Working Around a Shoulder Issue

Penthesilea514

jdscrubs32 wrote: »

See a physio would be the best thing as they will be able to pinpoint what the issue is and give you rehab/stretching exercises to do. Had rotator cuff issues last year in my left shoulder. Physio gave me plenty of stretches to do. Like @piperdown44 we took out OHP as the physio said that was making the issue worse. Also we took out pull ups and dips. Was still able to do flat bench and incline bench but could only go to parallel and not to go heavy. Same with rows. Took a while for the rotator cuff issues to go away and its probably not 100% nor will be ever again but I continue with the rehab for overall shoulder health. I have not re-introduced OHP cos the physio said studies have shown that OHP is becoming responsible for too many shoulder issues with people and that teams in many sports no longer include it. I am back benching fully, doing pull ups, dips and the like.

Thanks for the information- I didn't realize OHP is starting to be removed from some sports programming. I will research into this further. I am glad you are back to benching and such again

heybales

OHP can easily be done with bad form.

But really, it has the arm in a position for least impingement, hand/wrist direction being the next possible improvement if still issues.

So I'd be curious about those studies, if time was taken to see if the people being injured were doing it right in the first place.

It's like how upright row is terrible for impingement, and about impossible to tweak for safety, yet some can do it (for now) without issues.

QuikDogs

I've been working through basically the same thing the past few months. My coach (Olympic weightlifting) has me doing: Romanian deadlifts, Pendlay rows@50%, dumbbell curls (all variations), dumbell incline press, face pulls, tall box step ups, glute ham raise, deadlifts, bench press@50%, triceps anything I want.

Nothing overhead until the PT says it's okay.

I'm doing Sots press with just a pvc pipe just for extra mobility work.

We do, of course, do overhead press a lot (this is for Heybales) but our Coach makes sure everything is done correctly all the time. He's ALWAYS watching. dammit. lol

Penthesilea514

heybales wrote: »

OHP can easily be done with bad form.

But really, it has the arm in a position for least impingement, hand/wrist direction being the next possible improvement if still issues.

So I'd be curious about those studies, if time was taken to see if the people being injured were doing it right in the first place.

It's like how upright row is terrible for impingement, and about impossible to tweak for safety, yet some can do it (for now) without issues.

Very true. It would be important to know if it is bad form (which is a problem for any lift) or something mechanically about the motion (even with proper form) that caused injury.

Penthesilea514

QuikDogs wrote: »

I've been working through basically the same thing the past few months. My coach (Olympic weightlifting) has me doing: Romanian deadlifts, Pendlay rows@50%, dumbbell curls (all variations), dumbell incline press, face pulls, tall box step ups, glute ham raise, deadlifts, bench press@50%, triceps anything I want.

Nothing overhead until the PT says it's okay.

I'm doing Sots press with just a pvc pipe just for extra mobility work.

We do, of course, do overhead press a lot (this is for Heybales) but our Coach makes sure everything is done correctly all the time. He's ALWAYS watching. dammit. lol

Thanks for the lifting ideas- I hope you recover soon from your shoulder issues.

I am glad your coach is watching then lol

piperdown44

I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.

And, for my shoulder, pulling lifts didn't bother it at all, so I was able to continue with rows, pullups and deadlifts.

Penthesilea514

piperdown44 wrote: »

I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.

And, for my shoulder, pulling lifts didn't bother it at all, so I was able to continue with rows, pullups and deadlifts.

I will probably just switch to DB for OHP when I am recovered (I had only made it to the BB about a month ago) but I had started with DB with no issues.

I have been doing rows (light weight) without issue, but I was not sure about lat pulldown (I can't do pullups) given the starting position of the arms "overhead", but I think I was being too literal with that interpretation.

rsclause

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

rsclause wrote: »

I think it was on a vertical shoulder press nautilus machine I felt "a little something" in my shoulder. After that one day I was eating a apple and went to throw it over a fence right in front of me. Holy crap the pain was awful. I can not do any overhand throwing motion, it like there is nothing there. If I forget and say swat at a bee near my face total pain. I guess it is rotator cuff but have not gone to a doctor because I have always heard to surgery is as bad as the injury. So now anything I do shoulder wise is insanely lightweight, don't try to put a lot of weight on it because it is not worth it.

Ouch I am sorry. I will definitely take it easy and hope you recover quickly.

Well two years later it still is not possible to throw out a piece of gum right handed so I guess recovery is not in the cards. I guess I will go get a doctor's opinion and see how involved the repair may be but I dread it.

ccsernica

piperdown44 wrote: »

I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.

I did this when I was lifting years ago. I probably had a nascent shoulder problem at the time which I didn't properly recognize, and only knew that the position a BB would fix my shoulders to during an OHP was intolerable. Switching to DB at the time fixed the problem.

Penthesilea514

rsclause wrote: »

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

rsclause wrote: »

I think it was on a vertical shoulder press nautilus machine I felt "a little something" in my shoulder. After that one day I was eating a apple and went to throw it over a fence right in front of me. Holy crap the pain was awful. I can not do any overhand throwing motion, it like there is nothing there. If I forget and say swat at a bee near my face total pain. I guess it is rotator cuff but have not gone to a doctor because I have always heard to surgery is as bad as the injury. So now anything I do shoulder wise is insanely lightweight, don't try to put a lot of weight on it because it is not worth it.

Ouch I am sorry. I will definitely take it easy and hope you recover quickly.

Well two years later it still is not possible to throw out a piece of gum right handed so I guess recovery is not in the cards. I guess I will go get a doctor's opinion and see how involved the repair may be but I dread it.

Ah man, then I hope you and your doctor come up with a good plan for you. Sorry to hear that.

Penthesilea514

ccsernica wrote: »

piperdown44 wrote: »

I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.

I did this when I was lifting years ago. I probably had a nascent shoulder problem at the time which I didn't properly recognize, and only knew that the position a BB would fix my shoulders to during an OHP was intolerable. Switching to DB at the time fixed the problem.

It seems like a good route to go then Thanks!

piperdown44

Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.

Penthesilea514

piperdown44 wrote: »

Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.

I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).

ninerbuff

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

piperdown44 wrote: »

Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.

I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).

Usually it's a bar that hands your palms facing toward your body (think hammer curl here). Not all gyms have them. I've "rigged" ways to do this with just some single handles placed over a standard pulldown bar. You just have to be careful.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Penthesilea514

ninerbuff wrote: »

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

piperdown44 wrote: »

Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.

I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).

Usually it's a bar that hands your palms facing toward your body (think hammer curl here). Not all gyms have them. I've "rigged" ways to do this with just some single handles placed over a standard pulldown bar. You just have to be careful.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Ah I see- I will take a look at the options at my gym to see if I can find one (they do have quite a selection) so they might have one.

piperdown44

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

piperdown44 wrote: »

Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.

I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).

Looks like this:

Penthesilea514

piperdown44 wrote: »

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

piperdown44 wrote: »

Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.

I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).

Looks like this:

Oh, thank you! I will check out what they have.

Packerjohn

How do your hands look when standing? Palms forward is a good indication of rounded shoulders, which often leads to shoulder impingement pain. This can be caused by too much bench pressing or more likely the typical hunched over posture people assume when working on a computer or looking at a smartphone.



Over time the impingement can lead to injuries to the shoulder structure. From a 30+ year heavy computer user with 6 shoulder operations to my credit.

Packerjohn

Penthesilea514 wrote: »

jdscrubs32 wrote: »

See a physio would be the best thing as they will be able to pinpoint what the issue is and give you rehab/stretching exercises to do. Had rotator cuff issues last year in my left shoulder. Physio gave me plenty of stretches to do. Like @piperdown44 we took out OHP as the physio said that was making the issue worse. Also we took out pull ups and dips. Was still able to do flat bench and incline bench but could only go to parallel and not to go heavy. Same with rows. Took a while for the rotator cuff issues to go away and its probably not 100% nor will be ever again but I continue with the rehab for overall shoulder health. I have not re-introduced OHP cos the physio said studies have shown that OHP is becoming responsible for too many shoulder issues with people and that teams in many sports no longer include it. I am back benching fully, doing pull ups, dips and the like.

Thanks for the information- I didn't realize OHP is starting to be removed from some sports programming. I will research into this further. I am glad you are back to benching and such again

The injury potential of the OHP can be impacted by the shape of your acromiom. There are 3 basic shapes, depending on which type you were born with, will help determine your likelihood of impingement.

https://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/section/9

If you would like to read more on shoulders and exercises for them, check out Eric Cressey. Cressey is a long time trainer who has specialized in shoulder function.

https://ericcressey.com/

Lots of free articles on his site.

I would personally keep away from upper body movements for a week or so, try, with lower weight, lower risk movements to see if you still have pain. If have pain, see the physical therapist.

Best of luck.

Penthesilea514

Packerjohn wrote: »

How do your hands look when standing? Palms forward is a good indication of rounded shoulders, which often leads to shoulder impingement pain. This can be caused by too much bench pressing or more likely the typical hunched over posture people assume when working on a computer or looking at a smartphone.



Over time the impingement can lead to injuries to the shoulder structure. From a 30+ year heavy computer user with 6 shoulder operations to my credit.

Err...I am somewhere in between those pictures when I let my arms hang naturally, though I feel like I do favor having the backs of my hands forward, so I think you are on to something here. I work at a computer most days, moderate computer gamer (not as much these days), avid curled up book reader, and baby bench presser.