Of refeeds and diet breaks
Options
Replies
-
alteredstates175 wrote: »
In my MFP settings I swapped sugar for fibre in the main window that displays macros, and put the fibre just to the right of the carbs so I can do the subtraction of carbs - fibre = net carbs automatically. Would that help?bmeadows380 wrote: »okay. If one wanted to look into low carb and very low carb diets, what are the best sources for sane advice and guidance on getting started? I just recently heard the lament that MFP only counted total carbs and not net; would someone doing low carb have to mentally make that calculation difference here?
@bmeadows380 - There's an add-in for the MFP app that calculates net carbs.
https://cavemanketo.com/configuring-mfp/
I've used it for several months now and it works well.
@Alteredstates175 ,
Thanks for posting this!...I didn't know such a thing existed but it's quite useful since I'm diabetic and need to adjust my insulin dosage based on "Net Carbs" not "Total Carbs".
I tried this script out on the Chrome & FireFox browsers and it worked great, plus, I like how it also shows the Net Carbs for each meal and not just for the total for the day at the bottom. The "pie charts" added to the bottom of the diary give a nice overview of the overall macro (protein, fat & net carbs) breakdown in terms of grams & % of calories.
2 -
BarneyRubbleMD wrote: »alteredstates175 wrote: »
@bmeadows380 - There's an add-in for the MFP app that calculates net carbs.
https://cavemanketo.com/configuring-mfp/
I've used it for several months now and it works well.
@Alteredstates175 ,
Thanks for posting this!...I didn't know such a thing existed but it's quite useful since I'm diabetic and need to adjust my insulin dosage based on "Net Carbs" not "Total Carbs".
I tried this script out on the Chrome & FireFox browsers and it worked great, plus, I like how it also shows the Net Carbs for each meal and not just for the total for the day at the bottom. The "pie charts" added to the bottom of the diary give a nice overview of the overall macro (protein, fat & net carbs) breakdown in terms of grams & % of calories.
Glad to be of service. I realize now that a lot of people are not aware of this enhancement. Perhaps I should spread the word.
0 -
I didn't realize it was an add in app. Thank you!
good news is that I really expected my sister to drop out, but she buckled down and recorded her calories and was very happy to see a 5 lb loss today! Now I know its water weight, but I really hope it provides the positive reinforcement to keep going!7 -
Remember that among the three macros, carbs and fat are the worst combination to pair together for optimal body composition. They're competing substrates for fuel in the body and it can only burn one or the other, and carbs/glucose is always first in line to be used as fuel. Fat goes straight to storage*. On the other hand, it's really hard to overeat animal protein, so people who like to eat a lot tend to not prefer them.bmeadows380 wrote: »
*Digested fat always goes to storage, but circulates out when insulin levels are low enough to meter them out via lipolysis. Glucose spikes increase insulin levels which halts lipolysis.
I think it sounds like there's solid science behind this, but it really strikes me as woo-ish. I remember doing a diet in my teens that didn't allow me to eat carbs and fat together, it had to be primarily fat and protein or carbs and protein, and not the same protein at each meal. Ugh, like many of the other diets I did in those days, I lost 10 kg and then proceeded to binge them all back and then some.
If the bolded is true (which I'm not saying it's not, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the implications), then isn't it best to only eat one or the other so that fat gets used as fuel, and doesn't go directly into storage? But I thought having all three macro nutrients in each meal was a good thing?...0 -
Remember that among the three macros, carbs and fat are the worst combination to pair together for optimal body composition. They're competing substrates for fuel in the body and it can only burn one or the other, and carbs/glucose is always first in line to be used as fuel. Fat goes straight to storage*. On the other hand, it's really hard to overeat animal protein, so people who like to eat a lot tend to not prefer them.
*Digested fat always goes to storage, but circulates out when insulin levels are low enough to meter them out via lipolysis. Glucose spikes increase insulin levels which halts lipolysis.
So this is where the demonizing of sugar or carbs on their own is a no-no? In the UK, dunno about anywhere else, they are making sugar the latest demon (sugar tax, making sugary things smaller and even lowering the sugar in some drinks), used to be fat, red meat, blah blah, now carbs (especially sugar). They forget the scientific part that specifies overeating fat plus carbs = danger, and as you said anubis609, this is what most people tend to eat in abundance. I have had so many arguments with folks lately about sugar being the bad, bad thing making people obese. How do you get this across to peeps not into researching or reading around stuff? I mean layman's terms...sorry just venting a little...also the overeating bit..
3 -
nexangelus wrote: »Remember that among the three macros, carbs and fat are the worst combination to pair together for optimal body composition. They're competing substrates for fuel in the body and it can only burn one or the other, and carbs/glucose is always first in line to be used as fuel. Fat goes straight to storage*. On the other hand, it's really hard to overeat animal protein, so people who like to eat a lot tend to not prefer them.
*Digested fat always goes to storage, but circulates out when insulin levels are low enough to meter them out via lipolysis. Glucose spikes increase insulin levels which halts lipolysis.
So this is where the demonizing of sugar or carbs on their own is a no-no? In the UK, dunno about anywhere else, they are making sugar the latest demon (sugar tax, making sugary things smaller and even lowering the sugar in some drinks), used to be fat, red meat, blah blah, now carbs (especially sugar). They forget the scientific part that specifies overeating fat plus carbs = danger, and as you said anubis609, this is what most people tend to eat in abundance. I have had so many arguments with folks lately about sugar being the bad, bad thing making people obese. How do you get this across to peeps not into researching or reading around stuff? I mean layman's terms...sorry just venting a little...also the overeating bit..
So fat only goes "straight to storage" when eating at a caloric surplus? Not just whenever it's consumed at the same time as carbs? That already makes more sense. Phew!1 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »nexangelus wrote: »Remember that among the three macros, carbs and fat are the worst combination to pair together for optimal body composition. They're competing substrates for fuel in the body and it can only burn one or the other, and carbs/glucose is always first in line to be used as fuel. Fat goes straight to storage*. On the other hand, it's really hard to overeat animal protein, so people who like to eat a lot tend to not prefer them.
*Digested fat always goes to storage, but circulates out when insulin levels are low enough to meter them out via lipolysis. Glucose spikes increase insulin levels which halts lipolysis.
So this is where the demonizing of sugar or carbs on their own is a no-no? In the UK, dunno about anywhere else, they are making sugar the latest demon (sugar tax, making sugary things smaller and even lowering the sugar in some drinks), used to be fat, red meat, blah blah, now carbs (especially sugar). They forget the scientific part that specifies overeating fat plus carbs = danger, and as you said anubis609, this is what most people tend to eat in abundance. I have had so many arguments with folks lately about sugar being the bad, bad thing making people obese. How do you get this across to peeps not into researching or reading around stuff? I mean layman's terms...sorry just venting a little...also the overeating bit..
So fat only goes "straight to storage" when eating at a caloric surplus? Not just whenever it's consumed at the same time as carbs? That already makes more sense. Phew!
Well, not really.
Upwards of 90% of your energy source for the day as a whole is still fat, anyone with detailed metabolic/RMR test results can show that. As activity level increases in intensity then more of it becomes glucose. So depends on how active you are overall. 50/50 ratio is up in the aerobic zone if fit, down lower if you don't exercise much.
After eating then with insulin elevated, fat to storage since body is dealing with higher blood sugar immediately, potentially.
Once carb stores are filled in muscle and liver and blood sugar still high despite using it as energy source right then, gluconeogenesis and the carbs go to fat, insulin lowers - fat burning back on.
In a diet, the muscles stores usually are always below their potential.
So blood sugar lowers faster in a diet compared to not.
So you are back to fat-burning mode sooner, in fat-storage mode shorter - compared to no diet.
But for the specific commented scenario of body comp, carbs with protein will get everything filled up and protein shuttled off to where it's needed while insulin is up. The high % of fat source for energy is on pause until that happens and blood sugar back down. Then back to fat burning. But you are getting protein where it's needed.
Carbs with fat does fill the glucose stores still, but the fat is going to fat stores during that whole time.
Protein with fat still raises insulin, despite the claims made by some low carbers. Just not as fast or as high as carbs alone.
In an average diet, the day as a whole doesn't make as much of a difference as the fact of just being in a deficit.
Only if you were like major carby and when low would the differences in efficiency cause a tad more to be burned in processing food.
What happens after a meal and such may look different, but at the end of the day, same result - if all else kept the same like amount of protein at best levels.
It's like the claims of fasted workouts being a special benefit to weight loss - studies have shown not. Personal preference sure.7 -
Hungry_Shopgirl wrote: »
Remember that among the three macros, carbs and fat are the worst combination to pair together for optimal body composition. They're competing substrates for fuel in the body and it can only burn one or the other, and carbs/glucose is always first in line to be used as fuel. Fat goes straight to storage*. On the other hand, it's really hard to overeat animal protein, so people who like to eat a lot tend to not prefer them.bmeadows380 wrote: »
*Digested fat always goes to storage, but circulates out when insulin levels are low enough to meter them out via lipolysis. Glucose spikes increase insulin levels which halts lipolysis.
I think it sounds like there's solid science behind this, but it really strikes me as woo-ish. I remember doing a diet in my teens that didn't allow me to eat carbs and fat together, it had to be primarily fat and protein or carbs and protein, and not the same protein at each meal. Ugh, like many of the other diets I did in those days, I lost 10 kg and then proceeded to binge them all back and then some.
If the bolded is true (which I'm not saying it's not, I'm just trying to wrap my head around the implications), then isn't it best to only eat one or the other so that fat gets used as fuel, and doesn't go directly into storage? But I thought having all three macro nutrients in each meal was a good thing?...
I should clarify that it's a lot more complex than that, and the body is going to burn some form of them at any given time, especially in a deficit, but for simplicity's sake, the body tends to use more of the substrate it sees more; i.e. eat more carbs, use more carbs, eat more fat, use more fat (when exogenous glucose is low enough). Though, overfeeding studies have shown that it is completely possible to absolutely throttle fatty acid oxidation close to zero when carbs are overfed in extreme abundance, in addition to the reasons @heybales explained.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10365981;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7598063;
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/3165600;
https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article-abstract/62/1/19/4651677?redirectedFrom=PDF
In energy balance, glucose gets oxidative priority while fat gets metered out appropriately according to cellular energy status. Fat doesn't necessarily just hang around doing nothing, there's usually a constant rate of free fatty acids/non-esterified fatty acids and re-esterification as energy status and diet dictate (https://dm5migu4zj3pb.cloudfront.net/manuscripts/103000/103259/JCI56103259.pdf; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glyceroneogenesis).2 -
collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.
I've always eaten lowish carb (around 100-120) at a deficit, not because I think there's any magic in it, just because it's easier for me to create and sustain a deficit that way. Even at maintenance 150g a day would be the norm for me most of the time. I'm all about the protein, and the things I eat tend to be higher fat (I'm looking at you, avocado and halloumi, oh and dark choc pb in my shakes!), so by the time those two things are in there's not a lot of room left for carbs, and they're the thing I care least about. Nothing cultish about it, just basic maths. I just don't shout it from the rooftops that I'm technically low carb (if you subscribe to that meaning lower than 150g), because it's just the way I eat. Dropped that a little lower than normal the past few days simply to shift some of the unholy amount of water weight I was lugging around. Purely psychological, I know it isn't fat weight.
So there you go, I've always been moderately low carb, you just didn't know it
I've been doing the same thing, Nony. The dietitian had me doing a moderate low carb during the pre-race taper, to try to curb that taper weight gain and keep my brain from freaking out. I actually enjoyed it, and found it easier to do when I was focusing on protein more, so it seems to have stuck.
*slowly raises hand* I'm also low to moderate carb right now, just because that's how the macros land when I focus on protein. I would actually prefer to be higher carb since I'm ramping up my cycling and running, but I seem to be unconsciously reaching for the protein, fat and fiber trifecta.
Me, too. I've been really good at managing my macros for the last couple of months for roughly a 1/3 for each. My exercise has been crap for the last few weeks (though still getting steps) because of the 15 hour work days. But I keeping on track with what I can. I keep lots of food in my office, so even when there are emergency meetings, I can still manage my nutrition--at least the macros.
I have to say I feel you on the work hours cutting into activity time
I retired last May (sing hallelujah!) but for the 14 previous years I had a 4 hour daily commute and my activity was practically nothing outside of weekends. I'm impressed you're keeping up with your steps (I think you have a more or less sedentary job in mental health counselling?) Yeah, I ended up keeping a bunch of portioned out food in my office, because toward the end there I was hitting the snack machine for potato chips and snickers bars almost on the hour.
I do technically have a sedentary job. I'm closing in on one year of at least 10,000 steps every day, but the big things was the Step Bet I joined. I refuse to lose money over something which should be under my control (or so I think). My goals were quite a bit over 10,000/day (15,000/day four days a week and 18,000/day two days a week). I'd do some yoga on my own after to stretch and relax a bit. And use my pranamat.
I work on a large college campus and going from meeting to meeting really does help me with my steps.
The main threat has been gone for a week and is at home with their parents. Mom still thinks the student's diet might be part of the problem (it's not) and I am concerned for the mental health support the student might be getting at home. They should be in an in-patient or intensive outpatient treatment. They're not.
And of course, this situation happened at another school right in the middle of when we were responding to our student. Our student was hospitalized for mental health issues 4 times in about 5 weeks.
We've done everything we can possibly do and I still worry it's not enough.
And today I should get my fitness life back. It's spring break here and things are a little slower (knock on wood). Yoga tonight!
7 -
Anubis and Heybales, thanks for some great info and citations regarding calorie partitioning! Excellent stuff!
5 -
collectingblues wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I've finally read nearly all of this thread. But I need people to dumb things down for me.
@Nony_Mouse Why are you now doing "moderately low carb"? I must admit I cringe at the thought of one of my heroes going the low carb cult route, but knowing you, you will have a good reason.
I've always eaten lowish carb (around 100-120) at a deficit, not because I think there's any magic in it, just because it's easier for me to create and sustain a deficit that way. Even at maintenance 150g a day would be the norm for me most of the time. I'm all about the protein, and the things I eat tend to be higher fat (I'm looking at you, avocado and halloumi, oh and dark choc pb in my shakes!), so by the time those two things are in there's not a lot of room left for carbs, and they're the thing I care least about. Nothing cultish about it, just basic maths. I just don't shout it from the rooftops that I'm technically low carb (if you subscribe to that meaning lower than 150g), because it's just the way I eat. Dropped that a little lower than normal the past few days simply to shift some of the unholy amount of water weight I was lugging around. Purely psychological, I know it isn't fat weight.
So there you go, I've always been moderately low carb, you just didn't know it
I've been doing the same thing, Nony. The dietitian had me doing a moderate low carb during the pre-race taper, to try to curb that taper weight gain and keep my brain from freaking out. I actually enjoyed it, and found it easier to do when I was focusing on protein more, so it seems to have stuck.
*slowly raises hand* I'm also low to moderate carb right now, just because that's how the macros land when I focus on protein. I would actually prefer to be higher carb since I'm ramping up my cycling and running, but I seem to be unconsciously reaching for the protein, fat and fiber trifecta.
Me, too. I've been really good at managing my macros for the last couple of months for roughly a 1/3 for each. My exercise has been crap for the last few weeks (though still getting steps) because of the 15 hour work days. But I keeping on track with what I can. I keep lots of food in my office, so even when there are emergency meetings, I can still manage my nutrition--at least the macros.
I have to say I feel you on the work hours cutting into activity time I retired last May (sing hallelujah!) but for the 14 previous years I had a 4 hour daily commute and my activity was practically nothing outside of weekends. I'm impressed you're keeping up with your steps (I think you have a more or less sedentary job in mental health counselling?) Yeah, I ended up keeping a bunch of portioned out food in my office, because toward the end there I was hitting the snack machine for potato chips and snickers bars almost on the hour.
I do technically have a sedentary job. I'm closing in on one year of at least 10,000 steps every day, but the big things was the Step Bet I joined. I refuse to lose money over something which should be under my control (or so I think). My goals were quite a bit over 10,000/day (15,000/day four days a week and 18,000/day two days a week). I'd do some yoga on my own after to stretch and relax a bit. And use my pranamat.
I work on a large college campus and going from meeting to meeting really does help me with my steps.
The main threat has been gone for a week and is at home with their parents. Mom still thinks the student's diet might be part of the problem (it's not) and I am concerned for the mental health support the student might be getting at home. They should be in an in-patient or intensive outpatient treatment. They're not.
And of course, this situation happened at another school right in the middle of when we were responding to our student. Our student was hospitalized for mental health issues 4 times in about 5 weeks.
We've done everything we can possibly do and I still worry it's not enough.
And today I should get my fitness life back. It's spring break here and things are a little slower (knock on wood). Yoga tonight!
I'm not sure how bad a diet needs to be to warrant a psychiatric threat, barring pure starvation or any extreme diet methods. There are studies that suggest a balanced or improved diet, used in conjunction with therapy, aid in mental health improvement, but an underlying disorder needs to be addressed by a healthcare professional as you stated.0 -
Off topic, does anyone know how to get rid of notifications from specific threads? I replied to one of those chit chat dumb ones and now it's clogging up. I'm also one of those people who have OCD when it comes to notifications and have this incessant urge to check them lol.0
-
Wrong thread! Eeek!!!
And since I posted my thanks too to Anubis and Heybales for the great info. And a big hug to appropriately stressed Psychgrrl!4 -
Off topic, does anyone know how to get rid of notifications from specific threads? I replied to one of those chit chat dumb ones and now it's clogging up. I'm also one of those people who have OCD when it comes to notifications and have this incessant urge to check them lol.
Unfortunately I don't think you can turn off just one thread. I've made that mistake before and luckily chitchatters seem to move on pretty fast.0 -
The 55-65 year old women's thread doesn't. But it's slowed down at least.
Someone said Hey Bales and I heard and read and commented.0 -
Huh. I only get notifications for threads I've started, if I'm tagged, or if I click the star to follow. I feel this is a good thing!0
-
Go to notifications and then notification preferences. You should be able to make changes there.0
-
I just had the realisation that my projected maintenance calories for my UGW (still around 15–20 pounds from now) is the same as what I'm currently eating, so it looks like at some point I'm simply going to stop losing and that's how I'll know I'm 'done'. It's not even that low of a BMI - I'm talking about 120–125 pounds at 5'3" (middle of normal range, but I have a small frame; wrist measurement under 5.5", East Asian heritage). Being a short, old, sedentary woman blows sometimes.
I'm wondering if this realisation has any potential ramifications that I should be thinking about now, like 'take a diet break now while you still even have a deficit', as well as what this might mean, if anything, as far as metabolic or hormonal stuff in the long term. Like, that whole discussion on whether to gradually up one's calories to find maintenance level or jump immediately up to them is never going to be a thing for me. Yeesh.8 -
Go to notifications and then notification preferences. You should be able to make changes there.
Sadly those are universal changes, not just topics you wish you hadn't posted on or no longer want shown as new threads.
There is no way to remove them, suggestions have been made several times to MFP - never done.0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 392.1K Introduce Yourself
- 43.6K Getting Started
- 259.9K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.7K Food and Nutrition
- 47.4K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 403 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.8K Motivation and Support
- 7.9K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.4K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 999 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.4K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions