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If the stats on long term weight loss are so bad, why bother?
Replies
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For any Terry Pratchett fans on here, I think Victor's attitude in Moving Pictures really sums up how I'd think of food, fitness and exercise. Whereas most wizards and students at UU are content with large dinners he views lugging the extra weight around as more of a bother than eating right and exercising.
That's why I stick with it anyhow. I bother now because I don't want the annoyance and inconvenience of low muscle mass, a higher weight and a bad joints later in life. I'm personally attempting to "beat the odds" as the alternative is more work in the long run than counting out 2000 calories a day and 90 odd mins of exercise.
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"If the stats on long term weight loss are so bad, why bother?"
Because there are three kinds of falsehoods, "lies, damned lies, and statistics."9 -
CaffeineAngel wrote: »For any Terry Pratchett fans on here, I think Victor's attitude in Moving Pictures really sums up how I'd think of food, fitness and exercise. Whereas most wizards and students at UU are content with large dinners he views lugging the extra weight around as more of a bother than eating right and exercising.
That's why I stick with it anyhow. I bother now because I don't want the annoyance and inconvenience of low muscle mass, a higher weight and a bad joints later in life. I'm personally attempting to "beat the odds" as the alternative is more work in the long run than counting out 2000 calories a day and 90 odd mins of exercise.
Pratchett. Know exactly what you mean. 1 -
Gallowmere1984 wrote: »moogie_fit wrote: »Because we all believe that 'we are special' and 'that won't happen to me'
To be fair, the longest running veterans here seem to be having no issues. Assuming that a dieter accepts reality (CICO) and keeps habits that are conducive to working within the framework of that reality (calorie and weight trend tracking), things seem to keep humming along just fine.
It's when people try to go back to eating intuitively in the modern food environment without being picky about food choices that things tend to slide sideways. The IIFYM style of eating only actually works well, when you know what macros you are shoving in your face.
Been here since June 2013..maintained within 5lbs since 2014...and all of this is soooo true not just for me.
I accepted the reality of a few things about myself personally.
1. CICO
2. I need to log/weigh consistently
3. I need to move more to eat more
I yo yo'd for a long time and don't want to go back there so learning from past mistakes is important...12 -
My favourite quote from this article was: "The harder you are on yourself, the worse you do.’’ (Foster from WW).
I think along the same lines, although I might phrase it more like, "For long term success, if it feels hard, you need to make it easier." It's important because I'm going to need to practice calorie restriction in small doses for the rest of my life. It can't be something I dread.
I've come around to a more optimistic view of long term weight loss success, for myself and for others. I think we may see the stats improve in coming years, and sites like MFP will be part of the reason for it.12 -
One thing rarely gets talked about when it comes to weight loss, the the "ice cream" scene in the article reminded me of it. Getting over that "it's unfair" stage is important. Many people feel like extra weight is something that happened to them and they're a victim of it. You see it in things like "it's my metabolism", "it's my genetics", "it's my upbringing", "it's my health condition"...etc. Victims tend to resign to the fact that it's unfair and wallow in it, so even when they do attempt weight loss and don't totally resign to it in an attempt for self acceptance, the smallest bump in the road feels like a mountain and deeply hurts, which adds to this sense of "unfair". The polar opposite is to completely ignore that "it's unfair" and expect to just eat like a naturally thin person without challenges.
I think it's important to accept that life is unfair, but at the same time recognize the part you can play to adapt and work around that unfairness. Genetics, metabolism, medical conditions, upbringing, emotional issues, environment, or even how the brain is wired are things that "happen to you". Getting fat is something that "you do as a result".
When people start recognizing that it is what it is and they will always be unfairly challenged in that department BUT they can do something about it, they will be more likely to seek long term strategies and really mean it because they know they aren't invincible. Parroting "lifestyle change" is not enough. A real sense of the challenges ahead of them is needed, and if they decide they aren't willing to go that route and would rather stay fat, at least they would be making that decision because they are choosing to, not out of fake defeated "self acceptance".
ETA: sometimes I feel like it's a taboo to admit that some people are more challenged than others in certain aspects, including their capacity for change and priorities. No snowflakes, just individual variations. An opinion of mine that is certainly unpopular (would have mentioned it in that thread but I think this one is more fitting) because "rah rah discipline and willpower" is that a person has every right to decide that they are not willing to do what it takes to lose and maintain weight and I have zero problems with it as long as they know exactly what they are signing up for with no "this will never happen to me" delusions.17 -
I was thinking about my earlier (failed) attempts at losing weight and how what I'm doing now differs from what I did before. I'm more successful now (I'm on my longest ever streak of deliberate loss) than I have been at controlling my weight in the past because now I understand more than I did before.
I've tried all kinds of restrictive diets in the past and they never worked, because they weren't the right kind of diet for me. I've contributed to that failure statistic many times. Of course, it's too soon to say if I'll reach that successful statistic, but I believe that I will because now I *get it*. I was missing the knowledge about balance and how calories and macros fit into an overall context of a healthy diet. I often told myself, "oh that food is only 200 (or 300 or 350) calories, that's not that bad" without understanding how 200 calories fits into my overall day. I could cite the calorie content by memory for tons of foods, but I never learned how to put that into context.
I think that a lot of people fail for similar reasons. We all "know" the diet rules, but maybe we don't really understand them. Then, when we inevitably fail, we get frustrated and feel like "it's useless so why bother to try?" up until something makes us want to lose weight again. But, because we never really understand how weight loss works, we re-live that cycle over and over again.
The basic tenets of CICO seems so easy to me now (of course that's how it works!), but just judging from the forum threads, there are lots and lots of people out there who are still trying to figure it out.13 -
curiouskate wrote: »I thought the article was pretty great.
As a life long yo yo dieter, I always wonder if there is a health benefit (or detriment) to losing weight even if you gain it back. I wish there would be more studies done on that question. My opinion is that it must be beneficial on some level so I keep doing it. Over and over.
As a fellow yoyoer, I think that's a great question. (My range is 30 lbs, not counting twin-pregnancy weight gain; most of my adult life was spent in a 20-lb range, though I've gone as much as 10 lbs below that range a few times.)1 -
I think a lot of people diet instead of making lifestyle changes. Diets are a quick fix, life style choices stick and keep the weight off5
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I was thinking about my earlier (failed) attempts at losing weight and how what I'm doing now differs from what I did before. I'm more successful now (I'm on my longest ever streak of deliberate loss) than I have been at controlling my weight in the past because now I understand more than I did before.
I've tried all kinds of restrictive diets in the past and they never worked, because they weren't the right kind of diet for me. I've contributed to that failure statistic many times. Of course, it's too soon to say if I'll reach that successful statistic, but I believe that I will because now I *get it*. I was missing the knowledge about balance and how calories and macros fit into an overall context of a healthy diet. I often told myself, "oh that food is only 200 (or 300 or 350) calories, that's not that bad" without understanding how 200 calories fits into my overall day. I could cite the calorie content by memory for tons of foods, but I never learned how to put that into context.
I think that a lot of people fail for similar reasons. We all "know" the diet rules, but maybe we don't really understand them. Then, when we inevitably fail, we get frustrated and feel like "it's useless so why bother to try?" up until something makes us want to lose weight again. But, because we never really understand how weight loss works, we re-live that cycle over and over again.
The basic tenets of CICO seems so easy to me now (of course that's how it works!), but just judging from the forum threads, there are lots and lots of people out there who are still trying to figure it out.
^^^ All of that. I was nodding at everything you wrote.1 -
I found this video relevant. Identifying and breaking destructive cycles is hard (whatever it is to the person, be it boredom eating, mindless eating, food associations that rob them of any kind of control...etc), but it pays off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0DMwdd9qLc&list=WL&index=3 1 -
I was thinking about my earlier (failed) attempts at losing weight and how what I'm doing now differs from what I did before. I'm more successful now (I'm on my longest ever streak of deliberate loss) than I have been at controlling my weight in the past because now I understand more than I did before.
I've tried all kinds of restrictive diets in the past and they never worked, because they weren't the right kind of diet for me. I've contributed to that failure statistic many times. Of course, it's too soon to say if I'll reach that successful statistic, but I believe that I will because now I *get it*. I was missing the knowledge about balance and how calories and macros fit into an overall context of a healthy diet. I often told myself, "oh that food is only 200 (or 300 or 350) calories, that's not that bad" without understanding how 200 calories fits into my overall day. I could cite the calorie content by memory for tons of foods, but I never learned how to put that into context.
I think that a lot of people fail for similar reasons. We all "know" the diet rules, but maybe we don't really understand them. Then, when we inevitably fail, we get frustrated and feel like "it's useless so why bother to try?" up until something makes us want to lose weight again. But, because we never really understand how weight loss works, we re-live that cycle over and over again.
The basic tenets of CICO seems so easy to me now (of course that's how it works!), but just judging from the forum threads, there are lots and lots of people out there who are still trying to figure it out.
I don't think people actually know the rules...seriously.
The actual rules to lose weight anyway.
I have always contended that one of the primary reasons for the obesity epidemic in our society (not just north american now) is lack of education. Lack of knowing that whole wheat bread is good for you in a healthy way but it still has as many if not more calories than white bread for example (saw this on my 600lb life)
I think people can lose weight like nobodies business...but they don't know how they are doing it. They believe it's because they aren't eating ice cream or pizza or french fries or hamburgers or fast food or giving up "carbs" or eating high protein and fats or or or or or....that is why the diet industry is such a money maker...people lose sure...but they don't maintain due to lack of education.
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amusedmonkey wrote: »One thing rarely gets talked about when it comes to weight loss, the the "ice cream" scene in the article reminded me of it. Getting over that "it's unfair" stage is important. Many people feel like extra weight is something that happened to them and they're a victim of it. You see it in things like "it's my metabolism", "it's my genetics", "it's my upbringing", "it's my health condition"...etc. Victims tend to resign to the fact that it's unfair and wallow in it, so even when they do attempt weight loss and don't totally resign to it in an attempt for self acceptance, the smallest bump in the road feels like a mountain and deeply hurts, which adds to this sense of "unfair". The polar opposite is to completely ignore that "it's unfair" and expect to just eat like a naturally thin person without challenges.
I think this is spot on.
I think allowing yourself to slip into a victimhood mentality can be profoundly counter productive to success (even though life can be dreadfully unfair.) It takes away agency and makes the person an object that is acted upon based on forces outside their control leading to inaction rather than the person believing they have control and their actions are meaningful. This is straight away a temptation to hopelessness, low mood and despair.
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I was thinking about my earlier (failed) attempts at losing weight and how what I'm doing now differs from what I did before. I'm more successful now (I'm on my longest ever streak of deliberate loss) than I have been at controlling my weight in the past because now I understand more than I did before.
I've tried all kinds of restrictive diets in the past and they never worked, because they weren't the right kind of diet for me. I've contributed to that failure statistic many times. Of course, it's too soon to say if I'll reach that successful statistic, but I believe that I will because now I *get it*. I was missing the knowledge about balance and how calories and macros fit into an overall context of a healthy diet. I often told myself, "oh that food is only 200 (or 300 or 350) calories, that's not that bad" without understanding how 200 calories fits into my overall day. I could cite the calorie content by memory for tons of foods, but I never learned how to put that into context.
I think that a lot of people fail for similar reasons. We all "know" the diet rules, but maybe we don't really understand them. Then, when we inevitably fail, we get frustrated and feel like "it's useless so why bother to try?" up until something makes us want to lose weight again. But, because we never really understand how weight loss works, we re-live that cycle over and over again.
The basic tenets of CICO seems so easy to me now (of course that's how it works!), but just judging from the forum threads, there are lots and lots of people out there who are still trying to figure it out.
I don't think people actually know the rules...seriously.
The actual rules to lose weight anyway.
I have always contended that one of the primary reasons for the obesity epidemic in our society (not just north american now) is lack of education. Lack of knowing that whole wheat bread is good for you in a healthy way but it still has as many if not more calories than white bread for example (saw this on my 600lb life)
I think people can lose weight like nobodies business...but they don't know how they are doing it. They believe it's because they aren't eating ice cream or pizza or french fries or hamburgers or fast food or giving up "carbs" or eating high protein and fats or or or or or....that is why the diet industry is such a money maker...people lose sure...but they don't maintain due to lack of education.
I completely agree - maybe I should've said that we all think we "know" the rules
. I think you hit it spot on in that the biggest cause of obesity is a lack of education and the fact that most "diets" have a gimmicky component. We learn that we can lose weight by doing Y or Z, but we never learn why Y and Z work, so when it comes time to maintain the loss in context of a full life, that becomes difficult. 4 -
amusedmonkey wrote: »One thing rarely gets talked about when it comes to weight loss, the the "ice cream" scene in the article reminded me of it. Getting over that "it's unfair" stage is important. Many people feel like extra weight is something that happened to them and they're a victim of it. You see it in things like "it's my metabolism", "it's my genetics", "it's my upbringing", "it's my health condition"...etc. Victims tend to resign to the fact that it's unfair and wallow in it, so even when they do attempt weight loss and don't totally resign to it in an attempt for self acceptance, the smallest bump in the road feels like a mountain and deeply hurts, which adds to this sense of "unfair". The polar opposite is to completely ignore that "it's unfair" and expect to just eat like a naturally thin person without challenges.
I think it's important to accept that life is unfair, but at the same time recognize the part you can play to adapt and work around that unfairness. Genetics, metabolism, medical conditions, upbringing, emotional issues, environment, or even how the brain is wired are things that "happen to you". Getting fat is something that "you do as a result".
When people start recognizing that it is what it is and they will always be unfairly challenged in that department BUT they can do something about it, they will be more likely to seek long term strategies and really mean it because they know they aren't invincible. Parroting "lifestyle change" is not enough. A real sense of the challenges ahead of them is needed, and if they decide they aren't willing to go that route and would rather stay fat, at least they would be making that decision because they are choosing to, not out of fake defeated "self acceptance".
ETA: sometimes I feel like it's a taboo to admit that some people are more challenged than others in certain aspects, including their capacity for change and priorities. No snowflakes, just individual variations. An opinion of mine that is certainly unpopular (would have mentioned it in that thread but I think this one is more fitting) because "rah rah discipline and willpower" is that a person has every right to decide that they are not willing to do what it takes to lose and maintain weight and I have zero problems with it as long as they know exactly what they are signing up for with no "this will never happen to me" delusions.
Bingo!
I spend a great deal of time fighting back against the misinformation regarding slow metabolism and other such woo pedaled by the diet & fitness industry. If you spend time researching elite athletes you will find a dramatic increase of personal adversity in comparison to the average population. I first encountered this doing population studies on cancer patients. In these cases the diagnosis served as a "wake up call" that life is brief, precious and not to be wasted. It serves as a reminder that while genetics may establish parameters, our behavior can push beyond those.
You can only fight back with data. 'Secret Eaters' is a phenomenal show exposing this. The increased availability of metabolics testing to the public has been a great help in showing that this issue is not one of genetics, but one of behavior.
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I think some in this thread are underestimating how sneaky the body is!
No-one should be maintaining weight loss in a time of food plenty if the body was doing its job properly.
It is clear that after a period of food shortage (or dieting as we call it), bodies are designed to regain those fat reserves. After all another winter of food shortage might well be on its way soon. And we would waste away and die if we didn't build up fat reserves again.
There are a myriad of factors at play after weight loss. Food gets more attractive through leptin going down through less fat. We use fewer calories if we weigh less. There is an additional well documented effect of energy expenditure going down by more than expected for their weight in people who have dieted. Exercised muscles become more efficient.
Just 200 cals a day throughg all these factors is 20 pounds in a year!
The body and brain is in constant communication through hormones on short and medium term food stores - after all surviving means they are adequate. And it is the only thing that matters if we are to stay alive!
Finding and consuming food brings joy and elation and happiness. Important so that we make the effort to go and find food, grow crops and hunt animals. These feelings are elevated after periods of short or medium term food shortage.
In short it is a minor miracle anyone maintains any weight loss in an environment of food plenty - they shouldn't really if the body was doing its job!
But maintenance clearly needs vigilance. Following what seems to have helped those in the national weight control registry that have successfully maintained weight loss. And probably continued corrections for small weight gains. It is said a plane is always slightly off its flight path but a pilot is continually making corrections to get it to its destination!4 -
I asked my counsellor, yesterday, what I can do to increase the chances of success on Keto, and she said "Don't go on a diet." She went on to explain that diets don't really work, and ppl end up gaining the weight back. She reminded me of other failed attempts. I was crushed. I just really needed to hear something supportive from her. And then, just this evening I was visiting good friends. I told them I was on keto. My friend says, "Ohh, I know a lot of ppl that were on it. They lost a lot, but gained it all and then some." I don't know y I'm allowing these things to affect me so much. Maybe deep down inside I actually 'know' I'm going to fail...0
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LiveToBloom wrote: »I asked my counsellor, yesterday, what I can do to increase the chances of success on Keto, and she said "Don't go on a diet." She went on to explain that diets don't really work, and ppl end up gaining the weight back. She reminded me of other failed attempts. I was crushed. I just really needed to hear something supportive from her. And then, just this evening I was visiting good friends. I told them I was on keto. My friend says, "Ohh, I know a lot of ppl that were on it. They lost a lot, but gained it all and then some." I don't know y I'm allowing these things to affect me so much. Maybe deep down inside I actually 'know' I'm going to fail...
1. Stop talking about your weight loss efforts with other people. Really, you're going to get a lot more negative than positive, and all kinds of stupid advice and discouragement.
2. If you enjoy the keto way of eating, join one of the lchf groups on mfp and ask away - you'll get good advice and encouragement.
3. If you are doing keto just because you think it's going to make you lose weight faster than any other way of eating, you might want to rethink that - any way of eating will work if you stay at your calorie limit, and you'll want to eat the foods that most satisfy you.14 -
Thanx for the advice1
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LiveToBloom wrote: »I asked my counsellor, yesterday, what I can do to increase the chances of success on Keto, and she said "Don't go on a diet." She went on to explain that diets don't really work, and ppl end up gaining the weight back. She reminded me of other failed attempts. I was crushed. I just really needed to hear something supportive from her. And then, just this evening I was visiting good friends. I told them I was on keto. My friend says, "Ohh, I know a lot of ppl that were on it. They lost a lot, but gained it all and then some." I don't know y I'm allowing these things to affect me so much. Maybe deep down inside I actually 'know' I'm going to fail...
1. Stop talking about your weight loss efforts with other people. Really, you're going to get a lot more negative than positive, and all kinds of stupid advice and discouragement.
2. If you enjoy the keto way of eating, join one of the lchf groups on mfp and ask away - you'll get good advice and encouragement.
3. If you are doing keto just because you think it's going to make you lose weight faster than any other way of eating, you might want to rethink that - any way of eating will work if you stay at your calorie limit, and you'll want to eat the foods that most satisfy you.
Yes, all of this, especially 1.
The low carb group on MFP is helpful and supportive. You have to ask to join, but that's really no big deal and you'll get support.2 -
LiveToBloom wrote: »I asked my counsellor, yesterday, what I can do to increase the chances of success on Keto, and she said "Don't go on a diet." She went on to explain that diets don't really work, and ppl end up gaining the weight back. She reminded me of other failed attempts. I was crushed. I just really needed to hear something supportive from her. And then, just this evening I was visiting good friends. I told them I was on keto. My friend says, "Ohh, I know a lot of ppl that were on it. They lost a lot, but gained it all and then some." I don't know y I'm allowing these things to affect me so much. Maybe deep down inside I actually 'know' I'm going to fail...
1. Stop talking about your weight loss efforts with other people. Really, you're going to get a lot more negative than positive, and all kinds of stupid advice and discouragement.
2. If you enjoy the keto way of eating, join one of the lchf groups on mfp and ask away - you'll get good advice and encouragement.
3. If you are doing keto just because you think it's going to make you lose weight faster than any other way of eating, you might want to rethink that - any way of eating will work if you stay at your calorie limit, and you'll want to eat the foods that most satisfy you.
This nails it.
Pp-back in the day during my weight loss phase I did a little known IF protocol, (ADF), and I intentionally didn't tell people what I was doing or that I was even losing weight because it's no one's business but mine. And while I was going about things in a pretty controversial/unorthodox way-it was working for me and that's all that mattered.
If keto is working for you and you enjoy it, then keep at it and don't put yourself out there to get criticism. The only thing that matters in this process is YOU.2 -
LiveToBloom wrote: »I asked my counsellor, yesterday, what I can do to increase the chances of success on Keto, and she said "Don't go on a diet." She went on to explain that diets don't really work, and ppl end up gaining the weight back. She reminded me of other failed attempts. I was crushed. I just really needed to hear something supportive from her. And then, just this evening I was visiting good friends. I told them I was on keto. My friend says, "Ohh, I know a lot of ppl that were on it. They lost a lot, but gained it all and then some." I don't know y I'm allowing these things to affect me so much. Maybe deep down inside I actually 'know' I'm going to fail...
1. Stop talking about your weight loss efforts with other people. Really, you're going to get a lot more negative than positive, and all kinds of stupid advice and discouragement.
2. If you enjoy the keto way of eating, join one of the lchf groups on mfp and ask away - you'll get good advice and encouragement.
3. If you are doing keto just because you think it's going to make you lose weight faster than any other way of eating, you might want to rethink that - any way of eating will work if you stay at your calorie limit, and you'll want to eat the foods that most satisfy you.
I agree with all of this.
@LiveToBloom Is this counselor experienced and knowledgeable in weight loss/weight management? Professionals often start relying on those letters behind their name, even when completely out of their area of expertise.
Think long term on this. If you cannot envision doing keto your entire life, then you may want to rethink this strategy. The reason most diets fail is that they are not realistic and lack implementation of discipline into the process.
Long term success in this (and anything) relies on looking beyond the symptoms and identifying root cause. Conduct this simple exercise - write down 5 habits you want to change that will have a positive impact on your health and weight - prioritize these from 1-5. Scratch off 2-5 and focus on number 1. Replace this "bad" habit with a "good" habit. Once this habit has become part of your normal behavior repeat this exercise.
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The stats are this way because people diet, which is a short term comment. The only way to permanently improve your health is a commitment to a lifestyle change4
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Because I'm special and better at this than all of those normals5
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I truly believe that this prevailing culture of 'acceptance' is something people use as an excuse not to change. Accepting that you're unhealthy does not lessen your unhappiness or health risks but a lot of people sure like to act like it does which is why so many more people are unsuccessful in their weight loss and maintenance endeavors.0
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While regain/relose the same five-ten pounds, the original forty I dropped is still off...and I finished losing it almost three years ago. I'm in no danger of ballooning up like a cartoon character, because to lose weight, I changed. I'm a different person than I was, and I no longer worry that the weight is going to magically come back. For one, I'm more vigilant. For another, I'm more active. And I care, generally, more about my health and choices.
This. I've been struggling with the same 20-30 lbs for what feels like forever..but my highest weight was 6 years ago and about 90lbs more that I currently am (I weighed abput 230-240ish lb).. I always feel like crap when my weight creeps up to where it seems to like to sit (about 160 when my ideal is abput 135ish) because I feel like 'just another failed diet statistic'. I "fail" because I fall off my intentions but I do catch myself, and, in the long run, I'd be concidered an overall success.
Statistics can be interesting and they're good for studies and examining populations, but one should be careful about taking them too personally.
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Those of us who, in their middle-aged and older years, who've bothered to undertake proper eating and exercise and then experienced improving health, know why to bother.
I'll set the scene for you. My oldest daughter is a nurse practitioner, but in her early career was a critical care nurse working in a cardiac ICU. I was an obese 40-something guy. One day, for no reason, my heart started beating super fast. I dillied, I dallied, I delayed, but eventually I drove to the local hospital and presented at the ER with "my heart is beating 200 beats per minute". The ER staff sprang into action, hastily moving me into a big room with lots of equipment.
As I told this story to my daughter the nurse, she remarked, "The room was big for all the doctors trying to keep you from dieing ".
As @SezxyStef noted with her deceased step-mother, I've observed with my mother, dead at 59, and my cousin, dead at 42. They weren't killed by their obesity, but their death was hastened by their ignorance and their choices.
Choose health, and to do that, keep learning.4
This discussion has been closed.
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