Fasting never okay?
Replies
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I have fasted on a few occasions for spiritual reasons.
I used Dr. Paavo Airola's books as guidance for a healthy fast. He has written so many.
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dr+aerola#/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=dr+airola+fasting&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adr+airola+fasting
It's important to proceed with caution and with guidance from someone knowledgeable about nutrition and the body's reactions.
I followed his vegetarian food plan, to detox and cleanse my system. It felt great on one level, but I had reactions. It turned out I was allergic to a couple of key foods and had to stop.0 -
Personally I wouldn't do it at all. Ever. It slows your metabolism and can lead to short and long-term damage.
I used to get horror cravings for my old favourites (sugary foods; starchy, empty carbs; soft drink; caffeine etc) if I didn't eat enough of the other stuff (protein, lower GI carbs and fat), or get enough sleep. Sometimes if I'm tired, or haven't eaten regularly I still get them, though it's rarer now. It takes a long time to get through it, but keep pushing through and your cravings will subside, provided you are filling your body with nutrient-dense food. My 'treats' or 'cravings' now consist of things like Quest bars (a protein bar that tastes so completely naughty but is as clean as can be! If you have a sweet tooth, and struggle with those cravings, look them up) sweet potato fries, popcorn and other things like that.
That's a vague statement. It takes at a MINIMUM 3 days of zero calorie intake for your metabolism to slow, before this time, your metabolism can actually speed up. If you are healthy, any fast no longer than 10 days is not going do cause any type of damage to your body. Please stop trying to scare people...
Goodness, I wasn't aware that what I wrote was so terrifying. I humbly apologise for making vague and scary statements *rolls eyes* I'm just going on what I know, have seen and have read about fasting. I personally don't think it's a great way to achieve ANY health/fitness goals, and find that eating regularly and not skipping food/meals has helped me achieve mine.
Nobody is scared or terrified of what you wrote. When you make an untrue statement and deliver it as a fact to someone who wants to know about a subject you will find that people who actually do know about that subject will question you on your evidence/sources. That's reasonable behaviour. No need to roll your eyes or get defensive.
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Ultimately, I think everyone has to do what is right for them, and I don't necessarily believe in one-size fits-all solutions.
So, when I did a Google search a few minutes ago to see if I could find that exact statistic (which I know I did find before), could I find it? No. Thought it is quarter-to-four in the A.M., and I'm a little tired. :-)
That information is consistent with conversations I've had with my nutritionist, my own calorimetry tests, my own experiences, and (I believe) the experiences my wife has had.
I'm a firm believer in a healthy diet, and in eating regular meals, and in NOT fasting. I routinely eat my meals, daily, at 8-9am, 1-2pm, 7-8pm, and almost always, have some sort of light healthy snack in the late evening (11pm or so.) It's very regimented, I know, and requires more pre-planning and more focus than some can or are able to give. It's part of the lifestyle choice I've made that works best for me.
My own calorimetry tests, as done by my nutritionists office (done using a KORR Ree/Vue Indirect Calorimetry device...a promotional YouTube video link is shown below), have been consistant, and showed over multiple tests my metabolic increase. I have this test done annually, in December.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQwBTuAryn4
Compared to a similar person of my gender, age, height and weight, my metabolic rate is 46% higher than average. These numbers are for me, from my last test last December:
Resting Energy Expenditure: 2,851 calories
Lifestyle & Activities: 855 Calories
Exercise: 296 Calories
That means for me, my "Weight Maintenance Zone" is 2,851-3,706 calories per day. My weight loss zone is 2,281-2,851 calories per day (1-2lbs per week), and that it is not recommended that I eat less than 2,281 calories per day at all.
The first time I had this test done, I was stalled in my weight loss. I had lost 170 pounds or so (my starting weight was just over 450), and I had lost about 170 pounds or so, with my weight hoving around 270 or so. I had this test done, and found out that my metabolism, according to this test the first time, was about 23% higher than average (for my gender, age, weight and height.) I also found that I was actually under-eating by approximately 800 calories per day.
I know it sounds crazy, but, I followed my nutritionists advice. I added about 500-600 calories per day to my diet, and on days I exercised, I added in about 3/4's, about 75%, of the estimated calories I burned on my workout, back into my diet (on THOSE days). Over the course of the next year, I lost another 50 pounds or so after doing that. I also lost another 20 or so in the months after that year, following the same advice, until I got down to about 207, which is what I had considered my "final goal weight." That's been an excellent weight for me.
I continue to faithfully eat my healthy meals, 3x a day (plus I often have a small healthy snack around 4pm, as well as my small healthy snack at 11pm). I, personally, do not follow the "mini-meals 5 or 6x per day" routine a lot of people do.
My wife, bless her, has lost a lot of weight herself. But she fairly regularly skips meals and her protein intake is comparatively low. She struggles a lot more than I do to keep/maintain or lose weight. She also has had the same metabolism test, on the same piece of equipment I have had it on in my nutritionists office, and her metabolic rate came back at about 25% below average for her gender, age, weight and height.
I'm not saying it works for everyone. I know what works for me, and I do believe that following something similar would work for most, but, everyone has to educate themselves, I think, and find out what works for them.
I'm happy to answer any questions, if I can. I have a Facebook page that I sometimes talk to people on, about stuff like this. If you (or anyone) "Friends" me, and sends me a PM asking for it, I'll share a link to that (but I don't want to put it in the post, I know that's against the rules, and I sometimes forget that...but I remembered it this morning!) :-)
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
I wrote in more detail below.
You may, or may not have the same experience. I was very careful to say that, this is what has worked for me.
I'm a firm believe in "Your Mileage May Vary." What works for me, may not work for you and vice versa.
Have a rockin' day!
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
I would agree with your statement, at least for me personally.
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
My husband is actually from India and in their culture (Hinduism) the women fast ALOT!!! Not like everyday, but for example once or twice a year the women wont eat or drink anything at all not even water for 24 hours, now me persoanlly, I'm like f***k that I have to still have at least water! Or they wont eat meat for a week, and don't eat any meat, poultry, or fish on Monday's Tuesday's and Thursdays! Out of respect of my husbands culture I try to go by that at least in the house or not do it in front of him with certain things to eat and drink, because obviously not many people here in USA do it that much. The point is though is that it's not crazy, if that's how you want to control your appetite then try it out here and there. I never thought about how much meat, chicken, and fish I eat until my husband was like oh we can't eat that today at least in the house, I never realized how careless I was and ate so much of it!!! (Which isn't all bad but obviously more veggies is better
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I think, too, there's probably a big difference between true "fasting", and people who just skip meals for the sake of convenience. I know when I was at my heaviest, I didn't "fast", I just didn't eat regular meals. I would skip breakfast and usually lunch, but of course, at dinner-time and throughout the evening, I just went wild with food, and at thousands and thousands of calories. Bad food, to. I obviously way over-ate my calories for the day, every day. Double, triple or more, probably. That's the only way, really, to get to 450lbs or more.
I don't blame that on "fasting" (ie, skipping my meals breakfast/lunch), nor do I think eating breakfast/lunch would have kept me from gaining weight (assuming I maintained my nightly eating habits.)
But I do believe that if I had eaten more often, I would have eaten less overall. I wouldn't have been so hungry at night for dinner and after.
But I don't believe that is a result of "fasting." That was just a very poor lifestyle. For me at least.
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
I didn't mean to start a ****storm here sorry folks0
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This sounds like you have a wonderful healthy lifestyle! And a very respectful relationship. :-)
Live long and prosper! (oops, inner-geek just slipped out!)
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
I don't think you did that. This conversation comes up a lot on here. You were just the latest one to ask about it.
I believe, ultimately, do what works for you. Talk to your doctor, your nutritionist, if you have one. Do your own research. Try things out. See what WORKS for YOU.
I wish you well!!!
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
I didn't mean to start a ****storm here sorry folks
Ach. You just chose the right topic, that's all
Sit back and open the popcorn.....0 -
Mmmmmm...popcorn!!! :-)0
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Fasting for as few as 12 hours may reduce your metabolism by as much as 42%.
If you think that gets you closer to your health goals, by all means, go for it.
Personally, I do everything I can to increase my metabolism, not reduce it. So this is an ABSOLUTE no-no for me.
In my opinion, I would advise against it.
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds
Have you got a scientific link for that figure at all, I am curious.0 -
Hi Di,
I found it once before, but didn't find it this morning...(which I said in my earlier post)...but check my earlier post in this thread (it's quite lengthy)...I posted at length about it.
Since it seems to be such a hot-button subject, I'll say again (for those reading this), it's what's worked for me. I think I've been pretty successful following this plan which has worked for me. It may, or may not, be for everyone. It's my experience.
You're more than welcome to read it, and message me if you have any questions...it's earlier in this thread. :-)
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
Don't fast. I went 65 hours doing a water fast and I was forced to eat. I felt so weak and sick its not worth it.0
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I don't get these water fast things. You starve yourself of food and then eventually you give give in to starvation and eat anything you get your hands on. Teaching you nothing about controlling your bad eating habits and screwing up your metabolism. I had the same issue as you, I would emotionally eat and/or eat out of pure boredom or just because it's there and I fancy it. Struggled to stick to any diet I tried long term. Then I discovered Intermittent Fasting. You only fast for one day (but you still eat 500 cals not nothing) and then the next day you can eat normally. It taught me that I don't have to eat all the time and ways to distract myself from wanting stuff I don't need and I lost 2 stone and it wasn't hard, even on the down days as you know saying no today isn't a problem as you can have what you want tomorrow. If you want to try something I would try this and not starvation which will do you no good whatsoever.0
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I fast sometimes. But, fasting for me is okay, because I am on antipsychotics which slow my metabolism so much that it is never high.
I would not recommend fasting though, because if you're not in the same position as me, it will only slow your metabolism and make it SO much harder to lose weight.0 -
Oh dear.
I am sorry tequila... but that really isn't true. And, as has been posted here already, there is a lot of high quality research to show that.0 -
Fast 2 days a week...eat only 500 calories. So Monday fast, Tuesday & Wednesday eat normal, Thursday fast, Friday & Saturday & Sunday eat normal
5:2 it's called. Wont harm you.0 -
fasting is good, I do it all the time,0
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fasting is good, I do it all the time,
ALL the time, really? :-D0 -
I didn't mean to start a ****storm here sorry folks
That's what the forums are for!! :happy:
People are very passionate about works for them and hate it when there are mis-informed attacks by people that are just shocked by the idea you don't actually need to be eating "3 square meals a day", or whatever myths they grew up (and grew fat..) on. Myths like "breakfast fires up your metabolism" or your "metabolism will crash if you don't stoke the furnace" also spring to mind...
IF certainly isn't necessary for everyone, some people try it and don't like it, some try it and find it works really well for them (like me - I do 5:2). There are also people that would be well advised not to fast (children, pregnant, previous eating disorder...).
Really don't think the idea of a long term (many day) fast is a good idea at all though and would hope you reconsider.
Here's some studies that a 5:2 buddy helpfully researched.....
Abstracts of clinical trial:
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/86/1/7.abstract
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/1/69.abstract
http://www.jlr.org/content/48/10/2212.abstract
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/90/5/1138.abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3017674/
http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPage=online&aid=85444220 -
I don't know too much about the science of it, but I fast for 30 days every year for the month of Ramadan.
Here's what I've noticed: I loose a bit of weight, but not much more than when I'm watching my calories outside of Ramadan. I do not gain weight after the month is over by gorging on food. I tend to make healthier choices and take smaller portions once the fasting month is over, because I'm not used to eating as much so I don't feel like I *need* larger portions.
Keep in mind, this is a spiritual fast as well as a physical fast, food is not the only thing we abstain from during Ramadan.
Also, different people fast differently during Ramadan, some people eat so much when breaking fast that they can barely stand, this is not what the Religion teaches, but many people do it anyways. This is why we hear a lot in our communities about how people gain weight during the month, it's because they fast all day and feast all night. This defeats the purpose.
These are just some of my experiences, but every body is different, and some people are physically unable to fast like those with illnesses like diabetes, or those who need to be taking medication at specific times during the day (These people are excused from fasting during Ramadan).
What I experience during fasting may be completely different from what the person next to me experiences, so my suggestion would be try it for a day or two and see how you feel. If you're getting dizzy and feel sick, then better break your fast, however if you find benefit in it, then great. Just listen to your body, and be safe when trying this sort of thing.0 -
I don't know too much about the science of it, but I fast for 30 days every year for the month of Ramadan.
Here's what I've noticed: I loose a bit of weight, but not much more than when I'm watching my calories outside of Ramadan. I do not gain weight after the month is over by gorging on food. I tend to make healthier choices and take smaller portions once the fasting month is over, because I'm not used to eating as much so I don't feel like I *need* larger portions.
Keep in mind, this is a spiritual fast as well as a physical fast, food is not the only thing we abstain from during Ramadan.
Also, different people fast differently during Ramadan, some people eat so much when breaking fast that they can barely stand, this is not what the Religion teaches, but many people do it anyways. This is why we hear a lot in our communities about how people gain weight during the month, it's because they fast all day and feast all night. This defeats the purpose.
These are just some of my experiences, but every body is different, and some people are physically unable to fast like those with illnesses like diabetes, or those who need to be taking medication at specific times during the day (These people are excused from fasting during Ramadan).
What I experience during fasting may be completely different from what the person next to me experiences, so my suggestion would be try it for a day or two and see how you feel. If you're getting dizzy and feel sick, then better break your fast, however if you find benefit in it, then great. Just listen to your body, and be safe when trying this sort of thing.
Now this ^^^ is a damn good posting!!! :flowerforyou:0 -
I do a form of Intermittent Fasting from time to time. It helped me with my night eating. I myself prefer a form of fasting in which I eat something every day, for even a limited period.0
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I don't get these water fast things. You starve yourself of food and then eventually you give give in to starvation and eat anything you get your hands on. Teaching you nothing about controlling your bad eating habits and screwing up your metabolism. I had the same issue as you, I would emotionally eat and/or eat out of pure boredom or just because it's there and I fancy it. Struggled to stick to any diet I tried long term. Then I discovered Intermittent Fasting. You only fast for one day (but you still eat 500 cals not nothing) and then the next day you can eat normally. It taught me that I don't have to eat all the time and ways to distract myself from wanting stuff I don't need and I lost 2 stone and it wasn't hard, even on the down days as you know saying no today isn't a problem as you can have what you want tomorrow. If you want to try something I would try this and not starvation which will do you no good whatsoever.
You are discussing the 5:2 version of IF. There are different kinds, e.g., Leangains, Fast 5.0 -
I don't know too much about the science of it, but I fast for 30 days every year for the month of Ramadan.
Here's what I've noticed: I loose a bit of weight, but not much more than when I'm watching my calories outside of Ramadan. I do not gain weight after the month is over by gorging on food. I tend to make healthier choices and take smaller portions once the fasting month is over, because I'm not used to eating as much so I don't feel like I *need* larger portions.
Keep in mind, this is a spiritual fast as well as a physical fast, food is not the only thing we abstain from during Ramadan.
Also, different people fast differently during Ramadan, some people eat so much when breaking fast that they can barely stand, this is not what the Religion teaches, but many people do it anyways. This is why we hear a lot in our communities about how people gain weight during the month, it's because they fast all day and feast all night. This defeats the purpose.
These are just some of my experiences, but every body is different, and some people are physically unable to fast like those with illnesses like diabetes, or those who need to be taking medication at specific times during the day (These people are excused from fasting during Ramadan).
What I experience during fasting may be completely different from what the person next to me experiences, so my suggestion would be try it for a day or two and see how you feel. If you're getting dizzy and feel sick, then better break your fast, however if you find benefit in it, then great. Just listen to your body, and be safe when trying this sort of thing.
Now this ^^^ is a damn good posting!!! :flowerforyou:
Thank you very much :blushing:0 -
I fast occasionally.0
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What a wonderfully written response. :-)
-David / BootJockey
-257 pounds0 -
Fasting for days at a time with no food are not good for you. They can lead to eating disorders without you realising, speaking from past experience. Intermittent fasting, however, has been found to be the the best way to lose weight and reduce risks of heart disease etc. Researchers have tested lots of diets and found the healthiest way to diet is the 5:2 diet where you eat normally for 5 days a week and cut your calories to 500cal on 2 days a week. Or alternatively you can do the 8h diet where you set yourself a limit of 8h in the day where you can eat, for example 12pm - 8pm. Have a look at these. But I would not recommend extended fasting.
Of course limiting your calories to 15% below your TDEE works for everyone, but some people struggle to stick to this and find the 5:2 easier as you can still have cake etc on the non fasting days. My mum has been doing the 5:2 diet for about 2 months and lost just over a stone and a half and she still eats what she wants on the non fasting days.
I wish you a happy and healthy weightloss journey 0
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