for 50 mile, based on current times using the McMillan Calculator. Since my wife is getting into running, it's a good time for me to upgrade and give her my 230.

    This just blows my mind - running for 13 hours! It's incredible! I can't wait to hear about it :smile:
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @PastorVincent thanks for that input. I generally wear my watch pretty tight, so maybe the sliding wouldn't be a problem. I don't run short sprints by HR. I monitor HR on my Easy Runs, Tempo Runs and Long Runs, and that's about it. The 935 is my top pick, I really was only stuck on the optical HR.

    Basically, it comes down to, I like running long, and eventually I will have a 50 mile and a 100k in my future, and I need more than the 11 hours my 230 gives me, I need at least 13 hours for 50 mile, based on current times using the McMillan Calculator. Since my wife is getting into running, it's a good time for me to upgrade and give her my 230.

    The 13 hours, I understand. My 630 is supposedly good for 12 hours with GLONASS turned on, something more without it; I'd have to go look at the marketing claims. The watches designed for triathletes need better battery life, because it takes a long time to complete an iron man tri.

    I won't buy a watch with a wrist HR monitor, unless I can override it to use my chest strap. I can believe that the wrist-based technology is or will be accurate enough; I can't believe it will pick up my HR through three layers of sleeves when I run in the winter. Wearing it under the outermost layer is a non-starter, because then I can't see the watch when I'm running.

    A friend of mine says he just wears the HR monitor watch on his wrist, between his sleeves and his glove. I'm willing to believe that might work OK down to about 25º F if there's no significant wind. I don't even want to test it at 15º F and below. I know my chest strap HR monitor works just fine with my 630 mounted outside my outermost sleeves down to single digits F; I don't know how cold it gets in northern Minnesota, but I suspect you'll be running more in sub-zero weather than I do.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    @autumnblade75 Sorry you did not PR, but at least you were not eaten by a bear. You have to admit that is a big win in and of itself! Sounds like you at least learned a bit more about yourself and marathons. That is always a plus.

    I will have to look up what Zombie Run is...
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    @MobyCarp Winter running will be an issue. The watches use optical technology (fancy way of saying light *grin* ) to get your heart rate. It is proven tech that is used by hospitals and doctors every day... BUT always against bare skin. I would be shocked if it worked well through even 1 winter base layer. Here in Pittsburgh, we do get sub-zero days, but I am not likely to run in them. If I do, the watch will still be against my skin below all the layers. I do not really look at it when I run, I depend on the verbal updates every 2 minutes that call out the stats I care about (avg pace, current pace, and heart rate).

    If you wanted to wear it outside your clothes, then yeah, a chest strap is your best bet. Personally, I can not use a chest strap, the electrical means of measuring heart rate does not work for me at all due to my heart condition. Only the wrist ones do.
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    June Running Totals (miles)
    6/1 – 8.25 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/2 – rest day
    6/3 – 12.18 solo + group run
    6/4 – 7.21 easy with fast finish
    6/5 – 7.07 easy
    6/6 – 11.05 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/7 – 7.38 group run
    6/8 – 5.33 warm up, easy speed work, cool down
    6/9 – 3.01 warm up + McMullen Mile
    6/10 – 15.01 group run 6 + solo run 9
    6/11 – 10.01 hot and sunny
    6/12 – 10.06 hot with hills
    6/13 – 8.64 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/14 – 10.04 easy
    6/15 AM – 5.05 easy with rain
    6/15 PM – 4.88 commute, time trial, cheering laps
    6/16 – rest day
    6/17 – 13.32 paced run for 8 + extra miles
    6/18 – 12.03 warm up, race, easy run
    6/19 – 9.77 easy
    6/20 – 8.38 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/21 – 10.22 easy

    June total to date – 178.89

    Nominal Challenge Goal – 230 miles
    Real Goals: Stay healthy. Train toward Rochester Marathon. Run McMullen Mile in under 5:50 on June 9. [Done, 5:44.9] Run Medved 5K to Cure ALS in under 20:00 on June 18. [Done, 19:32]

    Today's notes – Wanted to run a daily double, about 4 miles from home plus 6 with the Wednesday running group. Had a disaster of a day from a time management perspective, and that didn't happen. Got to the other running store early, with the idea of maybe running 3 miles before the group run and an OCD amount afterward to make 10 miles.

    It turned out that instead of the usual simple group run, this evening was the Harrier Games, a run/scavenger hunt event where teams had to find locations and do stuff, documenting with pictures posted to FB to earn points. Finishing faster than other teams also earned points. I was offered a spot on the team with a guy I know who is very good at this sort of thing; but I wanted 10 miles.

    So I left earlier than the Harrier Games or the usual group run would start, since I was running solo anyway. Went exploring a little. Found out where the end of one trail went, found another trail I'd run on with the group but hadn't known how it hooked in, ran on some roads that I was vaguely familiar with on a map, and ended up adding some distance on familiar trails to make it come out near 10 miles. At 73º F (23º C) with 53% relative humidity, the weather felt great until I stopped running. Then I started dripping sweat.

    But I managed to keep it easy as a solo run, which was the main point. 10.22 miles in 1:22:32, for an average pace of 8:05 per mile. Average HR 121, max HR 141, 1:13:56 in HR Zone 1. Nice and easy. Probably should have stopped for some pictures, but that's not where my head was.

    2017 races:
    January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
    January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
    January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
    January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
    February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
    February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
    February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
    March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
    March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
    April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:49:42
    April 30, 2017 USATF Masters 10K Championship (James Joyce Ramble, Dedham, MA) finished in 39:54, PR for 10K
    May 21, 2017 Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY) finished in 40:04
    May 27, 2017 Canandaigua Classic Half Marathon (Canandaigua, NY) finished in 1:33:06
    June 9, 2017 Charlie McMullen Mile (Fairport, NY) finished in 5:44.90, PR for mile
    June 18, 2017 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY) finished in 19:32
    July 15, 2017 Shoreline Half Marathon [1:40 pacer] (Hamlin, NY)
    July 28, 2017 Karknocker 5K (East Rochester, NY)
    September 3, 2017 Oak Tree Half Marathon (Geneseo, NY)
    September 17, 2017 MVP Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
    November 23, 2017 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    6/01 - 7.02 miles @ 9:53
    6/03 - 10k Race - 50:56 - 8:14
    6/03 - 5k Race - 27:06 - 8: 35 (back to back with 10k, 7 mins rest between)
    6/05 - 6.51 miles @ 10:31
    6/06 - 6.02 miles @ 9:39
    6/07 - 6.02 miles @ 9:30
    6/08 - 7.01 miles @ 9:37
    6/10 - 15 miles @ 10:46
    6/11 - 9.01 miles @ 10:36 - 90+ degree weather, ran slow to compensate
    6/12 - 8.01 miles @ 10:38 - 90+ degree weather, ran slow to compensate
    6/13 - Thinderstorms forced rest day
    6/14 - 10 miles @10:50 w/ 894' evevation - very humid could not maintain pace
    6/14 - 5 miles @11:06 - second run later in day when not as hot
    6/15 - 9 miles @ 10:58
    6/16 - 12 miles @ 10:46
    6/17 - Rest day
    6/18 - forced rest day due to thunderstorms :frowning:
    6/19 - 13 miles - "long run with fast finish"
    6/20 - 8 miles - moderate run - Low zone 2
    6/21 - 6.55 miles @ 9:43 pace

    Summer Goal: Get my marathon pace below 9 minutes.
    Official Marathon PR: 4:11:28

    Next Races (more as I find them):

    07/28/17 - Liberty Mile - 1 mile race just to see what a short run really is :)
    10/14/17 - Stop, Drop, and Run - Fireman style obstacle course - 5km

    05/06/18 - Pittsburgh Marathon - aiming for sub four hours.

    Set out with the intention of running a "tempo" run. I stuck to a flatter course, so still only 485 feet of elevation (which is pretty flat for this area). I managed to get my pace back into the mid 9's but never did break into HR Zone 3 for some reason even though I was running over a full minute per mile faster than my long runs. Next week I will need to really see if I can push out 6 miles at 9/mile.

    Also next week I hope to add some cross training back in. I really would like to see a 8:30 pace for my 6-8 mile runs before the summer ends. I will loose ground in the winter due to weather, but I hope to enter into the 18-Week marathon training cycle with a much better foundation than I did this year.

    I probably will not train for the 1 mile race, though I sure I would have a chance to win it if I did. I used to run a 5min mile back when I though 5k was the max anyone could reasonably run. :) The winner of the non-elite division last year was only 5:55. I sure I could still beat that with some training but that would mean lots of short interval training and what not. Not my cup of tea as they say. Nah, I will just focus on my sub-four marathon dream.
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    @MobyCarp you nailed why I'm not sure about the optical HRM.... running in -25 temps. Basically all I really want are compass, barometric altimeter and battery life up close to 20 hours so I'll have extra battery life at the end of an ultra.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @MobyCarp you nailed why I'm not sure about the optical HRM.... running in -25 temps. Basically all I really want are compass, barometric altimeter and battery life up close to 20 hours so I'll have extra battery life at the end of an ultra.

    Most of these devices you should be able to turn the HR monitor off - my Fitbit charge 2 I can, and I have a tomtom multisport which I connect up to an HR cheststrap and that also I can turn off to save battery life.

    From what I understand the cheststrap is more accurate than the optical monitor, and quicker and registering changes. I would look for a device where you have the option of turning off the HR feature, and even overriding the optical for the chest strap. That gives all the flexibility you need.

    Battery life is a constant problem for people though. If you aren't using the GPS function or HR that should help.
  • carolineb81
    carolineb81 Posts: 459 Member
    1/6 - 3.6
    2/6 - 4.9
    3/6-5.6
    4/6 -REST
    5/6-3.9
    6/6-4.7
    7/6-3.1
    8/6-4.3
    9/0 -REST
    10/6-3.8
    11/6-6.5
    12/6-REST
    13/6-3.7
    14/6-5.2
    15/6-6.0
    16/6-REST
    17/6-5.1
    18/6-5.1
    19/6-3.4
    20/6-3.4
    21/6-REST
    22/6 - 4.0

    Total - 76.3/90 Miles
    Today was meant to be 4.5 miles but at 3.5 miles the biggest thunder storm and hail started so I cut run a bit short
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    girlinahat wrote: »
    MNLittleFinn wrote: »
    @MobyCarp you nailed why I'm not sure about the optical HRM.... running in -25 temps. Basically all I really want are compass, barometric altimeter and battery life up close to 20 hours so I'll have extra battery life at the end of an ultra.

    Most of these devices you should be able to turn the HR monitor off - my Fitbit charge 2 I can, and I have a tomtom multisport which I connect up to an HR cheststrap and that also I can turn off to save battery life.

    From what I understand the cheststrap is more accurate than the optical monitor, and quicker and registering changes. I would look for a device where you have the option of turning off the HR feature, and even overriding the optical for the chest strap. That gives all the flexibility you need.

    Battery life is a constant problem for people though. If you aren't using the GPS function or HR that should help.

    cheststrap has the same delay issue, it is physiological, not the technology that is the issue. Both are accurate, assuming both are used properly and all is normal with the person (chest straps will not work for me).

    But battery life of the watches is severely impacted by the HRM. The chest strap would have a separate battery so that would help in that case.

    My Apple Watch made it through my 4:24 marathon with plenty of breathing room, but I doubt it could make it much past 6 hours with HRM and GPS both running.

    So.. compared...

    Benefits of wrist: No extra devices, and no chest strap
    Benefits of Chest: Extra battery, and stays under clothes in cold weather

    So... it comes down to use case. I think given the "20-hour" run and the "-25 temps" the chest strap is the clear winner. IMO YMMV and all that :)
  • garygse
    garygse Posts: 896 Member
    With the talk of HRMs, I have the Garmin 235, and personally I like to use the HRM for all-day tracking so that I can see what my resting HR is. But when it comes to running, I use the Scosche Rhythm armband, which is worn much higher up on the arm (I wear mine on the upper forearm). That also means I can wear my watch over the layers of clothing in the winter, and a little looser during my summer runs. I haven't tried a chest strap yet, but I have a very strong feeling that it would bug the heck out of me while offering another chafing point to keep in mind (of course, as I haven't tried it, I may be missing out on the greatest thing ever). But for what I need, so far I've found the Scosche to be very good.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    Riddle me this...


    I ran for 1 hour 3 minutes and 39 seconds. In that time I covered 6.55 miles. I somehow turned off auto pause in RunKeeper by mistake. So RunKeeper reports a 9:43 pace. The math works.

    Strava reports 56:47 "moving time" and yields a pace of 8:41.

    Which is more correct? In other words, which should I be using t judge my progress by? I do not really think I lost 7 minutes to traffic lights and what not, but maybe I did. Seems too high at a guess.

This discussion has been closed.

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