Can't lose weight and build muscle simultaneously
Jayj180894
Posts: 286 Member
So, I've learnt that you can't build muscle if you're eating in a deficit unless you're being really really extreme (hours of working out a day) Does this mean when I'm having a rubbish week and eating in a surplus I'm going to be building muscle? Cos when I do have a rubbish week and eat in a surplus I do still workout and do mainly do weight training. Could this be a possible reason why the scale isn't moving but feeling slimmer? Some weeks I'm really good and eat in a deficit for 10 days straight, then may have a rubbish 5 days and eat in a surplus. Note: when eating in a surplus I do make sure I have all my protein needs and still eat healthy.
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Replies
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You build muscle over time not by having a random calorie surplus. It takes consistency to build muscle, more than likely the scale isn't moving because of water weight.13
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Fair enough0
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Jayj180894 wrote: »Fair enough
We all want the water weight to be muscle you are not alone. You can add me a friend if you would like, my diary is open to friends.1 -
You can build muscle and lose fat under the following conditions:
1. You're a beginner
2. You're obese
3. You start training again after a layoff
4. You use illegal drugs (not recommended)
If you meet any of the above conditions, it's possible to do both as long as you have a well-designed strength training program and you eat enough protein. You don't really need to work out for hours.
I've personally lost over 125 pounds while gaining muscle.
If you raise your calories while cutting, you look leaner because of 2 reasons:
1. Glycogen Replenishment: When dieting, your muscles look flat. When you eat more carbs, your muscles look fuller and may give you a leaner appearance.
2. Stress and Cortisol: While dieting, you stress levels will be high. This will make your body hold on to more water. When you start eating and get reduce stress, your body will let go of some of the water.
This is commonly observed when people have refeeds, cheat meals or diet breaks while dieting.
Hope this help!
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The testosterone can make it easier for men to increase muscle mass as well.
OP you can still see strength gains in a deficit. Many people confuse this with an increase in mass, but the two don't have to be married. You can improve the performance of your current muscles without increasing their size.5 -
You can build muscle on a deficit unless you already have lots of it.1
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you won't build muscle accidentally by eating a few extra calories and doing some random weight lifting.....muscle building in women is an extremely slow process...a woman doing everything right (diet, progressive lifting program) is fortunate to put on .5 to 1lb of muscle in a month - that is doing everything right! even then, it is not going to outpace fat loss if that is what you are asking regarding your weight not moving...8
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OP - Your will find your progression towards your goals (whatever they are) easier if you do all you can to have a consistent eating regime. Although one blow out is not going to wreck your progress regularly failing to stick to plan probably signals something is wrong with that plan.
10 days "on" and 5 days "off" is not as good as 15 days "on" even when that "on" is less aggressive.
So, take a look at your goals and your daily calorie target and think about how you can modify those to create something that you can stick to for weeks or months.
If you find that some situations or foods trigger poor dietary compliance, take a look at what types of strategy you could employ to avoid these situations or at least reduce the damage (note: I'm not necessarily talking about avoiding foods you lie here -one valid option is to plan those foods into your diet but in moderation).
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When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).
So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.
When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.
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I'm on week 12 of Leangains, and it has been amazing for building muscle while still losing fat...might be worth looking into if that is your goal and you are already strength training.0
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Muscleflex79 wrote: »you won't build muscle accidentally by eating a few extra calories and doing some random weight lifting.....muscle building in women is an extremely slow process...a woman doing everything right (diet, progressive lifting program) is fortunate to put on .5 to 1lb of muscle in a month - that is doing everything right! even then, it is not going to outpace fat loss if that is what you are asking regarding your weight not moving...
I didn't realize how slow, but just had a body comp assessment done (4 months after my first) - result, 1lb lean muscle gain and 3.5% BF loss - admittedly I wasn't lifting like I needed to to gain muscle, but I could see the body changes (in my legs leaning out)4 -
I'm gonna disagree, you can in fact build muscle while eating defiect. Consistency is the only facter. I was deep in an eating disorder at a point and i tell you what, i had a six pack going and leg and arm muscles going on. I worked out. Put the work in for it and just like that, i had the muscles. Note: I'm doing much better these days eating food. But the point is, you just gotta put in the work and it'll happen.3
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I'm gonna disagree, you can in fact build muscle while eating defiect. Consistency is the only facter. I was deep in an eating disorder at a point and i tell you what, i had a six pack going and leg and arm muscles going on. I worked out. Put the work in for it and just like that, i had the muscles. Note: I'm doing much better these days eating food. But the point is, you just gotta put in the work and it'll happen.
Yes but chances are jsut because you can see the muscle doesn't mean you built new muscle...chances are you revealed what you had by losing fat.
Building muscle for a woman is hard in a surplus let alone a deficit.
consistency helps but you need a progressive load lifting program and enough protein and then if you are in a deficit it has to be a small one or at maintenance.10 -
tcunbeliever wrote: »I'm on week 12 of Leangains, and it has been amazing for building muscle while still losing fat...might be worth looking into if that is your goal and you are already strength training.
it doesn't though ...
how are you measuring these "gains"?3 -
Jayj180894 wrote: »So, I've learnt that you can't build muscle if you're eating in a deficit unless you're being really really extreme (hours of working out a day) Does this mean when I'm having a rubbish week and eating in a surplus I'm going to be building muscle? Cos when I do have a rubbish week and eat in a surplus I do still workout and do mainly do weight training. Could this be a possible reason why the scale isn't moving but feeling slimmer? Some weeks I'm really good and eat in a deficit for 10 days straight, then may have a rubbish 5 days and eat in a surplus. Note: when eating in a surplus I do make sure I have all my protein needs and still eat healthy.
nope, you need a consistent surplus to gain muscle, as in like three months...3 -
When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).
So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.
When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.
I'm going to disagree with this entirely. When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.
Losing weight means that you typically lose both fat and muscle. The number one reason to lift while cutting is to preserve as much muscle mass as you can. Remember more muscle = can eat more/look much better.
Esp for a woman, building muscle is much harder. Its much easier to preserve what you have by lifting, then try to build it back up later. (you may need to do a 'bulk' cycle later. )
OP, look at the maintenance/recomp threads if you're having trouble sticking to a cut. Maybe try cutting for a week, then just running TDEE for a week? You might find that easier to live with. (Though I agree with the above poster who said to run with a smaller deficit)
Here's a good thread for inspiration:
http://community.myfitnesspal.com/en/discussion/977538/halp-heavy-lifting-made-me-supah-bulky/p1
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... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
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jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.
edit: and a recomp is a different creature - since we are no longer talking about a deficit.0 -
jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.
a recomp is done at a small deficit or at maintenance.
teen boys, after being fit at one point and returning...
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jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.
a recomp is done at a small deficit or at maintenance.
teen boys, after being fit at one point and returning...
A recomp is done at maintenance and is VERY slow... and now you are talking about the effects of muscle memory - also short-term and not sustainable.... not sure what you are arguing about. Go back to post 5. I think we've just covered everything said there except for the use of gear. lol0 -
I'm gonna disagree, you can in fact build muscle while eating defiect. Consistency is the only facter. I was deep in an eating disorder at a point and i tell you what, i had a six pack going and leg and arm muscles going on. I worked out. Put the work in for it and just like that, i had the muscles. Note: I'm doing much better these days eating food. But the point is, you just gotta put in the work and it'll happen.
Well, you can't really. Because....well,.... because science. The conditions where one can are very specific and even then, very limited.2 -
jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.
a recomp is done at a small deficit or at maintenance.
teen boys, after being fit at one point and returning...
A recomp is done at maintenance and is VERY slow... and now you are talking about the effects of muscle memory - also short-term and not sustainable.... not sure what you are arguing about. Go back to post 5. I think we've just covered everything said there except for the use of gear. lol
no a recomp can be done at a slight deficit as well...
and it doesn't matter if they are short lived and/or sustainable or very slow...it can be done and making definitive statements to the negative or being ambiguous with statements will bring forth those who are clarifying those statements.
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jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.
edit: and a recomp is a different creature - since we are no longer talking about a deficit.
Outside of cases involving newbie gains, obese individuals or PEDs, I certainly won't argue that gaining muscle while losing fat is reasonably doable for the average person.
But...who says that newbie gains don't last??? Why wouldn't they??0 -
Carlos_421 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »jseams1234 wrote: »... it's like trying to save money when you are spending your entire paycheck and then using your credit cards.
not sure what you are trying to say here...
you can build muscle and lose fat at the same time...
Yes, under very specific conditions and it's not generally sustainable. Newbie gains don't last forever and if you are very obese the ability to gain muscle and lose fat decreases the more weight you lose. The reason to lift while in a deficit, as a few have stated in this thread, is to try and maintain as much of your LBM as you can.
edit: and a recomp is a different creature - since we are no longer talking about a deficit.
Outside of cases involving newbie gains, obese individuals or PEDs, I certainly won't argue that gaining muscle while losing fat is reasonably doable for the average person.
But...who says that newbie gains don't last??? Why wouldn't they??
Because you hit a plateau...And then the gains stagnate.
You don't lose the strength, you stop getting the gains at newbie rates.2 -
annaskiski wrote: »When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).
So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.
When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.
When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.
Surely you did not ask me
Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".
I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly fat and less muscle) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.
Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.
My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.
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annaskiski wrote: »When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).
So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.
When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.
When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.
Surely you did not ask me
Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".
I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly muscle and less fat) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.
Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.
My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.
doing some form of resistance training is important regardless ...might not be a progressive overload program following macros etc but use it or lose it.0 -
annaskiski wrote: »When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).
So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.
When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.
When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.
Surely you did not ask me
Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".
I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly muscle and less fat) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.
Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.
My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.
doing some form of resistance training is important regardless ...might not be a progressive overload program following macros etc but use it or lose it.
Yes, absolutely, but who does that should not expect good results. In my opinion (humble always ) there are two reasons to do training during the weight loss journey:
- To eat back some of the calories lost or to increase the weight loss rate (in my case I manage to lose 1 Kilo a week during the first months). I decided not to eat back the calories (it was tough)
- To be healthier.
To achieve the first reason, I guess IMHO that there is only one way: Cardio, and among all "cardios" the lowest impact ones (to reduce discouraging injuries), so spinning, zumba, eliptical, etc.
When your heart starts feeling good, then I could suggest to may things "funnier" like add some impact (jogging, treadmill, HIIT) and adding resistance.
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I'm gonna disagree, you can in fact build muscle while eating defiect. Consistency is the only facter. I was deep in an eating disorder at a point and i tell you what, i had a six pack going and leg and arm muscles going on. I worked out. Put the work in for it and just like that, i had the muscles. Note: I'm doing much better these days eating food. But the point is, you just gotta put in the work and it'll happen.
you most likely had visible abs and muscle because your body fat was low enough to show it...doesn't mean you put on muscle mass while "deep in an eating disorder"2 -
I think what most miss with the strength training aspect is that is what you are doing...getting stronger which is never a bad thing.annaskiski wrote: »When I started my weight loss journey I did not even though of taking care of what kind of weight I am loosing.
When I was more or less 5 Kilos away from my goal, I started to worry about how I look and started being worried about not loosing muscle. BUT EVEN THEN, I did nothing about it. In case you have no experience, the closer you are to your target weight the harder it gets (reduction of BMR so less calories or less effect in the balance).
So my advise after loosing 27 kilos and now maintaining then (actually 26, I guess I recovered 1 Kilo of mostly lean mass): it's going to be hard JUST to loose any weight, so focus on that and pay minor attention to muscle, fat, water.
When you are getting closer to your goal, you will have enough stimuli and willing to start thinking in those details.
When people who've successfully lost weight are asked what they would do differently, almost all of them say that they wish that they would have started lifting earlier.
Surely you did not ask me
Loosing weight (specially when the goal is to reduce more than 25% of Starting Weight) is difficult. Is still more difficult in the "last mile".
I even can suggest that looking for too much goals (losing mostly muscle and less fat) can increase the level of stress and effort that will end discouraging some people.
Starting with weights the right way (compose, progressive load, eating more proteins in deficit, proper technique, etc) creates a huge extra parameters in the ecuation that will make the weight loss journey very uphill in relation with the results.
My suggestion is to focus in weight losing only (calorie deficit only), and start adding dimensions (macro split, right training programs, supplements, etc.) only when you are close to the Target Weight.
doing some form of resistance training is important regardless ...might not be a progressive overload program following macros etc but use it or lose it.
Yes, absolutely, but who does that should not expect good results. In my opinion (humble always ) there are two reasons to do training during the weight loss journey:
- To eat back some of the calories lost or to increase the weight loss rate (in my case I manage to lose 1 Kilo a week during the first months). I decided not to eat back the calories (it was tough)
- To be healthier.
To achieve the first reason, I guess IMHO that there is only one way: Cardio, and among all "cardios" the lowest impact ones (to reduce discouraging injuries), so spinning, zumba, eliptical, etc.
When your heart starts feeling good, then I could suggest to may things "funnier" like add some impact (jogging, treadmill, HIIT) and adding resistance.
For example I found MFP because I googled 30 day shred which has some body weight work...
which led me to small dumbbells which led me to lifting heavy which has led me to where I am today...strong, slim and probably with a bit more muscle than I had last year due to recomp.
then came the cardio...0
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