Working Around a Shoulder Issue
Penthesilea514
Posts: 1,189 Member
I am having some minor pain in my shoulder (nothing acute) that I want to rest up for a week or two and so I am going to stop all overhead lifts (bench press, military press, lat pulldowns) in that time period. I do a 3 day full body lifting routine (Greyskull LP variant) currently (squats, deads, lat pulldowns, rows, military press, bench press with some core work at the end of each routine). I also run for 20 minutes following all of that.
I don't want to push myself too much to prevent a bigger issue, so I was thinking that I might do machine weights for that time so that the movements I do are more isolated to specific muscles (in addition to squats and deadlifts). I want to figure out what I can do, with reduced weight regardless) for my chest/biceps/triceps that would be "shoulder friendly" while I baby my shoulder. If I can't work those safely, then I won't, but I feel like I should be able to do more isolation movements and still rest my shoulder. Is that a reasonable thought? For example, I feel like bicep curls or tricep pushdowns have limited shoulder involvement. I actually don't know if I can really work my chest without some level of shoulder involvement- but I am still new to this, so if there are let me know. Here is my schedule with overhead exercises removed:
M: Squats, Bent Over Row (light weight), planks (elbows), 20-30 min run
W: Deadlifts, weighted crunches, 20-30 min run
F: Squats/Leg Press, Seated Row (light weight), hyperextensions, 20-30 min run
Maybe add biceps/triceps to M and F (normally my bench days) with light weight? Is there something else I should add to balance the temporary removal of those exercises? I know it is a short time and I could just remove that stuff if there is no other option and shorten my workout, I just want to know if there are some good alternatives to be aware of. Thanks.
I don't want to push myself too much to prevent a bigger issue, so I was thinking that I might do machine weights for that time so that the movements I do are more isolated to specific muscles (in addition to squats and deadlifts). I want to figure out what I can do, with reduced weight regardless) for my chest/biceps/triceps that would be "shoulder friendly" while I baby my shoulder. If I can't work those safely, then I won't, but I feel like I should be able to do more isolation movements and still rest my shoulder. Is that a reasonable thought? For example, I feel like bicep curls or tricep pushdowns have limited shoulder involvement. I actually don't know if I can really work my chest without some level of shoulder involvement- but I am still new to this, so if there are let me know. Here is my schedule with overhead exercises removed:
M: Squats, Bent Over Row (light weight), planks (elbows), 20-30 min run
W: Deadlifts, weighted crunches, 20-30 min run
F: Squats/Leg Press, Seated Row (light weight), hyperextensions, 20-30 min run
Maybe add biceps/triceps to M and F (normally my bench days) with light weight? Is there something else I should add to balance the temporary removal of those exercises? I know it is a short time and I could just remove that stuff if there is no other option and shorten my workout, I just want to know if there are some good alternatives to be aware of. Thanks.
1
Replies
-
Bumping (a lot of spammy IG posts, I'm not that impatient lol)0
-
So biceps are still going to be worked on lat pulldown and bent over row - so those should be good.
Do you think your bench form was spot-on?
Because it can be done in manner that engages shoulders much more than they need to be.
Like doing close-grip bench usually means lighter weight since more tri engagement, but at least the chest is still used, and shoulders even less if you don't flare the elbows out.
With very light weight on your normal bench, can you feel the difference between really locking the lats back and shoulders in, and arch in back, and not doing that.
Some machines even when setup exactly correct, don't help with impingement issues if that is the reason for shoulder problem, or if that could make it worse.
I'd almost say super light weight and great form on normal lifts merely for practice level, or skip them - it's just a week.0 -
So biceps are still going to be worked on lat pulldown and bent over row - so those should be good.
Oh, you are right there, I didn't think that one all the way through >.<Do you think your bench form was spot-on?
Because it can be done in manner that engages shoulders much more than they need to be.
Like doing close-grip bench usually means lighter weight since more tri engagement, but at least the chest is still used, and shoulders even less if you don't flare the elbows out.
With very light weight on your normal bench, can you feel the difference between really locking the lats back and shoulders in, and arch in back, and not doing that.
I think my bench form is actually my best form of the lifts, but as a beginner I can't realistically say spot on. I think that the issue was more likely my military press as far as form goes, and I will be going back to the drawing board on that one once I am rested up. I will look into form for the close-grip bench, and try it with a really light weight to see if I can keep my elbows in check. Thanks for the suggestion.Some machines even when setup exactly correct, don't help with impingement issues if that is the reason for shoulder problem, or if that could make it worse.
An excellent point, one I didn't think of. Since I am not super familiar with the machines, I will skip for now.I'd almost say super light weight and great form on normal lifts merely for practice level, or skip them - it's just a week.
Okay then, I can work with that. Thank you for your helpful suggestions!0 -
I think it was on a vertical shoulder press nautilus machine I felt "a little something" in my shoulder. After that one day I was eating a apple and went to throw it over a fence right in front of me. Holy crap the pain was awful. I can not do any overhand throwing motion, it like there is nothing there. If I forget and say swat at a bee near my face total pain. I guess it is rotator cuff but have not gone to a doctor because I have always heard to surgery is as bad as the injury. So now anything I do shoulder wise is insanely lightweight, don't try to put a lot of weight on it because it is not worth it.1
-
Shoulder issue here too, 100% related to improper form in bench. I felt it coming on and ignored it until it got unbrearable. Even walking the dog hurt.
I've since taken a few months off from bench and overhead press. Doc says keep your elbows really close to your body when benching, I tend to let mind flare out.
I did some accessory work as you mentioned, but saw no appreciable results.1 -
I think it was on a vertical shoulder press nautilus machine I felt "a little something" in my shoulder. After that one day I was eating a apple and went to throw it over a fence right in front of me. Holy crap the pain was awful. I can not do any overhand throwing motion, it like there is nothing there. If I forget and say swat at a bee near my face total pain. I guess it is rotator cuff but have not gone to a doctor because I have always heard to surgery is as bad as the injury. So now anything I do shoulder wise is insanely lightweight, don't try to put a lot of weight on it because it is not worth it.
Ouch I am sorry. I will definitely take it easy and hope you recover quickly.0 -
Shoulder issue here too, 100% related to improper form in bench. I felt it coming on and ignored it until it got unbrearable. Even walking the dog hurt.
I've since taken a few months off from bench and overhead press. Doc says keep your elbows really close to your body when benching, I tend to let mind flare out.
I did some accessory work as you mentioned, but saw no appreciable results.
That's helpful, thanks. I will take it easy instead of trying to do too much- especially if you didn't really feel like it helped to much.0 -
So I'm also currently going through a shoulder issue that I've never had before. I tried rehabbing it and then when that didn't seem to work (1.5 months), I got a cortisone shot. That didn't work either so on the 29th I'm getting an MRI to figure out if I either tore something or if I just need to continue rehabbing. At this time I can't do anything with presses of almost any sort without some real discomfort. So I've just stuck to isometric training. Hard flexing of the muscle in a fixed position with or without resistance.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
3 -
Partial rotator cuff tear and a SLAP tear in my left shoulder this past Dec '16. Contrast MRI showed both. The sports Dr was convinced I just strained something but when I went back in a month later due to still having pain, he ordered the contrast MRI. That lead to a sports surgeon consultation where they did not recommend surgery based on the strength in my shoulders. He manipulated my left arm into all kinds of strange, and sometimes painful, positions. After he did that was when he asked what I had been doing in the meantime. I told him (what's listed below) and he said keep at it.
So, I've spent the last 9 months rehabbing my shoulder. OHP got tossed out the window as did standard BB bench press. Light DB shoulder presses with lots of reps. Face pulls and rear delt flies, both low weight high reps. Switched to reverse grip bench press, which took a LOT of time to get used to, and DB bench press. And lots of band work too and light DB front delt work. If something started aggravating my shoulder I immediately stopped and looked for something else I could sub in.
When I mean light DB stuff I'm talking about using the 5lb DBs to start. 20lbs on the face pulls. Started with just the BB on reverse grip bench. 3-4 sets of around 20 reps (if my shoulder was feeling good). If anything I was very cautious and I think that's a good thing.
It's only been in the past 6 weeks that I added back in OHP and standard bench. Weights are no where near what I was doing and I'm fine with that. I'm still rehabbing in my mind and will take as long as needed.
I will also point out that this worked for me but I am not a Dr nor a PT and can't say if it will help or hinder.2 -
I have rotator cuff damage and a torn labrum, and haven't even begun with weights for that reason. Surgery is the only treatment option at this point, but I'm not rushing into it.0
-
Forgot to mention that I moved my grip in on both bench and OHP when I started them back up. Keeps the shoulders nice and tucked. Plus I focus on staying tight and control the weight down and back up.1
-
So I'm also currently going through a shoulder issue that I've never had before. I tried rehabbing it and then when that didn't seem to work (1.5 months), I got a cortisone shot. That didn't work either so on the 29th I'm getting an MRI to figure out if I either tore something or if I just need to continue rehabbing. At this time I can't do anything with presses of almost any sort without some real discomfort. So I've just stuck to isometric training. Hard flexing of the muscle in a fixed position with or without resistance.
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
I had not thought of isometric training- that might be a good think to incorporate. And I hope however your MRI turns out, you recover swiftly.1 -
piperdown44 wrote: »Partial rotator cuff tear and a SLAP tear in my left shoulder this past Dec '16. Contrast MRI showed both. The sports Dr was convinced I just strained something but when I went back in a month later due to still having pain, he ordered the contrast MRI. That lead to a sports surgeon consultation where they did not recommend surgery based on the strength in my shoulders. He manipulated my left arm into all kinds of strange, and sometimes painful, positions. After he did that was when he asked what I had been doing in the meantime. I told him (what's listed below) and he said keep at it.
So, I've spent the last 9 months rehabbing my shoulder. OHP got tossed out the window as did standard BB bench press. Light DB shoulder presses with lots of reps. Face pulls and rear delt flies, both low weight high reps. Switched to reverse grip bench press, which took a LOT of time to get used to, and DB bench press. And lots of band work too and light DB front delt work. If something started aggravating my shoulder I immediately stopped and looked for something else I could sub in.
When I mean light DB stuff I'm talking about using the 5lb DBs to start. 20lbs on the face pulls. Started with just the BB on reverse grip bench. 3-4 sets of around 20 reps (if my shoulder was feeling good). If anything I was very cautious and I think that's a good thing.
It's only been in the past 6 weeks that I added back in OHP and standard bench. Weights are no where near what I was doing and I'm fine with that. I'm still rehabbing in my mind and will take as long as needed.
I will also point out that this worked for me but I am not a Dr nor a PT and can't say if it will help or hinder.
I appreciate your advice and caution- I am grateful for the insight. I am no stranger to injury and I am trying to be overly cautious. But your suggestions are helpful to know good modifications as I move on. Thanks!0 -
I have rotator cuff damage and a torn labrum, and haven't even begun with weights for that reason. Surgery is the only treatment option at this point, but I'm not rushing into it.
I am sorry to hear that- I hope whatever treatment you pursue helps you in your recovery.
All of this just really has brought to my mind how important my shoulders are for everyday activities and how frustrating it must be for you all that are injured to deal with it.0 -
Penthesilea514 wrote: »I have rotator cuff damage and a torn labrum, and haven't even begun with weights for that reason. Surgery is the only treatment option at this point, but I'm not rushing into it.
I am sorry to hear that- I hope whatever treatment you pursue helps you in your recovery.
All of this just really has brought to my mind how important my shoulders are for everyday activities and how frustrating it must be for you all that are injured to deal with it.
It even made me replace my car. First time in about 30 years that I've regularly driven an automatic.1 -
Do you know which part of your shoulder is in pain? Last year I thought I had Rotator Cuff issues but did some research into it and had some physios look at it - it turned out to be the AC Joint and I think it was caused by arms flaring out during BB bench press.
It took about 5 months for a full recovery and during the first 2 months, I completely stopped any exercises that required movement of "pressing". After the 2 months, I started using the pec deck machine and really focused on engaging the chest muscles rather than shoulders (also retracting the scapula - this seemed to help).
I would suggest resting as much as possible for a few weeks (I know it can be tempting to do other exercises!). Get yourself a thera band and do some light stretches/exercises to work on shoulder mobility.
I use the thera band for warm up and warm down nowadays (shoulders, back, legs) and feel it has help greatly with getting the blood flowing in the body.
Hope that helps & good luck!
1 -
TL/DR. But, see a PT and get exercises for your rotator cuff. Usually involves resistance bands.2
-
I agree with previous post. See a physiotherapist. I did and, after an MRI, discovered I had a frozen shoulder. He gave me some exercises to do with a resistance band and told me to stop lifting weights altogether and no push ups or bench presses.1
-
Jthanmyfitnesspal wrote: »TL/DR. But, see a PT and get exercises for your rotator cuff. Usually involves resistance bands.alida1walsh wrote: »I agree with previous post. See a physiotherapist. I did and, after an MRI, discovered I had a frozen shoulder. He gave me some exercises to do with a resistance band and told me to stop lifting weights altogether and no push ups or bench presses.
I appreciate the advice. I noticed some minor joint centered pain after my workout the other day and I am seeking advice out of caution. If I do not feel better in the next week or so of rest (well, RICE and minor stretching), I will seek professional medical advice. Thanks.0 -
See a physio would be the best thing as they will be able to pinpoint what the issue is and give you rehab/stretching exercises to do. Had rotator cuff issues last year in my left shoulder. Physio gave me plenty of stretches to do. Like @piperdown44 we took out OHP as the physio said that was making the issue worse. Also we took out pull ups and dips. Was still able to do flat bench and incline bench but could only go to parallel and not to go heavy. Same with rows. Took a while for the rotator cuff issues to go away and its probably not 100% nor will be ever again but I continue with the rehab for overall shoulder health. I have not re-introduced OHP cos the physio said studies have shown that OHP is becoming responsible for too many shoulder issues with people and that teams in many sports no longer include it. I am back benching fully, doing pull ups, dips and the like.1
-
jdscrubs32 wrote: »See a physio would be the best thing as they will be able to pinpoint what the issue is and give you rehab/stretching exercises to do. Had rotator cuff issues last year in my left shoulder. Physio gave me plenty of stretches to do. Like @piperdown44 we took out OHP as the physio said that was making the issue worse. Also we took out pull ups and dips. Was still able to do flat bench and incline bench but could only go to parallel and not to go heavy. Same with rows. Took a while for the rotator cuff issues to go away and its probably not 100% nor will be ever again but I continue with the rehab for overall shoulder health. I have not re-introduced OHP cos the physio said studies have shown that OHP is becoming responsible for too many shoulder issues with people and that teams in many sports no longer include it. I am back benching fully, doing pull ups, dips and the like.
Thanks for the information- I didn't realize OHP is starting to be removed from some sports programming. I will research into this further. I am glad you are back to benching and such again
0 -
OHP can easily be done with bad form.
But really, it has the arm in a position for least impingement, hand/wrist direction being the next possible improvement if still issues.
So I'd be curious about those studies, if time was taken to see if the people being injured were doing it right in the first place.
It's like how upright row is terrible for impingement, and about impossible to tweak for safety, yet some can do it (for now) without issues.1 -
I've been working through basically the same thing the past few months. My coach (Olympic weightlifting) has me doing: Romanian deadlifts, Pendlay rows@50%, dumbbell curls (all variations), dumbell incline press, face pulls, tall box step ups, glute ham raise, deadlifts, bench press@50%, triceps anything I want.
Nothing overhead until the PT says it's okay.
I'm doing Sots press with just a pvc pipe just for extra mobility work.
We do, of course, do overhead press a lot (this is for Heybales) but our Coach makes sure everything is done correctly all the time. He's ALWAYS watching. dammit. lol
1 -
OHP can easily be done with bad form.
But really, it has the arm in a position for least impingement, hand/wrist direction being the next possible improvement if still issues.
So I'd be curious about those studies, if time was taken to see if the people being injured were doing it right in the first place.
It's like how upright row is terrible for impingement, and about impossible to tweak for safety, yet some can do it (for now) without issues.
Very true. It would be important to know if it is bad form (which is a problem for any lift) or something mechanically about the motion (even with proper form) that caused injury.0 -
I've been working through basically the same thing the past few months. My coach (Olympic weightlifting) has me doing: Romanian deadlifts, Pendlay rows@50%, dumbbell curls (all variations), dumbell incline press, face pulls, tall box step ups, glute ham raise, deadlifts, bench press@50%, triceps anything I want.
Nothing overhead until the PT says it's okay.
I'm doing Sots press with just a pvc pipe just for extra mobility work.
We do, of course, do overhead press a lot (this is for Heybales) but our Coach makes sure everything is done correctly all the time. He's ALWAYS watching. dammit. lol
Thanks for the lifting ideas- I hope you recover soon from your shoulder issues.
I am glad your coach is watching then lol 0 -
I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.
And, for my shoulder, pulling lifts didn't bother it at all, so I was able to continue with rows, pullups and deadlifts.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.
And, for my shoulder, pulling lifts didn't bother it at all, so I was able to continue with rows, pullups and deadlifts.
I will probably just switch to DB for OHP when I am recovered (I had only made it to the BB about a month ago) but I had started with DB with no issues.
I have been doing rows (light weight) without issue, but I was not sure about lat pulldown (I can't do pullups) given the starting position of the arms "overhead", but I think I was being too literal with that interpretation.0 -
Penthesilea514 wrote: »I think it was on a vertical shoulder press nautilus machine I felt "a little something" in my shoulder. After that one day I was eating a apple and went to throw it over a fence right in front of me. Holy crap the pain was awful. I can not do any overhand throwing motion, it like there is nothing there. If I forget and say swat at a bee near my face total pain. I guess it is rotator cuff but have not gone to a doctor because I have always heard to surgery is as bad as the injury. So now anything I do shoulder wise is insanely lightweight, don't try to put a lot of weight on it because it is not worth it.
Ouch I am sorry. I will definitely take it easy and hope you recover quickly.
Well two years later it still is not possible to throw out a piece of gum right handed so I guess recovery is not in the cards. I guess I will go get a doctor's opinion and see how involved the repair may be but I dread it.0 -
piperdown44 wrote: »I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.
I did this when I was lifting years ago. I probably had a nascent shoulder problem at the time which I didn't properly recognize, and only knew that the position a BB would fix my shoulders to during an OHP was intolerable. Switching to DB at the time fixed the problem.1 -
Penthesilea514 wrote: »I think it was on a vertical shoulder press nautilus machine I felt "a little something" in my shoulder. After that one day I was eating a apple and went to throw it over a fence right in front of me. Holy crap the pain was awful. I can not do any overhand throwing motion, it like there is nothing there. If I forget and say swat at a bee near my face total pain. I guess it is rotator cuff but have not gone to a doctor because I have always heard to surgery is as bad as the injury. So now anything I do shoulder wise is insanely lightweight, don't try to put a lot of weight on it because it is not worth it.
Ouch I am sorry. I will definitely take it easy and hope you recover quickly.
Well two years later it still is not possible to throw out a piece of gum right handed so I guess recovery is not in the cards. I guess I will go get a doctor's opinion and see how involved the repair may be but I dread it.
Ah man, then I hope you and your doctor come up with a good plan for you. Sorry to hear that.0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 393.6K Introduce Yourself
- 43.8K Getting Started
- 260.3K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.9K Food and Nutrition
- 47.5K Recipes
- 232.5K Fitness and Exercise
- 431 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.6K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153K Motivation and Support
- 8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 24 News and Announcements
- 1.1K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.6K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions