June 2017 Running Challenge

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Replies

  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    @ctlaws44 - Easy running is good for getting better, assuming you aren't hurt so bad that you can't run at all. From your description, I'd advise 1) run fewer miles than what got you injured, and 2) run all the miles easy until you're confident the hamstring is back. Oh yeah, and 3) stop running if it starts hurting.

    Taking it easy might mean solo running where you can control the pace. Or it might mean group running where you know the group will hold a pace that is easy for you. It might mean avoiding a group run if you think there's a chance the group will suck you into running faster than you should. And unless you have a lot better self control than I do, it means absolutely no races.

    Still, a diet of all easy running till you get better beats being confined to the couch or cycling and seeing other people running.

    I would add to @MobyCarp 's excellent advise... If you can't run with proper form, it's better to just rest. If your pain forces you to run "funny" then you're going to end up compensating and hurt something that wasn't meant to be used the way you ended up using it.

  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    @ctlaws44 - Easy running is good for getting better, assuming you aren't hurt so bad that you can't run at all. From your description, I'd advise 1) run fewer miles than what got you injured, and 2) run all the miles easy until you're confident the hamstring is back. Oh yeah, and 3) stop running if it starts hurting.

    Taking it easy might mean solo running where you can control the pace. Or it might mean group running where you know the group will hold a pace that is easy for you. It might mean avoiding a group run if you think there's a chance the group will suck you into running faster than you should. And unless you have a lot better self control than I do, it means absolutely no races.

    Still, a diet of all easy running till you get better beats being confined to the couch or cycling and seeing other people running.

    I would add to @MobyCarp 's excellent advise... If you can't run with proper form, it's better to just rest. If your pain forces you to run "funny" then you're going to end up compensating and hurt something that wasn't meant to be used the way you ended up using it.

  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    WhatMeRunning wrote: »
    I had a crazy busy weekend and am doing offsite training this week so I have not been able to check in since last Friday. Over 12 new pages and over 300 posts! Yikes! Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to catch up, and things might continue like that through Friday. :flushed:

    I have been working on my 5k pace endurance most recently. My Sunday run was just to run easy for at least 5k of a 4 mile route. I made it through that 5k running the whole way in 37:31. Today I did a faster pace over the same route, running the first 1.5 miles straight through, then doing fartlek intervals over the remaining distance to finish the 4 miles. I reached 5k on today's run in 37:12, so faster overall than last time for that stretch. I pushed for the last quarter mile of that 5k distance though, so that helped.

    That is still well below my estimated 5k time based on my mile time, so I'm still not really finding my target pace of 10:35 for a 5k all that realistic in just the next couple weeks. I'll still try on that upcoming 5k on 7/4, there's no stopping that attempt (I hope). I am seeing my ability to do a mile in my predicted time now, something I wasn't able to do before. So hopefully I can close this 5k gap without too long of a wait.

    @WhatMeRunning - Have you tried shorter intervals at your desired 5K pace? In my experience, people training for 5K performance don't just go out and run a bunch of 3.1 mile segments at 5K pace, which is about I (interval) pace in the Jack Daniels system. They'll do workouts like 4x800 at I with 200 recovery, or 4x1000 at I with 200 recovery, or something like the I pyramid I won't be running on July 4: 800 at I, 1000 at I, 1-2 x 1200 at I, 1000 at I, 800 at I, all with same time recovery. "Same time recovery" means that if it takes you 5:17 to run 800m, you take 5:17 recovery as a slow jog or standing around, whatever your body needs. Then you run the 1000, trying to hold the target pace, then take however much time it took you to run the 1000 as your next recovery interval.

    The idea is that you build your endurance without beating yourself up as much as replicating a race every time you run fast. You pull out all the stops on race day, and just run the 5K as hard as you can; but the interval training should (among other things) accustom you to what the target pace feels like.

    Yeah, I know. I've said several times that 5K is like a simple interval workout, 1 x 5K at I pace. But that's coming from the perspective of training for a marathon, where running 2 mile, 3 mile, and 4 mile intervals isn't all that uncommon. Most of those long intervals are at T pace (slower than I); but they still build mental toughness for treating a 5K as just another interval. I think the longest training interval at I pace I've seen is 1600m, and that doesn't roll around very often.


    I agree with Moby on running 5K pace for 400 or 800 m intervals. Running 3 miles at 5K pace is basically racing. If you want to do that, then actually sign up for a race. But it's a horrible workout.

    As far as running 5K pace for 2, 3, or 4 miles, that sounds more like a tempo run just as Moby was suggesting. I agree that running those would be better at threshold pace. Even for marathon training. A 20-40 minute stretch at threshold pace is a great workout. Or running cruise intervals at slightly faster than threshold pace.

    Remember, if you can run 4 miles at 5K pace, then that is not your real 5K pace. 5K pace means you are ready to drop dead after running that pace after 3.1 miles.
  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    ctlaws44 wrote: »
    @MobyCarp I was hoping you were on here. Thank you for the wisdom! I bumped up from averaging 37ish per over 4 weeks to 53 completely violating the 10% rule. As you can see from above they were all easy paced miles but miles are still miles. I got caught up in this run challenge at work. I'm going to go for a bike ride this evening then try to run with the group Wednesday. There's enough people at different paces where I won't feel like I have to keep up with the pack. My ego's taken enough of a hit with this injury that I'm just happy to be out and running no matter how slow. Thanks again!

    I would say in general, "the 10% rule" is probably one that shouldn't be strictly enforced. However, point taken. You increased way too fast in a short period of time.

    In my blog about training plans I discuss in #7 about mileage building. It's hard to state that one rule on this works best for everyone. Some will do well with 10% increases each week. Others will do better with 1 mile per week increases or every 2 weeks. Especially if you're injury prone, mileage increases should be slower. Others can be even more aggressive than 10% per week. Point is, your body usually will tell you when you're doing too much and that you should back off or quit for the day.
  • katharmonic
    katharmonic Posts: 5,720 Member
    KatieJane83 wrote: »
    Sunday was my Bay of Fundy International HM, which I somehow PR'd! I will be doing a little bit of a race report with a few pics, hopefully in the near future, so for those who like race reports, keep your eyes peeled!

    Congrats on your PR @KatieJane83! Looking forward to your race report to hear how it was - it sounds like such a cool race. And great job on beating your June mileage goal!


    Date :::: Miles :::: Cumulative
    06/01/17 :::: 2.4 :::: 2.4
    06/02/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 2.4
    06/03/17 :::: 8.4 :::: 10.7
    06/04/17 :::: 3.1 :::: 13.9
    06/05/17 :::: 3.3 :::: 17.2
    06/06/17 :::: 3.5 :::: 20.7
    06/07/17 :::: 5.0 :::: 25.7
    06/08/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 25.7
    06/09/17 :::: 3.6 :::: 29.3
    06/10/17 :::: 7.8 :::: 37.0
    06/11/17 :::: 7.5 :::: 44.5
    06/12/17 :::: 2.8 :::: 47.4
    06/13/17 :::: 4.0 :::: 51.4
    06/14/17 :::: 2.6 :::: 53.9
    06/15/17 :::: 3.3 :::: 57.2
    06/16/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 57.2
    06/17/17 :::: 8.5 :::: 65.7
    06/18/17 :::: 3.3 :::: 69.0
    06/19/17 :::: 3.4 :::: 72.4
    06/20/17 :::: 5.6 :::: 77.9
    06/21/17 :::: 3.0 :::: 80.9
    06/22/17 :::: 0.0 :::: 80.9
    06/23/17 :::: 3.0 :::: 84.0
    06/24/17 :::: 3.2 :::: 87.1
    06/25/17 :::: 8.0 :::: 95.2
    06/26/17 :::: 2.5 :::: 97.7
    06/27/17 :::: 4.9 :::: 102.5
    Goal = 100 miles

    And my goal is met too, with days to spare. Tonight's workout was a 20-minute tempo run. Adding in warm-up and cool-down, plus sprints, it came to 4.89 miles. We almost made it through before the downpour, but not quite. And it was kind of chilly too, so soaking wet on the cool-down didn't feel the greatest. But then as we were stretching out there was a beautiful full rainbow - and we could see both ends touch the ground. One of the guys in the group said it was god's promise that we would never have to do tempo again. :p (I also saw a double rainbow on the way home - so pretty).

    I feel really good after tonight's run. So much better than my 5k on Saturday and long run on Sunday. Not sure if it made a difference or not, but I did some extra stretching beforehand, including 7 minute pre-run yoga video.


  • Stoshew71
    Stoshew71 Posts: 6,553 Member
    mk2fit wrote: »
    So I found this thread at almost the end of the month. I am not a huge runner, but in my little world, I am a runner. I've run 115 miles this month. Not whiz-bang awesome, but, there ya go. I am just shy of 500 miles for the year. This time last year, I was at almost 1000. Oh, the joy of injuries...

    I run at a 9.25ish pace, which seems pretty cool. I do not run in races; only in my back yard (farm). BTW I am a 58 yr. old female ex smoker who has been running for just shy of two years.

    Awesome. Excellent testimony. Welcome!!! We do this every month. Feel free to hang with us for the rest of this month and join us next month. I will send out a link for the new challenge in a few days in this thread.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    mk2fit wrote: »
    So I found this thread at almost the end of the month. I am not a huge runner, but in my little world, I am a runner. I've run 115 miles this month. Not whiz-bang awesome, but, there ya go. I am just shy of 500 miles for the year. This time last year, I was at almost 1000. Oh, the joy of injuries...

    I run at a 9.25ish pace, which seems pretty cool. I do not run in races; only in my back yard (farm). BTW I am a 58 yr. old female ex smoker who has been running for just shy of two years.

    115 miles in one month is not "little world" at all. Many people in this thread have goals of less than that. Some of us, myself included, put more than 50 a week in. This thread has all levels, as will the one next month. :)

    Welcome!
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    cburke8909 wrote: »
    I started my full-marathon training today. The first workout was a 3X1600 speed workout. I did each of the 1600 at less than 8:00 per mile the first at 7:40. Total workout ended with 7.3 miles of total run. The plan I using calls for only 3 runs a week. A speed workout, a tempo run and a distance run, I may add in one more recovery run of fair distance, and allow myself the occasional Thursday summer 5k race.

    @cburke8909 - Three runs a week, all quality workouts, sounds like a crazy plan to train for a marathon. Are you sure it doesn't intend for you to add easy miles on the non-specified days to support the quality workouts? It would make a lot more sense for a plan to specify the workouts you describe, give you a weekly target mileage, and let you make up the difference between the specified workouts and the weekly target with easy runs of your choice.
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    @cburke8909 I have to say I am with @MobyCarp on this one. What training plan is this?
  • MobyCarp
    MobyCarp Posts: 2,927 Member
    June Running Totals (miles)
    6/1 – 8.25 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/2 – rest day
    6/3 – 12.18 solo + group run
    6/4 – 7.21 easy with fast finish
    6/5 – 7.07 easy
    6/6 – 11.05 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/7 – 7.38 group run
    6/8 – 5.33 warm up, easy speed work, cool down
    6/9 – 3.01 warm up + McMullen Mile
    6/10 – 15.01 group run 6 + solo run 9
    6/11 – 10.01 hot and sunny
    6/12 – 10.06 hot with hills
    6/13 – 8.64 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/14 – 10.04 easy
    6/15 AM – 5.05 easy with rain
    6/15 PM – 4.88 commute, time trial, cheering laps
    6/16 – rest day
    6/17 – 13.32 paced run for 8 + extra miles
    6/18 – 12.03 warm up, race, easy run
    6/19 – 9.77 easy
    6/20 – 8.38 warm up, speed work, cool down
    6/21 – 10.22 easy
    6/22 – 0.86 aborted warmup and easy run test
    6/23 – rest day
    6/24 – 10.62 paced run, easy run test
    6/25 – 8.01 easy 60 minutes
    6/26 – 8.00 easy
    6/27 – 8.38 warm up, speed work, cool down

    June total to date – 214.76

    Nominal Challenge Goal – 230 miles
    Real Goals: Stay healthy. Train toward Rochester Marathon. Run McMullen Mile in under 5:50 on June 9. [Done, 5:44.9] Run Medved 5K to Cure ALS in under 20:00 on June 18. [Done, 19:32]

    Today's notes – Today was cool and spring-like. When I got to club practice, it was 64º F (18º C) with 64% relative humidity. After some summer-like weather, it felt almost like I needed a jacket until I started running.

    The club is starting a new emphasis on injury prevention. They brought in a PT, who explained that the drills we have been doing before workouts are really designed as preparation for races and speed workouts. But we've had several members get hamstring and groin injuries. So we got professional help for exercises to prevent injury. We went through 8 or 10 exercises reminiscent of phys ed, only with better explanation of why we were doing them. I was a bit surprised that they weren't too awfully hard. A couple were trivially easy for me, most were a bit challenging, none were so far beyond my capability as to be comical. I could tell that what I've been doing on my own has done a good job of developing and maintaining core strength and balance. Okay, to be fair "on my own" includes the results from a couple rounds of physical therapy addressing issues I've had from running; I just haven't had groin or hamstring issues yet.

    There was a workout on the board for an October marathon. It looked very similar to the workout in the plan I'm following, but with an additional 800 at T at the start. After spending a bunch of time between the warm up and the workout proper on the injury prevention stuff, I was cooled down a bit. It seemed reasonable to start out with that 800 at T to warm up properly for what I find to be a challenging workout:

    1x800 at T
    4x200 at R w/200 recovery
    3x600 at R w/400 recovery
    4x200 at R w/200 recovery

    I lived through it. Afterwards, I thought to myself that any workout including 3x600 at R would be an appropriate time to wear an "Embrace the Suck" shirt. I might have to order one. But I don't need it right away; this is the last workout this training cycle that has that much work at R pace. And at least I didn't have to run it at 85º F!

    Because the workout was longer than what I'd planned my week with, I cut the cool down a bit short. Stretched, drank some Nuun, and on the drive home felt my right Achilles muttering as I pressed the gas pedal. Hmm. Maybe the hard speed work bothers it more than the hills? Oh, well. Just have to do as well as I can day to day and week to week. Easy run tomorrow, and nothing faster than T on Thursday. I might be okay.

    Just have to get those cone touches in every day. Injury prevention may be a boring topic to the teenagers, but at my age it seems critically important.

    2017 races:
    January 1, 2017 Freezeroo #2 (Resolution Run 7.5 mile) (Mendon, NY) Finished in 50:45
    January 7, 2017 Winter Warrior Half Marathon (Gates, NY) Finished in 1:32:40
    January 14, 2017 Freezeroo #3 (Pineway Ponds Park 5 mile) (Spencerport, NY) Finished in 33:42
    January 28, 2017 Freezeroo #4 (Hearnish 5 mile) (Victor, NY) short course, finished 4.88 miles in 32:50
    February 4, 2017 USATF Cross Country National Championship Masters 8K (Bend, OR) Finished in 35:39, team won the 60+ Men's cross country championship
    February 11, 2017 Freezeroo #5 (Valentines Run "In Memory of Tom Brannon" 8 Mile) (Greece, NY) sat out due to training schedule
    February 25, 2017 Freezeroo #6 (White House Challenge 4.4 mile) (Webster, NY) short course, finished 4.34 miles in 27:51
    March 11, 2017 Johnny's Runnin' of the Green 5 mile (Rochester, NY) finished in 33:25
    March 18, 2017 USATF Masters 8K Championship (Shamrock 8K, Virginia Beach, VA) finished in 30:59, PR for 8K
    April 17, 2017 Boston Marathon (Hopkinton, MA) finished in 3:49:42
    April 30, 2017 USATF Masters 10K Championship (James Joyce Ramble, Dedham, MA) finished in 39:54, PR for 10K
    May 21, 2017 Lilac Run 10K (Rochester, NY) finished in 40:04
    May 27, 2017 Canandaigua Classic Half Marathon (Canandaigua, NY) finished in 1:33:06
    June 9, 2017 Charlie McMullen Mile (Fairport, NY) finished in 5:44.90, PR for mile
    June 18, 2017 Medved 5K to Cure ALS (Rochester, NY) finished in 19:32
    July 4, 2017 Firecracker Four Mile (Fairport, NY)
    July 15, 2017 Shoreline Half Marathon [1:40 pacer] (Hamlin, NY)
    July 28, 2017 Karknocker 5K (East Rochester, NY)
    September 3, 2017 Oak Tree Half Marathon (Geneseo, NY)
    September 17, 2017 MVP Rochester Marathon (Rochester, NY)
    November 23, 2017 Race with Grace 10K (Hilton, NY)
  • MNLittleFinn
    MNLittleFinn Posts: 4,271 Member
    6/1- REST
    6/2- 5.2 Miles
    6/3- 19
    6/4- 4.3
    6/5- 4.2
    6/6- 3.2
    6/7- 8.0
    6/8- REST
    6/9- 3.2
    6/10- 9
    6/11- REST
    4/12- 4.0
    6/13- REST
    6/14- 5
    6/15- REST
    6/16- 3.1
    6/17- 26.2
    6/18- REST
    6/19- REST
    6/20- REST
    6/21- 5.1
    6/22- 5.1
    6/23- REST
    6/24- 8.7
    6/25- 5
    6/26- REST
    6/27- 5.5

    Total: 123.8

    Goal for June. Finish Marathon training well, taper well and run Grandma's well
    Nominal mileage goal: 100

    Today's notes: Hello, my name is MNLittleFinn and I am a Trailoholic. Today was one of those days where things didnt quite work out the whole day. First my school's OCR team was supposed to meet foe a 5k walk/run.... and I was the only one to show up. Then my little guy wasn't feeling well, so my HR was high for me (77-85 bpm) most of the day. And, finally when I went to run, for a trail run with folks from the running club, nobody else showed up!

    I got my 5.5 miles. My HR was way too high, ideas hot and humid. The run really nailed me, and with over 600 feet of elevation, it's no wonder my HR was high, it was a tough one..but I got it done.

    I did manage sub-12 for the run.... and I'm glad, my buddy cancelled on me for tomorrow morning, so i don't have to w sorry about another killer workout in under 12 hours.

    2017 Races Scheduled
    6/16- William A Irvin 5k
    6/17- Grandma's Marathon 4:24:06
    7/15- Eugene Curnow Trail Marathon
    8/19- Rampage at the Ridge 5k OCR
    9/23- Ely Marathon (full)
    10/21 Wild Duluth 50k
    11/23- TBD 5k Turkey Trot

    Have a runderful day all
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    I'm posting earlier than expected... ended up with a problem while hiking in Glacier National Park... water filter became plugged on the first night. I ended up hiking out to the easiest/closest trailhead (11.3 miles from camp) and hitch-hiking back to my car. Depressing since I've been planning this trip for a long time. :(

    6/1 - 5.20 miles (also starting a diet change to increase carbs slightly)
    6/2 - rest
    6/3 - 9.00 painful and slow miles in sweltering heat with the sun beating down
    6/4 - rest
    6/5 - 5.25 miles not as hot as Sat., but still hot (need to stop making excuses for slow pace)
    6/6 - 5.37 miles - early am, so started out dark, but nice and cool out
    6/7 - 5.00 miles (early am, nice and cool again... had to add some distance to get up to the full 5 miles)
    6/8 - 13.18 miles (started out 3am and tired along with GI distress, terrible pace but stuck with it - improved as I got to the last few miles - average total pace 11:13)
    6/9 - rest (backpacking in evening, not counting non-running miles)
    6/10 - rest (backpacking, not counting non-running miles)
    6/11 - rest (backpacking, not counting non-running miles)
    6/12 - 6.60 miles, fairly warm, totally new area while traveling for work, slow average pace
    6/13 - 6.93 miles, still warm, new area (paved trails mostly today), slow - need to work on that speed
    6/14 - 6.12 miles, not quite as warm, but 74% humidity still was tough - still slow
    6/15 - rest
    6/16 - rest
    6/17 - 14.30 miles... hot, slow pace. Stopped and re-filled my water bottle 3 times.
    6/18 - rest
    6/19 - 6.19 miles - plan was for 7 miles, but got started late because I woke up with low BG (46 mg/dl). Still could have done 7 miles, but ended early because the stuff I ate for the low BG was causing some issues.
    6/20 - 6.83 miles. Good pacing, so almost no walking. Still slower than I want, but at least kept pace more even.
    6/21 - Unplanned rest day. Plan was for 7 miles on a traveling (driving) day. Fell behind on driving schedule and not feeling well anyway. Stomach upset due to poor nutrition on the road and dehydration (worsened by sickness).
    6/22 - 3.07 miles. Got up before sunrise and banged out some miles on the dreadmill. Not enough, so I'm still behind schedule a bit. I need about 2 more miles + the HM on Sat. to reach goal (no running after the HM because I'll be backpacking).
    6/22B - 3.03 miles on a trail. Not high quality miles... still nutritional issues.
    6/23 - Rest
    6/24 - Glacier National Park Half Marathon (2:10:07)
    6/25 - Rest (Backpack Glacier National Park 18.2 miles 3K+ elevation up, 3K+ elevation down)
    6/26 - Rest (Backpack Glacier National Park, 11.3 miles)
    6/27 - Rest

    exercise.png
  • T1DCarnivoreRunner
    T1DCarnivoreRunner Posts: 11,502 Member
    edited June 2017
    double post
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    @cburke8909 I have to say I am with @MobyCarp on this one. What training plan is this?


    I'm guessing it's this one - https://www.runnersworld.co.uk/health/the-first-three-day-a-week-marathon-schedule

    If so, I'd ask why add an easy run when the plan is specifically designed as it is and should be followed?
  • cburke8909
    cburke8909 Posts: 990 Member
    @MobyCarp @PastorVincent and @girlinahat that's the plan she listed. The reason for additional run is because it's lack of runs makes me less than 100% confident in the plan. I like the three workouts quality but I think at least one more easy day of running makes more sense. I would even think 2 easy runs a week wouldn't hurt. I think the designer of the plan is emphasizing recovery and rest, which can come from those intentional slow paced runs. The plan suggests two additional workouts a week.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
    cburke8909 wrote: »
    @MobyCarp @PastorVincent and @girlinahat that's the plan she listed. The reason for additional run is because it's lack of runs makes me less than 100% confident in the plan. I like the three workouts quality but I think at least one more easy day of running makes more sense. I would even think 2 easy runs a week wouldn't hurt. I think the designer of the plan is emphasizing recovery and rest, which can come from those intentional slow paced runs. The plan suggests two additional workouts a week.

    But it's a plan that has been tested AS IS. It may make more sense to you to add in an extra easy workout, but isn't the whole point of the plan that you SHOULDN'T add in an extra run? if you add in runs, you are no longer following the plan.

    I would follow it as it is set for a period of say 6-8 weeks and see what improvements you can get. Add in easy runs after that if you are not seeing improvement
  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    girlinahat wrote: »
    cburke8909 wrote: »
    @MobyCarp @PastorVincent and @girlinahat that's the plan she listed. The reason for additional run is because it's lack of runs makes me less than 100% confident in the plan. I like the three workouts quality but I think at least one more easy day of running makes more sense. I would even think 2 easy runs a week wouldn't hurt. I think the designer of the plan is emphasizing recovery and rest, which can come from those intentional slow paced runs. The plan suggests two additional workouts a week.

    But it's a plan that has been tested AS IS. It may make more sense to you to add in an extra easy workout, but isn't the whole point of the plan that you SHOULDN'T add in an extra run? if you add in runs, you are no longer following the plan.

    I would follow it as it is set for a period of say 6-8 weeks and see what improvements you can get. Add in easy runs after that if you are not seeing improvement

    I am a frim believer that not every plan will work for every person. All plans need some degree of personalization. Second, now that I have read the plan I feel better about it. It calls for 3 days running and two days cross training. It gives up one run to gives more time to the cross training and I think that could be a good thing. I am pretty sure it is a universal truth that runners do not cross train enough. :smiley:

    There are plans out there that are bad, and I thought this for one I read about recently that many experts had said was horrible. I do not recall the details so do not ask me to link it. :smiley: Suffice to say it was not this one.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
    PastorVincent wrote: »
    girlinahat wrote: »
    cburke8909 wrote: »
    @MobyCarp @PastorVincent and @girlinahat that's the plan she listed. The reason for additional run is because it's lack of runs makes me less than 100% confident in the plan. I like the three workouts quality but I think at least one more easy day of running makes more sense. I would even think 2 easy runs a week wouldn't hurt. I think the designer of the plan is emphasizing recovery and rest, which can come from those intentional slow paced runs. The plan suggests two additional workouts a week.

    But it's a plan that has been tested AS IS. It may make more sense to you to add in an extra easy workout, but isn't the whole point of the plan that you SHOULDN'T add in an extra run? if you add in runs, you are no longer following the plan.

    I would follow it as it is set for a period of say 6-8 weeks and see what improvements you can get. Add in easy runs after that if you are not seeing improvement

    I am a frim believer that not every plan will work for every person. All plans need some degree of personalization. Second, now that I have read the plan I feel better about it. It calls for 3 days running and two days cross training. It gives up one run to gives more time to the cross training and I think that could be a good thing. I am pretty sure it is a universal truth that runners do not cross train enough. :smiley:

    There are plans out there that are bad, and I thought this for one I read about recently that many experts had said was horrible. I do not recall the details so do not ask me to link it. :smiley: Suffice to say it was not this one.

    I agree that not every plan will work for every person (I am a runner who has....no real plan). However, to reject the letter of the plan on the basis that someone is 'not 100% convinced of its efficacy' given that the designers of the plan have tried and tested it with elite runners, and the rejectee is not an expert....seems a bit....premature. To reject something out of hand also calls into question the very existence of scientific testing and experts.

    Not trying to be too critical, but hardly fair on the designers of the said plan?

  • PastorVincent
    PastorVincent Posts: 6,668 Member
    girlinahat wrote: »
    I agree that not every plan will work for every person (I am a runner who has....no real plan). However, to reject the letter of the plan on the basis that someone is 'not 100% convinced of its efficacy' given that the designers of the plan have tried and tested it with elite runners, and the rejectee is not an expert....seems a bit....premature. To reject something out of hand also calls into question the very existence of scientific testing and experts.

    Not trying to be too critical, but hardly fair on the designers of the said plan?

    I can only speak for myself, but I did not reject the plan. I asked for more information as the plan sounded suspicious. To not question and accept information blindly is a dangerous game, even for "not an expert."

    Looking back, @MobyCarp said it sounded "crazy to him" and asked for more information. These are reasonable statements when you are given something that conflicts with what you already know.

    If you were to tell me you had a 1969 VW Bug that could do 0-60 in 2.1 seconds, as tested by experts, I would say "that jars with what I understand about cars, so I would like more information before I accept it." - That is reasonable. That is the same position I took on the plan until I had the opportunity to read it.

    That does not "call into question the very existence of scientific testing and experts," - in truth it keeps with the spirit of said testing.
  • garygse
    garygse Posts: 896 Member
    @Orphia Nice job on getting the Fenix 5! My birthday is only a few weeks after my marathon, so I think at that point I'll get the FR 935 that I've been eyeing up...similar to the Fenix 5, but housed in the finest plastic cheapsters like me can buy! (Nah, I just prefer the weight...or lack of...of the FR watches).

    @BruinsGal_91 Congrats on nailing your goal!


    So today's run was supposed to be done easy, which I did, but I found it pretty hard going towards the end. The reason for that was that although temps were relatively cool at 73F, humidity was at 89%, which is a pretty good way to feel completely drained at the end of a run. If it stays like this, I'm sooooo not looking forward to Friday's long run, but with that one, and if I can do 11 miles tomorrow, I should see this month out at 300 miles.

    01 - 11.39
    02 - 21.12
    05 - 13.44
    06 - 10.73
    07 - 13.43
    08 - 11.43
    09 - 21.15
    12 - 5.66
    13 - 13.16
    14 - 7.10
    15 - 10.33
    16 - 13.52
    17 - 11.27
    19 - 13.52
    20 - 9.10
    21 - 13.55
    22 - 11.14
    23 - 20.95
    26 - 13.53
    27 - 9:05
    28 - 13.54

    Total: 268.11 / 225 miles
  • ctlaws44
    ctlaws44 Posts: 182 Member
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    @ctlaws44 - Easy running is good for getting better, assuming you aren't hurt so bad that you can't run at all. From your description, I'd advise 1) run fewer miles than what got you injured, and 2) run all the miles easy until you're confident the hamstring is back. Oh yeah, and 3) stop running if it starts hurting.

    Taking it easy might mean solo running where you can control the pace. Or it might mean group running where you know the group will hold a pace that is easy for you. It might mean avoiding a group run if you think there's a chance the group will suck you into running faster than you should. And unless you have a lot better self control than I do, it means absolutely no races.

    Still, a diet of all easy running till you get better beats being confined to the couch or cycling and seeing other people running.

    I would add to @MobyCarp 's excellent advise... If you can't run with proper form, it's better to just rest. If your pain forces you to run "funny" then you're going to end up compensating and hurt something that wasn't meant to be used the way you ended up using it.

    Thanks for the reminder @Stoshew71. I do have to concentrate a lot more on my form when I force myself to run slower. I tend to get hunched over and lazy with my limbs.
  • girlinahat
    girlinahat Posts: 2,956 Member
    @PastorVincent - it was not you I was referring to. I'm questioning @cburke8909 for his adding more runs without having actually tried it as it is.

    wouldn't you want to give the 1969 VW Bug a thorough test drive?
  • SpiritHippo
    SpiritHippo Posts: 53 Member
    ddmom0811 wrote: »
    Boston was awesome - 3 wonderful runs!
    Sorry - no time to catch up and see what's been going on in here. Way over my mileage and still got a few days running left!

    Back in Orlando and getting ready for my trip to Barcelona/Italy/Germany - leaving Thursday. I've laid out piles of running clothes and lingerie.
    Apparently I think I'll be running and then just hanging out in the room with hubby. Need to figure out the other clothes now.

    6/1- travel day
    6/2 - 5 miles
    6/3- 4.6 miles
    6/4- 4.2 miles + 18 miles cycling on rented bike
    6/5- 5 miles
    6/6 - 5.5 miles
    6/7 - 6.1 miles
    6/8 - 5.4 miles
    6/9 - travel day
    6/10 - 43 miles cycling
    6/11 - 44 miles cycling
    6/12 - 5 miles running
    6/13 - 5 miles
    6/14 - 5 miles
    6/15 - strength training
    6/16 - 5 miles on the boardwalk in Hollywood
    6/17 - 5 miles same as yesterday
    6/18 - 4 miles same as last two days
    6/19 - 4 miles
    6/20 - 5 miles
    6/21 - strength training
    6/22 - 5 miles
    6/23 - 4 miles
    6/24 - 6 miles
    6/25 - 4 miles
    6/26 - rest day
    6/27 - 5 miles


    exercise.png

    What part of Italy are you visiting? We just got back from Florence, Venice and Rome (or Firenze, Venezia, Roma more accurately) and it was shorts or capris every day. Some nights I needed a light sweater. Rome was hot, hot, hot. We were always traveling as much as possible by foot. Capris are clutch because a lot of the sights require you to be dressed a little more conservative than you might on a typical hot day. I didn't see a single person wearing any type of athletic clothes except those running their routes through town! I say bring some cute tops with short sleeves or no sleeves that are dressy enough that you could pop in for dinner or a museum and then just have a light cardigan just in case. If you are traveling south of Rome it will be a lot hotter. Plan on wearing your hair up!
  • BruinsGal_91
    BruinsGal_91 Posts: 1,400 Member
    ddmom0811 wrote: »
    Boston was awesome - 3 wonderful runs!
    Sorry - no time to catch up and see what's been going on in here. Way over my mileage and still got a few days running left!

    Back in Orlando and getting ready for my trip to Barcelona/Italy/Germany - leaving Thursday. I've laid out piles of running clothes and lingerie.
    Apparently I think I'll be running and then just hanging out in the room with hubby. Need to figure out the other clothes now.

    @ddmom0811 Boston is indeed awesome. In fact, you'll have to come back in October and run the Tufts Women's 10k.
  • SpiritHippo
    SpiritHippo Posts: 53 Member
    ctlaws44 wrote: »
    Stoshew71 wrote: »
    MobyCarp wrote: »
    @ctlaws44 - Easy running is good for getting better, assuming you aren't hurt so bad that you can't run at all. From your description, I'd advise 1) run fewer miles than what got you injured, and 2) run all the miles easy until you're confident the hamstring is back. Oh yeah, and 3) stop running if it starts hurting.

    Taking it easy might mean solo running where you can control the pace. Or it might mean group running where you know the group will hold a pace that is easy for you. It might mean avoiding a group run if you think there's a chance the group will suck you into running faster than you should. And unless you have a lot better self control than I do, it means absolutely no races.

    Still, a diet of all easy running till you get better beats being confined to the couch or cycling and seeing other people running.

    I would add to @MobyCarp 's excellent advise... If you can't run with proper form, it's better to just rest. If your pain forces you to run "funny" then you're going to end up compensating and hurt something that wasn't meant to be used the way you ended up using it.

    Thanks for the reminder @Stoshew71. I do have to concentrate a lot more on my form when I force myself to run slower. I tend to get hunched over and lazy with my limbs.

    I know this feeling. Every time this happens during a run I can hear the voice of an elementary teacher telling me to sit up straight or stand up straight! I have to remind myself to straighten up, shoulders back and down, and relax. Sometimes when I'm not paying attention to it, I tense my neck and traps so bad that I get headaches after.

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