Working Around a Shoulder Issue
Replies
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piperdown44 wrote: »I switched to DB OHP and I know quite a few lifters who dropped BB OHP in favor of DB OHP as they said it doesn't bother their shoulders (doesn't bother mine either). I'll throw in some BB every once in a while but I'm still cautious about using a BB for OHP.
I did this when I was lifting years ago. I probably had a nascent shoulder problem at the time which I didn't properly recognize, and only knew that the position a BB would fix my shoulders to during an OHP was intolerable. Switching to DB at the time fixed the problem.
It seems like a good route to go then
Thanks! 0 -
Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.1
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piperdown44 wrote: »Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.
I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).0 -
Usually it's a bar that hands your palms facing toward your body (think hammer curl here). Not all gyms have them. I've "rigged" ways to do this with just some single handles placed over a standard pulldown bar. You just have to be careful.Penthesilea514 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.
I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
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Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
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Usually it's a bar that hands your palms facing toward your body (think hammer curl here). Not all gyms have them. I've "rigged" ways to do this with just some single handles placed over a standard pulldown bar. You just have to be careful.Penthesilea514 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.
I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).
A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition
Ah I see- I will take a look at the options at my gym to see if I can find one (they do have quite a selection) so they might have one.0 -
Penthesilea514 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.
I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).
Looks like this:
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piperdown44 wrote: »Penthesilea514 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Going very wide on lat pulldowns bothered my left shoulder. I moved my hands in and that was better but then found a sweet neutral grip pulldown bar and started using it.
I did do very light lat pulldowns yesterday without issue (with a more narrow grip). What does that neutral grip pulldown bar look like? My gym has several options for the bars, but I am not familiar enough with my options other than some of the basics (v-handle, rope, wide grip pulldown bar).
Looks like this:
Oh, thank you! I will check out what they have.0 -
How do your hands look when standing? Palms forward is a good indication of rounded shoulders, which often leads to shoulder impingement pain. This can be caused by too much bench pressing or more likely the typical hunched over posture people assume when working on a computer or looking at a smartphone.
Over time the impingement can lead to injuries to the shoulder structure. From a 30+ year heavy computer user with 6 shoulder operations to my credit.
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Penthesilea514 wrote: »jdscrubs32 wrote: »See a physio would be the best thing as they will be able to pinpoint what the issue is and give you rehab/stretching exercises to do. Had rotator cuff issues last year in my left shoulder. Physio gave me plenty of stretches to do. Like @piperdown44 we took out OHP as the physio said that was making the issue worse. Also we took out pull ups and dips. Was still able to do flat bench and incline bench but could only go to parallel and not to go heavy. Same with rows. Took a while for the rotator cuff issues to go away and its probably not 100% nor will be ever again but I continue with the rehab for overall shoulder health. I have not re-introduced OHP cos the physio said studies have shown that OHP is becoming responsible for too many shoulder issues with people and that teams in many sports no longer include it. I am back benching fully, doing pull ups, dips and the like.
Thanks for the information- I didn't realize OHP is starting to be removed from some sports programming. I will research into this further. I am glad you are back to benching and such again
The injury potential of the OHP can be impacted by the shape of your acromiom. There are 3 basic shapes, depending on which type you were born with, will help determine your likelihood of impingement.
https://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/section/9
If you would like to read more on shoulders and exercises for them, check out Eric Cressey. Cressey is a long time trainer who has specialized in shoulder function.
https://ericcressey.com/
Lots of free articles on his site.
I would personally keep away from upper body movements for a week or so, try, with lower weight, lower risk movements to see if you still have pain. If have pain, see the physical therapist.
Best of luck.1 -
Packerjohn wrote: »How do your hands look when standing? Palms forward is a good indication of rounded shoulders, which often leads to shoulder impingement pain. This can be caused by too much bench pressing or more likely the typical hunched over posture people assume when working on a computer or looking at a smartphone.
Over time the impingement can lead to injuries to the shoulder structure. From a 30+ year heavy computer user with 6 shoulder operations to my credit.
Err...I am somewhere in between those pictures when I let my arms hang naturally, though I feel like I do favor having the backs of my hands forward, so I think you are on to something here. I work at a computer most days, moderate computer gamer (not as much these days), avid curled up book reader, and baby bench presser.0 -
How do you keep the baby from squirming when you bench press them?
Are they heavy enough?
And hopefully not on OHP!
That neutral hand position is also the other improvement to OHP that can be helpful to some, as links above show, depending on your build, or issues. So when out of injury starting again, may still be useful.
And sometimes using a curl bar with the bends allows that slight tweaking of hand rotation in that direction, but for sure that's why DB's work better than BB for some, start and end with good rotation direction.
Just realize you won't be able to do 1/2 the weight with DB as you had on the BB. Perhaps not for awhile.
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How do you keep the baby from squirming when you bench press them?
Are they heavy enough?
And hopefully not on OHP!
That neutral hand position is also the other improvement to OHP that can be helpful to some, as links above show, depending on your build, or issues. So when out of injury starting again, may still be useful.
And sometimes using a curl bar with the bends allows that slight tweaking of hand rotation in that direction, but for sure that's why DB's work better than BB for some, start and end with good rotation direction.
Just realize you won't be able to do 1/2 the weight with DB as you had on the BB. Perhaps not for awhile.
hahaha yeah, just trying to find a baby to bench adds a lot of time to my workouts, but it's good cardio
As for weight for DBs, I am probably going to start about as light as I can and progress slowly, so I don't mind the deload back to where I started from once I am recovered.0 -
Packerjohn wrote: »Penthesilea514 wrote: »jdscrubs32 wrote: »See a physio would be the best thing as they will be able to pinpoint what the issue is and give you rehab/stretching exercises to do. Had rotator cuff issues last year in my left shoulder. Physio gave me plenty of stretches to do. Like @piperdown44 we took out OHP as the physio said that was making the issue worse. Also we took out pull ups and dips. Was still able to do flat bench and incline bench but could only go to parallel and not to go heavy. Same with rows. Took a while for the rotator cuff issues to go away and its probably not 100% nor will be ever again but I continue with the rehab for overall shoulder health. I have not re-introduced OHP cos the physio said studies have shown that OHP is becoming responsible for too many shoulder issues with people and that teams in many sports no longer include it. I am back benching fully, doing pull ups, dips and the like.
Thanks for the information- I didn't realize OHP is starting to be removed from some sports programming. I will research into this further. I am glad you are back to benching and such again
The injury potential of the OHP can be impacted by the shape of your acromiom. There are 3 basic shapes, depending on which type you were born with, will help determine your likelihood of impingement.
https://www.shoulderdoc.co.uk/section/9
If you would like to read more on shoulders and exercises for them, check out Eric Cressey. Cressey is a long time trainer who has specialized in shoulder function.
https://ericcressey.com/
Lots of free articles on his site.
I would personally keep away from upper body movements for a week or so, try, with lower weight, lower risk movements to see if you still have pain. If have pain, see the physical therapist.
Best of luck.
Awesome, thanks for compiling all of that- I will be taking it easy for a week or two and see how it feels. Plus, I have plenty of reading to do! 0 -
I have had 2 rotator cuff surgeries (both left and right) ; one caused skiing and the other lifting. I have also suffered various strains and injuries while engaged in various activities (not just lifting). In fact, I am dealing w/tendonitis in my right elbow (caused my lifting) now.
My advice is to ALWAYS stop doing any activity that causes pain and to rest the affected body part until the pain goes away AND, if the pain does NOT go away of its own accord after suitable rest (including any OTC or self administered palliative measures) to then get a medical assessment, including but not limited to xrays and an MRI, especially if a joint is involved.
I am currently taking my own advice and am resting my right elbow; have been for about a week so far. No lifting or body weight exercises (upper or lower) whatsoever.
This has happened b4 because I have a rigourous BW routine which involves doing 50-75 pullups, 100-125 decline pushups and 80-100 dips, every other day 3x's a week both w/ & w/o a weighted vest.
Had to rest a month the last time this happened; both elbows were involved then. So, I'm going to wait a month again and, if the pain doesn't go away by then, I'll contact my PCP for a referral to my orthopedic surgeon for a diagnosis.
I have no problem doing this because I have already achieved all of my weightloss and strength objectives and have been in maintenance of both for some time.
However, even if you have not achieved your goals yet, IMO it is always better to rest in order to allow an injured body part to heal completely b4 resuming the activity that caused the injury in the 1st place.
While resting and doing "nothing" to allow your body to heal can be frustrating, failure to do so may prevent the body part from healing completely and/or prevent you from realizing your max strength and performance potential in the long run.
Push on at your own risk.
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I have had 2 rotator cuff surgeries (both left and right) ; one caused skiing and the other lifting. I have also suffered various strains and injuries while engaged in various activities (not just lifting). In fact, I am dealing w/tendonitis in my right elbow (caused my lifting) now.
My advice is to ALWAYS stop doing any activity that causes pain and to rest the affected body part until the pain goes away AND, if the pain does NOT go away of its own accord after suitable rest (including any OTC or self administered palliative measures) to then get a medical assessment, including but not limited to xrays and an MRI, especially if a joint is involved.
I am currently taking my own advice and am resting my right elbow; have been for about a week so far. No lifting or body weight exercises (upper or lower) whatsoever.
This has happened b4 because I have a rigourous BW routine which involves doing 50-75 pullups, 100-125 decline pushups and 80-100 dips, every other day 3x's a week both w/ & w/o a weighted vest.
Had to rest a month the last time this happened; both elbows were involved then. So, I'm going to wait a month again and, if the pain doesn't go away by then, I'll contact my PCP for a referral to my orthopedic surgeon for a diagnosis.
I have no problem doing this because I have already achieved all of my weightloss and strength objectives and have been in maintenance of both for some time.
However, even if you have not achieved your goals yet, IMO it is always better to rest in order to allow an injured body part to heal completely b4 resuming the activity that caused the injury in the 1st place.
While resting and doing "nothing" to allow your body to heal can be frustrating, failure to do so may prevent the body part from healing completely and/or prevent you from realizing your max strength and performance potential in the long run.
Push on at your own risk.
I appreciate your words and advice. I guess the intent of my original post was not to push through pain, but whether those exercises would allow me to work certain muscle groups in the upper body without involving the shoulder by virtue of being isolation-type exercises or machines. I have no problem not doing pressing exercises for a while and seeking professional medical advice if needed.
It is helpful to learn about different modifications and exercises to do that may help in the future (given a recovery from my current situation) and any modifications to existing exercises to minimize impact in the meantime. Especially as a new lifter, I am not familiar with how to modify my programming.
I don't want to do stop completely, however, as I have absolutely no pain in my exercises that I am still doing and I feel like, at least at this point, I don't have a reason to stop doing those.
Thanks and I hope your elbow recovers quickly.0 -
Just realize you won't be able to do 1/2 the weight with DB as you had on the BB. Perhaps not for awhile.
Very good point.
As I stated earlier, I started with just the 5lb DBs for OHP. Prior to my injury my best was a BB at 165lbsx3reps.
I've now worked up to the 65's for 5x5 but it's taken the full 9 months to get to that point. If I ever do get to around 80-82lbs DB it won't be for a long time if ever, and I'm cool with that.
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piperdown44 wrote: »Just realize you won't be able to do 1/2 the weight with DB as you had on the BB. Perhaps not for awhile.
Very good point.
As I stated earlier, I started with just the 5lb DBs for OHP. Prior to my injury my best was a BB at 165lbsx3reps.
I've now worked up to the 65's for 5x5 but it's taken the full 9 months to get to that point. If I ever do get to around 80-82lbs DB it won't be for a long time if ever, and I'm cool with that.
How did you determine your weight progression on the OHP with the DBs over those 9 months, out of curiosity?0 -
TLDR all the posts.........but just wanted to interject that shoulders (like lower backs) are VERY hard to "work around". They are can very easily be jacked up for the long term and should not be overlooked. Your shoulder is effected in so many movements I'd be hesitant to suggest any exercise aside from a casual bike ride and even then you have to watch leaning onto the handle bars (chair seat preffered). I once did a low grade seperation on my shoulder in a soccer game and could barely do anything without causing it to jostle my shoulder.
So unless you have a definite diagnosis, I would give yourself a few days off and rest it up good. Then slowly try some things that aren't directly hitting the shoulder and see if it was just tweaked. If pain persists I would definitely seek a professional diagnosis. You don't want to mess up your shoulder for good...........0 -
TLDR all the posts.........but just wanted to interject that shoulders (like lower backs) are VERY hard to "work around". They are can very easily be jacked up for the long term and should not be overlooked. Your shoulder is effected in so many movements I'd be hesitant to suggest any exercise aside from a casual bike ride and even then you have to watch leaning onto the handle bars (chair seat preffered). I once did a low grade seperation on my shoulder in a soccer game and could barely do anything without causing it to jostle my shoulder.
So unless you have a definite diagnosis, I would give yourself a few days off and rest it up good. Then slowly try some things that aren't directly hitting the shoulder and see if it was just tweaked. If pain persists I would definitely seek a professional diagnosis. You don't want to mess up your shoulder for good...........
Thanks for the advice- I am resting my shoulders for a week or two and re-evaluating then. I definitely don't want anything to progress.0 -
Penthesilea514 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Just realize you won't be able to do 1/2 the weight with DB as you had on the BB. Perhaps not for awhile.
Very good point.
As I stated earlier, I started with just the 5lb DBs for OHP. Prior to my injury my best was a BB at 165lbsx3reps.
I've now worked up to the 65's for 5x5 but it's taken the full 9 months to get to that point. If I ever do get to around 80-82lbs DB it won't be for a long time if ever, and I'm cool with that.
How did you determine your weight progression on the OHP with the DBs over those 9 months, out of curiosity?
I didn't with barbell OHP.
Just kept going with the DBs adding reps or going to higher weight DBs. As long as there wasn't any pain I moved up and continued.
Just started back with BB OHP a few weeks ago and I'm off by about 15lbs for the top end (did 7 reps at 135 where I was good for around 12 reps a year ago). Building back up slowly and listening to my body.0 -
I had two episodes of shoulder woe. The first, I let go for months and months until I had a frozen shoulder and then went to the dr who referred me to PT where I regained full range of motion. This first was caused by over-reaching when swimming (crawl), I finally decided. The second happened when my leashed (large) dog took off suddenly after a squirrel. I had a partial separation. I got into a Sports medicine clinic early on where I had a thorough evaluation and found that I am loosely strung and because of excessive flexibility, I will be prone to shoulder problems. So after another round of PT, where the therapist advised me against ANY OHP activity, I continued all the rehab exercises on my own and can manage DB OH & incline presses but I do not add weight quickly. So far, so good.0
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piperdown44 wrote: »Penthesilea514 wrote: »piperdown44 wrote: »Just realize you won't be able to do 1/2 the weight with DB as you had on the BB. Perhaps not for awhile.
Very good point.
As I stated earlier, I started with just the 5lb DBs for OHP. Prior to my injury my best was a BB at 165lbsx3reps.
I've now worked up to the 65's for 5x5 but it's taken the full 9 months to get to that point. If I ever do get to around 80-82lbs DB it won't be for a long time if ever, and I'm cool with that.
How did you determine your weight progression on the OHP with the DBs over those 9 months, out of curiosity?
I didn't with barbell OHP.
Just kept going with the DBs adding reps or going to higher weight DBs. As long as there wasn't any pain I moved up and continued.
Just started back with BB OHP a few weeks ago and I'm off by about 15lbs for the top end (did 7 reps at 135 where I was good for around 12 reps a year ago). Building back up slowly and listening to my body.
Okay, I was just curious if you did something to deliberately slow the DB weight progression over time to be careful. Sounds like you just started with the 5lbs and that was the way you slowed down adding weight back to the OHP. Thanks.0 -
I had two episodes of shoulder woe. The first, I let go for months and months until I had a frozen shoulder and then went to the dr who referred me to PT where I regained full range of motion. This first was caused by over-reaching when swimming (crawl), I finally decided. The second happened when my leashed (large) dog took off suddenly after a squirrel. I had a partial separation. I got into a Sports medicine clinic early on where I had a thorough evaluation and found that I am loosely strung and because of excessive flexibility, I will be prone to shoulder problems. So after another round of PT, where the therapist advised me against ANY OHP activity, I continued all the rehab exercises on my own and can manage DB OH & incline presses but I do not add weight quickly. So far, so good.
Yikes, I am sorry that sounds painful. I am glad you are on the mend.
I am feeling better with just a few days of rest and I feel like that is a good sign, so I will just keep resting until I am totally pain free for a week or so before starting my press exercises again- unless I stop getting better after a few weeks, and then I will see a doctor.0 -
Penthesilea514 wrote: »I had two episodes of shoulder woe. The first, I let go for months and months until I had a frozen shoulder and then went to the dr who referred me to PT where I regained full range of motion. This first was caused by over-reaching when swimming (crawl), I finally decided. The second happened when my leashed (large) dog took off suddenly after a squirrel. I had a partial separation. I got into a Sports medicine clinic early on where I had a thorough evaluation and found that I am loosely strung and because of excessive flexibility, I will be prone to shoulder problems. So after another round of PT, where the therapist advised me against ANY OHP activity, I continued all the rehab exercises on my own and can manage DB OH & incline presses but I do not add weight quickly. So far, so good.
Yikes, I am sorry that sounds painful. I am glad you are on the mend.
I am feeling better with just a few days of rest and I feel like that is a good sign, so I will just keep resting until I am totally pain free for a week or so before starting my press exercises again- unless I stop getting better after a few weeks, and then I will see a doctor.
Note that the pain might go into hibernation when you are resting for a few weeks and that when you get back at the weights, the pain might come back again like what happened to me when I came back from a 2 week holiday thinking I was cured because my shoulder felt perfect. Not saying this will happen to you but just in case it does.
Also when I mentioned in my original comment about sports teams taking out OHP from their routines, I was referring to sport teams on this side of the Atlantic in Ireland and England such as rugby and soccer teams. I dont know what the situation is with sports teams in America.1 -
jdscrubs32 wrote: »Penthesilea514 wrote: »I had two episodes of shoulder woe. The first, I let go for months and months until I had a frozen shoulder and then went to the dr who referred me to PT where I regained full range of motion. This first was caused by over-reaching when swimming (crawl), I finally decided. The second happened when my leashed (large) dog took off suddenly after a squirrel. I had a partial separation. I got into a Sports medicine clinic early on where I had a thorough evaluation and found that I am loosely strung and because of excessive flexibility, I will be prone to shoulder problems. So after another round of PT, where the therapist advised me against ANY OHP activity, I continued all the rehab exercises on my own and can manage DB OH & incline presses but I do not add weight quickly. So far, so good.
Yikes, I am sorry that sounds painful. I am glad you are on the mend.
I am feeling better with just a few days of rest and I feel like that is a good sign, so I will just keep resting until I am totally pain free for a week or so before starting my press exercises again- unless I stop getting better after a few weeks, and then I will see a doctor.
Note that the pain might go into hibernation when you are resting for a few weeks and that when you get back at the weights, the pain might come back again like what happened to me when I came back from a 2 week holiday thinking I was cured because my shoulder felt perfect. Not saying this will happen to you but just in case it does.
Also when I mentioned in my original comment about sports teams taking out OHP from their routines, I was referring to sport teams on this side of the Atlantic in Ireland and England such as rugby and soccer teams. I dont know what the situation is with sports teams in America.
Well, if that happens that will be a different situation- but thanks for the tip.
I will just see how things go with my rest before I decide what route I will take with OHP in my programming.0
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