Lifters, can you please explain what the difference...

tracieangeletti

What is the difference between a 5 sets 5 reps program and a 3 sets 10 reps program? I'm doing a program that is 3 sets 10 reps and using the major compound lifts and one of the ladies at the gym said that was too many reps. What? Wouldn't you get the same benefits no matter the sets and reps? I'm lifting to, of course, gain strength but also to get rid of all the "extra" I still got left on me. So is one program better than the other for my needs? Also, should I be concerned that my program is five days a week using each day for specific areas rather than the three day programs that have you repeat those areas?

JoRocka

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy

hypertrophy
Strength training[edit]
Main article: Strength training
Strength training typically produces a combination of the two different types of hypertrophy: contraction against 80 to 90% of the one repetition maximum for 2–6 repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate (as in powerlifters, Olympic lifters and strength athletes), while several repetitions (generally 8 – 12 for bodybuilding or 12 or more for muscular endurance) against a sub-maximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes).[citation needed] The first measurable effect is an increase in the neural drive stimulating muscle contraction. Within just a few days, an untrained individual can achieve measurable strength gains resulting from "learning" to use the muscle.[citation needed] As the muscle continues to receive increased demands, the synthetic machinery is upregulated. Although all the steps are not yet clear, this upregulation appears to begin with the ubiquitous second messenger system (including phospholipases, protein kinase C, tyrosine kinase, and others).[citation needed] These, in turn, activate the family of immediate-early genes, including c-fos, c-jun and myc. These genes appear to dictate the contractile protein gene response.[citation needed]
Progressive overload is considered the most important principle behind hypertrophy, so increasing the weight, repetitions (reps), and sets will all have a positive impact on growth. Some experts create complicated plans that manipulate weight, reps, and sets, increasing one while decreasing the others to keep the schedule varied and less repetitive.

bokodasu

There's nothing wrong with either program, but you're doing more of a bodybuilder program, and a 5x5 is geared more towards strength. A 5x5 or similar probably would get you to your goals faster, so it's not a bad idea to look into something like Stronglifts or Starting Strength if that's what you want to do.

Most of the difference comes from the fact that you can lift heavier weights the fewer reps you do per set, so you'd go up in weight if you switched, but the programs will walk you through all that.

tracieangeletti

Ok, read that twice and if I understood it correctly it's saying that it doesn't matter the sets or reps?

jacksonpt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_hypertrophy

hypertrophy
Strength training[edit]
Main article: Strength training
Strength training typically produces a combination of the two different types of hypertrophy: contraction against 80 to 90% of the one repetition maximum for 2–6 repetitions (reps) causes myofibrillated hypertrophy to dominate (as in powerlifters, Olympic lifters and strength athletes), while several repetitions (generally 8 – 12 for bodybuilding or 12 or more for muscular endurance) against a sub-maximal load facilitates mainly sarcoplasmic hypertrophy (professional bodybuilders and endurance athletes).[citation needed] The first measurable effect is an increase in the neural drive stimulating muscle contraction. Within just a few days, an untrained individual can achieve measurable strength gains resulting from "learning" to use the muscle.[citation needed] As the muscle continues to receive increased demands, the synthetic machinery is upregulated. Although all the steps are not yet clear, this upregulation appears to begin with the ubiquitous second messenger system (including phospholipases, protein kinase C, tyrosine kinase, and others).[citation needed] These, in turn, activate the family of immediate-early genes, including c-fos, c-jun and myc. These genes appear to dictate the contractile protein gene response.[citation needed]
Progressive overload is considered the most important principle behind hypertrophy, so increasing the weight, repetitions (reps), and sets will all have a positive impact on growth. Some experts create complicated plans that manipulate weight, reps, and sets, increasing one while decreasing the others to keep the schedule varied and less repetitive.

Yes, that. So, depending on your goals, one may or may not be more "appropriate" for you.

erickirb

Ok, read that twice and if I understood it correctly it's saying that it doesn't matter the sets or reps?

No it does matter.

the 8-12 rep range is more geared from muscle growth, with some strength gains, the 2-6 rep range is geared for strength gains with a small amount of muscle growth, though for both rep ranges to achieve muscle growth you would have to be in a caloric surplus.

Both rep ranges will help you retain your lean muscle in a caloric deficit, but you will get stronger faster with the lower rep range programs.

clarkeje1

bump

tracieangeletti

Well right now vanity is screaming out to lose the flab that I still have. Don't get me wrong, I want strength as well but losing the extra is my main focus for now. Should I switch to a 5x5?

tross0924

It's 2 different ways of stressing the muscles.

5 sets of 5 reps allows you to work with a heavier weight. Working with a heavier weight allows you to work with an even heavier weight next time.

3 sets of 10 allows more muscle fibers to be recruited. As the main muscles start to get tired more muscle fibers are used to lift the weight. Working more muscle fibers allows for more muscle damage and therefore more muscle growth.

Either way will work for getting rid of the "extra", and either way will work for getting stronger. You will get stronger faster if you use heavier weights and lower reps though as this allows for the main muscles to be stressed more. By the same token, you'll get bigger faster using a higher rep range and lighter weight. Both programs will result in strength gains, and both programs will result in muscle growth, but one will be secondary to the other depending on which program you pick.

The 5 day a week 5 body part split is in line with a program designed to build muscle, allowing a full week for the body to repair itself before stressors are placed on the same area. The reason for 3 day programs that repeat the same area is mainly for beginning lifters who are seeing strength gains more from neurological adaptation and increased storage in the muscle rather than from tissue damage that needs to be repaired which requires less time to "heal" from.

JenMc14

Just to add, remember you'd be lifting heavier weights in a 5x5 than you would in a 10x3. In either program, you should lift a weight that fatigues you at the end of the set, so obviously fewer reps = higher weight for fatigue. If you're eating at a surplus and doing 10x3, you'll see muscle gains with some strength gains, but muscle growth being the focus. If you do 5x5, at a surplus, you'll see strength increase, but can also build muscle, it's just that strength is the focus. If you're still working at a deficit, either one will help you reach your goal of retaining muscle and getting bit of the last bit of fat.

HeidiMightyRawr

5x5 is more focused on strength. 3x10 is more focused on hypertrophy/endurance. They both have their place, neither is useless, but they both do different things.

Generally:

<6 reps = strength

8-12 reps = hypertrophy/size (assuming you're eating enough, don't worry about this if you're in a deficit)

12-15 reps and above = endurance.

NavyKnightAh13

bumping for later reading

kevinjb1

Great info here. In so I can read back over later.

cwolfman13

Well right now vanity is screaming out to lose the flab that I still have. Don't get me wrong, I want strength as well but losing the extra is my main focus for now. Should I switch to a 5x5?

It's largely irrelevant in RE to "losing the flab." Losing the flab is simply calorie deficit. Lifting, either for strength or hypertrophy is simply going to maintain what muscle you have underneath that flab...so as you shed the flab due to your calorie deficit, you'll look more awesomer...

IMHO, you get a whole lot more out of a strength program while at a caloric deficit than you would a hypertrophy program. You can still make excellent strength gains on a calorie deficit...but hypertrophy is by and large impossible...so you'd be preserving your LBM, but making no headway into actually building more muscle...all the while, sacrificing potential strength gains.

DeeBrownBaker

great information! I just started lifting and I much rather prefer the lower reps/higher weight...

strongmindstrongbody

It's 2 different ways of stressing the muscles.

5 sets of 5 reps allows you to work with a heavier weight. Working with a heavier weight allows you to work with an even heavier weight next time.

3 sets of 10 allows more muscle fibers to be recruited. As the main muscles start to get tired more muscle fibers are used to lift the weight. Working more muscle fibers allows for more muscle damage and therefore more muscle growth.

Either way will work for getting rid of the "extra", and either way will work for getting stronger. You will get stronger faster if you use heavier weights and lower reps though as this allows for the main muscles to be stressed more. By the same token, you'll get bigger faster using a higher rep range and lighter weight. Both programs will result in strength gains, and both programs will result in muscle growth, but one will be secondary to the other depending on which program you pick.

The 5 day a week 5 body part split is in line with a program designed to build muscle, allowing a full week for the body to repair itself before stressors are placed on the same area. The reason for 3 day programs that repeat the same area is mainly for beginning lifters who are seeing strength gains more from neurological adaptation and increased storage in the muscle rather than from tissue damage that needs to be repaired which requires less time to "heal" from.

Thank you for such a clear explanation!

da_bears10089

My opinion is a little biased because i loved Stronglifts. There is something about progressing in your working weight that is addicting. Right now i do 3x5 because my weight is getting up there to the point where i don't think i can get to a 5x5. But then after a few months, switch up your rep range for a few weeks.

LongIsland27itl

You will not likely notice a differance I'm hmm body composition doing one of thoes routines over the other. Dont sweat it.

Cassierocksalot

Because I see the benefits in both, I do both lol. I do 5X5 with my husband 3 times a week in the mornings and more of a 3X10 program with my trainer 2 times a week in the evenings. That along with 3-4 times a week of cardio (steep incline, 45 minutes) has seen a dramatic improvement in both my body shape and strength.

tracieangeletti

Trying to lift as heavy as I can and add 5 lbs to the bar each time but finding that really hard to do on upper body lifts. Today I struggled with my 70 lb bench press. I couldn't do the full 10 reps on each set so I added a smaller set of 6 reps to make up the difference. Deadlifts I'm at 105 lbs and adding weight every time. Squats will be at 100 lbs this week. Overhead press is a weak 50 lbs. If I went 5x5 I could lift more? I'm only on my 8th week with this program... thinking about switching.

lemur_lady

Ah this is all great info! Thanks OP for posting!

If I can pose my own question along a similar line:

Which will make me look better once I have shed the excess fat? Will one give me a leaner look than the other or are they both equal?

What I have been doing is using low weight/high rep to 'warm up' then doing high weight/low rep for the main part, then end doing more low weight/high rep to wind down. Is this an acceptable way of doing it?