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Do you think that gluten, lactose, or {insert supposed food intolerance here} is really just a fad?
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harrietmaley wrote: »This is a really interesting discussion - I've had three people I know who haven't ever had an issue with gluten with diagnosed with an allergy against it, and avoid it on the orders of the doctors even though it didn't bother them before... A little odd.
As for Lactose, I used to love all things dairy but don't touch the stuff now because it's just not something I want to put in my body knowing certain things I do (I lead a plant based diet), but supposedly 70% of the world is lactose intolerant - it raises the question are we meant to actually be digesting these things that everyone is becoming allergic to?
It gives us food for though (pardon the pun!).
What things do you know? ... and did you learn about them in "What the Health?"
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harrietmaley wrote: »but supposedly 70% of the world is lactose intolerant - it raises the question are we meant to actually be digesting these things that everyone is becoming allergic to?
This is a misunderstanding of what those stats mean.
Humans originally tended to be lactose intolerant after childhood (like most animals who did not consume milk subsequently). We did have occasional milk (we'd eat all parts of an animal killed and if the animal was lactating we'd get milk). Eventually, people in some areas (probably areas where other foods were less available at certain times of year, who knows) and at some point AFTER we started domesticating animals for other purposes, decided to make dairy a stable dietary source. This probably started with things like fermented milk which pose less of an issue, but some humans had mutations that gave them lactase persistence (lactase being the enzyme that allows infants to digest lactose in milk), but developed into milk being part of the diet.
Humans from areas where dairy is longstanding almost all are able to consume lactose (have lactase persistence -- these are genes we can test for). Interestingly (to me, anyway), the specific genes are different in different areas (specifically in Europe vs. parts of Africa where milk is consumed), probably due to different mutations being more common and being selected for.
70% is not "everyone becoming allergic" -- it's because in some populous parts of the world (like East Asia, including China, about half of India, and parts of the Middle East and Africa) almost everyone is lactose intolerant. To contrast, people from northern, western, and central Europe are extremely unlikely to be lactose intolerant, the numbers are traditionally something like 5% in the UK, Sweden, so on, although they are getting more common as the populations become more diverse. (The traditional diet of Ireland pre potato was very heavily dairy based, for one example.) You can look at in-between areas and see the increasing numbers of people who are or are not as you go from one to the other.
I don't drink milk, but I know it doesn't bother me, and I think the fact that I have the mutation is kind of cool, and know my family likely comes from a long line of people for whom dairy was an important dietary resource. I think we can make choices not to consume milk or dairy for whatever reason without spreading misinformation about it.4 -
I never thought about it that way, that is quite cool - I was confused as to why supposed 70% were meant to be yet I only know 1 person with an intolerance to lactose. Evolution in black and white.
Also @jseams1234 I haven't seen it! I keep getting told to though - its on my list, although I fear I'll never be able to have a cheeky dairy milk if I do...1 -
harrietmaley wrote: »I never thought about it that way, that is quite cool - I was confused as to why supposed 70% were meant to be yet I only know 1 person with an intolerance to lactose. Evolution in black and white.
Also @jseams1234 I haven't seen it! I keep getting told to though - its on my list, although I fear I'll never be able to have a cheeky dairy milk if I do...
Don't waste your time. Pretty much everyone - including/especially vegans, just not those directly involved in the film - who have seen it recognize it for the huge pile of horse manure it is.2 -
I presume I have a gluten sensitivity at this stage. My mother was diagnosed medically as celiac after years of gut problems. We turned to a fully gluten-free diet for the household and suddenly I was no longer jet propelling myself out of a chair or having to open up the house from the smell. I found that if I ate non-GF food outside the house I was soon heading for the closest toilet. Unfortunately, since she died I can no longer afford GF products on my income so the problems are coming back. My tested blood levels, when checked, showed that I could end up celiac as I get older so will keep an eye on it. I have a friend who is lactose intolerant and she would wish the full effects on you if you told her it was all in her mind. Some people do it because though they don't have a diagnosis they just feel much better when they eat that way. It is your body so why not make it feel as good as it can. Sorry, but adulterated GM food was not good for the test animals why would you think humans would be any different. Natural selection makes sure it dies out if it works the wrong way through no-one using it. GM is done for patents and profit, nothing else.4
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Steven Gundry, MD, has a book out. I've not read it but according to Gundry, the "70% of the world is allergic to dairy" means they are allergic to a certain type of dairy protein. According to Gundry, US cows are different than European cows. Europe's cows are "A2" protein producing cows exclusively. It's hypothetically thought that this is why the French eat more cheese than anywhere in the world yet have less heart disease (but more cancer because they smoke like chimneys!).
American Dairy is A1/A2. Our cows have the spots on them. The fact that the cows have the spots is the sign (typically) that they are A1 and A2 both. We react (again according to Gundry) from the A1 proteins. This is why many people that are lactose intolerant have no issues with sheep/goat milk. Sheep/goat milk is A2 proteins exclusively too.
There is now available (in most grocery stores) A2 milk. It's more expensive but only the A2 variety proteins (from the same types of cows in Europe). There's a yogurt company in OH that is now producing exclusively A2 yogurt from grass fed cows.3 -
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Sorry not all European cows are a2, some are. Herds which are designated a2 are now identified by testing. There are 4 caseins in milk. Generally bovine is type 1 dominant, as you say sheep and goat is type 2 dominant, there are also types 3 and 4 in much less significant a presence in milks.
It can make a significant change to a person if they change milks, usually if all milk is totally avoided for 48 hours one will have experienced significant improvements, if it applies to yourself. Unfortunately it can take up to 6 months for someone to experience benefits when removing gluten from the diet.
Many people acquire problems and think, I've done this for a life time, its not that, but it can be.1 -
Sorry not all European cows are a2, some are. Herds which are designated a2 are now identified by testing. There are 4 caseins in milk. Generally bovine is type 1 dominant, as you say sheep and goat is type 2 dominant, there are also types 3 and 4 in much less significant a presence in milks.
It can make a significant change to a person if they change milks, usually if all milk is totally avoided for 48 hours one will have experienced significant improvements, if it applies to yourself. Unfortunately it can take up to 6 months for someone to experience benefits when removing gluten from the diet.
Many people acquire problems and think, I've done this for a life time, its not that, but it can be.
Thanks for the clarification. I haven't reacted to the book but found it interesting what I'm reading of it. Just wanted to clarify for others talking about the 70% of people being allergic to dairy. That's not completely true. It's 70% of people might react worse to certain types of milk proteins, depending on the cow producing that dairy.
I'd also like to know, at what point if you're an alleged "bandwagoner" do you go back to eating gluten if you react badly to it (and have never been determined as celiac)?
I own a smaller recruiting company in the Midwest. A guy my age owned another firm in town that did the same thing. He was told he was "gluten sensitive" and had digestive problems for years. Ended up going gluten free. Unfortunately, he got colon cancer before he quit gluten and died in his early 50s. Everyone was shocked when he passed because he was thin and took good care of himself. Before he passed, he blamed the misdiagnosis as causing his colon cancer. My wife was told the same thing (she's likely gluten sensitive but not celiac) but when she eats gluten, gets the immediate large, swollen stomach and pain.
So, at what point should people that get physically sick every time they eat gluten stop eating gluten just because they are appeasing the large number (as evidenced by this thread) of 'eye rollers'?? It's why most of the supposedly trendy people don't care what other's opinions are. Perhaps there are some out there that just give it up without any evidence of it causing harm. I'm one of them -- I do it to support my wife. You can roll your eyes at me personally all you want but there are a lot of people that all the ample evidence that they need. How their body physically (and immediately) reacts to it. It's when people roll their eyes at her that pisses me off.
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janejellyroll wrote: »LowCarb4Me2016 wrote: »I think its more important to ask one's self why the eating habits of others are so upsetting. Someone doesn't want to eat gluten and they're not Celiac - so what? Who or what are they harming by cutting out gluten? Considering the foods gluten is found in, they're probably cutting out a ton of calories void of any vitamins or minerals and, if doing things correctly, adding in more fruits and veggies. No one needs bread and cookies to survive. You may want them, sure, but that is not a need. Cutting out gluten (or carbs, or sugar, or fat, or whatever) is not the same thing as jumping on the latest diet pill craze and to equate the two is ludicrous. In my experience the people cutting out foods without a medical reason eventually revert back to eating whatever they were cutting out. Is it annoying when family does it? Sure, but those folks tend to be annoying anyway.
I don't think anyone cares if certain individuals want to cut gluten from their diet. The conflict (when it happens) usually arises when they use inaccurate or pseudoscientific reasoning to attempt to convince others to do the same.
That has not matched my experience at all, honestly. Both myself and my daughter are celiacs, diagnosed 8 years back. We don't care what other people eat. We're not trying to 'convert' anyone to our diet, you know? But I have been surprised by the number of people who get irritated our dietary choices.
We have been at restaurants, potlucks, picnics, and so on. All we have had to do to get a negative reaction is refuse a dish that contains gluten, usually with a smile and a quick, 'Thank you, it looks great, but we can't have gluten.'
Most of the time, people behave about how we would, which is no reaction at all, because seriously, how does someone else's food choice affect THEIR life, you know?
But then there are those folks who roll their eyes ostentatiously, or have snide, not-quite-under-their-breath comments about fad diets or people being ridiculous or stupid diet choices, or folks who will then proceed to tell us outright that we are following a fad diet and we're going to hurt our health and so on and so forth. And then there are those who react as though our comment on our diet was some kind of accusation/criticism of the wrongness their own diet and they start going on some defensive, odd discussion of why their diet is better and NOT unhealthy, and they lose TONS of weight on their diet.
Seriously, it's really weird. You would honestly think, as you mentioned, that no one cares. But for whatever reason, people quite frequently do.
I'm really sorry you have that experience, but I appreciate you sharing it with me.2 -
After doing some research on inflammation, I decided to try reducing gluten from my diet, was already eating so-called inflammation reducing foods (lots of green veggies), so I didn't put much credence that it would actually help, but thought it couldn't hurt. Other than whole wheat pasta and tortillas and my love of donuts, my Friday after workout treat, I didn't really eat a lot of gluten. So I didn't go out and buy a bunch of gluten-free foods except for instant oatmeal, which I find I like better anyway because it doesn't have all the sugar regular (even organic) instant oatmeal has, but for the most part I just eat naturally gluten-free foods.
Its only been a few weeks, but I do feel better, my arthritic knees feel better, even my skin looked better and my pants fit better. I'm not usually one to jump on a band wagon, I lost over a 100lbs basically eating mostly non-processed food, counting calories and lots of cardio, but as I've gotten older (currently in the throes of menopause), changed my focus from cardio to powerlifting and struggling to balance having to eat for strength while trying to maintain my weight isn't as easy.3 -
My brother and I are living proof that you most definitely CAN be fat and have coeliac disease.2
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You can only be diagnosed coeliac by eating gluten and then having the tests, meaning that if you already know it makes you ill, you have to knowingly eat something that makes you ill, just to get an official stamp saying "yes you're coeliac". I can entirely understand why people don't want to do that.3
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Of course not lol. I've lived with people with lactose intolerance and you always know when they had dairy after using the restroom
I don't do well with gluten (wheat) myself. If someone says they have a food intolerance, I always take it seriously. I know people allergic to the most bizarre things (avocado, watermelon, tomatoes, seafood). I wouldn't be surprised if some foods more frequently don't interact well with the body. 3 -
Histamine intolerance can cover the seafood and may be the Avacado that could be cross matched with salicylate intolerance which probably accounts for the watermellon and tomatoes though there could be ascorbic acid sentitivity in the mix. Its complexed. I'm coming to the conclusion these possibly are a consequence of issues in the Krebs Cycle, only it so much chemistry and things beyond me. Any good chemists on here?1
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My blood tests show that I have wheat, egg white and dairy intolerance.
I can definitely tell that my body does not tolerate anything that contains these products, because I get super bloated, tired and my eyes swell up.
For 1 year I almost 100% cut out these products and did the blood test again, the charts fell almost 50%. Now I just try to avoid them, but sometimes, when I don't have to go anywhere the next day, I will eat an ice cream and have puffy eyes the next day
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It is possible, were you to supplement with the enzymes needed to digest these specific proteins all could be well.
I can't remember the one for egg white but there is at least one supplement made by different companies. Likewise, for the dairy, it would be helpful for you to know it is the milk sugar, lactose or the protein - casein. One could try lactase enzyme for the lactose, I can't bring to mind the casein one. Again there are supplements available. I read somewhere, the proportion of our population over the age of 8 who become naturally intolerant of dairy is extremely high, this is the natural position. As a species we started to retain these enzymes because we started to store diary as cheeses, and other diary products for lean times.
As mentioned above you may be able to take goat and sheep diary better, the dominant casein is different which in many aids digestion of the lactose.
Its natural to resist the idea of relying on capsules or pills to cover one for these digestive issues when you have strong reactions in the first place, it seems too simple.1 -
Celiac disease is real and harsh for those who have it but I suspect that most who claim it are more likely lactose intolerant as are bodies stop producing the enzyme to digest milk in early childhood as we are supposed to be weaned by then. Only humans drink milk of another mammal and we shouldn't. Strongly linked to breast cancers11
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brasseur48 wrote: »Celiac disease is real and harsh for those who have it but I suspect that most who claim it are more likely lactose intolerant as are bodies stop producing the enzyme to digest milk in early childhood as we are supposed to be weaned by then. Only humans drink milk of another mammal and we shouldn't. Strongly linked to breast cancers
How on earth would anybody with a milk allergy mistake it for a gluten (grain-based) sensitivity?? That's a ridiculous stretch blatantly constructed to throw in your anti-milk bias. BTW, there's no time we're "supposed" to be weaned, a good proportion of the world's population retains the milk digesting enzyme as adults, and other animals will happily drink milk from any source when they can get it.
edited for clarity4 -
brasseur48 wrote: »Celiac disease is real and harsh for those who have it but I suspect that most who claim it are more likely lactose intolerant as are bodies stop producing the enzyme to digest milk in early childhood as we are supposed to be weaned by then. Only humans drink milk of another mammal and we shouldn't. Strongly linked to breast cancers
How on earth would anybody with a milk allergy mistake it for a gluten (grain-based) sensitivity?? That's a ridiculous stretch blatantly constructed to throw in your anti-milk bias. BTW, there's no time we're "supposed" to be weaned, a good proportion of the world's population retains the milk digesting enzyme as adults, and other animals will happily drink milk from any source when they can get it.
edited for clarity
They could be talking about (in a round about way) how many celiacs become lactose intolerant due to their intestinal damage. Lactase, the enzyme to digest lactose, is created in the microvilli of the small intestine which can be quite damaged in a celiac. Once a celiac is GF for some time (6 months to years) they may regain at better ability to digest dairy.
For me, it took about 2 years GF but I can now eat (low lactose) dairy, like cheese or sour cream, again.3 -
I have lactose intolerance (like people wrote here: all your friends know that you have it even if you are in denial1
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Do I "think" it's just a fad? Do I even care?
Whatever. I could give a crap what anybody else "thinks" about my personal medical quirks and/or dietary choices. And I don't spend any time at all trying to analyze other people's issues. Why should I?
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brasseur48 wrote: »Celiac disease is real and harsh for those who have it but I suspect that most who claim it are more likely lactose intolerant as are bodies stop producing the enzyme to digest milk in early childhood as we are supposed to be weaned by then. Only humans drink milk of another mammal and we shouldn't. Strongly linked to breast cancers
How on earth would anybody with a milk allergy mistake it for a gluten (grain-based) sensitivity?? That's a ridiculous stretch blatantly constructed to throw in your anti-milk bias. BTW, there's no time we're "supposed" to be weaned, a good proportion of the world's population retains the milk digesting enzyme as adults, and other animals will happily drink milk from any source when they can get it.
edited for clarity
They could be talking about (in a round about way) how many celiacs become lactose intolerant due to their intestinal damage. Lactase, the enzyme to digest lactose, is created in the microvilli of the small intestine which can be quite damaged in a celiac. Once a celiac is GF for some time (6 months to years) they may regain at better ability to digest dairy.
For me, it took about 2 years GF but I can now eat (low lactose) dairy, like cheese or sour cream, again.
That person seemed to be saying that people who THINK they are celiac but aren't really are lactose intolerant, not that celiac can make you lactose intolerant. Maybe he/she thinks people mostly eat grains with dairy? It doesn't make sense to me -- I think both celiac and lactose intolerance are real (of course!), but not that they would be confused for each other, although I think what you are saying makes sense.1 -
There is annoyance and resentment and anger around gluten free as a fad. As the op said that they don’t resent people who go off gluten due to medically diagnosed food allergies, I felt moved (pun) to chime in that doctors miss nutrition-based illness sometimes. I spent years having chronic gastro intestinal and dermatological issues that my doctors didn’t catch as food sensitivity. My symptoms: pooping 5+ times every day accompanied by severe abdominal pain and bloody stools that came back negative for whatever doctors look for in that mess, resultant inability to participate in normal daily life, and painful hives on my palms and nights in bed feeling as if I was crawling with insects. I finally found a nutrition doctor’s book and read about my symptoms and discovered how to self-diagnose for food sensitivities, and WOW all my symptoms disappeared when I stopped eating gluten and dairy. Some folks will engage me about my food restrictions by asking why I don’t eat gluten “What happens if you eat gluten?” - and I can hear the suspicion in their tone sometimes. I usually say “You don’t want to know.” I don’t know why other people stop eating gluten - maybe some don’t say it is because they suffered like hell. Thank goodness for gluten free food companies and dairy free too!4
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Both are real, but Gluten only affects a very tiny percentage of the population, the rest just jumped on the bandwagon. Southpark did an awesome episode on it. Season 18 Ep 2 - Gluten Free Ebola1
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I've known several that never brought it up until a reason for it came up - food at a gathering or meal and they were pressed to try this or that by who ever made it.
They explained what they don't eat and why, (some tested, some self-tested), and that was it.
They may have gotten in to their swaps, or difficulties originally, or mistakes.
I've known others that look for opportunities to bring it up in a poorly related manner of sounding like this is really going to benefit me if I'd only try it, all those were self-tested IIRC, and from listening not very scientifically minded to do a good test either. Playing frogger with nothing but conclusion to jump to.
Almost as if they needed to justify to me or sell me on why they are eating the way they do, perhaps because many had doubted them before, and they were just thrilled to be free of the problems they had. And thinking back, I don't recall food even being eaten at the time to be the reason for it coming up.2 -
I think more people are becoming aware of the concept which is why more people are discovering they might have these intolerances.
Personally just a few weeks ago I discovered that I most likely have mild dairy intolerance (not sure if it's lactose or some other aspect of dairy). I never thought it would be a possibility for me. My ancestry on both sides is from ethnic groups that have historically eaten a lot of dairy products. My mom was obsessed about us not getting enough calcium for some reason and we would have a large glass of milk with both breakfast and dinner and often cheese for lunch and/or dinner as well.
However, when I was a kid I had gas all the time. My abusive mother would mock me for it and even escalate to the point of yelling at me about it, as if it was something I could control or as if I was doing it on purpose. I always felt horrible about myself and that I was a disgusting and inherently defective person. Never was it ever suggested that this was not a normal thing and could be the result of a food intolerance. I only learned as an adult that it wasn't normal and was probably due to a digestive issue. I don't know if that's because people didn't really know about food intolerances back then, or if my mom just preferred to have yet another thing to shame me about rather than actually doing something to fix it.
Anyway, I always hated the taste of milk and so into my teenage years I stopped drinking it and would have cheese and yogurt instead, and fewer servings of dairy per day in general. My mom was not happy about this and would tell me that I was going to get osteoporosis. Eventually she started buying soymilk as well which I really enjoy. During this period of time my gas issues also reduced. I still had some issues, but not as much as when I was a kid. I thought maybe it was just something I was "growing out" of.
My husband and I became vegetarian a couple of years ago and I got more into researching nutrition in general. One thing I realized was that my husband was lactose intolerant. He didn't even realize he was, but I realized that after he ate a lot of dairy products (he's the kind of person who will binge and have half a quart of milk or something like that at one time) he would get very bad gas. He is from an ethnic group where lactose intolerance is somewhat prevalent. I later learned that a lot of people are mildly dairy intolerant without realizing it, and that a lot of people only learn they are after reducing dairy consumption for other reasons. At that point I began to wonder whether I was dairy intolerant without realizing it, considering my lifelong digestive issues. As I began monitoring it more, I did realize that I would get gas and digestive discomfort after eating dairy products.
Therefore, I have now greatly reduced my consumption of dairy products. I used to have 1-2 servings of dairy per day after going vegetarian and now I have it maybe once or twice a week. I have definitely noticed a difference. I haven't been formally diagnosed with a doctor because honestly it hasn't really been a priority, but I do know that this is the response my body has had to these dietary changes.3 -
saw this and wanted to comment.. but it is not even worth my time.2
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@JASONDEANGELOX wrote: »Both are real, but Gluten only affects a very tiny percentage of the population, the rest just jumped on the bandwagon. Southpark did an awesome episode on it. Season 18 Ep 2 - Gluten Free Ebola
wow I'm glad we are getting our news from SouthPark.4 -
Don't know much about gluten intolerance but I know lactose intolerance is real. I love my dairy and milk products but if I drink too much I get seriously bad stomach issues. I didn't have this problem until I got older. I would probably drink a gallon of milk every 2 to 3 days. Now that I am not drinking as much milk or if I drink lactaid free milk I don't have these problems so much anymore. I have a gastroenterologist I see on a regular basis for stomach and esophagus issues.0
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