Of refeeds and diet breaks
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Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Need some advice from you lovely people.
At of the beginning of the year after reading this thread, I restarted diet/refeed days. I did great for about a month, lost 4 kg.
Then, I got sick. And then, it was lunar new year in this part of town, which means ungodly amounts of social eating, visiting, sitting around for like 10 days. I gained 2 of the 4 kg back (figured some of it was water weight).
I finally got back on a deficit this week, planning to do a refeed after 7 days of dieting (since that's when glycogen stores get depleted), and then continue on to a refeed day every 5th and 7th day of the week (as I was doing regularly that first month).
First four days, I was hungry, cranky, but whatever, eating less sucks. I managed it (1.500 cals for a gal that maintains at 2,090).
Yesterday, I was on track for meeting my goal basically all day, and then things happened that made me very emotional and angry with myself. So I binged. Brownies, beans, oranges, anything I could get my hands on until my stomach hurt.
Long story short: yesterday I emotionally and in an unplanned way, ate over cals.
Here's the question: do I start my 7 day count all over again? Or do I consider it a "refeed" day? Except because of the binge, I don't feel I got the mental and emotional break from dieting that refeeds usually give me (and that help with lowering stress). Instead I'm more stressed.
Do I ignore it and stay with the plan to have a refeed in two days?....But at that point am I even on a diet, considering it would push me further from having a deficit at all this week?
Would love to hear your ideas about where to go from here.
I think given that for you part of it is the mental break, if still doing a refeed/maintenance day will give you that, then do it. Doesn't really matter if you end up with little or no deficit for the week, unless that in itself is going to stress you more. It would obviously be an issue if it kept happening, because as you say, at that point are you even on a diet? But as a one off, it's fine.4 -
I've had a friend staying for the past few days while she's home from the UK for a holiday. I foresee a couple of weeks at a deficit in my future...7
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The advice given is great already.
Indeed, don't have to have a deficit everyday, nor the same everyday, to still be in an overall deficit.
If you mentally need the break for long term success, better to have it now.
And just so you can think about it accurately, you actually aren't depleting glucose stores after 7 days of dieting. Not by a long shot.
Just didn't want some misunderstanding getting passed on.
Now, if your workouts are nothing but hard lifting and intervals, and you eat no carbs, then perhaps by the end of 7 days you could be depleted.
But that is doubtful and a very purposeful diet.6 -
I'm a long time lurker of this thread and have to say I love it. I've always done diet breaks throughout my weightloss and people always looked at me like I was crazy.
Just had to tell you all you helped reaffirm my sanity lol.14 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: ».
I think given that for you part of it is the mental break, if still doing a refeed/maintenance day will give you that, then do it.
Thank you for your input. I think I'll do that.And just so you can think about it accurately, you actually aren't depleting glucose stores after 7 days of dieting. Not by a long shot.
Just didn't want some misunderstanding getting passed on.
I thought I heard Lyle say in a podcast that leptin (or was it grehlin?) could show signs of increase in as little as a 7 day deficit? Anyways, that's obviously not the same as depleting glycogen stores, so I must have misread/misunderstood something along the way. Thanks for the correction, I appreciate it.3 -
OK I am meal planning prior to the Sainsbury's shop in earnest and I just have to say there's way too many exclamation marks. Hot cross buns! Pikelets! Hot cross buns! Pikelets! (This is a direct quote, haha)2
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Leptin and ghrelin have an inverse relationship. It takes a few days for hormonal down regulation to occur, so as fat stores start depleting, leptin (think satiety hormone) decreases and ghrelin (hunger hormone) increases. Long term dieters understand this as feeling ravenously hungry after an extended period of dieting.
Females have supremely confounding factors into all of this as hormones do drive a lot of the craving periods and emotional stress, which would be another plug into buying the women's book by Lyle if you want to try delving deep into why it's never just CICO or just hormones. It's both and sometimes timing strategies between diets and activity might need to be tailored to your personal profile.
As @heybales clarified, glycogen depletion is deliberate. In order to adequately say you have depleted them, you would have to exhaust liver glycogen via very low carb intake, and exhaust muscle glycogen via total body resistance/endurance training throughout the week.7 -
Terebynthia wrote: »OK I am meal planning prior to the Sainsbury's shop in earnest and I just have to say there's way too many exclamation marks. Hot cross buns! Pikelets! Hot cross buns! Pikelets! (This is a direct quote, haha)
Ok maybe off-topic but you just made me massively miss my years in London. Funny what little things will kick that off. Taste the difference *sniff*5 -
Just dropping in to share that I've successfully maintained within .5 lbs. for 4 WEEKS!! Thanks to all the thoughtful responses and suggestions in this thread. I'm keeping a spread sheet and charting my gross and net calories, and slowly learning to trust the numbers. I've had a few issues with putting the brakes on weight loss mode but I'm getting a good handle on that and figure that within the next 4 weeks eating at maintenance will be as much a habit as eating in a deficit was.
I don't even have the words to describe how different my life is now. When I created my profile I was sick, exhausted and scared. I'm none of those things now, and it was the journey from there to here that created that change. I truly believe that if the weight loss fairy had tapped me with her wand and melted away 50 lbs. on the spot I would just be a thinner version of my depressed, unhappy self. I needed to go through the process, experience failure and learn to let it go, learn to embrace success as an outcome of my own efforts, not luck.
I also wanted to share that I just got the results of my labs for my annual physical, and every single number is within normal range, for the first time in years!26 -
Just dropping in to share that I've successfully maintained within .5 lbs. for 4 WEEKS!! Thanks to all the thoughtful responses and suggestions in this thread. I'm keeping a spread sheet and charting my gross and net calories, and slowly learning to trust the numbers. I've had a few issues with putting the brakes on weight loss mode but I'm getting a good handle on that and figure that within the next 4 weeks eating at maintenance will be as much a habit as eating in a deficit was.
I don't even have the words to describe how different my life is now. When I created my profile I was sick, exhausted and scared. I'm none of those things now, and it was the journey from there to here that created that change. I truly believe that if the weight loss fairy had tapped me with her wand and melted away 50 lbs. on the spot I would just be a thinner version of my depressed, unhappy self. I needed to go through the process, experience failure and learn to let it go, learn to embrace success as an outcome of my own efforts, not luck.
I also wanted to share that I just got the results of my labs for my annual physical, and every single number is within normal range, for the first time in years!
Wow! That is just wonderful!
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Just dropping in to share that I've successfully maintained within .5 lbs. for 4 WEEKS!! Thanks to all the thoughtful responses and suggestions in this thread. I'm keeping a spread sheet and charting my gross and net calories, and slowly learning to trust the numbers. I've had a few issues with putting the brakes on weight loss mode but I'm getting a good handle on that and figure that within the next 4 weeks eating at maintenance will be as much a habit as eating in a deficit was.
I don't even have the words to describe how different my life is now. When I created my profile I was sick, exhausted and scared. I'm none of those things now, and it was the journey from there to here that created that change. I truly believe that if the weight loss fairy had tapped me with her wand and melted away 50 lbs. on the spot I would just be a thinner version of my depressed, unhappy self. I needed to go through the process, experience failure and learn to let it go, learn to embrace success as an outcome of my own efforts, not luck.
I also wanted to share that I just got the results of my labs for my annual physical, and every single number is within normal range, for the first time in years!
That's completely spectacular! I'm genuinely glad you've been able to find the sweet spot. You hit it perfectly well with the experience bringing you to where you are now. You've essentially hit "diet enlightenment" meaning the cumulative ups and downs led you to this point where health management is beyond just looking at measurable number values, but the quality of life, which just so happens to coincide.
Interestingly enough, that's the idea behind why the recommendation to follow a slow process of fat loss is recommended. It's not because fat loss should be slow - that can actually happen rapidly - but it's the long-term goal of learning to properly maintain it that drives that advice.
As an aside, I lost the bulk of my weight very rapidly; so fast in fact, that I couldn't psychologically adapt quick enough and developed several disordered thoughts along the way. I don't regret any of it since it allows me to at least be partially empathetic, if not at least provide some sort of insight/forewarning.
But you deserve to feel successful. This is an accomplishment many people struggle to find.
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*waves meekly* I'm still here! Increased Synthroid is mostly helping things be as they should be, which is excellent.
But right now, I'm largely impressed at how the half marathon recovery has been. Major perks to having a dietitian and a sports med person who knew what they were doing this time around -- before including air travel and sodium (dang, Disney food got tasty), I've gained *half* of what I expected to gain after the race. (Normal post-half water impact is about 3 percent for me -- I'm only at 1.5 percent this morning.) When you consider that flying usually gives me 2 percent, and sodium another 1.5, this is *excellent*. I'm much less panicky about this post-race gain than I usually am, considering that even with all of these factors, it's still not as high as I was expecting it to be.
Besides. My race percentile was *awesome* this time -- finished right in the middle of my division, gender as a whole, and the overall pool. I am thrilled.19 -
collectingblues wrote: »*waves meekly* I'm still here! Increased Synthroid is mostly helping things be as they should be, which is excellent.
But right now, I'm largely impressed at how the half marathon recovery has been. Major perks to having a dietitian and a sports med person who knew what they were doing this time around -- before including air travel and sodium (dang, Disney food got tasty), I've gained *half* of what I expected to gain after the race. (Normal post-half water impact is about 3 percent for me -- I'm only at 1.5 percent this morning.) When you consider that flying usually gives me 2 percent, and sodium another 1.5, this is *excellent*. I'm much less panicky about this post-race gain than I usually am, considering that even with all of these factors, it's still not as high as I was expecting it to be.
Besides. My race percentile was *awesome* this time -- finished right in the middle of my division, gender as a whole, and the overall pool. I am thrilled.
Clicking the "Awesome" button! :drinker:
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Did it again. Had a hungry day yesterday. Ate some potato chips, logged them. Still had room for the pizza I had planned for dinner and managed a small deficit for the day while still hitting protein targets.
I will be happy once the chips aren't in the house any more, though. I do have to say that. My son wanted them. They are a weakness of mine. I'm glad I'm giving in in a somewhat controlled fashion, though.
You might like these, they solve my need for savory at 100 calories a pack (7 grams protein, 5 grams fiber, 3 grams fat). Enlightened Broad Bean Snacks.2 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Need some advice from you lovely people.
At of the beginning of the year after reading this thread, I restarted diet/refeed days. I did great for about a month, lost 4 kg.
Then, I got sick. And then, it was lunar new year in this part of town, which means ungodly amounts of social eating, visiting, sitting around for like 10 days. I gained 2 of the 4 kg back (figured some of it was water weight).
I finally got back on a deficit this week, planning to do a refeed after 7 days of dieting (since that's when glycogen stores get depleted), and then continue on to a refeed day every 5th and 7th day of the week (as I was doing regularly that first month).
First four days, I was hungry, cranky, but whatever, eating less sucks. I managed it (1.500 cals for a gal that maintains at 2,090).
Yesterday, I was on track for meeting my goal basically all day, and then things happened that made me very emotional and angry with myself. So I binged. Brownies, beans, oranges, anything I could get my hands on until my stomach hurt.
Long story short: yesterday I emotionally and in an unplanned way, ate over cals.
Here's the question: do I start my 7 day count all over again? Or do I consider it a "refeed" day? Except because of the binge, I don't feel I got the mental and emotional break from dieting that refeeds usually give me (and that help with lowering stress). Instead I'm more stressed.
Do I ignore it and stay with the plan to have a refeed in two days?....But at that point am I even on a diet, considering it would push me further from having a deficit at all this week?
Would love to hear your ideas about where to go from here.
No advice, but I do sympathize - between a bout of the flu and a few sloppy nights out, I inadvertently maintained for most of this month. Whoops! Well, that's life, and life happens, and there's nothing to do but move on. *hugs*4 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »Need some advice from you lovely people.
At of the beginning of the year after reading this thread, I restarted diet/refeed days. I did great for about a month, lost 4 kg.
Then, I got sick. And then, it was lunar new year in this part of town, which means ungodly amounts of social eating, visiting, sitting around for like 10 days. I gained 2 of the 4 kg back (figured some of it was water weight).
I finally got back on a deficit this week, planning to do a refeed after 7 days of dieting (since that's when glycogen stores get depleted), and then continue on to a refeed day every 5th and 7th day of the week (as I was doing regularly that first month).
First four days, I was hungry, cranky, but whatever, eating less sucks. I managed it (1.500 cals for a gal that maintains at 2,090).
Yesterday, I was on track for meeting my goal basically all day, and then things happened that made me very emotional and angry with myself. So I binged. Brownies, beans, oranges, anything I could get my hands on until my stomach hurt.
Long story short: yesterday I emotionally and in an unplanned way, ate over cals.
Here's the question: do I start my 7 day count all over again? Or do I consider it a "refeed" day? Except because of the binge, I don't feel I got the mental and emotional break from dieting that refeeds usually give me (and that help with lowering stress). Instead I'm more stressed.
Do I ignore it and stay with the plan to have a refeed in two days?....But at that point am I even on a diet, considering it would push me further from having a deficit at all this week?
Would love to hear your ideas about where to go from here.
As a partial solution, maybe a smaller deficit so you can eat more? 1750? Taking a look at your macros as tweaking them a bit to see if you can feel fuller longer. For some reason quinoa and those konjac "newdles" are soooo filling for me (no, I don't eat them together).
And, it seems the binge may not have been due to hunger alone. If emotions are driving your eating, you can still binge on a refeed day. Go to the source--why the binge? And what strategies can you put in place to help you go in another direction? And I think getting outside help can be the most productive.
Good luck! 3 -
Ah! That's helpful. Thank you. I still have a lot to learn and I appreciate the clarification in termsLeptin and ghrelin have an inverse relationship. It takes a few days for hormonal down regulation to occur, so as fat stores start depleting, leptin (think satiety hormone) decreases and ghrelin (hunger hormone) increases. Long term dieters understand this as feeling ravenously hungry after an extended period of dieting.
Thanks for the hug! Right back at you. Maintaining is better than backtracking though, so good job on not going completely off track :-)MegaMooseEsq wrote: »
No advice, but I do sympathize - between a bout of the flu and a few sloppy nights out, I inadvertently maintained for most of this month. Whoops! Well, that's life, and life happens, and there's nothing to do but move on. *hugs*Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »
Yes, it's absolutely not just hunger. 1500 cals is actually not too bad for me once I get past the first week of hangriness and get used to the "new normal". I used to binge even when I was not restricting calories, which is probably a factor in why I was overweight for so long. You're right in pointing out the need to figure out the reason for the binge... My husband and I are reading a book on Habits together and after this last binge he helped me think through the cues, rewards, etc that trigger this kind of episode for me. I used to binge in secret so it's almost a relief to have someone to talk to openly about it who is not judgemental but really just wants to see me do well.
And, it seems the binge may not have been due to hunger alone. If emotions are driving your eating, you can still binge on a refeed day. Go to the source--why the binge? And what strategies can you put in place to help you go in another direction? And I think getting outside help can be the most productive.Good luck!Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »
Taking the advice here and going on as planned with the next refeed day was also helpful. It kind of "reset" the week for me so instead of feeling like the binge threw everything off track, it's like it never happened and I can get back to normal.
Thanks for all the kind words! Best thread on MFP 9 -
Bump up so that @samib901 can find the thread.
Probably should have linked the thread directly, but hopefully she finds it.
On an unrelated note, I'm developing new calluses that are probably going to hurt if I pick at them. I think I'm in dire need of a manicure and hand treatment
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