Crossfit for Heavier Beginners?
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Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
I suspect he's really not even trying.. (Actually I'm not even doing that anymore--this is just for fun).
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Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
Let's review:
Me: "High intensity is a fundamental part of "crossfit'"
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
You: "Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level"
Me: Per the founder of crossfit, "high intensity" is listed several times in his statement defining crossfit.
You: "100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% for them"
Me: ??? That is totally irrelevant to the thread of discussion. And it directly contradicts what you said earlier.
I'm still not sure you understand the difference between "workload" and "intensity".
Actually, your first answer was the best one for the OP. I'm the one who derailed the discussion.
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stanmann571 wrote: »Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
I suspect he's really not even trying.. (Actually I'm not even doing that anymore--this is just for fun).
Au contraire mon frere.
I may not be serious about crossfit (I mean, who can be, really), but I am serious about language and fitness terms (even though this is still just for fun--and by "fun", I mean a friendly argument).0 -
These 2 statements say the same thing.Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
I say that scaling is how you adjust the workout to set the intensity.
You say that adjusting workload is how you set the intensity.
Are you trying to say that a beginner cannot work to a high enough percentage of their maximum for it to be called "high intensity"?
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If I may interpose, it seems like you both seem to understand that one given workload doesn't necessarily provide the same intensity for different individuals, untrained vs. trained specifically.
Azdak, it seems to me that your original argument (and feel free to correct me if I'm wrong), was that if you are an untrained individual and you walk into a crossfit gym and your workout is scaled down to the point that you are doing v-ups and walking 100 feet and picking up a broomstick--not necessarily how the workout would be scaled but for the sake of argument--that you might want to reconsider the worth of a crossfit membership as those exercises can easily be done either at home or in a cheaper big box gym. To me, your argument was, at least originally, about the value of a crossfit membership in this circumstance.
Others seem to indicate that the value of the membership for even an beginner should include not only the very pared down exercises prescribed to the beginner, but also the fact that you are given a program to follow and that you are surrounded by like-minded individuals who will cheer you on and motivate/inspire you to reach your goals in ways that might not be available to those working out at home or those working out in larger, cheaper, big box gyms.
Either way, it seems like the OP could definitely participate in crossfit and succeed, but it seems like what we are really discussing is the value of a crossfit gym membership for a beginner compared to cheaper alternatives. Maybe OP could get an equivalent workout by training elsewhere at first, but the added community atmosphere of a crossfit gym might be the kicker that makes it all worth it.
Anyway, I could be completely off on everyone's perspectives. Fun thread though!
P.S. This is one of my first posts and I don't know how to do the cool box quote thing everyone does, otherwise I would have.
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Hi OP! If you want to do CrossFit, you absolutely can! Find a good coach who ramps you up with a structured beginner program and helps you scale the workouts. My box has folks of all sizes who started from all places, and everyone gets stronger and faster! One of my favorite things about CF is that there is endless room for growth and so I never get bored. Have fun!0
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Working at a spine clinic I see A LOT of crossfitters (well temporarily out of commission) Cross fit is a great work out sure but I would stress the importance of making sure you get with someone who really cares about and understands proper body mechanics when working out and not pushing yourself to the point where you get injured for results. We see that a lot and it's really hard to maintain working out and eating at a deficit when you're sitting at home laid up or in a docs office because you screwed up your back, knees,neck or shoulders. That's really for any training program but we seem to see crossfitters the most.2
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OP I started crossfit at the very beginning of my fitness journey weighing 200+ pounds and did it the entire time I lost the weight. It's totally doable now; a good CF facility should be able to scale to any fitness level.0
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If you have a trainer that will work with your limitations, then yes do it.0
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These 2 statements say the same thing.Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
I say that scaling is how you adjust the workout to set the intensity.
You say that adjusting workload is how you set the intensity.
Are you trying to say that a beginner cannot work to a high enough percentage of their maximum for it to be called "high intensity"?
I think we are just getting bogged down in the semantics of the words "intensity", "workload", and "scaling". By using "intensity" imprecisely, it makes it sound like you are saying two different things.
You can adjust a workload, to allow 2 people of different fitness levels to work at the same intensity (for them).
You can change a workload,movement, etc to reduce the intensity of the workout so that a beginner or someone with less fitness/stamina can do a stripped down version of the workout while they improve their fitness and endurance.
Both could be referred to as "scaling" the workout, but they are completely different things.
In scenario A, the goal might be to squat at 80% intensity. For Guy 1, that might be 160 pounds; for Bro 1, that might be 280 lbs. Both are working at 80%, it feels roughly the same for both, but they are doing different workloads. You have "scaled" the workload, but not the intensity.
In scenario B, the goal is to work at 80% effort for the following circuit: box jumps, row, and kettle bell snatch. Bro 1 can do all three at 80% effort. Average Guy doesn't have the ability or endurance to do those, so he does the following: step up, row, push press. Since he is fairly new, we have him work at 60% effort. You have "scaled" both the workload and the intensity, but in a different way than for scenario A. In this case, "scaling" means something different--the workouts are different.
So when you say "intensity is relative" and then talk about "scaling", to me you are referring to scenario B. And I am referring to scenario A. So when you say our "2 statements say the same thing", I keep going back and rereading your comment to see if I misinterpreted it.
And I'm still not sure. That's why I like to be consistent with these terms.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
High-intensity is a fundamental part of crossfit. If someone can't do the intensity, then it's really just random circuit training.
It's like people saying they're doing "tabata planks".
Certainly if someone's goal is to do crossfit, it would be worthwhile to start there at a low level and work your way up. But if not, I was just pointing out that it's an expensive way to do basic conditioning.
Intensity is relative. Scaling allows the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness. It's not random circuit training. And crossfit is a lot more than just conditioning, there is strength work, depending on the individual box programming, it could be fairly significant.
Resistance and workload may be relative, but intensity is not. 80% intensity is 80% intensity-- for one it might mean lifting 50lbs and another 200lbs, but the effect on each body will still be 80%.
You're confusedThe only way you can "scale" the workload for someone who is less fit is to decrease the intensity and likely the volume. And once you do that---it's not crossfit. It's circuit training designed to condition someone so that they can do crossfit.
If 80% intensity for A is walking 100 meters and picking up a broom stick 10 times and 80% intensity for B is sprinting 400 meters and snatching 100 kilos 10 times
That's called scaling intensity.
This.
You gave a textbook example of the relativity of intensity. Immediately after saying it didn't exist...0 -
These 2 statements say the same thing.Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
I say that scaling is how you adjust the workout to set the intensity.
You say that adjusting workload is how you set the intensity.
Are you trying to say that a beginner cannot work to a high enough percentage of their maximum for it to be called "high intensity"?
I think we are just getting bogged down in the semantics of the words "intensity", "workload", and "scaling". By using "intensity" imprecisely, it makes it sound like you are saying two different things.
You can adjust a workload, to allow 2 people of different fitness levels to work at the same intensity (for them).
You can change a workload,movement, etc to reduce the intensity of the workout so that a beginner or someone with less fitness/stamina can do a stripped down version of the workout while they improve their fitness and endurance.
Both could be referred to as "scaling" the workout, but they are completely different things.
In scenario A, the goal might be to squat at 80% intensity. For Guy 1, that might be 160 pounds; for Bro 1, that might be 280 lbs. Both are working at 80%, it feels roughly the same for both, but they are doing different workloads. You have "scaled" the workload, but not the intensity.
In scenario B, the goal is to work at 80% effort for the following circuit: box jumps, row, and kettle bell snatch. Bro 1 can do all three at 80% effort. Average Guy doesn't have the ability or endurance to do those, so he does the following: step up, row, push press. Since he is fairly new, we have him work at 60% effort. You have "scaled" both the workload and the intensity, but in a different way than for scenario A. In this case, "scaling" means something different--the workouts are different.
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
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Juniper210 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
Yes, that's where I started. But I broke my own rule -- which is when someone asks a direct question, just answer the question and not soapbox. I guess I was just in the mood.
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stanmann571 wrote: »
These 2 statements say the same thing.Crossfit is not defined by a particular intensity level, that's pretty laughable. 79% intensity, nope, not crossfit yet...80.5% yay! Welcome to crossfit!
" Bike, run, swim, row, etc, hard and fast. Five or six days per week mix these elements in as many combinations and patterns as creativity will allow. Routine is the enemy. Keep workouts short and intense. " --Gary Glassman
Maybe he doesn't know what Crossfit is either.
You aren't supporting your case.
100% intensity for a person of low fitness is still 100% intensity...for them. What particular movements they do or pace at which they are able to perform them, is going to be vastly different from someone who is highly trained. That doesn't mean they aren't trying or working out with intensity. I don't know how to make it any simpler.
You: "intensity is relative--'scaling' allow the individual to perform at the appropriate intensity level for their fitness"
Me: That's changing workload, not intensity. "intensity" is working at a certain percentage of maximum. "Workload" is the resistance, weight, speed, etc necessary to achieve an "intensity".
I say that scaling is how you adjust the workout to set the intensity.
You say that adjusting workload is how you set the intensity.
Are you trying to say that a beginner cannot work to a high enough percentage of their maximum for it to be called "high intensity"?
I think we are just getting bogged down in the semantics of the words "intensity", "workload", and "scaling". By using "intensity" imprecisely, it makes it sound like you are saying two different things.
You can adjust a workload, to allow 2 people of different fitness levels to work at the same intensity (for them).
You can change a workload,movement, etc to reduce the intensity of the workout so that a beginner or someone with less fitness/stamina can do a stripped down version of the workout while they improve their fitness and endurance.
Both could be referred to as "scaling" the workout, but they are completely different things.
In scenario A, the goal might be to squat at 80% intensity. For Guy 1, that might be 160 pounds; for Bro 1, that might be 280 lbs. Both are working at 80%, it feels roughly the same for both, but they are doing different workloads. You have "scaled" the workload, but not the intensity.
In scenario B, the goal is to work at 80% effort for the following circuit: box jumps, row, and kettle bell snatch. Bro 1 can do all three at 80% effort. Average Guy doesn't have the ability or endurance to do those, so he does the following: step up, row, push press. Since he is fairly new, we have him work at 60% effort. You have "scaled" both the workload and the intensity, but in a different way than for scenario A. In this case, "scaling" means something different--the workouts are different.
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
???
I was clarifying different workout terms, not programming workouts.
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Yes, you can start crossfit at any level. When they scale the workouts to your ability you are still pushing and getting stronger and after so much time you'll be able to do the workout as prescribed. I started crossfit 4 months ago at 270 lbs, I'm down 33 from that now. You'll pay about $150 a month for unlimited box time. And the value in that is so high. It's like getting a personal training session every day of the week, most gyms will give nutrition advice, and you get the camaraderie of the community. I will never go back to a regular gym. At least not anytime soon. Yes I'm scaling workouts but at my weight and ability they are still super intense. I say go for it! What do you have to lose?0
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Juniper210 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
Yes, that's where I started. But I broke my own rule -- which is when someone asks a direct question, just answer the question and not soapbox. I guess I was just in the mood.
Your definition of scaling is vastly different. The one where you described athletes doing 2 different weights for squats isn't scaling.
Scaling is to allow both athletes to work at the desired intesity like in the 2nd example, except both are working at 80% not 80&60.1 -
MaryYoungmark wrote: »Yes, you can start crossfit at any level. When they scale the workouts to your ability you are still pushing and getting stronger and after so much time you'll be able to do the workout as prescribed. I started crossfit 4 months ago at 270 lbs, I'm down 33 from that now. You'll pay about $150 a month for unlimited box time. And the value in that is so high. It's like getting a personal training session every day of the week, most gyms will give nutrition advice, and you get the camaraderie of the community. I will never go back to a regular gym. At least not anytime soon. Yes I'm scaling workouts but at my weight and ability they are still super intense. I say go for it! What do you have to lose?
You know, I had not thought about it in those terms- I admit I looked at the price at my local boxes and was struggling to justify that cost to my budget.
Congratulations on your success so far!
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Juniper210 wrote: »stanmann571 wrote: »
Except that the goal is still to get him to 80%.. so you're either not understanding the point, or deliberately misconstruing it.
Except what he's saying is that why pay for crossfit when you're just working on the goal to be able to get to 80%? Spend less money at a normal gym to build up endurance and stamina so you can join crossfit when you can do 80% intensity. If we're having him "scale" to only 60% intensity then is he REALLY doing crossfit?
(I have no bone in this fight, I just like discussions on semantics)
Because crossfit is for joiners who need to be told what to do when and how.
If you're already able to do your own programming, then you don't need crossfit.1 -
If you want to try crossfit before committing to it, check out Groupon. That's what I did, for $30 I took 8 "on-ramp" classes. They teach the fundamentals and put you through a workout or WOD. If you like it, then you can decide to join.2
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