Yet another rant about physicians!
Replies
-
I live in Italy, and if you ever been here (especially in the southern part), obesity is striving like in America, it's an epidemic that is going worst and worst every year, most of them follow a "healthy" Mediterranean diet and some don't, but the only point I was making about oils and refined fat, in general, they're unhealthy because of the nutritional value and because it's literally a waste of calories, you can say that they're good but this doesn't change anything.
I would not consider the "traditional Med diet" that I was discussing "what people in Italy eat today," obviously Italy has a lot in common with other western countries. I was talking about more a specific diet (and I would agree Med diet is kind of a dumb and overused term). Anyway, it's outlined in Diet Cults, among other books (the point in that book being to show the broad range of macros that exist in healthy, traditional diets). It had a relatively high fat percentage and the bulk of the fat was from olive oil, although obvious some is from olives, nuts and seeds, fatty fish. Certainly people did not avoid olive, though, in many cultures with little obesity.the only way to know how much you're eating each is to use cronometer which is way more complete than mfp in this regards.
I do use cronometer from time to time. Again, your assumptions are offbase. (I also don't worry about sources of omega 6. One reason I eat a decent amount of fatty fish is omega 3, however.)The real problem w calories restricting for a really long term (+8 weeks) is that you're going to be deficient in some nutrients. You can supplement but, studies have shown that supplementing most of the time it's not effective or even worst.
You won't be if you choose a sensible diet and don't over-restrict. (And it sounds like OP is fine on both.)2 -
I beg to differ. I know Dr. Gregor who is the author of nutritionfacts.org, and it is NOTpropaganda. If you don't agree, fine, but please don't label it as propaganda. Thanks.18
-
SuccessThisTime wrote: »I beg to differ. I know Dr. Gregor who is the author of nutritionfacts.org, and it is NOTpropaganda. If you don't agree, fine, but please don't label it as propaganda. Thanks.
It's KITTEN, not propaganda. A rancid steaming pile of KITTEN16 -
Don't see what difference having one slice of pizza every day of the week (or varying items of "junk" or "processed" food items) vs eating them all at once on a Saturday and calling it cheating. That's just some weird attempt at dietary superiority.
My GP encouraged my 1lb per week rate of loss as perfect. When I was pushing a BMI of 36. She's delighted that every time she's seen me in the last two years, including if we just pass in the corridor while I'm at the pharmacy.
And at my last appointment we discussed hiking/walking/hillwalking and where are good spots to go.
And yes, my GP is one of the brilliant ones. And technically I can't fire her because UK and NHS but we can move to another GP within the surgery or to another surgery if there's another in the catchment area.
I can't speak of other UK trained GPs and their nutrition/weightloss knowledge as I've never discussed it with any of them before!
PS. I have seen OP around the forums, she's all good, doesn't need advice or a nutritionist (which incidentally is not a protected professional term so anyone can call themselves one) or a dietician and if she does, she's well aware of where to go to get solid guidance.8 -
SuccessThisTime wrote: »I beg to differ. I know Dr. Gregor who is the author of nutritionfacts.org, and it is NOTpropaganda. If you don't agree, fine, but please don't label it as propaganda. Thanks.
It's the very definition of propagandaideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one's cause or to damage an opposing cause; also : a public action having such an effect
That site doesn't publish facts, it publishes nothing but a distorted picture of nutrition from an evangelical vegan perspective.15 -
Something else that popped into my head. The make your nut butters at home because shop bought are full of all kinds of terrible things.
The only one available here that I have looked at (the shock! I read labels to make choices I'm happy with!) with sugar added is Skippy. Then there's some with salt though not many. Lots of others with have palm oil to stop that separation thing you get with pure nut and that's really an ethical choice. There are 11 brands in one supermarket to choose from (yes, I just looked up a supermaket) and at least 2 of those have no palm oil/any oil added.
Bottom line? You don't have to make nut butters yourself to get them to be just nuts or nuts with a little salt (and it would be weird to demonise salt in this context). Read labels. Educate yourself about ingredients and brands if those things are major factors in your buying choices. NONE of it is necessary or will inevitably lead to regain or terrible nutrition.7 -
SuccessThisTime wrote: »I beg to differ. I know Dr. Gregor who is the author of nutritionfacts.org, and it is NOTpropaganda. If you don't agree, fine, but please don't label it as propaganda. Thanks.
If he is free to spread his propaganda balderdash, then people are equally entitled to call him on it.
9 -
charris151 wrote: »I am a nurse practitioner. Some of the comments on this thread made me smile. I can honestly say I DO listen to my patients and not only do I recommend tools such as myfitnesspal, I refer my patients to a dietician if, at any point, I feel unable to provide sound advice. Health should be a team approach and I am not afraid to reach out at any time.
Yay for nurse practitioners!!!!6 -
SundropEclipse wrote: »I'm amazed the doctor would disregard the weight loss. o.o In any case, he sounds like he is allowing personal bias to affect his role as a doctor. As long as your nutritional needs are being met, calorie counting is definitely the way to go. Exercise *is* important for overall health, but if your weight is currently interfering with your ability to exercise than simply counting calories will suffice until you're able to do more.
I agree with this. When I had well over 100 lb to lose, my doctor was cheering me on when I'd lost 5 pounds at the very start. He actually told me a nice goal for that calendar year would be a 30 lb loss. That was the right kind of encouragement for me, personally, and I think it would serve a lot of people better than some of these other attitudes.
I've also found many people in the health field have not studied nutrition very much at all, or have some black & white ideas about it that are pretty limiting. For example, my friend lost about 60 lb and her doctor told her that was great but she could expect to gain it all back in a year or two. She's kept it off for ten years. If that was my doctor I would have switched.4 -
If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?0
-
Doctors are interesting. Hubby's told him he could eat all the organic meats and veggies he wanted, no need to count calories and he would lose weight....not working so well thus far. I took calorie and macro counting and IF/OMAD upon myself, received great praise from my doctor for losing weight and then told her how I'd done it. She'd never heard of IF/OMAD, but was interested in learning about it. My GP, OB, Neuro were all supportive of CICO methods.1
-
After reading this entire thread, I now want smoked salmon. Thanks a lot guys
OP - I would either stop discussing weight with your doc entirely, or find a new one that supports your healthy goals.2 -
charris151 wrote: »I am a nurse practitioner. Some of the comments on this thread made me smile. I can honestly say I DO listen to my patients and not only do I recommend tools such as myfitnesspal, I refer my patients to a dietitian if, at any point, I feel unable to provide sound advice. Health should be a team approach and I am not afraid to reach out at any time.
It's sad to witness what is happening to physicians as a profession, but I love seeing the increased respect and responsibility passed onto PAs, NPs, and the entire medical support staff. Much more holistic in approach and much more effective.
Bravo Zulu!1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?
Sometimes that's much easier said than done, particularly if you live in a rural area or have a restrictive health insurance plan, or face significant health challenges.6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?
Sometimes that's much easier said than done, particularly if you live in a rural area or have a restrictive health insurance plan, or face significant health challenges.
You can complain about it or do something about it.5 -
I actually like my physician and also like that he and I can challenge each other's belief structures. We, neither of us, have much influence over the other but he does listen to me. When I see him three months from now and have lost more weight without following his advice per se, we'll have this discussion again.6
-
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?
Sometimes that's much easier said than done, particularly if you live in a rural area or have a restrictive health insurance plan, or face significant health challenges.
You can complain about it or do something about it.
What would you suggest, given the previous limitations?1 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?
Sometimes that's much easier said than done, particularly if you live in a rural area or have a restrictive health insurance plan, or face significant health challenges.
You can complain about it or do something about it.
What, exactly do you suggest, if you live in a place with very few physicians, your health insurance won't cover any out of your county, and no one within a 3 hour drive is taking new patients anyway, and certainly not ones with your health issues nm3 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?
Sometimes that's much easier said than done, particularly if you live in a rural area or have a restrictive health insurance plan, or face significant health challenges.
You can complain about it or do something about it.
I'm a libertarian, but I've never seen anyone so ready to dismiss actual constraints to life choices as this.6 -
Need2Exerc1se wrote: »Need2Exerc1se wrote: »If you don't like your physician why not switch to another?
Sometimes that's much easier said than done, particularly if you live in a rural area or have a restrictive health insurance plan, or face significant health challenges.
You can complain about it or do something about it.
What, exactly do you suggest, if you live in a place with very few physicians, your health insurance won't cover any out of your county, and no one within a 3 hour drive is taking new patients anyway, and certainly not ones with your health issues nm
complain about it?6 -
This is actually really personal to me because my mom has endured amazing amounts of terrible care as a handicapped individual, and finding physicians for her has always been very difficult because her medical conditions are very unusual. This bad care has compounded a bad situation over many years and led to her being in much worse health today than she would've been.
For example, she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes as a child, but because her parents were farmers, they decided not to treat her diabetes because he while family would lose health and life insurance. She tried to get treated as an adult but it took nearly 20 years to convince a doctor that she had diabetes that needed insulin as doctor after doctor at clinic after clinic insisted she had to be type 2 and gave her pills that did nothing. So here she is at 61 with diabetic neuropathy in her feet and hands and legs and arms, unable to stand because of charcot fractures, suffering with 20% kidney function and a heart that's enlarged to 4 times its normal size, and nearly blind from diabetic retinopathy; all conditions that can be prevented with good blood sugar management, something that she was actively blocked from getting first by her parents (and their stupid doctor who approved starving her as an alternative to insulin treatment) and then by multiple physicians in three states and over 9 different health care systems.
We moved several times, and pursued health care in different places, and each doctor would ignore her medical records and start over with their own assumptions. She had to go through testing for Lupus at every single physician, doctors in the same clinics wouldn't even acknowledging each other's diagnosis. They even wrote hypochondriac in her chart after she developed Cushings Disease rather than recognizing this new medical problem.
Honestly, most people have no clue how hard getting good medical care can be if anything unusual is going on at all. "complain or do something about it" is such an ignorant comment.14 -
This is actually really personal to me because my mom has endured amazing amounts of terrible care as a handicapped individual, and finding physicians for her has always been very difficult because her medical conditions are very unusual. This bad care has compounded a bad situation over many years and led to her being in much worse health today than she would've been.
For example, she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes as a child, but because her parents were farmers, they decided not to treat her diabetes because he while family would lose health and life insurance. She tried to get treated as an adult but it took nearly 20 years to convince a doctor that she had diabetes that needed insulin as doctor after doctor at clinic after clinic insisted she had to be type 2 and gave her pills that did nothing. So here she is at 61 with diabetic neuropathy in her feet and hands and legs and arms, unable to stand because of charcot fractures, suffering with 20% kidney function and a heart that's enlarged to 4 times its normal size, and nearly blind from diabetic retinopathy; all conditions that can be prevented with good blood sugar management, something that she was actively blocked from getting first by her parents (and their stupid doctor who approved starving her as an alternative to insulin treatment) and then by multiple physicians in three states and over 9 different health care systems.
We moved several times, and pursued health care in different places, and each doctor would ignore her medical records and start over with their own assumptions. She had to go through testing for Lupus at every single physician, doctors in the same clinics wouldn't even acknowledging each other's diagnosis. They even wrote hypochondriac in her chart after she developed Cushings Disease rather than recognizing this new medical problem.
Honestly, most people have no clue how hard getting good medical care can be if anything unusual is going on at all. "complain or do something about it" is such an ignorant comment.
Thanks, you articulated much better than I could why "move" isn't necessarily a good or viable option since with edge/corner cases can be made much worse with a new doctor than with a poor doctor.
1 -
This is actually really personal to me because my mom has endured amazing amounts of terrible care as a handicapped individual, and finding physicians for her has always been very difficult because her medical conditions are very unusual. This bad care has compounded a bad situation over many years and led to her being in much worse health today than she would've been.
For example, she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes as a child, but because her parents were farmers, they decided not to treat her diabetes because he while family would lose health and life insurance. She tried to get treated as an adult but it took nearly 20 years to convince a doctor that she had diabetes that needed insulin as doctor after doctor at clinic after clinic insisted she had to be type 2 and gave her pills that did nothing. So here she is at 61 with diabetic neuropathy in her feet and hands and legs and arms, unable to stand because of charcot fractures, suffering with 20% kidney function and a heart that's enlarged to 4 times its normal size, and nearly blind from diabetic retinopathy; all conditions that can be prevented with good blood sugar management, something that she was actively blocked from getting first by her parents (and their stupid doctor who approved starving her as an alternative to insulin treatment) and then by multiple physicians in three states and over 9 different health care systems.
We moved several times, and pursued health care in different places, and each doctor would ignore her medical records and start over with their own assumptions. She had to go through testing for Lupus at every single physician, doctors in the same clinics wouldn't even acknowledging each other's diagnosis. They even wrote hypochondriac in her chart after she developed Cushings Disease rather than recognizing this new medical problem.
Honestly, most people have no clue how hard getting good medical care can be if anything unusual is going on at all. "complain or do something about it" is such an ignorant comment.
Oh it can definitely be hard, but that is not a reason not to try. I have a young family member who was born with rare medical conditions. So rare he's been written up in medical journals more than once and some elements of his disease are still not diagnosed. We have talked with congressional representatives, our governor, news agencies, etc. We have petitioned CMS/DHHR on numerous occasions. We have been to court over medical care. We live in a very rural area on a farm. We did what we needed to do. We did not take "this is all we can do" for an answer.
Of course, this doesn't seem to be anything the OP needs to do unless there is much more to the story than was provided.1 -
What is an APRN/ACNP? Asks the Norwegian..
0 -
-
What is an APRN/ACNP? Asks the Norwegian..
A Nurse with Certifications/authorities to do minor surgeries and prescribe medications like a Doctor.
Paid better than a nurse, but not as good as a doctor.
More experience than an entry level doctor and less cost for the clinic/hospital. In my experience often better than a traditional GP because they've got a little more experience/maturity.0 -
For example, she was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes as a child, but because her parents were farmers, they decided not to treat her diabetes because he while family would lose health and life insurance. She tried to get treated as an adult but it took nearly 20 years to convince a doctor that she had diabetes that needed insulin as doctor after doctor at clinic after clinic insisted she had to be type 2 and gave her pills that did nothing. So here she is at 61 with diabetic neuropathy in her feet and hands and legs and arms, unable to stand because of charcot fractures, suffering with 20% kidney function and a heart that's enlarged to 4 times its normal size, and nearly blind from diabetic retinopathy; all conditions that can be prevented with good blood sugar management, something that she was actively blocked from getting first by her parents (and their stupid doctor who approved starving her as an alternative to insulin treatment) and then by multiple physicians in three states and over 9 different health care systems.
Have papers been written on her? Because type 1 means that there is *no* insulin production. She would not have survived 20 years. People who were diagnosed before insulin was discovered in its pharmacological form did not survive without starvation -- and even then, they didn't survive for anything approaching 20 years.
I'd believe it that she was type 2 at a young age, but I do not believe for one minute that she was type 1.
2 -
I've got my own mini rant. Went for a physical a couple of days ago and told my doctor that I lost some weight and she didn't even acknowledge it. Not how much did you lose, not how did you lose it, no well done keep going, just absolutely nothing. And that is after her telling me each year that I should lose weight.
At the end she goes 'well you're just above a normal BMI and you really should lose some weight. But you're working on that right? Maybe try low carb' *sigh* Maybe losing 13% of my body weight means it's working just fine?! Oh well, I will just keep going anyways. No matter what she or anyone else says.
3 -
My doctors great she was fully open to changing her mind she told me people with PCOS do best on low carb but once i disregarded her (was miserable) and began losing weight she literally said and i quote "Jesus your my most motivated patient, Cant wait to see how this works out. I believe you know what your doing but in meantime lets just do monthly blood work, Just to monitor. And honestly as a learning experiment for myself, As i dont know everything and id be curious to learn from you for future patients."
Like holy *kitten* lottery winning family doc? So open while also being protective but also admitting to not knowing everything. Took me years to find her XD6 -
My GP just looked shocked when he looked back at several years worth of my weight at physical time. I had to explain bulk/cut to him. He was floored that I manipulated my weight up and down without many issues. But he was also happy that I was just choosing smaller portions of a healthy balanced diet and wasn't following fad ones. He asked me if I was doing "cleanses" or "juice fasts" and when I said no he said "good, because those are some foolish things to be doing".
Now my sports Dr understood completely. He previously played football during college for a Div 1 school prior to medical school. So he got the whole off-season/competitive-season weight fluctuations.
2
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.2K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 427 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.7K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions