Paleo diet
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
Nobody cares what you "think". You want to be paleo, go sit outside your mudhut and poke your own dung with a stick and harvest the flies to make your lunch. That is the reality, you live in a time of abundance. Embrace it!5 -
Paleo and Primal (which is basically Paleo+Dairy), are both at their core mainly about being grain-free. I don't know if the health benefits they taught as a result are legit or not, but just focusing on being grain-free is enough to keep me away from some of my worst diet habits. All of the other restrictions are also highly correlated with *kitten* I shouldn't be eating anyways. Fried fast food? Nope, fried in seed oil. Candy? Nope, added sugar. Pizza? Nope, bread. Beer? Nope, made from grains.
Dairy is the ONLY one I struggle with, and only because of cheese. But even there, since I started cutting cheese out of meals I've noticed how many calories it was adding and been able to replace it with larger servings of vegetables.2 -
Paleo and Primal (which is basically Paleo+Dairy), are both at their core mainly about being grain-free. I don't know if the health benefits they taught as a result are legit or not, but just focusing on being grain-free is enough to keep me away from some of my worst diet habits.
That's really not true for me, and one reason why I found the restrictions kind of ridiculous, as well as being based on bad science.
No legumes? Not only do I think legumes are healthy, but I'd never overeat legumes. In fact, I mostly think my diet would be better if I ate them more frequently. (As noted above I know some have issues with overeating peanuts or peanut butter, but not me, I vastly prefer most nuts and nut butter to peanuts.)
No dairy? Yeah, I guess cutting out ice cream and cheese would make cutting calories easier, but I find that I've been able to control both, for the most part, and many dairy products, like greek yogurt and cottage cheese are helpful for me. Plus, I know I have the genetic ability to digest lactose so the claim I'm not evolved to eat dairy always strikes me as so silly.
No grains? I don't care that much about grains. I think corn is tasty, but I only eat it when it's fresh and in season, which is a couple of months, and I don't see it as harmful (well, okay, popcorn I might have other times of the year, but I don't really overeat it). Rice, boring, I would never overeat; bread, with the exception of naan, pretty much the same. Oats, I like them, but again easy to control and I think they are healthy. Pasta -- yeah, I like it, but again not hard to control, and an easy base for really healthy meals involving lots of vegetables and lean protein.
Sweet baked goods? Some, not all of them, are things I have difficulty controlling, but it's easier to avoid those or limit those than to pretend grains as a whole are bad for me, and the evidence that they aren't make it impossible for the claim that they are inherently unhealthy to work -- I just can't base eating decisions on a lie.
French fries? Depending on how they are prepared I don't think they are even against the paleo rules (I realize some say potatoes are, but when I was doing it tubers seemed to be on the okay list, and they certainly should be given the general reasoning). Anyhoo, I never ate much fast food, don't do fries that often even at other restaurants, and don't fry things at home, so for me potatoes mean roasted.
Industrial oils I do tend to avoid, but that's often not even a "paleo" rule people know, and lots of people (like me) avoid them without being paleo. And if one is honest olive oil or really any oils would be something people did not eat in the paleo era.
I can't imagine thinking of cheese and vegetables as alternatives or substitutes. I think of meals as based around protein and vegetables and cheese as one possible compliment (or maybe a small addition to the protein, but not really). I found paleo easy when I tried it for a bit because it was pretty similar to many of the ways I ate already but the main changes -- not eating legumes, dairy, or whole grains -- seemed impossible to justify either for health reasons or because I personally overeat those foods. And it felt like I was lying to myself.
I think some find it helpful in changing their diet from a poor one to a better one or really like the whole caveman rationale or, again, the kinds of lifestyle things Sisson combines it with, but the idea that the specific things that distinguish paleo from more standard "recommended healthy diets" -- which again are no legumes, no dairy, and no grains -- are the difference between a diet being a healthy one or not or make the paleo diet healthier seems to me quite absurd.
This is not to discourage anyone from doing paleo (I think it's a fine diet and can be enjoyable and easy), but to counter the ridiculous claims that it's a healthier way to eat than other nutrition and health conscious ways of eating.
I also think it's kind of silly to pretend like you can eat anything like ancestors pre agriculture did or that eating like they did 1000 or 3000 years ago or so on is too "contemporary" (which is the heart of the no dairy thing).2 -
russelljam08 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
Nobody cares what you "think". You want to be paleo, go sit outside your mudhut and poke your own dung with a stick and harvest the flies to make your lunch. That is the reality, you live in a time of abundance. Embrace it!
LOL Wow. Pleasant.
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GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »lemurcat12 wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
Agreed.
Re Primal, Mark Sisson drives me crazy sometimes, and I do think one should not lose sight of the fact that he's all about promoting his own products, but the "primal blueprint" -- primal isn't really a thing outside of Sisson's named diet -- makes sense to me somewhat.
NOT the idea that grains are bad, but moving away from strict paleo to promoting generally whole foods based healthy eating (like dairy, he seems to think beans/lentils are okay, even though I personally think he's too skeptical about them still in that they are pretty obviously both healthful and almost no one's actual problem when it comes to overeating (I exclude one legume, peanuts, as some people clearly do lack self control with peanut butter, but that hardly makes it bad for people in general)). Beyond that, and why he gets my positive comments here, I like the fact that he promotes:
Eating lots of vegetables (IMO, if your version of paleo doesn't do that, it's not really following the spirit of the whole thing);
Many, many things beyond just eating in a particular way -- getting adequate sleep, exercise (lots of walking, weights or other kinds of strength building exercises, sprinting and play, getting outside, so on).
I think it's deeply silly to insist this is all "paleo" (I think Sisson's caveman logo and "primal" name are also kind of silly, but whatever), but in general I think it's a pleasant and healthy approach to fitness.
I'm down with the lifestyle bits Sisson promotes, I just can't, like you, see the point in saying that grains are bad.
Totally agree about the whole foods and especially the vegetable intake.
When I was strict paleo, I was eating a huge amount of vegetables. As I said upthread, this was before Cordain's book. I'm trying to remember... I think the author I read was named Audette.
It's almost like they're wanting to stand out and not sound like all the good old boring diet recommendations of eating sensibly and mostly nutrient dense foods, so while they backtracked on some "forbidden" foods the "no grain" recommendation has always been their signature in the world of diets so they're not letting go of that.3 -
barkertiffany0 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »barkertiffany0 wrote: »ladyhusker39 wrote: »OP: Based on the vibe I'm getting from you I'd recommend against it. I'm pretty sure you're looking for a gimmick for quick weight loss whereas paleo is a lifestyle I don't get the impression you're committed to.
I predict you'll try it for a while, it'll get "hard", you'll quit and move on to the next gimmick.
For the paleo folks reading this:I'm not criticizing paleo but rather this particular person's obvious lack of commitment to the lifestyle that will almost certainly result in failure to reach her desired goal.
Thanks for your opinion on my life but I'm not looking for a "gimmick" you don't know me nor my lifestyle or my level of commitment. lol it's funny how people on this thing can try to judge a person and act like they actually know them and say things like "I'm not criticizing paleo but rather than this particular persons lack of commitment"
You said you are going to try it for a week or so. A week or so isn't nearly enough time to give anything a proper trial.
Thanks for your opinion. I'm going to try it for a week or so not for the results. Everyone is saying it's time consuming so its for me to see if I have enough time in my schedule for this kind of diet or not.
Honestly, a week may not be enough time to know how time consuming it will be for you. Meal prep time and grocery shopping typically lessens as folks get accustomed to the changes in what they are doing and develop their own rhythm and find their stride.0 -
It's a tough crowd on this app...a lot of self-entitled know-it-alls! I'm beginning keto and I have thought about posting on here, looking for advice, but I know it will attract negativity. Instead I ordered a book and am doing my own research...that is what I would recommend and good luck with everything!!
There’s a low-carb group in the groups. They’ll be your peeps if you want questions answered or advice. You’ll have some as you go, it can be helpful to have a support group.
My frustration with any woe is when people make claims about its “cure alls.” If you say I’ll never get cancer if I eat vegan or that I’ll never have a heart attack if I eat paleo or that keto is the only way to lose weight because carbs make you fat, then yeah, people will call you on that. And rightfully so.
Any woe you can stick to and that you find satisfying is the one that will work for you for weight loss and for life.
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Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
That diet was your only alternative to eating paleo? And you have the carb/veggie consumption of paleo since...?5 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
That diet was your only alternative to eating paleo? And you have the carb/veggie consumption of paleo since...?
It was the first highly refined sugary foods that I thought of. And I think sugary foods, or foods made from highly refined flours are nutritionally weak. I suppose I could have said white bread but as a celiac I rarely ate baked goods from the store.
Plus I was thinking of the foods that I dropped when I went more paleo-like. I enjoyed those foods I mentioned but they were not my entire diet. LOL So... My alternative is a problem for you?
Paleo is about food choices, not a set of macros. JMO1 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
That diet was your only alternative to eating paleo? And you have the carb/veggie consumption of paleo since...?
It was the first highly refined sugary foods that I thought of. And I think sugary foods, or foods made from highly refined flours are nutritionally weak. I suppose I could have said white bread but as a celiac I rarely ate baked goods from the store.
Plus I was thinking of the foods that I dropped when I went more paleo-like. I enjoyed those foods I mentioned but they were not my entire diet. LOL So... My alternative is a problem for you?
Paleo is about food choices, not a set of macros. JMO
You were presenting a false dichotomy. If that alternative was merely your previous diet, you could have been clearer in stating it as as personal situation only. Your wording left the interpretation open.
If your diet was like that prior to being keto, it would explain much.
And macro choice has nothing to do with vegetable consumption, which is the point I raised. Vegetables are part and parcel of paleo eating.
As I said, I ate paleo over 20 years ago for a good long stretch.
You eat meat and dairy and might give a vegetable a passing glance. That's not primal. That's keto. They're not the same thing.4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
That diet was your only alternative to eating paleo? And you have the carb/veggie consumption of paleo since...?
It was the first highly refined sugary foods that I thought of. And I think sugary foods, or foods made from highly refined flours are nutritionally weak. I suppose I could have said white bread but as a celiac I rarely ate baked goods from the store.
Plus I was thinking of the foods that I dropped when I went more paleo-like. I enjoyed those foods I mentioned but they were not my entire diet. LOL So... My alternative is a problem for you?
Paleo is about food choices, not a set of macros. JMO
You were presenting a false dichotomy. If that alternative was merely your previous diet, you could have been clearer in stating it as as personal situation only. Your wording left the interpretation open.
If your diet was like that prior to being keto, it would explain much.
And macro choice has nothing to do with vegetable consumption, which is the point I raised. Vegetables are part and parcel of paleo eating.
As I said, I have paleo cred. I ate paleo over 20 years ago for a good long stretch.
You eat meat and dairy and might give a vegetable a passing glance. That's not primal.
Those foods were PART of my past diet. They weren't the entire thing, or even a majority. LOLPlus, if I never ate them, how could I miss them?
And just what would eating jujubes explain? A sweet tooth maybe?
I think macro choice does have a fair bit to do with vegetable consumption. If you eat LCHF, you don't eat as many veggies as the vegan... or whole food vegans anyways. Veganism - another food choice that can have wildly varying macros...
So I eat meat, dairy and glance at vegetables? And you know this from my closed diary that I never use? Wow. I eat a wide enough variety of vegetables, just perhaps not as many as you. So what? This past week I ate 2 salads, onions, mushrooms, snap peas, cucumbers, carrots, squash, tomatoes, peppers, celery cauliflower and broccoli. Just not large amounts at a time, and the fewer I eat the better I feel. The only dairy I had was some cheese, sourcream, and butter on the carrots...Is that primal enough for your paleo cred? Oh wait. I had a pepperoni stick and some bacon so I guess I fail...sniffle.
As I said originally, I loosely follow primal... I feel like I am being asked to defend myself to diet police. LOL4 -
GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »GottaBurnEmAll wrote: »Nony_Mouse wrote: »I think paleo is usually an improved diet for most people. Meats, eggs, veggies, a few fruits... Seems healthy. I gave never really thought of Paleolithic as a weight loss plan - more of a healthy eating plan.
I loosely follow primal - I like cheese and some sour cream.
The paleo diet really shouldn't be referred to as Palaeolithic, it bears no resemblance whatsoever, even ignoring the fact that the Palaeolithic era covers a really long time span, over a very wide geographical area (people having gotten to pretty much everywhere except the Pacific Islands).
If people want to eat according to the modern paleo diet, they enjoy it, feel better, whatever, that's fine. Just don't get sucked in to thinking that's how we 'should' eat because that's supposedly the way our ancestors ate.
That was actually my spell check that changed that. I guess I missed that one correction.
But I do think it is closer to what our ancestors ate than what many people do eat now. People stick with it because they feel better, and hopefully because they enjoy it somewhat. Eating in an obviously different waythan our ancestors did is more enjoyable to me though. Darnit. I just don't feel as good eating jujubes, drinking pop, or cream cheese frosted cinnamon buns. JMO
That diet was your only alternative to eating paleo? And you have the carb/veggie consumption of paleo since...?
It was the first highly refined sugary foods that I thought of. And I think sugary foods, or foods made from highly refined flours are nutritionally weak. I suppose I could have said white bread but as a celiac I rarely ate baked goods from the store.
Plus I was thinking of the foods that I dropped when I went more paleo-like. I enjoyed those foods I mentioned but they were not my entire diet. LOL So... My alternative is a problem for you?
Paleo is about food choices, not a set of macros. JMO
You were presenting a false dichotomy. If that alternative was merely your previous diet, you could have been clearer in stating it as as personal situation only. Your wording left the interpretation open.
If your diet was like that prior to being keto, it would explain much.
And macro choice has nothing to do with vegetable consumption, which is the point I raised. Vegetables are part and parcel of paleo eating.
As I said, I have paleo cred. I ate paleo over 20 years ago for a good long stretch.
You eat meat and dairy and might give a vegetable a passing glance. That's not primal.
Those foods were PART of my past diet. They weren't the entire thing, or even a majority. LOLPlus, if I never ate them, how could I miss them?
And just what would eating jujubes explain? A sweet tooth maybe?
I think macro choice does have a fair bit to do with vegetable consumption. If you eat LCHF, you don't eat as many veggies as the vegan... or whole food vegans anyways. Veganism - another food choice that can have wildly varying macros...
So I eat meat, dairy and glance at vegetables? And you know this from my closed diary that I never use? Wow. I eat a wide enough variety of vegetables, just perhaps not as many as you. So what? This past week I ate 2 salads, onions, mushrooms, snap peas, cucumbers, carrots, squash, tomatoes, peppers, celery cauliflower and broccoli. Just not large amounts at a time, and the fewer I eat the better I feel. The only dairy I had was some cheese, sourcream, and butter on the carrots...Is that primal enough for your paleo cred? Oh wait. I had a pepperoni stick and some bacon so I guess I fail...sniffle.
As I said originally, I loosely follow primal... I feel like I am being asked to defend myself to diet police. LOL
I remember your diary from when it was open and the vegetable quantities you ate.
And yeah, processed meats aren't primal.
I'm not playing diet police. What I'm questioning is why you're playing at being primal when you're keto.2
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