Welcome to Debate Club! Please be aware that this is a space for respectful debate, and that your ideas will be challenged here. Please remember to critique the argument, not the author.
Why are most mfp users against holistic nutrition?
Options
Replies
-
@TenderBlender667, I'm sure you are a compassionate person who is pursuing this education because you want to help people. You mentioned that it is your only option at this time. However, I would ask you to reconsider; it is a scam.
I recommend ZDoggMD's newest video (From Zero to Hero: Ditching Naturopathy for Science | Against Medical Advice 027). It's an interview with a former naturopathic doctor, Britt Marie Hermes (naturopathicdiaries.com). She talks about her disillusionment with Western medicine and her student years in naturopathic school (Bastyr University). She practiced for a few years before finding out that she was an accessory to a felonious act which is common in the naturopathy world (importing non-FDA approved drugs). It caused her to question naturopathy and her part in it. Two warnings: it's long (1 hr 10 mins), and there will be some foul language, crude comments, and irreverent gestures (it's typical of ZDoggMD's style).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g1ZLL4swLMY 0 -
Canadian School of Natural Nutrition offers a title that they made up themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/nutrition/comments/1p6jaa/what_is_a_registered_holistic_nutritionist_do/
Dr. Elson Haas is a huge proponent of detox dieting. http://chetday.com/haasdetox.htm
THE DETOX DIET MENU PLAN
Morning: (upon arising): Two glasses of water (filtered, spring, or reverse osmosis), one glass with half a lemon squeezed into it.
Breakfast: One piece of fresh fruit (at room temp), such as apple, pear, banana, grapes, or citrus. Chew well, mixing each bite with saliva.
15-30 minutes later: One bowl of cooked whole grains -- specifically millet, brown rice, amaranth, quinoa, raw buckwheat, or buckwheat. Flavoring can be two tablespoons of fruit juice for a sweeter breakfast taste, or use the "better butter" mixture mentioned below with a little salt or tamari for a deeper flavor.
Lunch: (Noon-1 P.M.) One-two medium bowls of steamed vegetables; use a variety, including roots, stems, and greens -- e.g. potatoes or yams, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, beets, asparagus, kale, chard, and cabbage. CHEW WELL !
Dinner: (5-6 P.M.) Same as Lunch
Seasoning: Butter/canola oil mixture. Make this "better butter" by mixing a half cup of cold-pressed canola oil (or olive or flaxseed oils) into a soft (room temperature) half-pound of butter; then place in dish and refrigerate. Use about one teaspoon per meal or a maximum of 3 teaspoons daily.
11 A.M. & 3 P.M. One-two cups veggie water, saved from steamed vegetables. Add a little sea salt or kelp and drink slowly, mixing each mouthful with saliva.
Evening: Herbal teas only -- e.g. peppermint, camomile, pau d'arco, or blends.
NOTE: You may feel a little weak or have a few symptoms the first couple of days; this will pass. Clarity and feeling good should appear by day 3 or 4, if not before. If during this diet, you start to feel weak or hungry, assess your water intake and elimination; if needed, you can eat a small portion of protein food (3-4 ounces) in the mid-afternoon. This could be fish; free-range, organic chicken; or some beans, such as lentils, garbanzos, mung, or black beans.
Uhm yeah I would feel weak on a vegetable and oil diet, holy crap (and runny crap, literally). You're 2 months in. You might not be able to get your money back for this semester, but you can probably get any other money back. Do a little research and pick a board certified school. Dietitian is the title that you should look for.
Gosh, what a yummy diet. The vegetable water with kelp sounds particularly exciting. Good god.2 -
Canadian School of Natural Nutrition offers a title that they made up themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/nutrition/comments/1p6jaa/what_is_a_registered_holistic_nutritionist_do/
Dr. Elson Haas is a huge proponent of detox dieting. http://chetday.com/haasdetox.htm
THE DETOX DIET MENU PLAN
Morning: (upon arising): Two glasses of water (filtered, spring, or reverse osmosis), one glass with half a lemon squeezed into it.
Breakfast: One piece of fresh fruit (at room temp), such as apple, pear, banana, grapes, or citrus. Chew well, mixing each bite with saliva.
15-30 minutes later: One bowl of cooked whole grains -- specifically millet, brown rice, amaranth, quinoa, raw buckwheat, or buckwheat. Flavoring can be two tablespoons of fruit juice for a sweeter breakfast taste, or use the "better butter" mixture mentioned below with a little salt or tamari for a deeper flavor.
Lunch: (Noon-1 P.M.) One-two medium bowls of steamed vegetables; use a variety, including roots, stems, and greens -- e.g. potatoes or yams, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, beets, asparagus, kale, chard, and cabbage. CHEW WELL !
Dinner: (5-6 P.M.) Same as Lunch
Seasoning: Butter/canola oil mixture. Make this "better butter" by mixing a half cup of cold-pressed canola oil (or olive or flaxseed oils) into a soft (room temperature) half-pound of butter; then place in dish and refrigerate. Use about one teaspoon per meal or a maximum of 3 teaspoons daily.
11 A.M. & 3 P.M. One-two cups veggie water, saved from steamed vegetables. Add a little sea salt or kelp and drink slowly, mixing each mouthful with saliva.
Evening: Herbal teas only -- e.g. peppermint, camomile, pau d'arco, or blends.
NOTE: You may feel a little weak or have a few symptoms the first couple of days; this will pass. Clarity and feeling good should appear by day 3 or 4, if not before. If during this diet, you start to feel weak or hungry, assess your water intake and elimination; if needed, you can eat a small portion of protein food (3-4 ounces) in the mid-afternoon. This could be fish; free-range, organic chicken; or some beans, such as lentils, garbanzos, mung, or black beans.
Uhm yeah I would feel weak on a vegetable and oil diet, holy crap (and runny crap, literally). You're 2 months in. You might not be able to get your money back for this semester, but you can probably get any other money back. Do a little research and pick a board certified school. Dietitian is the title that you should look for.
Gosh, what a yummy diet. The vegetable water with kelp sounds particularly exciting. Good god.
Now I want to know how one chews *without* mixing each bite with saliva. Is there a saliva-free chewing style that I've somehow missed out on?8 -
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.10 -
janejellyroll wrote: »Canadian School of Natural Nutrition offers a title that they made up themselves. https://www.reddit.com/r/nutrition/comments/1p6jaa/what_is_a_registered_holistic_nutritionist_do/
Dr. Elson Haas is a huge proponent of detox dieting. http://chetday.com/haasdetox.htm
THE DETOX DIET MENU PLAN
Morning: (upon arising): Two glasses of water (filtered, spring, or reverse osmosis), one glass with half a lemon squeezed into it.
Breakfast: One piece of fresh fruit (at room temp), such as apple, pear, banana, grapes, or citrus. Chew well, mixing each bite with saliva.
15-30 minutes later: One bowl of cooked whole grains -- specifically millet, brown rice, amaranth, quinoa, raw buckwheat, or buckwheat. Flavoring can be two tablespoons of fruit juice for a sweeter breakfast taste, or use the "better butter" mixture mentioned below with a little salt or tamari for a deeper flavor.
Lunch: (Noon-1 P.M.) One-two medium bowls of steamed vegetables; use a variety, including roots, stems, and greens -- e.g. potatoes or yams, green beans, broccoli, cauliflower, carrots, beets, asparagus, kale, chard, and cabbage. CHEW WELL !
Dinner: (5-6 P.M.) Same as Lunch
Seasoning: Butter/canola oil mixture. Make this "better butter" by mixing a half cup of cold-pressed canola oil (or olive or flaxseed oils) into a soft (room temperature) half-pound of butter; then place in dish and refrigerate. Use about one teaspoon per meal or a maximum of 3 teaspoons daily.
11 A.M. & 3 P.M. One-two cups veggie water, saved from steamed vegetables. Add a little sea salt or kelp and drink slowly, mixing each mouthful with saliva.
Evening: Herbal teas only -- e.g. peppermint, camomile, pau d'arco, or blends.
NOTE: You may feel a little weak or have a few symptoms the first couple of days; this will pass. Clarity and feeling good should appear by day 3 or 4, if not before. If during this diet, you start to feel weak or hungry, assess your water intake and elimination; if needed, you can eat a small portion of protein food (3-4 ounces) in the mid-afternoon. This could be fish; free-range, organic chicken; or some beans, such as lentils, garbanzos, mung, or black beans.
Uhm yeah I would feel weak on a vegetable and oil diet, holy crap (and runny crap, literally). You're 2 months in. You might not be able to get your money back for this semester, but you can probably get any other money back. Do a little research and pick a board certified school. Dietitian is the title that you should look for.
Gosh, what a yummy diet. The vegetable water with kelp sounds particularly exciting. Good god.
Now I want to know how one chews *without* mixing each bite with saliva. Is there a saliva-free chewing style that I've somehow missed out on?
You're probably supposed to gather your saliva in a jar and keep it for just such digestive emergencies.4 -
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.
Sure, but what's your suggestion? Parent Licences? Neuter people under a certain IQ? Ultimately, there are no laws against being an airhead nutjob. And even if you or I think someone is making bad decisions, the right to religious freedom is enshrined in many democratic countries constitutions.1 -
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.
Sure, but what's your suggestion? Parent Licences? Neuter people under a certain IQ? Ultimately, there are no laws against being an airhead nutjob. And even if you or I think someone is making bad decisions, the right to religious freedom is enshrined in many democratic countries constitutions.
There have been instances in the US where the state has stepped in to ensure that children get medical treatment (or have prosecuted parents for failing to provide such treatment) even when religion is the motivation.
It doesn't require parental licenses or sterilization. There are laws that can be used against those who would force their children to die unnecessarily.4 -
I'm tired of hearing about the horrors of "big pharma." Yes, there are pharmaceutical companies that have committed fraudulent acts and heaven knows they make a lot of money on the drugs they sell. But they also spend a lot of money developing new drugs and do research on new medications all the time.
It's "big pharma" that created the amounts of medication necessary to eradicate small pox and almost eradicate polio around the world. It's too easy - and a clear sign of first-world arrogance - to blame big pharma that things go wrong with medications or that they can't cure everything. We're so very lucky to live in the times we do with the medical knowledge we have. We seem to believe that no one should ever die and if someone does, it's western medicine or big pharma's fault. The fault really is that we're biological entities that get sick and fall apart.14 -
There are laws to protect the vulnerable. All of this has been played out in the courts. The issue is "informed consent". A child can't do that of course. So the courts, if forced to, will imagine that a reasonable person would choose health and life over death. So dangerous parenting is not a fundamental freedom.
How these cases are dealt with (if the government catches wind of catastrophic parental failure before it is too late) is to give temporary custody of the child to the state. Complete treatment. The child will be returned when it is deemed that the child is no longer in danger.3 -
I'm tired of hearing about the horrors of "big pharma." Yes, there are pharmaceutical companies that have committed fraudulent acts and heaven knows they make a lot of money on the drugs they sell. But they also spend a lot of money developing new drugs and do research on new medications all the time.
It's "big pharma" that created the amounts of medication necessary to eradicate small pox and almost eradicate polio around the world. It's too easy - and a clear sign of first-world arrogance - to blame big pharma that things go wrong with medications or that they can't cure everything. We're so very lucky to live in the times we do with the medical knowledge we have. We seem to believe that no one should ever die and if someone does, it's western medicine or big pharma's fault. The fault really is that we're biological entities that get sick and fall apart.
It's really funny knowing that "big pharma" owns many of the supplement lines that those who rant against "big pharma" are so keen on.
It's almost like they know how to make money.11 -
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.
Sure, but what's your suggestion? Parent Licences? Neuter people under a certain IQ? Ultimately, there are no laws against being an airhead nutjob. And even if you or I think someone is making bad decisions, the right to religious freedom is enshrined in many democratic countries constitutions.
Have you ever seen the documentary film Idiocracy?5 -
NorthCascades wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.
Sure, but what's your suggestion? Parent Licences? Neuter people under a certain IQ? Ultimately, there are no laws against being an airhead nutjob. And even if you or I think someone is making bad decisions, the right to religious freedom is enshrined in many democratic countries constitutions.
Have you ever seen the documentary film Idiocracy?
The first 10 mins are terrifyingly true.4 -
(I've taken to calling any movie a documentary lately.)6
-
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.
Sure, but what's your suggestion? Parent Licences? Neuter people under a certain IQ? Ultimately, there are no laws against being an airhead nutjob. And even if you or I think someone is making bad decisions, the right to religious freedom is enshrined in many democratic countries constitutions.
If only. Parents have the right to refuse treatment for their children but usually not if it's against the advice of the medical team and if the treatment could save the child's life. That's why parents are often charged when their child dies without medical treatment when the child could have reasonably been saved.0 -
Scientific nutritional studies are notoriously difficult conduct due to many factors (accurate reporting of ingested food, food/cooking variances, sample size of # of participants, lengthy time needed to observe results, cost, etc.), however there are more studies available showing specific effects of foods on your gut biome, hormone balance, mitochondrial health (to name a few).
Triple check your sources and do N=1 evaluations - how do you feel as a result of (<some change>). The human body is amazing at reporting back to you how it likes/dislikes how you are fueling yourself.
Keeping an open mind (enough to learn new concepts) balances well with having skepticism to 'wonder' claims.0 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »Scientific nutritional studies are notoriously difficult conduct due to many factors (accurate reporting of ingested food, food/cooking variances, sample size of # of participants, lengthy time needed to observe results, cost, etc.), however there are more studies available showing specific effects of foods on your gut biome, hormone balance, mitochondrial health (to name a few).
Triple check your sources and do N=1 evaluations - how do you feel as a result of (<some change>). The human body is amazing at reporting back to you how it likes/dislikes how you are fueling yourself.
Keeping an open mind (enough to learn new concepts) balances well with having skepticism to 'wonder' claims.
I'm a confirmed woo skeptic and science geek.
Still, I think it's reasonable to do things that might be good for me, are generally enjoyable, don't cost a bunch, make me feel good at that n=1 level, and can't by any rational standard be injurious.
Not where this thread started, though. It was more about worries from OP about whether and why we might think she was being scammed into becoming a professional woo-peddler, to put a sharp point on it.
An open mind is a good thing. Too open, and it can start to get pretty drafty in there.10 -
finny11122 wrote: »VintageFeline wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »singingflutelady wrote: »finny11122 wrote: »Hollistic approach is great and has helped people for thousands of years .
Modern medicine also has it's place and has helped countless people .
What's wrong is someone jumping down someone's throat because they shared with the world an approach that worked for them . The PC brigrades and the strongly worded letter types are always waiting in the internet shadows ready to pounce on someone .
Do and enjoy what works for you and makes you healthy and happy .
Making up fake diagnoses and therefore curing fake diagnoses isn't "sharing with the world an approach that worked for them".
Do what works for you . And let others do what works for them . It's not a contest . Let people share their experiences .
Sorry that I don't agree with promoting scams. Curing a disease that doesn't exist is doing something that works for you. It's wasting money on things you don't need.
What are you talking about ? Why are you so emotionally invested ?
This thread is about a course that talks about leaky gut syndrome, adrenal fatigue and detoxes amongst other things. The first 2 don't exist and the third is pointless. You came in saying that we shouldn't say anything against it otherwise we are the PC brigade. If I see ridiculous things I will speak out. The reason why I care is I hate seeing vulnerable people being taken advantage of. I have a chronic illness and hear so many crazy things touted as cures (there is no cure for my disease) every day and see people who are so desperate that they spend hundreds on these cures only to find in the best case scenario they don't work and in the worst it makes their symptoms worse.
The op can make her decision . My first comment was towards her . Then you chimed in by respondeding to me . I wish you the best of luck with your health . Different things work for different people . I respect all sides hollistic and modern . I don't have a horse in this race . I don't have a side . I go with what works for me and everyone should go with what works for them .
Well you see, there's a point where "you do you, no harm in people offering these services" is that there could be actual harm. We've all seen cases of parents choosing not to have traditional cancer treatments for their very sick children or themselves as one example. That's a real problem. As an adult have at it but for a child? That's not okay and the practitioners encouraging it are morally corrupt.
Also, you're in a debate forum, don't expect to drop an opinion, one that is challenging the opinions of others and not expect come back.
I know it's a debate and i don't have a side . I made that clear in my orginal comment to the OP .
And parents have their own mind and beliefs . The decisions they make are none of my buisness. . The choices they make in life for their kids are up to them and they have to live with the consequences if something goes wrong .
I disagree with you. Children aren't possessions that parents can try out their ridiculous beliefs on. Too many children have died because parents buy into bullsh*t holistic treatments rather than getting tested, approved treatments that could save their lives. There was a child in my province who died a couple of years ago from meningitis. His parents were treating him with herbal crap even though they were told by a friend who was a nurse that he needed to doctor and a hospital. Parents shouldn't be allowed to make decisions like that. They are living with the consequences - in jail. But the child is still dead. He can't live with the consequences.
Sure, but what's your suggestion? Parent Licences? Neuter people under a certain IQ? Ultimately, there are no laws against being an airhead nutjob. And even if you or I think someone is making bad decisions, the right to religious freedom is enshrined in many democratic countries constitutions.
I mean this is where things start to get really grey right. I agree children are too young to make decisions for themselves (in legal terms they cannot consent). I agree that parents are their rightful guardians who are the ones we look to to make decisions on behalf of their children. I also, however, agree that doesn't mean that parents "own" their children in the same way they own their couch. A parent could take their couch outside and leave it out there to rot and no one would care. If they banished their child to live outside then yeah, people would care and CPS would get involved and they would probably lose custody. I think that is a good thing. I think parents are responsible for caring for their children but I think that society itself is also responsible for caring for children. When society has a justifiable reason to suspect parents are unfit to be judging what is good for a child I think it is right for that society to remove that child from their custody. The difficulty comes in defining what is "justifiable". Whatever the justification is it should be as transparent and black and white and objective as it can possibly be. Unfortunately I think the "dangers" of many holistic treatments are a lot more grey.4 -
PrimalForLife wrote: »Scientific nutritional studies are notoriously difficult conduct due to many factors (accurate reporting of ingested food, food/cooking variances, sample size of # of participants, lengthy time needed to observe results, cost, etc.), however there are more studies available showing specific effects of foods on your gut biome, hormone balance, mitochondrial health (to name a few).
Triple check your sources and do N=1 evaluations - how do you feel as a result of (<some change>). The human body is amazing at reporting back to you how it likes/dislikes how you are fueling yourself.
Keeping an open mind (enough to learn new concepts) balances well with having skepticism to 'wonder' claims.
I'm a confirmed woo skeptic and science geek.
Still, I think it's reasonable to do things that might be good for me, are generally enjoyable, don't cost a bunch, make me feel good at that n=1 level, and can't by any rational standard be injurious.
Not where this thread started, though. It was more about worries from OP about whether and why we might think she was being scammed into becoming a professional woo-peddler, to put a sharp point on it.
An open mind is a good thing. Too open, and it can start to get pretty drafty in there.
Hah reminds me of another Tim Minchin quote "Don't open your mind too much or your brain will fall out"5 -
Keep in mind that custody to the state can be temporary. This is done often say, for children of Jehovah Witness parents who have a religious objection against blood. The child can be temporarily placed in the care of the state, the transfusions administered, and then the child is returned back in to the care of the parents.
An adult who wishes to refuse transfusions however, can be respected right up to death. Freedom respected.
I also reserve my right of free speech to protest unreasonable abstentions which may lead to ill health. Take the hypothetical situation where a new dieter fresh from google diet research decides to go low carb, vegan, non-dairy, low fat all at once. And for some reason is finding it hard to find enough calories to live.3 -
Aaron_K123 wrote: »PrimalForLife wrote: »Scientific nutritional studies are notoriously difficult conduct due to many factors (accurate reporting of ingested food, food/cooking variances, sample size of # of participants, lengthy time needed to observe results, cost, etc.), however there are more studies available showing specific effects of foods on your gut biome, hormone balance, mitochondrial health (to name a few).
Triple check your sources and do N=1 evaluations - how do you feel as a result of (<some change>). The human body is amazing at reporting back to you how it likes/dislikes how you are fueling yourself.
Keeping an open mind (enough to learn new concepts) balances well with having skepticism to 'wonder' claims.
I'm a confirmed woo skeptic and science geek.
Still, I think it's reasonable to do things that might be good for me, are generally enjoyable, don't cost a bunch, make me feel good at that n=1 level, and can't by any rational standard be injurious.
Not where this thread started, though. It was more about worries from OP about whether and why we might think she was being scammed into becoming a professional woo-peddler, to put a sharp point on it.
An open mind is a good thing. Too open, and it can start to get pretty drafty in there.
Hah reminds me of another Tim Minchin quote "Don't open your mind too much or your brain will fall out"
7
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.4K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.7K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 390 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Information
- 22 News and Announcements
- 921 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions