Can't lose weight and build muscle simultaneously

CiaIgle

SezxyStef wrote: »

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CiaIgle wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

annaskiski wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).

So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.

When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.

When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.

Surely you did not ask me

Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".

I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly muscle and less fat) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.

Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.

My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.

doing some form of resistance training is important regardless ...might not be a progressive overload program following macros etc but use it or lose it.

Yes, absolutely, but who does that should not expect good results. In my opinion (humble always ) there are two reasons to do training during the weight loss journey:
- To eat back some of the calories lost or to increase the weight loss rate (in my case I manage to lose 1 Kilo a week during the first months). I decided not to eat back the calories (it was tough)
- To be healthier.

To achieve the first reason, I guess IMHO that there is only one way: Cardio, and among all "cardios" the lowest impact ones (to reduce discouraging injuries), so spinning, zumba, eliptical, etc.

When your heart starts feeling good, then I could suggest to may things "funnier" like add some impact (jogging, treadmill, HIIT) and adding resistance.

I think what most miss with the strength training aspect is that is what you are doing...getting stronger which is never a bad thing.

For example I found MFP because I googled 30 day shred which has some body weight work...

which led me to small dumbbells which led me to lifting heavy which has led me to where I am today...strong, slim and probably with a bit more muscle than I had last year due to recomp.

then came the cardio...

Let me add that I ended up kinda hating cardio, too much sweating and suffering in the gym. I stopped any cardio training since I want to "demonstrate myself" that I don't need to burn tons of calories and sweat like a pig to keep my weight. So far so good

I am now in maintenance since 2 months (today exactly 2 months). And now I count macros and do weight training (I decided to start with SL 5x5). In SL 5x5 the first 4 to 6 weeks is relatively easy, so no sweat and little cals burnt. Now I am in the more challenging loads and sweating a little making big efforts.

And like you, I am planning to re-take cardio, more specifically running.

Carlos_421

stanmann571 wrote: »

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Carlos_421 wrote: »

jseams1234 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

jseams1234 wrote: »

... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.

not sure what you are trying to say here...

you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...

Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.

edit: and a recomp is a different creature - since we are no longer talking about a deficit.

Outside of cases involving newbie gains, obese individuals or PEDs, I certainly won't argue that gaining muscle while losing fat is reasonably doable for the average person.

But...who says that newbie gains don't last??? Why wouldn't they??

Because you hit a plateau...And then the gains stagnate.

You don't lose the strength, you stop getting the gains at newbie rates.

But you don't lose those gains is what I'm saying. The statement made seemed to imply that "newbie gains" are only temporary as in they would not just slow, but dissipate, which isn't so. As long as the routine continues, the gains made will remain.

Froggyh

CiaIgle wrote: »

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annaskiski wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).

So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.

When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.

When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.

Surely you did not ask me

Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".

I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly fat and less muscle) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.

Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.

My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.

Yes, losing weight can be difficult, but it's more difficult without strength training. Or, rather, losing *fat* is more difficult without strength training. If you're not using your muscles to lift things, your body is going to use them up for energy, meaning that, sure, you might be losing 1lb a week, but where that could be 1lb of fat a week if you're lifting weights, instead it's about 0.75lb of fat and 0.25lb of muscle.

SezxyStef

Froggyh wrote: »

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CiaIgle wrote: »

annaskiski wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).

So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.

When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.

When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.

Surely you did not ask me

Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".

I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly fat and less muscle) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.

Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.

My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.

Yes, losing weight can be difficult, but it's more difficult without strength training. Or, rather, losing *fat* is more difficult without strength training. If you're not using your muscles to lift things, your body is going to use them up for energy, meaning that, sure, you might be losing 1lb a week, but where that could be 1lb of fat a week if you're lifting weights, instead it's about 0.75lb of fat and 0.25lb of muscle.

now in all honesty....you will lose muscle regardless...I am not sure that there is a protocol out there that allows for only fat loss while in a deficit.

stanmann571

Carlos_421 wrote: »

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stanmann571 wrote: »

Carlos_421 wrote: »

jseams1234 wrote: »

SezxyStef wrote: »

jseams1234 wrote: »

... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.

not sure what you are trying to say here...

you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...

Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.

edit: and a recomp is a different creature - since we are no longer talking about a deficit.

Outside of cases involving newbie gains, obese individuals or PEDs, I certainly won't argue that gaining muscle while losing fat is reasonably doable for the average person.

But...who says that newbie gains don't last??? Why wouldn't they??

Because you hit a plateau...And then the gains stagnate.

You don't lose the strength, you stop getting the gains at newbie rates.

But you don't lose those gains is what I'm saying. The statement made seemed to imply that "newbie gains" are only temporary as in they would not just slow, but dissipate, which isn't so. As long as the routine continues, the gains made will remain.

The statement was "newbie gains don't last forever" Which is true.

Froggyh

SezxyStef wrote: »

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Froggyh wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

annaskiski wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).

So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.

When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.

When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.

Surely you did not ask me

Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".

I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly fat and less muscle) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.

Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.

My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.

Yes, losing weight can be difficult, but it's more difficult without strength training. Or, rather, losing *fat* is more difficult without strength training. If you're not using your muscles to lift things, your body is going to use them up for energy, meaning that, sure, you might be losing 1lb a week, but where that could be 1lb of fat a week if you're lifting weights, instead it's about 0.75lb of fat and 0.25lb of muscle.

now in all honesty....you will lose muscle regardless...I am not sure that there is a protocol out there that allows for only fat loss while in a deficit.

True. I was oversimplifying it, but the point stands: strength training in a deficit helps preserve muscle mass and, therefore, ensures that more of the weight lost comes from fat (which is what the average person is talking about when they talk about weight loss).

CiaIgle

SezxyStef wrote: »

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Froggyh wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

annaskiski wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).

So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.

When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.

When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.

Surely you did not ask me

Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".

I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly fat and less muscle) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.

Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.

My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.

Yes, losing weight can be difficult, but it's more difficult without strength training. Or, rather, losing *fat* is more difficult without strength training. If you're not using your muscles to lift things, your body is going to use them up for energy, meaning that, sure, you might be losing 1lb a week, but where that could be 1lb of fat a week if you're lifting weights, instead it's about 0.75lb of fat and 0.25lb of muscle.

now in all honesty....you will lose muscle regardless...I am not sure that there is a protocol out there that allows for only fat loss while in a deficit.

I guess there is not. In deficit you will lose fat AND muscle, and in surplus you will gain fat AND muscle, that's always. The idea is to gain/lose in the right proportion. The ideal state is losing fat/maintain muscle or gain muscle/maintain fat, that I guess is almost impossible to achieve. In theory is not possible to lose fat/gain muscle at the same time.

firef1y72

CiaIgle wrote: »

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annaskiski wrote: »

CiaIgle wrote: »

When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).

So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.

When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.

When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.

Surely you did not ask me

Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".

I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly fat and less muscle) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.

Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.

My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.

I've lost 44% of my bodyweight so far and although I did do a small amount of resistance work for the first 6 months, I wish I'd done lots more heavy lifting from the start instead of waiting. It may have slightly slowed my weight loss, but it's done far more for my body than the masses of cardio I was doing. So as someone who has actually been in the position of needing to lose more than 25% of their bodyweight, I'd say incorporate heavy (for you) compound lifting asap, and that is what I recommend when people ask how I've managed to turn my life around.

whisker1984

Can attest that I have been building muscle while losing fat with weight training and HIIT, but my BMI is around 50 so definitely obese, as someone mentioned. The body composition measurements and the way I feel and the way my clothes fit all tell me I've been doing something right, even if the scale is moving a little slower than it might without the muscle gain. So far, so good!