Stiff Legged Deadlifts/RDL's work hamstrings?

Rammer123
Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
edited November 20 in Fitness and Exercise
Does anyone think that they get a hamstring workout from doing RDL's or stiff legged exercises?

I'm not sure how that would be possible and it seems like everyone calls it a hamstring exercise
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Replies

  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
    It is a hamstring exercise. Think were, if you have poor flexibility, where it pulls when you try to touch your toes.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    What do you think it is?

    Think about the movement.

    There is no contraction in your hamstring through the movement. Your hamstring is being stretched, it's not contracting. Literally the opposite of what a contraction would be.
  • Mycophilia
    Mycophilia Posts: 1,225 Member
    To quote Mr. smartypants Greg Nuckols from his extensive article on the deadlift:
    You have three hamstrings muscles – the biceps femoris, the semitendinosus, and the semimembranosus – but for our purposes here, they have essentially the same purpose and can just be treated as one muscle, except for the short head of the biceps femoris, which we don’t really even need to discuss (since it only functions as a knee flexor). They all originate on the ischial tuberosity and insert just below the knee near the top of the tibia and fibula. Since they cross both the hip and the knee, they cause both hip extension (which you want when pulling a deadlift) and knee flexion (which you don’t want when trying to pull a deadlift). Since their insertion is farther from the hip than it is the knee (the internal moment arm is longer at the hip), though, they produce a larger hip extensor moment than knee flexor moment when they contract.

    And to add a bit of personal experience, a couple of training cycles ago I had programmed way too much RDL volume at the beginning of the cycle which resulted in about 10 days of "OMG THE DOMS" in my hamstrings and pretty mild doms in my glutes/lower back.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    Shawshankcan wrote: »
    It is a hamstring exercise. Think were, if you have poor flexibility, where it pulls when you try to touch your toes.

    That's like saying to work your quads you can just stretch them really hard. Or to work your triceps you just hold a dumbbell behind your head and let it stretch your triceps
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    Mycophilia wrote: »
    To quote Mr. smartypants Greg Nuckols from his extensive article on the deadlift:
    You have three hamstrings muscles – the biceps femoris, the semitendinosus, and the semimembranosus – but for our purposes here, they have essentially the same purpose and can just be treated as one muscle, except for the short head of the biceps femoris, which we don’t really even need to discuss (since it only functions as a knee flexor). They all originate on the ischial tuberosity and insert just below the knee near the top of the tibia and fibula. Since they cross both the hip and the knee, they cause both hip extension (which you want when pulling a deadlift) and knee flexion (which you don’t want when trying to pull a deadlift). Since their insertion is farther from the hip than it is the knee (the internal moment arm is longer at the hip), though, they produce a larger hip extensor moment than knee flexor moment when they contract.

    And to add a bit of personal experience, a couple of training cycles ago I had programmed way too much RDL volume at the beginning of the cycle which resulted in about 10 days of "OMG THE DOMS" in my hamstrings and pretty mild doms in my glutes/lower back.

    I agree, but there's a lot less hip extension in stiff legged and RDL's compared to a conventional deadlift. Even then, there's a lot more glute activation for any hip extension.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    Mycophilia wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    Shawshankcan wrote: »
    It is a hamstring exercise. Think were, if you have poor flexibility, where it pulls when you try to touch your toes.

    That's like saying to work your quads you can just stretch them really hard. Or to work your triceps you just hold a dumbbell behind your head and let it stretch your triceps

    What I think you're forgetting is that your hamstrings are stretched at the bottom, so when you stand up to lockout your hamstrings are contracting.

    Your hamstrings are contracting during knee flexion and hip extension when your upper body is in a fixed position.

    Also during still legged deadlifts, your knees are locked out the entire way, and with RDL's there is a slight bend in your knees a that doesn't change until the hip extension is completed
  • jennybearlv
    jennybearlv Posts: 1,519 Member
    I feel it in my glutes too, but mostly my hamstrings. Where do you feel your muscles work in a deadlift?
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    jennybearlv wrote: »
    I feel it in my glutes too, but mostly my hamstrings. Where do you feel your muscles work in a deadlift?

    I'm talking about an RDL/Stiff legged deadlift
  • Mycophilia
    Mycophilia Posts: 1,225 Member
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    Mycophilia wrote: »
    To quote Mr. smartypants Greg Nuckols from his extensive article on the deadlift:
    You have three hamstrings muscles – the biceps femoris, the semitendinosus, and the semimembranosus – but for our purposes here, they have essentially the same purpose and can just be treated as one muscle, except for the short head of the biceps femoris, which we don’t really even need to discuss (since it only functions as a knee flexor). They all originate on the ischial tuberosity and insert just below the knee near the top of the tibia and fibula. Since they cross both the hip and the knee, they cause both hip extension (which you want when pulling a deadlift) and knee flexion (which you don’t want when trying to pull a deadlift). Since their insertion is farther from the hip than it is the knee (the internal moment arm is longer at the hip), though, they produce a larger hip extensor moment than knee flexor moment when they contract.

    And to add a bit of personal experience, a couple of training cycles ago I had programmed way too much RDL volume at the beginning of the cycle which resulted in about 10 days of "OMG THE DOMS" in my hamstrings and pretty mild doms in my glutes/lower back.

    I agree, but there's a lot less hip extension in stiff legged and RDL's compared to a conventional deadlift. Even then, there's a lot more glute activation for any hip extension.

    Actually there's more hip extension in stiff-legged vs conventional. With straight knees you have to bend over farther at the hips to reach the bar.
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    Mycophilia wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    Shawshankcan wrote: »
    It is a hamstring exercise. Think were, if you have poor flexibility, where it pulls when you try to touch your toes.

    That's like saying to work your quads you can just stretch them really hard. Or to work your triceps you just hold a dumbbell behind your head and let it stretch your triceps

    What I think you're forgetting is that your hamstrings are stretched at the bottom, so when you stand up to lockout your hamstrings are contracting.

    Your hamstrings are contracting during knee flexion and hip extension when your upper body is in a fixed position.

    Also during still legged deadlifts, your knees are locked out the entire way, and with RDL's there is a slight bend in your knees a that doesn't change until the hip extension is completed

    I'm not quite sure what you're getting at.
  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    Shawshankcan wrote: »
    It is a hamstring exercise. Think were, if you have poor flexibility, where it pulls when you try to touch your toes.

    That's like saying to work your quads you can just stretch them really hard. Or to work your triceps you just hold a dumbbell behind your head and let it stretch your triceps

    Think about how you stretch your chest, you stretch in the opposite way that you lift. Same with back. Hamstrings are the same. They are used to bend your leg and to stand up straight..
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    It's a glute exercise
  • Mycophilia
    Mycophilia Posts: 1,225 Member
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    It's a glute compound exercise

    FTFY
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    Mycophilia wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    It's a glute compound exercise

    FTFY

    So is a standing calf raise haha
  • jennybearlv
    jennybearlv Posts: 1,519 Member
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    jennybearlv wrote: »
    I feel it in my glutes too, but mostly my hamstrings. Where do you feel your muscles work in a deadlift?

    I'm talking about an RDL/Stiff legged deadlift

    All variations of a deadlift. It's not like keeping your knees straight or starting at the top is using completely different muscle groups.
  • jemhh
    jemhh Posts: 14,261 Member
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    But, you use your hammies to pull the weight up with RDLs. I can't figure out if you're just arguing to argue or if you are honestly asking. Maybe you just do them wrong. I dunno.

    I'm guessing it's the latter. If a person does them right it is very easy to feel them in the hammies.
  • VintageFeline
    VintageFeline Posts: 6,771 Member
    Quick question, if your hammies aren't activated, what exactly is getting you standing upright?
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,988 Member
    Just in case OP says to Google it like always:

    Eccentric contractions are currently a very popular area of study for three main reasons: First, much of a muscle's normal activity occurs while it is actively lengthening, so that eccentric contractions are physiologically common (Goslow et al. 1973; Hoffer et al. 1989) Second, muscle injury and soreness are selectively associated with eccentric contraction (Figure 2, Fridén et al. 1984; Evans et al. 1985; Fridén and Lieber, 1992). Finally, muscle strengthening may be greatest using exercises that involve eccentric contractions. Therefore, there are some very fundamental structure-function questions that can be addressed using the eccentric contraction model and eccentric contractions have very important applications therapeutically to strengthen muscle.

    http://muscle.ucsd.edu/musIntro/contractions.shtml


    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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  • SonyaCele
    SonyaCele Posts: 2,841 Member
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    What do you think it is?

    Think about the movement.

    There is no contraction in your hamstring through the movement. Your hamstring is being stretched, it's not contracting. Literally the opposite of what a contraction would be.

    your hams should be fully activated for this movement. how do you think the bar gets up? its a hamstring and glute movement

    17j25wlr247a.jpg
  • not_a_runner
    not_a_runner Posts: 1,343 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    What do you think it is?

    Think about the movement.

    There is no contraction in your hamstring through the movement. Your hamstring is being stretched, it's not contracting. Literally the opposite of what a contraction would be.
    Dude, if you're an actual "trainer" with an actual "certification" you SHOULD know that ECCENTRIC contraction is a contraction and is more responsible for muscle hypertrophy than a CONCENTRIC contraction. Might want to go brush up on your kinesiology if you actually took the course.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    My thoughts exactly....
  • ninerbuff
    ninerbuff Posts: 48,988 Member
    TresaAswegan wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    What do you think it is?

    Think about the movement.

    There is no contraction in your hamstring through the movement. Your hamstring is being stretched, it's not contracting. Literally the opposite of what a contraction would be.
    Dude, if you're an actual "trainer" with an actual "certification" you SHOULD know that ECCENTRIC contraction is a contraction and is more responsible for muscle hypertrophy than a CONCENTRIC contraction. Might want to go brush up on your kinesiology if you actually took the course.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    My thoughts exactly....
    He should use this as a humble learning experience. Be a man and come back and admit he was incorrect and say thank you for informing him correctly.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    TresaAswegan wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    What do you think it is?

    Think about the movement.

    There is no contraction in your hamstring through the movement. Your hamstring is being stretched, it's not contracting. Literally the opposite of what a contraction would be.
    Dude, if you're an actual "trainer" with an actual "certification" you SHOULD know that ECCENTRIC contraction is a contraction and is more responsible for muscle hypertrophy than a CONCENTRIC contraction. Might want to go brush up on your kinesiology if you actually took the course.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    My thoughts exactly....
    He should use this as a humble learning experience. Be a man and come back and admit he was incorrect and say thank you for informing him correctly.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    He should but, based on his history, he won't. He's been proven wrong and schooled multiple times but never comes back and owns it like an adult.
  • Rammer123
    Rammer123 Posts: 679 Member
    mmapags wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    TresaAswegan wrote: »
    ninerbuff wrote: »
    RAD_Fitness wrote: »
    JerSchmare wrote: »
    What do you think it is?

    Think about the movement.

    There is no contraction in your hamstring through the movement. Your hamstring is being stretched, it's not contracting. Literally the opposite of what a contraction would be.
    Dude, if you're an actual "trainer" with an actual "certification" you SHOULD know that ECCENTRIC contraction is a contraction and is more responsible for muscle hypertrophy than a CONCENTRIC contraction. Might want to go brush up on your kinesiology if you actually took the course.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    My thoughts exactly....
    He should use this as a humble learning experience. Be a man and come back and admit he was incorrect and say thank you for informing him correctly.

    A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
    IDEA Fitness member
    Kickboxing Certified Instructor
    Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
    9285851.png

    He should but, based on his history, he won't. He's been proven wrong and schooled multiple times but never comes back and owns it like an adult.

    I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, because we posted around the same time.

    Zero patience here... People have lives outside of MFP.....
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