Of refeeds and diet breaks
Replies
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@nexangelus, sounds as if you're using a really good and methodological approach trying to get a right number for your surplus . Getting it right is tricky, isn't it?
@Nony_Mouse, never watched Pulp Fiction but that pic looks good.purplebobkat wrote: »This thread has helped me decide to partake in a diet break. I started on Saturday & plan to do a full 2 weeks.
I actually had some anxiety about 'breaking my diet' and upping my cals to maintenance for the first couple of days, but you guys have helped me cope with that.
The fun bit is that tomorrow I'm off to Vienna for 8 days. Ive just plugged my expected 8 hours of walking around into MFP and to eat at maintanance means i get 4500 cals a day!!! So bring on the beer and chocolate cake!!
Have a great time in Vienna!
4500 cals sounds a lot for maintenance with walking though. Is the MFP caculator accurate? Anyhow, I'm totally envious about Vienna AND the 4500 cal TDEE.
Really depends on weight. I can get 30'000 steps a day on holiday and for at 160lbs give or take would be at least 1200 calories.2 -
Nice and thanks for clarifying, both.
Totally agree with your diet break while at Vienna. It's 8 days so make the most out of it!2 -
A question I've been wanting to ask for sometime now after reading so many posts in the forums about it and since we've been discussing TDEEs here (and since no question is off topic...)
When using online TDEE calculators, how can someone say that the calculator is over or under-estimating their maintenance calories when it all depends on the activity factor? Eg, I can plug in my numbers and select the activity level I think most appropriate (sports 6-7 days) and it still falls way short of my actual TDEE.
Isn't this because my activity level factor is not 1.75 but rather something north of 2.0? So it's not under-estimating but just not the correct activity level factor because although I do sports everyday, I might do a lot of other things as well (shopping, taking care of kids, house chores etc) which the calculators don't take into account?
So I guess it puzzles me when there are threads about TDEE estimates using online calcs and posts about maintaining below or above what they're given.0 -
People have a tendency to think in absolutes and that the calculators should be predicting their TDEE with 100% accuracy. We often see people who have been logging for a while asking if they should use their Fitbit or a calculator without even thinking about the fact they have data to work with and should use that. We have become over reliant on technology I think.
It didn't take me long to work out the numbers from my new device were overestimated, my old one underestimating a bit. Real world data trumps anything else.
Hell I've even seen veteran posters not suggest the best way is your own data. They encourage the use of the calculators and to work from there. Which quite frankly is unnecessary madness.
Soz fellow veterans.7 -
I can plug in my numbers and select the activity level I think most appropriate (sports 6-7 days) and it still falls way short of my actual TDEE.
Isn't this because my activity level factor is not 1.75 but rather something north of 2.0? So it's not under-estimating but just not the correct activity level factor because although I do sports everyday, I might do a lot of other things as well (shopping, taking care of kids, house chores etc) which the calculators don't take into account?
It could be that your activity factor is not correct because your NEAT is higher.
It could be that your activity factor is not correct because what exactly does "sports 6-7 days" mean? I shoot hoops for 10 minutes a day from the free throw line. You swim competitively for 3 hours every day and go for a bike ride on the weekend.
It could be that your activity factor is not correct because your BMR is not right at the mean but one or two standard deviations to the right or the left. Then, if you multiple that by your activity factor... well, that's a snickers bar or two for the same level of activity between lucky eat-a-lot and saves-on-groceries.
So the calculators come up with an estimate. And we tend to either be above, below, or near the estimate. Most calculators (or I should say ESTIMATORS) use fairly known formulas and disclose their activity factors.
For a quick listing of formulas and the activity factors used you can look at the discussion at the bottom of Scooby's Accurate Calorie Calculator.
MFP starts with an activity factor of 1.25, 1.4, 1.6, and 1.8 corresponding to sedentary, lightly active, active, and very active and expects people to manually enter the exercise that takes them above these settings.
Activity trackers such as the Fitbit assume a 1.0 activity factor and add the activity they detect (in the case of Fitbit, I believe that they base it on the average MET value they've detected over each 5 minute period)4 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: ».. Protein shakes are your friend here - low cal (I'm always perplexed when people say they're high cal, mine made with water (
) is under 100 cal for 20g of protein, with milk it's around 200 cal, and the milk I use bumps the protein to 34g.
just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.
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bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: ».. Protein shakes are your friend here - low cal (I'm always perplexed when people say they're high cal, mine made with water ( ) is under 100 cal for 20g of protein, with milk it's around 200 cal, and the milk I use bumps the protein to 34g.
just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.
I use WPI, most have minimal fat and carbs...or a hydrolyzed collagen, which is the same. You don't have to use a whole serve, the scoops aren't generally accurate anyway!0 -
VintageFeline wrote: »People have a tendency to think in absolutes and that the calculators should be predicting their TDEE with 100% accuracy. We often see people who have been logging for a while asking if they should use their Fitbit or a calculator without even thinking about the fact they have data to work with and should use that. We have become over reliant on technology I think.
.
I think this is very important to think about!
Usually the TDEE calculators have been too low for my actual healthy intake, a happy surprise after years of calculating.
So as long as Im doing this diet break experiment I feel like I might even be able to take maintenance calories a bit higher.
Also I feel like Im finding my happy weight. Not my mirror expectation, but about 5 pounds higher. So now I am contemplating seeing how diet breaks and keeping the happy weight, enjoying life, feeling less depressed and more energy for more activity might be the life I really want. I think being strong and happy is more my goal now.
Love this topic and all the suggestions, experiences and followers.
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bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »
just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.
I am a myprotein whey fan - 98 cals and
21g protein per 25g. I did do one day of pure liquid protein during maintenance. It was very flatulent to say the least!0 -
I'm going to post some info here that only kinda relates to refeeds and diet breaks.
For the last 6 weeks I have been all over the block with calories. A nieces wedding in late October started it off. Then Halloween parties, then a visit from my lovely daughter for a week and right into Thanksgiving. I also changed my lifting program to one that was more focused on muscle building (hypertrophy).
Some days I was at maintenance, some days way over, some days on plan. The net effect was......up 1/2 lb and waist down 1/2 inch. WFT???? Slight muscle gain and slight fat loss maybe?? A kind of ad hoc recomp??
During this time, water weight was all over the block also. Effects of the new program? Sodium and food transit? All of the above? Took 5 days for water weight and food transit to normalize after Thanksgiving. But, that day, I did EAT ALL THE FOOODZ!!!
One conclusion is, for those that fear going of deficit, just like you don't lose quickly, you don't gain that way either. It can be soooo hard to remember this! I can tell you one thing; with the randomness of my intake, I'm sure my hormone regulating organs were wondering, "What is he doing???"9 -
Still stable this morning. Reminding myself that it's Fun Anovulatory Cycle time, and thus what is "stable" at the moment -- actually, down two pounds from last week -- may actually be a good sign, once the cycle water weight comes off.
But, also more hopeful. After reviewing the labs, and my concerns about the "this may be in normal range, but it's higher than I've ever been" TSH level, my endo agreed to up the Synthroid dosing again. I in turn went back through my records, and saw that the last time things were acting as truly predicted, I was at a much higher dose (well, higher to what he just re-upped me to). There's a decent amount of literature that correlates EDs and calorie restriction with suppressed TSH, so I sent those articles to him/his clinic nurse, and asked if he'd be willing to do a trial back at that higher dose, and see if things normalize out, and then re-evaluate. Considering that he agreed to do the initial boost, I figured the worse he could do now is say no.2 -
Nony_Mouse wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »I might have been slightly exaggerating, I can walk, it's just awkward and people have asked if I'm okay lol
I don't feel like I am doing that much, at least compared to the amount of soreness I am feeling. I'm still working on protein.
The other factors affecting recovery besides calorie level and protein.
Sleep and vitamins/minerals.
If not much repair during the sleep, more feeling it the next day because more damage left over.
Also how new the workout is to you, and time since last doing it.
Many times waiting too long, you'll get just as sore. More frequent, not as bad.
But the amino acids for muscle repair, and a chance for the body to do it - are huge.
That's why some protein 30 min before bed showed improvement in recovery in a few studies. And this was endurance cardio, so while different type of damage, not the same level.
Thank you for justifying my bedtime shake
And my 8 ounces of New York strip steak 45 mins before bed
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I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.
No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.
No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.
A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?2 -
@nexangelus, sounds as if you're using a really good and methodological approach trying to get a right number for your surplus . Getting it right is tricky, isn't it?
I reckon my surplus should be around 2990 or so but we will see....
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.
No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.
A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?
That's a distinct possibility. I also might have some water retention because my steps went up due to my new game on my phone distracting me while I'm on my treadmill
I know enough to trust the process, but there's a voice inside my head that wants to lead to nasty compulsive behavior that isn't healthy.
This is why this thread has been so wonderful for me.
I don't believe I clinically have an eating disorder, but some of my behaviors around weight loss bordered on it, with tendencies to over eat and then over restrict to make up for it and then over eat because the over restriction left me starving. Lather, rinse, repeat. I was bothered tremendously by what the scale said and very reactionary about it.
Ever since I've adopted the weekend refeeds into my losing, I haven't had adherence problems, but I still have that voice in my head that struggles with the scale sometimes. I never used to, because I've been a daily weigher since I started losing weight. The voice isn't terribly loud, and I'm still strong enough to shout it down and persist in logically telling it what it can go do with itself. But it's still there.7 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.
No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.
A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?
That's a distinct possibility. I also might have some water retention because my steps went up due to my new game on my phone distracting me while I'm on my treadmill
I know enough to trust the process, but there's a voice inside my head that wants to lead to nasty compulsive behavior that isn't healthy.
This is why this thread has been so wonderful for me.
I don't believe I clinically have an eating disorder, but some of my behaviors around weight loss bordered on it, with tendencies to over eat and then over restrict to make up for it and then over eat because the over restriction left me starving. Lather, rinse, repeat. I was bothered tremendously by what the scale said and very reactionary about it.
Ever since I've adopted the weekend refeeds into my losing, I haven't had adherence problems, but I still have that voice in my head that struggles with the scale sometimes. I never used to, because I've been a daily weigher since I started losing weight. The voice isn't terribly loud, and I'm still strong enough to shout it down and persist in logically telling it what it can go do with itself. But it's still there.
I think we all have that voice that struggles with the scale. It helps to cultivate the voice of reason to balance it, as you have. My behaviors when not focused involve the overeating part without the over restriction part! Lol2 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.
No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.
A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?
That's a distinct possibility. I also might have some water retention because my steps went up due to my new game on my phone distracting me while I'm on my treadmill
I know enough to trust the process, but there's a voice inside my head that wants to lead to nasty compulsive behavior that isn't healthy.
This is why this thread has been so wonderful for me.
I don't believe I clinically have an eating disorder, but some of my behaviors around weight loss bordered on it, with tendencies to over eat and then over restrict to make up for it and then over eat because the over restriction left me starving. Lather, rinse, repeat. I was bothered tremendously by what the scale said and very reactionary about it.
Ever since I've adopted the weekend refeeds into my losing, I haven't had adherence problems, but I still have that voice in my head that struggles with the scale sometimes. I never used to, because I've been a daily weigher since I started losing weight. The voice isn't terribly loud, and I'm still strong enough to shout it down and persist in logically telling it what it can go do with itself. But it's still there.
I think we all have that voice that struggles with the scale. It helps to cultivate the voice of reason to balance it, as you have. My behaviors when not focused involve the overeating part without the over restriction part! Lol
Overeating comes naturally to Italians, paesan.
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dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?0 -
A question I've been wanting to ask for sometime now after reading so many posts in the forums about it and since we've been discussing TDEEs here (and since no question is off topic...)
When using online TDEE calculators, how can someone say that the calculator is over or under-estimating their maintenance calories when it all depends on the activity factor? Eg, I can plug in my numbers and select the activity level I think most appropriate (sports 6-7 days) and it still falls way short of my actual TDEE.
Isn't this because my activity level factor is not 1.75 but rather something north of 2.0? So it's not under-estimating but just not the correct activity level factor because although I do sports everyday, I might do a lot of other things as well (shopping, taking care of kids, house chores etc) which the calculators don't take into account?
So I guess it puzzles me when there are threads about TDEE estimates using online calcs and posts about maintaining below or above what they're given.
Almost all of those TDEE calc's are based on a Harris study from 1919 - and it only considers exercise, not daily life.
Obviously 2 people with exact same physical stats (gender/age/height/weight) and exercise routine (4 hrs spin bike weekly), one a mail carrier with kids, and one a desk job and no family and computer game junky - are not going to have anywhere near the same TDEE.
But they would get the same using those calc's.
So it is very rough estimate.
While the general advice is to test for a couple weeks - that obviously is only males that would work that fast - women would need to wait probably 2 months. That's a rather long time.
Plus the advice to test and lower rate of loss is going to fall on deaf ears of the majority that is looking to go as fast as possible.
I'm all for getting best estimate first, and then adjusting.
I figure we encourage weighing food for best accuracy, why not something on the CO side of equation that takes a few extra minutes and only need to update if things change in a major way.
This may help if no activity tracker to tweak settings on, for daily life and few levels of workout types.
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
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A question I've been wanting to ask for sometime now after reading so many posts in the forums about it and since we've been discussing TDEEs here (and since no question is off topic...)
Just TDEE Please spreadsheet - better than rough 5 level TDEE charts from 1919 study.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1G7FgNzPq3v5WMjDtH0n93LXSMRY_hjmzNTMJb3aZSxM/edit?usp=sharing
This tool fits my own data precisely thanks for sharing it!0 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?
Purely as an energy source, expensive energy source.
It has been shown in recent studies to not give any extra benefit to lifting and the normal way it's used and promoted.
Now - you being so low in protein, might be of assistance.
For example, if your diet has you just totally lacking on some amino acids or very short - that will effect usage of the others, the ratio between them for usage is interesting - the lowest common denominator method basically - one very low amino acid could prevent usage of the others.
At least more recent studies have shown the time window for that usage is decently long, if you have a mix of proteins through the day - but a real lack of variety could be bad still.
So if BCAA's provided what you are otherwise short on - useful.
If not - then not worth it.4 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?
Purely as an energy source, expensive energy source.
It has been shown in recent studies to not give any extra benefit to lifting and the normal way it's used and promoted.
Now - you being so low in protein, might be of assistance.
For example, if your diet has you just totally lacking on some amino acids or very short - that will effect usage of the others, the ratio between them for usage is interesting - the lowest common denominator method basically - one very low amino acid could prevent usage of the others.
At least more recent studies have shown the time window for that usage is decently long, if you have a mix of proteins through the day - but a real lack of variety could be bad still.
So if BCAA's provided what you are otherwise short on - useful.
If not - then not worth it.
Thank you very much Maybe I could try it out and see if I notice a difference. 1 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?
Purely as an energy source, expensive energy source.
It has been shown in recent studies to not give any extra benefit to lifting and the normal way it's used and promoted.
Now - you being so low in protein, might be of assistance.
For example, if your diet has you just totally lacking on some amino acids or very short - that will effect usage of the others, the ratio between them for usage is interesting - the lowest common denominator method basically - one very low amino acid could prevent usage of the others.
At least more recent studies have shown the time window for that usage is decently long, if you have a mix of proteins through the day - but a real lack of variety could be bad still.
So if BCAA's provided what you are otherwise short on - useful.
If not - then not worth it.
Thank you very much Maybe I could try it out and see if I notice a difference.
Personally I'd work on getting my protein up from food first. Not to muddy the assessment waters with supplements that may or may not be doing something when you have changed another variable. Plus, going to be much easier to get what you need without the use of supplements.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?
Purely as an energy source, expensive energy source.
It has been shown in recent studies to not give any extra benefit to lifting and the normal way it's used and promoted.
Now - you being so low in protein, might be of assistance.
For example, if your diet has you just totally lacking on some amino acids or very short - that will effect usage of the others, the ratio between them for usage is interesting - the lowest common denominator method basically - one very low amino acid could prevent usage of the others.
At least more recent studies have shown the time window for that usage is decently long, if you have a mix of proteins through the day - but a real lack of variety could be bad still.
So if BCAA's provided what you are otherwise short on - useful.
If not - then not worth it.
Thank you very much Maybe I could try it out and see if I notice a difference.
Personally I'd work on getting my protein up from food first. Not to muddy the assessment waters with supplements that may or may not be doing something when you have changed another variable. Plus, going to be much easier to get what you need without the use of supplements.
That's a good point, I am working on that. I switched my usual 4g protein breakfast out for a 12g protein breakfast this morning... baby steps5 -
dancefit2015 wrote: »I feel like I've seen this before somewhere but can you experience DOMS more from being in a calorie deficit? I know protein plays a big role too but I'm just wondering if it's still an issue with enough protein even while in a cal deficit? My mom, friend, and I will do the same workouts and I will be the only one that can hardly walk for days later. I think they are probably getting more protein & calories than me.
I'm barely seeing this now and haven't caught up so if it's addressed already, I'll edit, but for the most part DOMS and to a worse extent, rhabdomyolysis, is a combination of overly intense activity beyond neuromuscular adaptation, rate of recovery, and substrate availability for repair.
So, in a deficit, you're already in an impaired recovery state. To counteract that, the better recommendation is to get even more protein than you would on maintenance to compensate. At the same time, in a deficit, going too hard in workouts is also no bueno. You'll just be tearing away at skeletal tissue instead of fat. You want to stimulate the muscles, not annihilate them.
Edit: I had a feeling you might have been referring to crossfit. I'm going to say crossfit style of workouts are hardly conducive to anyone in even a moderate deficit. This is one of those activities that you NEED eat to fuel/recover from your workouts simply because the sheer amount of intensity demanded for WODs are known to actually destroy people. And by destroy, I mean actual muscle and tendon tears. If you're getting a very low amount of protein and energy in the day, doing crossfit isn't going to be doing any favors. I don't have anything against xfit, I just think it really could be implemented better as a program, especially for beginners.4 -
bmeadows380 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: ».. Protein shakes are your friend here - low cal (I'm always perplexed when people say they're high cal, mine made with water ( ) is under 100 cal for 20g of protein, with milk it's around 200 cal, and the milk I use bumps the protein to 34g.
just out of curiosity - what protein shake are you using? I spent a good hour Sunday on Amazon looking for protein powders, and the best I could find was Sun Warrior at 100 calories for 17g protein. All the rest of the powders were in the 150+ calorie range, as is all the powders available in my local stores.
I use Clean Lean Protein (yes, it did take a lot for me to use something with the word 'clean' in it
). It's a pea protein, because litterally all my other protein except the little bit in fruit and veg comes from dairy (let's just hope my body doesn't decide it hates that too!!). I'm not sure if you can get it in shops in North America, but I think you can get it online. I was super wary of buying a tub of anything without trying first, but they do single serve packs so I got a few flavours of that to try. Reviews: Strawberry, fine on its own, even better with berry sorbet; chocolate, meh, okay on its own, seems a bit 'grittier' than the strawb, add good quality cocoa powder or better still dark choc peanut butter; plain, goes in my Greek yoghurt, cos you can never have enough protein, right? Don't even notice it; Vanilla, have only used a trial pack in yoghurt, was like eating dessert, expect I will try this one when I finally get around to making a protein cheesecake (which will be lemon); coffee, just tried yesterday, with chocolate gelato, iced mocha in the afternoon FTW!. Everything I've read says use a blender rather than a shaker, otherwise it's a bit gritty. Blended well you don't get that.
Last night's mega shake was 50g choc powder, 400ml milk, 75g choc gelato, 30g dark choc PB, lots of ice. 695 cals of deliciousness.4 -
VintageFeline wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?
Purely as an energy source, expensive energy source.
It has been shown in recent studies to not give any extra benefit to lifting and the normal way it's used and promoted.
Now - you being so low in protein, might be of assistance.
For example, if your diet has you just totally lacking on some amino acids or very short - that will effect usage of the others, the ratio between them for usage is interesting - the lowest common denominator method basically - one very low amino acid could prevent usage of the others.
At least more recent studies have shown the time window for that usage is decently long, if you have a mix of proteins through the day - but a real lack of variety could be bad still.
So if BCAA's provided what you are otherwise short on - useful.
If not - then not worth it.
Thank you very much Maybe I could try it out and see if I notice a difference.
Personally I'd work on getting my protein up from food first. Not to muddy the assessment waters with supplements that may or may not be doing something when you have changed another variable. Plus, going to be much easier to get what you need without the use of supplements.
+1 Personally, I wouldn't waste the time and money on BCAAs. Maybe get a plant based protein powder.
ETA: I should have read all the way before posting. I see Nony recommended a good plant based protein source. I also agree completely with anubis's points. Often, when you add volume, you reduce weight and increase reps. This fairly typical of Crossfit. This causes the use of both Type 1 an Type 2 muscle fibers and engages the smaller muscles and tendons more so than higher weight/ lower rep. That can and will cause DOMS.3 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »I am still frustratingly up 2 pounds and it's starting to annoy me. Thanksgiving was a week ago already. I did see the scale flash my previous low weight when I stepped on it this morning before going up those 2 pounds, so it might be doing that silly thing digital scales do of remembering previous recorded weights.
No matter what happens tomorrow on weigh in, I'll still be doing a refeed this weekend since I've been eating at deficit since last Friday, and some of those deficits have been fairly aggressive.
A wild guess but maybe you've got some cortisol happening due to some of the challenges of the last month or so?
That's a distinct possibility. I also might have some water retention because my steps went up due to my new game on my phone distracting me while I'm on my treadmill
I know enough to trust the process, but there's a voice inside my head that wants to lead to nasty compulsive behavior that isn't healthy.
This is why this thread has been so wonderful for me.
I don't believe I clinically have an eating disorder, but some of my behaviors around weight loss bordered on it, with tendencies to over eat and then over restrict to make up for it and then over eat because the over restriction left me starving. Lather, rinse, repeat. I was bothered tremendously by what the scale said and very reactionary about it.
Ever since I've adopted the weekend refeeds into my losing, I haven't had adherence problems, but I still have that voice in my head that struggles with the scale sometimes. I never used to, because I've been a daily weigher since I started losing weight. The voice isn't terribly loud, and I'm still strong enough to shout it down and persist in logically telling it what it can go do with itself. But it's still there.
I would agree that you were bordering on going down that rabbit hole. For me, because I had (have) an ED, I have to be honest and admit that I was heading down the rabbit hole. Not full blown, the truly severe mental aspects were not in play yet (as in I was not yet a basket case, and it was not an every day thing), but I was tending towards ED Version 1.0 a few months ago. That's why something had to give. And yes, I changed my way of eating/dieting as part of that (and it's working), but I had to do a whole *kitten* load of other work along side that on the cognitive side, including letting go and trusting the process. And that was *kitten* hard.
Today I'm up 400g, and that voice in my head is screaming 'go back to a deficit!!!!!!!'. Logic brain is replying 'oh ffs, you're on a corticosteroid, ya think maybe that's water weight?'. Combined with mood and lack of sleep, this could be a fun couple of days for me though.
So there you go, some nice semi-full disclosure from Nony first thing in the morning. I'm sure those who know my history can read between the lines.9 -
VintageFeline wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »dancefit2015 wrote: »Okay so more sleep, more protein, possibly scale down strength training.
It was 55 reps of squats with 6lb ball... so I don't know if the exercise is really the main issue.
As a vegetarian/borderline vegan, I am wondering if I should take an amino acid supplement along with my protein drink so make sure I'm getting all of the amino acids I need.
Thank you so much for your advice!
Total calories? Protein grams? Other than animal products are you restricting anything else? Eggs, milk, yogurt, cheese? how quickly did you ramp up to 55 squats?
My goal is 1,700 cal at a 500 cal deficit/day. My weekly calories are always either at or above my goal. Yesterday I managed 100g protein, but my average for the week before yesterday was about 55/day. I don't eat many dairy products or eggs, but I don't restrict them either.
Well I have been doing weighted squats for months, snatches, front/back squats, few air squats here and there. So doing 55 reps with a 6lb ball doesn't sound like something that could make me so sore. I did about 5 reps at a time before shaking out my legs and doing another 5. And this is just one example. I feel like every other workout I do makes me ridiculously sore, no matter how light I go.
Does anyone take a BCAA supplement? Could this be helpful?
Purely as an energy source, expensive energy source.
It has been shown in recent studies to not give any extra benefit to lifting and the normal way it's used and promoted.
Now - you being so low in protein, might be of assistance.
For example, if your diet has you just totally lacking on some amino acids or very short - that will effect usage of the others, the ratio between them for usage is interesting - the lowest common denominator method basically - one very low amino acid could prevent usage of the others.
At least more recent studies have shown the time window for that usage is decently long, if you have a mix of proteins through the day - but a real lack of variety could be bad still.
So if BCAA's provided what you are otherwise short on - useful.
If not - then not worth it.
Thank you very much Maybe I could try it out and see if I notice a difference.
Personally I'd work on getting my protein up from food first. Not to muddy the assessment waters with supplements that may or may not be doing something when you have changed another variable. Plus, going to be much easier to get what you need without the use of supplements.
+1 Personally, I wouldn't waste the time and money on BCAAs. Maybe get a plant based protein powder.
ETA: I should have read all the way before posting. I see Nony recommended a good plant based protein source. I also agree completely with anubis's points. Often, when you add volume, you reduce weight and increase reps. This fairly typical of Crossfit. This causes the use of both Type 1 an Type 2 muscle fibers and engages the smaller muscles and tendons more so than higher weight/ lower rep. That can and will cause DOMS.
Right. The usual increase in volume should be counterbalanced with a reduction in intensity.. but I've seen some xfit gyms just increase volume and/or intensity without regard for balance. Not everyone should be trying to perform a Linda WOD especially if proper barbell training and muscle adaptation isn't in place. Adding a time component just makes it worse, imo. Throw some AMRAP burpee box jumps or pull-ups after that and you've got some good shredded tissue.2
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